geekhack

geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 08:23:29

Title: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 08:23:29
***Lastest Update***
Order now is closed. It has more than the limitation, but don't worry..
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61414.0
My Interest check was created on 5th August whereas another has none and another gb has been created 9/08014. I think it's obvious enough. For the payment, you don't have to pay anything yet. I will pm you guys who order caps.


Resin Keycaps by HfCx

(http://gd2.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/54996596/TB2L3w3XVXXXXaqXXXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)


The purpose of doing this GB is not a profit. Instead, personally I really want to get ones of those caps for myself and I really want to share these beautiful keycaps with reasonable price to GH community.

****New update****
I have to inform you guys that there are a lot of orders has been placed for a few hrs. after this gb announced. I'm afraid that the manufacturer can't handle and produce in a short period of time because it takes time to produce these cap. And these keycaps are made by hand and machine. So, I have decided to put a limit for 30 pieces this round. You can check how many keycaps can be placed in the past paragraph of this post. Thank you guys


***The order will be closed on 24/08/14 and those caps will be shipped to me in the middle of September. Any update and change will be promptly announced.

Order Here       >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDZXc2xzbk1hbFpmbkR1WXFwMkdYelE6MA

Price :  $18.99 USD/ per keycap

Paypal  :  4.4%* $0.30 USD

Shipping : $5 USD via Thai Post Office (This price include registered tracking number)


Keycaps Specification

Material : Resin


Production Method : hand & machines


Designs and Colors available for sales


Captain America's Shield (Brown color)
(http://gd1.alicdn.com/imgextra/i1/54996596/TB2XQ.ZXVXXXXX3XpXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)


S.H.I.E.L.D logo (Black color)

(http://gd3.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/54996596/TB2zjkZXVXXXXXmXpXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)

S.H.I.E.L.D logo (Azure color)          --UNFORTUNATELY NO SINGLE KEYCAP PHOTO--
(http://gd4.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/54996596/TB2VtU5XVXXXXXwXXXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)


Iron man (Brown color)

(http://gd4.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/54996596/TB232wZXVXXXXc8XXXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)

Iron man (Red color)
        --UNFORTUNATELY NO SINGLE KEYCAP PHOTO--
(http://gd4.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/54996596/TB2VtU5XVXXXXXwXXXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)

Hydra (Brown color)
(http://gd3.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/54996596/TB2IF34XVXXXXaJXXXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)

EVA (Dark purple color)
(http://gd2.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/54996596/TB2ZwIZXVXXXXa4XpXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)

Heart pirates jolly roger (Orange color)
(http://gd4.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/54996596/TB2fUM3XVXXXXaTXXXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)

(http://gd4.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/54996596/TB2VtU5XVXXXXXwXXXXXXXXXXXX-54996596.jpg)

These pics show the production methods of these keycaps

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/nasayas25/production_zps64d6e04c.jpg)

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/nasayas25/2_zpsc18e9615.jpg)

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/nasayas25/3_zps94659cb9.jpg)

(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/nasayas25/5_zps3a046a0e.jpg)


Order list has been placed

46/30
   
Harrowed 4
bazh 2
regack 4
Heedpantsnow 2
tuantruong 2
LechnerDE 1
cyberwave 3
Jindesu 3
BamBooBam 9
lefthandedspatula 1
Fire Brand 2
Imbzppl 2
Barracuda 1
jangster 1
Raymond Shi 1
Lingj 1
MigZm 6
silat 1

Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 09 August 2014, 08:58:38
Nice to see something different for a change!
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: Harrowed on Sat, 09 August 2014, 09:00:57
Ordered some :thumb: Not the cheapest novelties but hopefully these really standout!
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: LechnerDE on Sat, 09 August 2014, 09:14:07
I'll order one cap to check the quality.

Can't decide for a design yet :p
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: bazh on Sat, 09 August 2014, 09:18:19
Orderred
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: TheAngleOfDeath on Sat, 09 August 2014, 09:20:18
Are these only available in MX or will they be able to make topre as well?
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 09:26:23
Are these only available in MX or will they be able to make topre as well?

Yes, these keycaps are only available for Cherry MX. I will ask the manufacturer to consider your request.  ;D
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 09:27:49
Ordered some :thumb: Not the cheapest novelties but hopefully these really standout!

Orderred

Thanks for all your supports!  ;D
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: cherpalla on Sat, 09 August 2014, 10:48:31
These are gorgeous!
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 11:03:57
I have to inform you guys that there are a lot of orders has been placed for a few hrs. after this gb announced. I'm afraid that the manufacturer can't handle and produce in a short period of time because it takes time to produce these cap. And these keycaps are made by hand and machine. So, I have decided to put a limit for 30 pieces this round. Thank you guys. :D
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: LechnerDE on Sat, 09 August 2014, 11:15:02
Just place my order for a Captain America Shield cap :)

Hope it was not too late?!
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: cyberwave on Sat, 09 August 2014, 11:46:02
Submitted 2 orders, first one was wrong :( please disregard that. Thanks!
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: JinDesu on Sat, 09 August 2014, 11:58:19
Woops, I wrote blue captain america but I meant brown, since that's the only color available.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: ImBZppl on Sat, 09 August 2014, 14:34:32
I hope my order for an eva and heart pirate jolly roger went through. My hands were shaking with anticipation and they still are.

Currently stalking my email to pay the invoice.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: Dragowing193 on Sat, 09 August 2014, 16:31:45
I'll take one EVA keycap.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: Barracuda on Sat, 09 August 2014, 16:39:14
I ordered a black Avengers one. I'd prefer a black Captain America one, but it isn't listed as a possible combination in your post... :(
But I'd be more than happy with the Avengers one.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: strikerpxs on Sat, 09 August 2014, 16:43:10
Dat Cap America shield!
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: JinDesu on Sat, 09 August 2014, 17:30:04
Hum, so what's going on with this post and the other recent one about these keycaps?
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: Barracuda on Sat, 09 August 2014, 17:30:54
Yep, I would like an answer too
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 21:13:43
My Interest check was created on 5th August whereas another has none and another gb has been created 9/08014. I think it's obvious enough. For the payment, you don't have to pay anything yet. I will pm you guys who order caps.

EDIT : http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61414.0
my interest check post
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 21:36:13
Now it seems to be even more complicated... first I don't want to make a war or anything messed up. My interest check and group buy purpose is to give something to the GH community but unfortunately there is someone famous here have tried to contact and tell the manufacturer to not sell anything for me. He seems to be able to find a profit from my interest check and quickly open a group buy. So, I have to say  I may not get any keycaps though about 99% since I'm not Chinese. They are both Chinese. Fear not, I have coped with some GH members to create ones like those but more higher quality. ( means no stripes on the side of keycaps) My gb is tough... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: BamBooBam on Sat, 09 August 2014, 21:52:36
Now it seems to be even more complicated... first I don't want to make a war or anything messed up. My interest check and group buy purpose is to give something to the GH community but unfortunately there is someone famous here have tried to contact and tell the manufacturer to not sell anything for me. He seems to be able to find a profit from my interest check and quickly open a group buy. So, I have to say  I may not get any keycaps though about 99% since I'm not Chinese. They are both Chinese. Fear not, I have coped with some GH members to create ones like those but more higher quality. ( means no stripes on the side of keycaps) My gb is tough... :rolleyes:

Well, I guess this would be better since shipping from China to worldwide would be really slow... Plus we could have more color/style options since we are doing it the GH way  :)) :))
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sat, 09 August 2014, 22:34:11
Now it seems to be even more complicated... first I don't want to make a war or anything messed up. My interest check and group buy purpose is to give something to the GH community but unfortunately there is someone famous here have tried to contact and tell the manufacturer to not sell anything for me. He seems to be able to find a profit from my interest check and quickly open a group buy. So, I have to say  I may not get any keycaps though about 99% since I'm not Chinese. They are both Chinese. Fear not, I have coped with some GH members to create ones like those but more higher quality. ( means no stripes on the side of keycaps) My gb is tough... :rolleyes:

Well, I guess this would be better since shipping from China to worldwide would be really slow... Plus we could have more color/style options since we are doing it the GH way  :)) :))


I have to admit that I have conflict with the producer. Since they are sold only in China, I want to them to the community. Unfortunately, someone told the manufaturer that I bought them to the community. And. I get the chinese price. However, i don't you guys to wait a hope because I may get ignored from the producer. My job is done to bring them to the GH community but with another seller and price. If you really want to wait, you can. But it may take time though. There is no need drama here I'm matured enough.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 09 August 2014, 23:21:28
Wow, much drama. Hope it can work out.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: feng on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:06:13
At first I didn't want to post here, I don't like being aggressive and all. But really, would you stop pretending to be like the hero here?

1. Depending on the price the producer gave you, you're definitely make a good fortune out of the $18.99. So don't say it like you're not doing this for profit.
2. I didn't ask the producer to not sell things to you, that's all your imagination. You lied to him first about not selling his products in other countries except for Thailand. The producer saw through your lies and you couldn't admit. I think you do know that selling on GH doesn't match your oral contract as only selling in Thailand right?
3. You posted the price $18.99 after I opened the pre-order in my vendor forum. So don't say it like I opened the pre-order because I saw your $18.99 price and figured I can make some money out of it.
4. The producer wants me to tell you, feel free to copy his products, he doesn't care. He knows how hard it is to make these keycaps. BTW, if you're going to make it on your own, please stop using his pictures.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: LechnerDE on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:20:23
Really sad so much drama came from this. I am not saying one of you two is to blame since I don't know what really happened, but after this I don't feel like buying this cap anymore:(
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:23:44
At first I didn't want to post here, I don't like being aggressive and all. But really, would you stop pretending to be like the hero here?

1. Depending on the price the producer gave you, you're definitely make a good fortune out of the $18.99. So don't say it like you're not doing this for profit.
2. I didn't ask the producer to not sell things to you, that's all your imagination. You lied to him first about not selling his products in other countries except for Thailand. The producer saw through your lies and you couldn't admit. I think you do know that selling on GH doesn't match your oral contract as only selling in Thailand right?
3. You posted the price $18.99 after I opened the pre-order in my vendor forum. So don't say it like I opened the pre-order because I saw your $18.99 price and figured I can make some money out of it.
4. The producer wants me to tell you, feel free to copy his products, he doesn't care. He knows how hard it is to make these keycaps. BTW, if you're going to make it on your own, please stop using his pictures.

How much are you making on yours at $26?  I don't mean to stoke the fire, but if you're going to call him out on that and say he's making good money at that price, why aren't yours cheaper?

This whole thing is silly at this point, but it's kind of sad to see someone calling someone out on their price when their price is ~40% higher.

Really sad so much drama came from this. I am not saying one of you two is to blame since I don't know what really happened, but after this I don't feel like buying this cap anymore:(

Agreed.  I do feel a little sympathy for keypro since they started the IC and have a lower price, but I don't think you can say one or the other less blameless right now.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: feng on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:39:17

How much are you making on yours at $26?  I don't mean to stoke the fire, but if you're going to call him out on that and say he's making good money at that price, why aren't yours cheaper?

This whole thing is silly at this point, but it's kind of sad to see someone calling someone out on their price when their price is ~40% higher.


This is another story. The price the producer gave keypro is actually lower than the price he gave me. Since he thinks Thailand is not a mature market for selling keycaps, he's fine with offering lower price for keypro just to expand the market a little more. The money I make from $26 might even be less than the money keypro is making from the $18.99. You see the point here? It's not like I don't want to lower the price, it's just because I have to set up the price depending on the producer.

For the first round in China, these keycaps are cheaper than they're now. Since they improved their equipments and due to the difficulty of making these keycaps, they increased the price.


Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:44:26
At first I didn't want to post here, I don't like being aggressive and all. But really, would you stop pretending to be like the hero here?

4. The producer wants me to tell you, feel free to copy his products, he doesn't care. He knows how hard it is to make these keycaps. BTW, if you're going to make it on your own, please stop using his pictures.

That's a pretty harsh claim to make. Can you prove that he's in fact selling copies/replicas?
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: ImBZppl on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:45:25
This Interest check and GB has turned sour. Wanted to order from keypro because he had the heart pirate jolly roger option now I am not so sure of either GB.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: nubbinator on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:46:38
At first I didn't want to post here, I don't like being aggressive and all. But really, would you stop pretending to be like the hero here?

4. The producer wants me to tell you, feel free to copy his products, he doesn't care. He knows how hard it is to make these keycaps. BTW, if you're going to make it on your own, please stop using his pictures.

That's a pretty harsh claim to make. Can you prove that he's in fact selling copies/replicas?


He said this on the last page:

Fear not, I have coped with some GH members to create ones like those but more higher quality. ( means no stripes on the side of keycaps) My gb is tough... :rolleyes:

It's not like they're copyrightable though since they're already copyrighted symbols and I'm sure the manufacturer does not have permission to use them.

Of course, I'd be interested to see how well they hold up since, from my own personal experience, I know paint doesn't hold up well on resin unless you paint the mold you cast it in, allowing it to bond with the resin.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: feng on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:48:45
At first I didn't want to post here, I don't like being aggressive and all. But really, would you stop pretending to be like the hero here?

4. The producer wants me to tell you, feel free to copy his products, he doesn't care. He knows how hard it is to make these keycaps. BTW, if you're going to make it on your own, please stop using his pictures.

That's a pretty harsh claim to make. Can you prove that he's in fact selling copies/replicas?

No I can't. Keypro only said he's going to make similar keycaps with highr quality, while keeps using HfCx's pictures. I'm not saying Keypro will make exactly the same thing, I meant he's free to make similar products.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 10 August 2014, 00:49:52
At first I didn't want to post here, I don't like being aggressive and all. But really, would you stop pretending to be like the hero here?

4. The producer wants me to tell you, feel free to copy his products, he doesn't care. He knows how hard it is to make these keycaps. BTW, if you're going to make it on your own, please stop using his pictures.

That's a pretty harsh claim to make. Can you prove that he's in fact selling copies/replicas?


He said this on the last page:

Fear not, I have coped with some GH members to create ones like those but more higher quality. ( means no stripes on the side of keycaps) My gb is tough... :rolleyes:

It's not like they're copyrightable though since they're already copyrighted symbols and I'm sure the manufacturer does not have permission to use them.

Of course, I'd be interested to see how well they hold up since, from my own personal experience, I know paint doesn't hold up well on resin unless you paint the mold you cast it in, allowing it to bond with the resin.

Ah, missed that. Thanks.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sun, 10 August 2014, 01:18:10
I think  enough said for me. Similar products mean using the same or better methods in producting. Sure not for the design. And what's point for you feng to make the statement in my gb? It doesn't matter at all how I pick those keycaps. For the profit, I honestly set the price to cover the expense. Do you wan me to release the price? Shipping from China to Thailand is not quite cheap. To be clear, I have no intention to offense in any term but you seems to...  It is pointless to talk and discuss more about this thread since you got what you want. I'm just a little normal man in this community to bring new things to GH members.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: LechnerDE on Sun, 10 August 2014, 01:56:01
I think  enough said for me. Similar products mean using the same or better methods in producting. Sure not for the design. And what's point for you feng to make the statement in my gb? It doesn't matter at all how I pick those keycaps. For the profit, I honestly set the price to cover the expense. Do you wan me to release the price? Shipping from China to Thailand is not quite cheap. To be clear, I have no intention to offense in any term but you seems to...  It is pointless to talk and discuss more about this thread since you got what you want. I'm just a little normal man in this community to bring new things to GH members.


Don't let that little controversy set you back! Just forget about it :)

I hope you are still going through with that LED cover GB  :thumb:
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 10 August 2014, 01:57:39
People should stop posting facts that nobody can prove. Slandering each others publicly does nothing but hurting GH.

The community has no way to know if what Feng or keypro are saying is true, so it's totally worthless to post it here. Resolve it privately and let the community know the verdict!

I'm fed up of these community feuds! It happened between boost and EK, between tintin and sprit now keypro and feng, ...

Before making your little skirmish public try to settle it privately!
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: keypro on Sun, 10 August 2014, 02:30:58
I think  enough said for me. Similar products mean using the same or better methods in producting. Sure not for the design. And what's point for you feng to make the statement in my gb? It doesn't matter at all how I pick those keycaps. For the profit, I honestly set the price to cover the expense. Do you wan me to release the price? Shipping from China to Thailand is not quite cheap. To be clear, I have no intention to offense in any term but you seems to...  It is pointless to talk and discuss more about this thread since you got what you want. I'm just a little normal man in this community to bring new things to GH members.


Don't let that little controversy set you back! Just forget about it :)

I hope you are still going through with that LED cover GB  :thumb:

Thanks for your reminder and support! It means to me a lot. I will post a update in my IC post when everything is ready.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: Harrowed on Sun, 10 August 2014, 04:13:11
OK... Things I want to eventually know:

1. Who is the maker of the original Chinese gb?

2. Who is the maker of the caps in the pictures?

3. Who will make the caps of this gb?
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: bazh on Sun, 10 August 2014, 08:16:12
Whoever is right doesnt matter at this time, too complicated to put money in, I dont feel like want these keycaps anymore.

Speaking of copyright, any of you guys have a talk with Marvel? Just curious.
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: pasph on Sun, 10 August 2014, 09:51:33


Whoever is right doesnt matter at this time, too complicated to put money in, I dont feel like want these keycaps

+1
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: 00zeRO on Fri, 31 October 2014, 13:14:00


Whoever is right doesnt matter at this time, too complicated to put money in, I dont feel like want these keycaps

+1

Must be a dead issue now... :(
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: GrimDoctor on Wed, 31 December 2014, 21:24:49
If a second round of these is made, count me in please :)
Title: Re: [GB] Captain America Shield, S.H.I.E.D logo, Iron man, Hydra, EVA Resin keycap
Post by: taylordcraig on Sat, 03 January 2015, 19:24:52
If a second round of these is made, count me in please :)

Please check before posting. This first round was messy and possibly never even happened.
Also this thread has been dead for months.