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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Viett on Mon, 01 June 2009, 15:08:32

Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Viett on Mon, 01 June 2009, 15:08:32
Reading this article (http://lifehacker.com/5274189/numlocker-disables-the-caps-lock-key) and other discussions about the Caps Lock key, I can't help but come to the conclusion that many, if not most people, find the Caps Lock key completely unnecessary.

Personally, I don't see why that is. I agree it's in convenient place that could be used for other keys, but I am very much opposed to doing away with it completely.

Some people foolishly make the argument that doing away with the Caps Lock key might prevent idiots form typing in all caps. But really, do they think this is the only application for the key?

(http://maddox.xmission.com/keyboard4.jpg)

I use the Caps Lock key for just about any acronym with more than two capital letters. There are countless acronyms (http://www.techterms.com/acronyms.php) in today's computer age... It's also extremely useful for programming constants. Any true touch typist should not be forced to alternate between both shifts for acronyms that require both hands.

Why all the opposition? Why does Colemak (http://colemak.com/FAQ#Where_is_the_Caps_Lock_key.3F)'s standard layout not include a Caps Lock? And why an entire program (http://www.mystercrowley.com/sw_numlocker_en.php) to do away with it?
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: o2dazone on Mon, 01 June 2009, 15:16:23
Linux layout puts Control where Caps Lock is on the keyboard. I swapped Caps Lock with Control before I got an HHKB, and it made so much more sense. It was more comfortable, practical, and I never accidentally hit it. There's a lot of RAGE about people typing in caps, I never found my eyes straining to read them, although I've heard that typing in caps makes you read slower.

Addressing your question, I could not do away with a function entirely on a keyboard. I guess it all boils down to "Do you use it?". A lot of heat stems from a function issue, such as disabling Windows keys to prevent a full screen game from getting minimized, or having a keyboard without a numpad so you can hold your mouse closer to your keyboard. Honestly if you didn't switch Caps Lock with Control, then I don't really see the point of disabling it, unless you like the inside joke of hating caps lock "Ha Ha! Take that caps lock...I'll never use YOU aga...damnit, I just hit caps to type that", or maybe it's to spite the Caps Lock gods. Or if you accidentally hit it THAT often, that you have to disable it.

Even the minimalist HHKB has an option to turn it on.


edit: Personally speaking, I only use my right pinky when I'm uppercasing letters. The left shift gets it's use from shortcuts in applications, otherwise it just doesn't get used. EVEN WHEN I TYPE THIS I just hold the shift key down and type it out. I guess my right pinky just doesn't get used enough, and can afford to be pinned down when I need to type something in all caps
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 01 June 2009, 15:17:14
I use Caps Lock quite often.  I write a lot of SQL, and out of tradition, habit, etc., I write SQL in mainly all caps.  When typing normally, I don't find that it gets in the way, or that it would even be better served by being another function.  UNIX folks might disagree, and other keyboards (Topres, specifically) give you ways to remap the key, but overall I don't mind it.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Viett on Mon, 01 June 2009, 15:31:27
Quote
Even the minimalist HHKB has an option to turn it on.


I definitely appreciate that the HHKB has the Caps available, and that the Topre allows the user to physically swap the Control and Caps, but there is no excuse when it comes to Colemak's layout. The default Colemak layout for Windows and Linux/Unix (Maybe Mac's too, I've never tested it) has no Caps Lock option.

Also, doing some additional reading in Colemak's forums, I stumbled upon this (http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=1842#p1842):

Quote
1) No Caps Lock at all:
- People without patience or being too skeptical may stop exploring on Colemak only because of this if they did not come across all the Colemak pros yet.
+ Weakens the usage of upper case.


It's tiring... enough of a reason to stop using Colemak altogether.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: JBert on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:05:54
Again, I love "Portable Keyboard Layout" for its Colemak layout; it stuffs Caps Lock under Shift+Caps Lock and even the possibility of AltGr+Caps Lock.

Why the official layout doesn't offer some caps functionality is beyond my grasp. Maybe we should try to fix it one day and present it as ColeMAK on their forums. I'm pretty sure it can be done on Linux.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:14:20
Must be a holdover from gaming but I use the left shift every time I need a capital and almost never use the right one (I never use it for letters).  Caps lock was one of those dreaded keys (like win key) that pissed you off as well lol, hit caps lock and some stupid function would be enabled.  I don't really care if it's on the keyboard or not, stick it over next to scroll lock or insert or something.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:25:08
I swap the caps lock with the cntrl key. It just makes more sense as I use the ctrl key way more then I ever use caps lock. In fact, I never use caps lock. But thats me.
I also swap the escape and tilde key too.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: IBI on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:33:15
Well colemak hasn't even bothered to offer an official UK layout or provide information on how their new layout actually installs so i wouldn't put too much weight on their decisions - it seems still experimental at the moment.

I never use it myself, most acronyms at the moment are only three or four letters - it's rare that you come across a UNIVAC any more, and these days it appears that TANSTAAFL isn't always true.

Certainly, part of the reason it's annoying is because some keyboards come with stupidly bright LEDs and while scroll lock is rarely needed and numlock is well out of the way, caps lock can be accidentally hit and cause you to be blinded. Another reason is that some games don't like binding it and won't properly surpress the signals so if you use it for anything you end up typing half of your messages lIKE THIS.

I think people just get annoyed at a badly placed key - if you were going to remove anything then scroll lock would be a good first choice, but because it's out of the way then nobody gives it a second thought.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:45:29
is there an anti-capslock movement? There should be. That useless key takes up some really prime real estate on the keyboard.

naturally I swapped it with control. But even then the two-level key (how bizarre!) sucks (have to reach further over with the pinky because of the dumb two-levels) so I covered the key with some crayola putty to make it single level.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:49:04
Quote from: wellington1869;93777
is there an anti-capslock movement? There should be. That useless key takes up some really prime real estate on the keyboard.
 
naturally I swapped it with control. But even then the two-level key (how bizarre!) sucks (have to reach further over with the pinky because of the dumb two-levels) so I covered the key with some crayola putty to make it single level.

D*mn, you're a little hostile to the Caps Lock key. :)  I find it very useful myself.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:49:45
Quote from: itlnstln;93779
D*mn, you're a little hostile to the Caps Lock key. :)  I find it very useful myself.


lol, do you actually use it to lock caps?

Update: just saw your post above ;)

You're definitely in a dying breed that actually locks caps and types in caps, lol.

Besides, there must be easier ways to do that than to take up a whole key in such a prime location. At the very least I'd be for moving it to some less used corner of the board. They should just change the standard board's specs to swap it permanently with control.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 01 June 2009, 16:51:20
Quote from: bigpook;93774

I also swap the escape and tilde key too.


thats actually a great idea.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Stiggy on Mon, 01 June 2009, 17:02:24
I hardly use caps lock, tending to just hold down shift. I rarely press it by mistake either though.

As for its location - it belongs to the left of the 'A' with a small gap - just as it (well technically the 'shift-lock') was on the Imperial Model 50 I used to play with as a kid.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 01 June 2009, 17:37:07
every time i hit caps lock on this rubber-dome apple board, the led turns on and kills the usb connection. f****n' caps lock!
:)
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 01 June 2009, 17:49:12
Quote from: wellington1869;93781
thats actually a great idea.


I use the escape key more then the tilde key so it makes sense for me to swap them.
I am ok remapping the keys but I wish I could swap the actual caps lock and cntrl key.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: megarat on Mon, 01 June 2009, 18:39:13
I don't understand the nature of this argument, as i use the caps-lock key all the time.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: FunkTrooper on Mon, 01 June 2009, 18:58:41
Quote from: IBI;93775
Well colemak hasn't even bothered to offer an official UK layout or provide information on how their new layout actually installs so i wouldn't put too much weight on their decisions - it seems still experimental at the moment.


I made a UK version of Colemak for Windows here (http://danieljacobs.googlepages.com/Colemak-UK.zip).  A UK version is included with new versions of X11 (the new Ubuntu 9.04 has it).

As for “how” Colemak installs, it's the same as any other Windows keyboard layout would install — it just gets added the keyboard layouts in Windows, and then you can select it from Regional and Language options (no, not Keyboard Settings).
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Manyak on Mon, 01 June 2009, 19:03:12
Quote from: itlnstln;93758
I use Caps Lock quite often.  I write a lot of SQL, and out of tradition, habit, etc., I write SQL in mainly all caps.  When typing normally, I don't find that it gets in the way, or that it would even be better served by being another function.  UNIX folks might disagree, and other keyboards (Topres, specifically) give you ways to remap the key, but overall I don't mind it.


This.

It's useless for normal typing, but great for programming. SQL is one example. I also use it a lot in PHP, C++ (with MFC), and when writing shell scripts.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: o2dazone on Mon, 01 June 2009, 19:46:59
Quote from: webwit;93785
You people with your antique keyboards and layout ***** fights... :popcorn:


webwit and his datahands

(http://www.eatsleepgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/powerglove.jpg)
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Viett on Mon, 01 June 2009, 19:54:11
Quote
I hardly use caps lock, tending to just hold down shift. I rarely press it by mistake either though.


The problem with this is hitting capital letters like A, Z, and Q. Because your left pinky is on the shift, you have to use your ring finger, and this throws you off home row completely. It's very uncomfortable.

Quote
Again, I love "Portable Keyboard Layout" for its Colemak layout


Me too. Problem is that the AltGr and Shift + Caps combos are not available for the native Windows and Linux versions of the layout.

The ~ to Esc concept is a good one too. Thing is, I'd really like there to be decent standards for an alternative layout. It'd be great to select a layout upon installing an OS, like Linux with Colemak, and not get the BS of not having a Caps Lock key. I could always make my own layout, but it would be a burden to have to be running my own personal executable or script at whichever computer I use.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Specter_57 on Mon, 01 June 2009, 20:17:28
I've done a simple remap of the CapsLock key in the registry.

The CapsLock key is now a secondary (ie left-side) Enter Key...and the CapsLock key function has taken over the Windows Menu key, just beside the right-Ctrl key....and also set it up so that the CapsLock key is released by hitting any Shift Key.

Works for me.

...

What I would like to have as well, as found in the French AZERTY layout is to have a SHIFT-Lock key, as opposed to the CAPS-Lock key....ideally enabled by hitting the CapsLock Key + Shift Key together...so that it is one or the other.

So far no joy in figuring out how to implement it

Oh well.....
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 01 June 2009, 20:49:47
Quote from: ripster;93803
Thank the  typewriter for your caps lock ills.  On manual typewriters it actually lifts the carriage so you are typing the top characters on the type arms.


Hence the proper name: Shift Lock. It worked on all the number and punctuation keys too. I was quite annoyed that Caps Lock on PCs failed to perform this basic task.

If we must tolerate this abomination of a key, couldn't it at least do the job properly? All or nothing I say!!!:rant:
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 01 June 2009, 21:01:24
Quote from: o2dazone;93799
webwit and his datahands

Show Image
(http://www.eatsleepgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/powerglove.jpg)


Webwit finds your lack of faith disturbing...
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 01 June 2009, 21:06:25
Quote from: ripster;93803
Thank the  typewriter for your caps lock ills.  On manual typewriters it actually lifts the carriage so you are typing the top characters on the type arms.

Also -  notice the distinctive look of the key:

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2526&stc=1&d=1243479912)


The IBM engineers could have changed this with the first computer keyboards but didn't.

The original IBM pc keyboards did have the ctrl key in the proper place.  They moved it back because most of their customers were secretaries who amazingly enough used typewriters beforeh the PCs and didn't want to change.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 02 June 2009, 01:37:43
I note Commodore's small computers (at least the VIC 20 and 64) used a physical shift-lock key.  It would actually lock down.

I'd sort of like to see some PC keyboards like that, the physically locking key.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 02 June 2009, 01:57:09
I find the CapsLock key works best when remapped. I don't even use it all that often on my Royal. Until I started playing with manuals, I had no idea the punctuation keys got locked as well. I thought that was funny, since that killed the one thing I would have used the key for and that is master scene headings.

One other stupid thing about typewriters — why is the apostrophe (OMG I spelled it right on the first try!) shift+8? DUMB.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: IBI on Tue, 02 June 2009, 09:47:30
Quote from: FunkTrooper;93795
I made a UK version of Colemak for Windows here (http://danieljacobs.googlepages.com/Colemak-UK.zip).  A UK version is included with new versions of X11 (the new Ubuntu 9.04 has it).

As for “how” Colemak installs, it's the same as any other Windows keyboard layout would install — it just gets added the keyboard layouts in Windows, and then you can select it from Regional and Language options (no, not Keyboard Settings).


Thanks for the information.

Quote from: Viett;93801
The problem with this is hitting capital letters like A, Z, and Q. Because your left pinky is on the shift, you have to use your ring finger, and this throws you off home row completely. It's very uncomfortable.


This doesn't seem to be too much of a problem to me. You're in North America aren't you? I wonder if this is down to the odd left shift key on the ANSI layout, have you ever gotton used to an ISO layout keyboard and did that suffer as much from this problem?

Quote from: Hak Foo;93842
I note Commodore's small computers (at least the VIC 20 and 64) used a physical shift-lock key.  It would actually lock down.

I'd sort of like to see some PC keyboards like that, the physically locking key.


The Apple Extended Keyboard apparently does this as well so you could always get one of those and an iMate.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Viett on Tue, 02 June 2009, 12:50:48
Quote
This doesn't seem to be too much of a problem to me. You're in North America aren't you? I wonder if this is down to the odd left shift key on the ANSI layout, have you ever gotton used to an ISO layout keyboard and did that suffer as much from this problem?


I don't see how adding an extra key would make it any easier. Either way your pinky is still occupied. The point is that you should be able to use the right shift with your left pinky for these letters, but with acronyms, you'd have to alternate shifts, which is incredibly tedious. This is where the Caps Lock comes in.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 02 June 2009, 14:58:38
Its not like saying get rid of the caps lock key entirely, its that the default location for it is less then ideal. moving it down to the lower left side where cntrl usually sits is a much better place for it. just saying.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: keyb_gr on Wed, 03 June 2009, 05:30:58
The Caps Lock key has gotten a lot more useful for me ever since I started remapping it. While I couldn't really get used to it as Ctrl (i.e. still didn't use it much), it's been serving brilliantly as a secondary backspace. (I mostly use it for going back in the browser, or forward with Shift-Backspace.) That position really deserves to be used for a commonly used function - which Caps Lock never was for me.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 03 June 2009, 17:42:59
Quote from: keyb_gr;94037
I mostly use it for going back in the browser, or forward with Shift-Backspace.


Do'h! I remapped my CS key as BS but never thought of using it that way! Thanks.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 03 June 2009, 19:18:26
Ubuntu (and any other GNOME-based Linux/UNIX system) allows you to swap CTRL and Caps lock quite easily, or even just replace Caps with a third control. I kind of like it being in the "proper" place on my Model F, but for gaming, I prefer a board with it in it's proper location.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 03 June 2009, 20:02:12
Quote from: ripster;94099
CTL-SHF-T is my favorite.

Wow. I thought you needed the "Undo Closed Tabs Button" add-on to do that. It's amazing how often I use the feature.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Viett on Thu, 04 June 2009, 12:40:44
Here's a follow up article (http://lifehacker.com/5277383/use-caps-lock-for-hand+friendly-text-navigation) for the Caps Lock key on Lifehacker. It's  a Fuction Lock sort of concept. I like the idea, however, his key bindings aren't the best. I would have remapped the standard WASD gaming cluster to the arrows, which would be great for left-handed only web browsing. Alt + arrows are Back/Forward in most browsers, control + arrows for moving word to word in text, and regular arrow movement for scrolling. Of course, I'd then move the actual Caps Lock somewhere else ;).
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Hyperion on Sat, 06 June 2009, 08:23:09
I use the capslock key as a backspace while the left windows I use as a capslock. Saves from accidentally dying in games and gives a much better position for the backspace key.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: keyb_gr on Sat, 06 June 2009, 13:17:33
Quote from: ripster;94424
Also, if you want ALL the gory details of the various evolution of the PC keyboard layouts see this (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/kyb03.htm).

Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 06 June 2009, 16:17:23
I've seen that site before, I really wonder what he was smoking when he came up with this. (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/keyult62.gif)
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Specter_57 on Sat, 06 June 2009, 17:21:49
Those keyboard colour combinations used to illustrate what is being discussed might be interesting as a basis for some real life keyboard colour layouts.

Stumbled across that page shortly after I found this site via the RIT dye thread, and have thought about it off and on ever since.

Spec57
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Specter_57 on Sat, 06 June 2009, 17:43:03
That keyboard in the pic is hideous! ewwww....and if you like that video editing board..ha!! ...maybe you'll like this one too.... http://www.thinkgeek.com/geek-kids/3-7-years/b9a8/zoom/


------

The few colored keycap boards you can find seem to coloured for the sake of being coloured, more a gimmick then anything useful....and gimmick priced to match....and no better than those crappy black or beige $5.00 keyboards that seem to be the norm nowadays.

If I ever do get around to doing a 'colour hack'..I'd want to do it so as to be logical and make some sense in the groupings vs colouring....as is seen on that keyboard discussion page.

Spec57
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: D-EJ915 on Sat, 06 June 2009, 20:00:15
Quote from: ripster;94531
Just don't take it to the extreme.

Show Image
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/2572492749_b6c2300127.jpg?v=0)


The video  editing boards (http://www.editorskeyboard.com/en/final_cut.html) always looked interesting to me.
those stickers are the cutest things ever <3
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Viett on Sat, 06 June 2009, 20:11:53
I like the AHK script. I don't particularly like the HHKB's layout, but it's a step in the right direction. The only thing holding me back from making my own crazy layout is the fact that I believe there should be some level of standards when it comes to key layouts.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 07 June 2009, 19:39:48
CapsLock is the work of the devil. If a workplace forces me to use a membrane keyboard above my overt objections, the first thing I do is rip off the CapsLock with abandon. I haven't committed vandalism in front of anyone yet, but some days I'm tempted to.

That said, I do use CapsLock often enough in professional technical writing that I don't disable it electronically. Removing the keycap such that I have to activate CapsLock with malice aforethought is sufficient to keep the beast at bay.

My personal keyboards tend to have the key removed with care and stored in a top drawer. My Kinesis, an odd-man out, keeps the CapsLock key because I've NEVER struck it by mistake.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Xuan on Sun, 21 June 2009, 18:12:31
I HATE CAPS LOCK IT'S THE WORST KEY EVER!!!

edit: Now it looks better.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 21 June 2009, 18:29:07
If I were designing a layout, I'd move Caps lock to Scroll lock, and make scroll lock Alt+Caps. Probably put either Control or Backspace in its place.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 28 June 2009, 11:18:00
...and from USA Today article "Who moved my 'Delete' key? Lenovo did. Here's why.":

"The new keyboard isn't perfect. [Lenovo executive] Hill called "Caps Lock" a frustrating hangover from typewriter days, a key that can introduce garble, emulate shouting or foil password entries without the user noticing.

"I think maybe sometime in the future, we should maybe entertain removing it," he said. "It's one of those things you kind of have to approach with caution. There might be some people out there who just really like their 'Caps Lock' key for whatever reason.""

:)

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2009-06-26-delete-key_N.htm
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 28 June 2009, 11:47:50
I hate Caps lock...I'd rather just not have a key there...because...what do you use it for? I use shift...and only shift. I find it easier to just hold down shift as long as I need to type something in capital letters and then let go, than to toggle Caps Lock, and then remember to untoggle it.

At least on the Model M they had the sense to make sure the Caps Lock key didn't extend full-height to the "a" key.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 28 June 2009, 13:55:07
I hate the way they're taking it out on Insert a lot lately.  Some keyboards, they give you double-height delete, and move insert somewhere-- where I'm never sure-- perhaps it's gone entirely.

I long ago learned shift-insert for paste, and find it very frustrating to change.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 28 June 2009, 14:20:31
Paste is CTRL-V for me, I think Shift-Insert is some kind of Windows thing. And I used to have a problem where I'd somehow manage to hit Insert every now and again causing all sorts of problems. They really should have some kind of "Insert Lock" light on keyboards :P

As for Lenovo and the extra large escape... Come on guys, you know where it really belongs...
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Viett on Sun, 28 June 2009, 15:23:20
Quote from: timw4mail
I hate Caps lock...I'd rather just not have a key there...because...what do you use it for?


Quote from: Viett
I use the Caps Lock key for just about any acronym with more than two capital letters. There are countless acronyms in today's computer age... It's also extremely useful for programming constants. Any true touch typist should not be forced to alternate between both shifts for acronyms that require both hands.


I agree, it's not the most important key, and perhaps a better key can go in its place, but it definitely needs to be somewhere, because there are some of us that depend on it.

Quote from: ripster
i hate comic sans it's the worst font ever!!!


Agreed.

Quote from: Hak Foo
I long ago learned shift-insert for paste, and find it very frustrating to change.


Same here. I used it when I started typing Dvorak. It's nice to have a paste shortcut that always works, because I change between layouts frequently (gaming/every day typing).
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Sun, 28 June 2009, 16:17:55
Quote from: ripster;99803
I have it mapped to Fn-Tab like the HHKB - works great and easy to remember (Ctrl-tab on a normal keyboard using my AutoHotkey script).  You're not going to hit that accidentally.

It occurs to me that if the Caps Lock key is removed, then the functionality will be removed from the OS and eventually it will require far more work than simply creating a macro to map Ctrl-Tab to Caps Lock. I think it is a key with a purpose, but that it owns far move valuable real estate than it rates. I could see pushing the Backspace key over there and putting twoadditional alphanumeric keys where the Backspace is (Like: whatever happened to the cents sign, or that bent line doohickey that lives over the '6' on a terminal keyboard?).
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: D-EJ915 on Sun, 28 June 2009, 16:20:01
comic sans isn't as bad as unnecessary sarcastic posts ;)

I like how the Japanese 109 has the caps lock key, as a shifted key, works great!  It's more like the original shift-lock that way as well.  Those of you suffering from wimpy pinky can still use it and those of us who prefer useful keys can have something else in its place (most likely control or backspace).

I wish more of the accessory keys had shifted functions as well.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 28 June 2009, 16:56:59
Quote from: Shawn Stanford;99807
or that bent line doohickey that lives over the '6' on a terminal keyboard?).


You mean ¬ (Logical 'Not' operation)? It's still here on ISO keyboards (Shift+number beside one). However, unless you do a lot of mathematical writing, or you have some program that needs it, there's probably much more useful things that could take it's place.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Sun, 28 June 2009, 17:09:36
Quote from: ch_123;99815
You mean ¬ (Logical 'Not' operation)? It's still here on ISO keyboards (Shift+number beside one). However, unless you do a lot of mathematical writing, or you have some program that needs it, there's probably much more useful things that could take it's place.

I didn't say wanting them was reasonable, I just miss them, is all.  :D
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 29 June 2009, 01:40:14
Quote from: msiegel;99763
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2009-06-26-delete-key_N.htm


"On average, they used the "Escape" and "Delete" keys 700 times per week"

What software (and OS) were these people running?

I can't remember the last time Esc did anything useful for me. It's not like it ever escapes you out of anything nowadays. (Just like Scroll Lock rarely stops scrolling, Break rarely stops anything, Ins messes you up worse than Caps Lock,etc.)

And there is nothing Del can do that Backspace can't achieve just as easily.

I doubt that average PC users press the Esc key 700 times a week, if at all.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Mon, 29 June 2009, 07:29:39
Quote from: Rajagra;99865
And there is nothing Del can do that Backspace can't achieve just as easily.

That depends very much on how your data entry fields are structured and what your keys do. On a terminal, the 'End' key erases all input to the end of the unprotected field, and there are no 'quick jump' keys except 'Tab' and 'Return'. So, if you wanted to delete characters from the beginning of a field or line, there is no easy way to jump halfway down and start backspacing (assuming you have a destructive backspace, not all terminals do).
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 29 June 2009, 22:41:52
The escape key is useful to back out of (e.g. cancel) Windows save and load dialog boxes without using the mouse. I also use it a lot in a game called Second Life to back out of all dialogues without closing them or using the mouse.

The Caps Lock key. meh. Wait, there was a book ... here it is. John Sandford's "Prey" series of cop fiction has a detective named Del Capslock. I swing wildly between contempt and humor.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 29 June 2009, 23:02:25
Esc also tends to stop browsers.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Xuan on Tue, 30 June 2009, 22:56:06
Quote from: Rajagra;99865

And there is nothing Del can do that Backspace can't achieve just as easily.

In most text editors Ctrl+Del deletes from the caret's position to the end of the word (dw in vim), try it it's really useful.
To do the same with Backspace, Shift+End and then Backspace, it's not as good.

Quote from: Rajagra;99865
I doubt that average PC users press the Esc key 700 times a week, if at all.


I use vim as my text editor, I think 100 times a day is not a big number.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: shrap on Wed, 01 July 2009, 01:13:26
I think the only thing this thread shows is that generalizations about key usage are usually incorrect. For every key that you never use and think it should be removed/moved somewhere inconvenient, there's going to be someone who can't live without it.

Step one for any "power" computer user should be to learn how to remap keys via AutoHotKey or the equivalent.

Myself, my usage is way out there. I use backquote "`" as a focus-control key - helps cut down on those times where you need to move the mouse to click on a specific window pane or area. I probably press it a hundred times a day. I use Windows-L, -E, and -M continually. And I have to use the hated Insert key to send Ctrl-Alt-Delete keypresses to my Virtual Machines.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Manyak on Wed, 01 July 2009, 02:15:34
If it weren't for the fact that I still have a ton of old DOS games I'd say the only completely useless key on a keyboard is Pause/Break.

Then again, the SysReq command also hasn't been used for anything since the IBM S370 Terminals.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: keyb_gr on Wed, 01 July 2009, 03:36:49
Quote from: Manyak;100394
Then again, the SysReq command also hasn't been used for anything since the IBM S370 Terminals.

I wouldn't call this 'nothing'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_request) (Although admittedly it's not overwhelmingly popular either.)
Title: Re: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: bsvP585hUO2Y6 on Wed, 01 July 2009, 04:21:23
Manyak writes:

> Then again, the SysReq command also hasn't been used for anything
> since the IBM S370 Terminals.

Well, Linux has support for it, and I'm making occasional use of it.
It's quite convenient when a process is eating up all memory and the
userland becomes unresponsive.  SysRq- still works nicely
in this situation since it traps directly into the Kernel.

,----[ Documentation/sysrq.txt.gz ]
| *  What is the magic SysRq key?
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| It is a 'magical' key combo you can hit which the kernel will respond
| to regardless of whatever else it is doing, unless it is completely
| locked up.
| [...]
| *  What are the 'command' keys?
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| 'r'     - Turns off keyboard raw mode and sets it to XLATE.
|
| 'k'     - Secure Access Key (SAK) Kills all programs on the current virtual
|           console. NOTE: See important comments below in SAK section.
|
| 'b'     - Will immediately reboot the system without syncing or unmounting
|           your disks.
|
| 'c'   - Will perform a kexec reboot in order to take a crashdump.
|
| 'o'     - Will shut your system off (if configured and supported).
|
| 's'     - Will attempt to sync all mounted filesystems.
|
| 'u'     - Will attempt to remount all mounted filesystems read-only.
|
| 'p'     - Will dump the current registers and flags to your console.
|
| 't'     - Will dump a list of current tasks and their information to your
|           console.
|
| 'm'     - Will dump current memory info to your console.
|
| 'v'   - Dumps Voyager SMP processor info to your console.
|
| '0'-'9' - Sets the console log level, controlling which kernel messages
|           will be printed to your console. ('0', for example would make
|           it so that only emergency messages like PANICs or OOPSes would
|           make it to your console.)
|
| 'f'   - Will call oom_kill to kill a memory hog process
|
| 'e'     - Send a SIGTERM to all processes, except for init.
|
| 'i'     - Send a SIGKILL to all processes, except for init.
|
| 'l'     - Send a SIGKILL to all processes, INCLUDING init. (Your system
|           will be non-functional after this.)
|
| 'h'     - Will display help ( actually any other key than those listed
|           above will display help. but 'h' is easy to remember :-)
|
`----
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 01 July 2009, 04:40:56
Yeah, I've used some of those SysRQ commands myself, but I don't think they are enable by default in most distributions, maybe something to do with the fact that someone can restart or power off your computer with the press of three buttons...
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 01 July 2009, 05:47:44
Quote from: ch_123;100400
Yeah, I've used some of those SysRQ commands myself, but I don't think they are enable by default in most distributions, maybe something to do with the fact that someone can restart or power off your computer with the press of three buttons...


Hold: Control - Alt - Sysreq

Hit: R - E - I - S - U - B

Hard software reboot.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: harrigan on Wed, 01 July 2009, 17:47:06
Quote from: bigpook;93774
I also swap the escape and tilde key too.


I use Escape and tilde quite frequently so I swapped these keys too but I map Shift-Escape to the tilde character.  I map Shift-grave to Compose since I need it every once in a while.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: IBI on Wed, 01 July 2009, 19:40:35
Quote from: ch_123;99815
You mean ¬ (Logical 'Not' operation)? It's still here on ISO keyboards (Shift+number beside one). However, unless you do a lot of mathematical writing, or you have some program that needs it, there's probably much more useful things that could take it's place.


I tend to use ! are not but it's a shame we haven't got the rest of the characters, ∀ and ∃ would be dead useful and I could see the internet repurposing them in no time.

Quote from: Rajagra;99865
"On average, they used the "Escape" and "Delete" keys 700 times per week"

I can't remember the last time Esc did anything useful for me. It's not like it ever escapes you out of anything nowadays.


Escape is an all purpose cancel and I use it a lot, I generally have to hit it four or five times every time I start a game to skip the stupid intro logos and as others have said it gets rid of dialogue boxes, unhooks tools and generally acts as an all-purpose cancel.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: IBI on Wed, 01 July 2009, 20:07:44
Quote from: ripster;100584
I forgot about ESC and games.   I wonder if the new Supreme Commander will get me back into PC gaming.


It's back in the hands of Chris Taylor so it should be better than the travesty that was Forged Alliance.

And if Paradox can add the polish while maintaining the gameplay Hearts of Iron III looks like it's going to be excellent as well. Hearts of Iron II was the sort of game where invading russia was actually as difficult as it was supposed to be, rather than being just another province (*coughtotalwarcough*). Being able to do it at more than 1024x768 will be excellent.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: msiegel on Thu, 02 July 2009, 11:31:26
:D cyberculture strikes again

http://digg.com/mods/Caps_Lock_Has_A_New_Name
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 06 September 2009, 00:52:56
i just remapped caps lock to be control, and now i have no caps lock

i like it this way :D

http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/082009/caps_lock_problem.jpg
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 06 September 2009, 14:36:35
I remap it as Backspace, and when I plug in my HHKBlite I really miss the CL key!!!!
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: quadibloc on Sun, 06 September 2009, 15:47:38
I finally decided to get around to using Microsoft's Keyboard Layout Creator to set up a custom keyboard layout that lets me use the right Alt key to type additional characters.

To have even more choices, I used a feature called "Swiss German Capitals" so that when Caps Lock is on, instead of getting lowercase characters when I shift the letters, I get additional special characters.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 06 September 2009, 15:48:22
Quote from: quadibloc;115354
I finally decided to get around to using Microsoft's Keyboard Layout Creator to set up a custom keyboard layout that lets me use the right Alt key to type additional characters.

To have even more choices, I used a feature called "Swiss German Capitals" so that when Caps Lock is on, instead of getting lowercase characters when I shift the letters, I get additional special characters.

That just sounds too complicated.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 06 September 2009, 16:40:25
Quote from: quadibloc;115354
I finally decided to get around to using Microsoft's Keyboard Layout Creator to set up a custom keyboard layout that lets me use the right Alt key to type additional characters.

To have even more choices, I used a feature called "Swiss German Capitals" so that when Caps Lock is on, instead of getting lowercase characters when I shift the letters, I get additional special characters.


we're changing your username to Unicode XD
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: spremino on Sun, 06 September 2009, 17:17:35
Caps Lock is useful, I agreee. It's just misplaced. There are other keys more useful to have in such comfortable position (Esc, Backspace, Shift (for European layout, ecc).
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: quadibloc on Mon, 07 September 2009, 09:24:10
Quote from: ch_123;94524
I've seen that site before, I really wonder what he was smoking when he came up with this. (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/keyult62.gif)


Hey, I wasn't even on drugs when I came up with this (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/enhpc.gif)!

Of course, I know it's hard to believe.

One multi-function keyboard layout that tries to combine all the functions of:

The normal 104/105-key PC keyboard
The 122-key terminal emulation keyboard
The Sun keyboard (notice the HELP key on the left)
An APL keyboard (APL symbols are on the right half of the keys)
A LISP keyboard of the Space Cadet variety (Meta, Super, and Hyper... and the symbols on the left half of the keys, even unshifted (. ). and :)

One keyboard to bind them, one keyboard on which to find them all, one keyboard to rule them all...
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 07 September 2009, 10:54:32
Quote from: quadibloc;115482
Hey, I wasn't even on drugs when I came up with this (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/enhpc.gif)!

Of course, I know it's hard to believe.

One multi-function keyboard layout that tries to combine all the functions of:

The normal 104/105-key PC keyboard
The 122-key terminal emulation keyboard
The Sun keyboard (notice the HELP key on the left)
An APL keyboard (APL symbols are on the right half of the keys)
A LISP keyboard of the Space Cadet variety (Meta, Super, and Hyper... and the symbols on the left half of the keys, even unshifted (. ). and :)

One keyboard to bind them, one keyboard on which to find them all, one keyboard to rule them all...

And one keyboard to confuse them all.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: spremino on Mon, 07 September 2009, 13:33:06
Caps Lock bashing sites:

http://anticapslock.com/
http://capsoff.org/
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: vicz on Mon, 07 September 2009, 13:38:44
Quote from: quadibloc;115482
Hey, I wasn't even on drugs when I came up with this (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/enhpc.gif)!


Needs foot pedals.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: Rajagra on Mon, 07 September 2009, 13:53:40
Quote from: quadibloc;115482
Hey, I wasn't even on drugs when I came up with this (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/enhpc.gif)!

I can feel the colours, man!
Quote from: ripster;115536
Show Image
(http://capsoff.org/local--resized-images/mdkb:nikestyle/keyboard.png/medium.jpg)

Airbags? For extreme typing? Made by Volvo?
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: quadibloc on Mon, 07 September 2009, 14:16:30
Quote from: vicz;115533
Needs foot pedals.


I had actually considered, in order to allow full FORTRAN compatibility on modern computers...

adding six sense switches and four sense lights to the keyboard.

As were found on the front panel of the IBM 704 computer.

And then there's the Velotype keyboard, currently known as the Veyboard, which has pads intended to be pressed down with the wrists during typing.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 07 September 2009, 16:25:55
That's one wacky keyboard.
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 07 September 2009, 18:10:49
Quote from: spremino;115530
Caps Lock bashing sites:

http://anticapslock.com/
http://capsoff.org/
they are not bashing sites!  they are portals of enlightenment!
Title: Is there an anti-Caps Lock movement?
Post by: DreymaR on Tue, 03 November 2009, 02:09:17
Ridding yourself of the CapsLock key is premature. I get such joy from mine, as the PKL 'extend' key. It's pretty much like the HHKB Fn key for me, plus added goodness.