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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:42:24

Title: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:42:24
What would you recommend a long time keyboard enthusiast to try next?

I thought it would be fun to try this out 'cause we see a lot of newer users asking for help with their first boards but never any older users. Maybe someone like myself? I was focused Cherry and now I'm in love with Alps and buckling spring as well as MX. Was thinking of giving Space Invaders another chance.

And yes, I understand I'm leaving myself open to the new jokes  ;). Oh and this isn't a knock on those threads, I just thought it'd be fun to ask the question from a different perspective :).
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:44:40
Capacative switches. Model Fs and Topres.

I say this because I haven't tried either but I really want to whenever I have disposable income.

Plus I have yet to hear bad things about either of them...
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: saturnotaku on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:51:54
Capacative switches. Model Fs and Topres.

I say this because I haven't tried either but I really want to whenever I have disposable income.

Plus I have yet to hear bad things about either of them...

I was in the same boat and picked up a Realforce 87U from exitfire401 that he modified to be uniform 45g (save for Esc, print screen, scroll lock, and pause) and silent, a combination that's not otherwise available. After using it for just a couple days, I can unequivocally say it is the best keyboard I have ever used. I'm so happy with it that I purchased a variable weight silenced model to use at work. I will never use Cherry switches again.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Quardah on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:52:23
Well imo, since your reviews are pretty always complet, i'd say you could get non physical keyboards such as laser keyboards.

Cause it would be cool to get this technology going on properly and getting the pros to comment on them would defenetly push em forward.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:53:22
You need to try the One True Keyboard now. Convert to the Church of Topre and get yourself an HHKB. :)
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: osi on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:55:16
You need to try the One True Keyboard now. Convert to the Church of Topre and get yourself an HHKB. :)

Agreed - You can only deny the hhkb for so long
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:56:44
Well imo, since your reviews are pretty always complet, i'd say you could get non physical keyboards such as laser keyboards.

Cause it would be cool to get this technology going on properly and getting the pros to comment on them would defenetly push em forward.

Laser keyboards are about the worst possible for RSI sufferers.  There is nothing but impact as there is no switch for any "keystroke".  I wouldn't use one.  It is the same for touch screen keyboards as well.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:57:34
You need to try the One True Keyboard now. Convert to the Church of Topre and get yourself an HHKB. :)

Agreed - You can only deny the hhkb for so long

I can't type on Topre. 35g and 45g are too light for my tastes. 55g is acceptable but...

The bottom out really hurts my hands and I'm not interested in adapting my typing style or typing on anything that hurts. After an two or three hours of typing on a 55g 10AE, my hands felt like I had slapped my desk for an hour straight. It was a dull throbbing pain, like when you hit your shin on something.

The layout is interesting though, a Viper would have been fun to test drive.

Well imo, since your reviews are pretty always complet, i'd say you could get non physical keyboards such as laser keyboards.

Cause it would be cool to get this technology going on properly and getting the pros to comment on them would defenetly push em forward.

Laser keyboards are about the worst possible for RSI sufferers.  There is nothing but impact as there is no switch for any "keystroke".  I wouldn't use one.  It is the same for touch screen keyboards as well.

Agreed
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: jameslr on Wed, 13 August 2014, 14:02:02
You could make a banana keyboard with Makey Makey.

Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 August 2014, 14:06:18
I can't type on Topre. 35g and 45g are too light for my tastes. 55g is acceptable but...

The bottom out really hurts my hands and I'm not interested in adapting my typing style or typing on anything that hurts. After an two or three hours of typing on a 55g 10AE, my hands felt like I had slapped my desk for an hour straight. It was a dull throbbing pain, like when you hit your shin on something.

The layout is interesting though, a Viper would have been fun to test drive.

Bah, you need to try it again. HHKB feels nothing like Realforce in terms of switch weight. I don't know how to describe it. But the 45g domes in the HHKB just feel right. They don't feel too light, like the 45g RF do.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 13 August 2014, 14:08:04
You could make a banana keyboard with Makey Makey.


(http://www.down4sound.com/forum/images/smilies/do%20want.jpg)

I know what I'm buying next...
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Quardah on Wed, 13 August 2014, 14:15:54
Well imo, since your reviews are pretty always complet, i'd say you could get non physical keyboards such as laser keyboards.

Cause it would be cool to get this technology going on properly and getting the pros to comment on them would defenetly push em forward.

Laser keyboards are about the worst possible for RSI sufferers.  There is nothing but impact as there is no switch for any "keystroke".  I wouldn't use one.  It is the same for touch screen keyboards as well.

I understand the issue but for it's a newer technology it must have its flaws. It's not yet fully developped and most probably other designs will come out afterwards but it needs to be properly tested by advanced users in order to ensure engineers recieve advanced feedbacks.

You followin' da reasonin'?

Also i do not agree Touch screen keyboards are the same; Laser boards needs to have an external flat surface while tablet or cellphone keyboards can be used while being mobile. It's totally different things; one was created in order to replace existing technology, the other one was made in order to make known technology mobile.

iPad keyboards, expecially in portrait (can also be splitted!), type very well. It's very responsive, keystroke zones are large and very accurate. I understand it's a huge adaptation for older users (Younger people tend to learn faster), but i have to say i adapted fairly fast myself (yes i am young). You should see kids these days how fast they are with tactile devices, they can hit 60-70 wpm on an iPad at age 8 or something with thumbs only!

My nefew is a very impressive typist for an 8 years old, and even on physical boards, it seems like it's not much of a reverse adaptation. We gifted him his first computer last Xmas, and he was pretty much "plug and play" with the keyboard. He cannot use the numpad doe, no numpad on iDevices lol.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 13 August 2014, 15:25:13
Well imo, since your reviews are pretty always complet, i'd say you could get non physical keyboards such as laser keyboards.

Cause it would be cool to get this technology going on properly and getting the pros to comment on them would defenetly push em forward.

Laser keyboards are about the worst possible for RSI sufferers.  There is nothing but impact as there is no switch for any "keystroke".  I wouldn't use one.  It is the same for touch screen keyboards as well.

I understand the issue but for it's a newer technology it must have its flaws. It's not yet fully developped and most probably other designs will come out afterwards but it needs to be properly tested by advanced users in order to ensure engineers recieve advanced feedbacks.

You followin' da reasonin'?

Also i do not agree Touch screen keyboards are the same; Laser boards needs to have an external flat surface while tablet or cellphone keyboards can be used while being mobile. It's totally different things; one was created in order to replace existing technology, the other one was made in order to make known technology mobile.

iPad keyboards, expecially in portrait (can also be splitted!), type very well. It's very responsive, keystroke zones are large and very accurate. I understand it's a huge adaptation for older users (Younger people tend to learn faster), but i have to say i adapted fairly fast myself (yes i am young). You should see kids these days how fast they are with tactile devices, they can hit 60-70 wpm on an iPad at age 8 or something with thumbs only!

My nefew is a very impressive typist for an 8 years old, and even on physical boards, it seems like it's not much of a reverse adaptation. We gifted him his first computer last Xmas, and he was pretty much "plug and play" with the keyboard. He cannot use the numpad doe, no numpad on iDevices lol.

I agree. it has it's flaws. But the flaws are primarily in the concept, not the implementation.

A keyboard that senses only on contact is not ergonomic. You have to keep your fingers physically off the keys or else you will trigger them. This is very fatiguing. Pressure sensing can improve this by allowing you to rest your fingers lightly, but it's not possible with a laser board and it's still not tactile enough to be much use. A physical keyboard with "mechanical" switches will always be better in terms of ergonomics and usability.

Laser and touchscreens are more flexible in terms of layout, though.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 13 August 2014, 15:28:18
Back on topic,

Try trampoline modded 62g ErgoClears :) One of those Poker 2's from Massdrop with Clears would make a good starting point, or even better, the new Pure with aluminium case that is in development.

Myself... I'm going to try Matias Quiet switches next.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Grim Fandango on Wed, 13 August 2014, 15:31:50
ccc.....cant type on Topre.......

(http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u571/julieeatworld14/keyshineepissed_zpsb97fd521.gif)

Burn the heretic!
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 13 August 2014, 17:06:06
A long time keyboard enthusiast has probably tried most switches they are able or bothered to try.

I would probably suggest a different layout.

HHKB springs to mind.  JD40 is even more radical.

Or go the other way and try something like an M122.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 13 August 2014, 17:29:35
Or en ErgoDox. Atreus. Something along those lines. Maybe a Kinesis Advantage or uTron. DataHand?
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: absyrd on Wed, 13 August 2014, 17:30:49
A long time keyboard enthusiast has probably tried most switches they are able or bothered to try.

I would probably suggest a different layout.

HHKB springs to mind.  JD40 is even more radical.

Or go the other way and try something like an M122.

This is exactly what I'm doing. I was being lazy about exploring new layouts, so I'm starting with a JD40 and going from there...
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: paobit on Wed, 13 August 2014, 17:31:38
You need to try the One True Keyboard now. Convert to the Church of Topre and get yourself an HHKB. :)

Good god I just bought a GON and a poker 2 within a week of each other. Now you guys are just making me get the HHKB   :-\. Their facility is like 15 minutes away from me and I'm thinking just walk in and buy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: caesar on Wed, 13 August 2014, 17:36:03
Take 1 more for me bro  :thumb:
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: paobit on Wed, 13 August 2014, 17:41:37
I'm about 80% right now about actually doing it. Someone help me. Please make me stop.

But since everyone is talking about it I'd say just get it OP and if you don't like it just return it or sell it


OOOPS sorry OP just read you can't type on topre. Please disregard my post
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 13 August 2014, 17:53:43
the KUL

I'll let you try it next week
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 13 August 2014, 18:00:04
the KUL

I'll let you try it next week

Funny thing is I've been wanting to try that for a little while.

Or en ErgoDox. Atreus. Something along those lines. Maybe a Kinesis Advantage or uTron. DataHand?

A long time keyboard enthusiast has probably tried most switches they are able or bothered to try.

I would probably suggest a different layout.

HHKB springs to mind.  JD40 is even more radical.

Or go the other way and try something like an M122.

These are quality ideas :D.

Bah, you need to try it again. HHKB feels nothing like Realforce in terms of switch weight. I don't know how to describe it. But the 45g domes in the HHKB just feel right. They don't feel too light, like the 45g RF do.

I tried 45g on multiple HHKBs including one that Halverson brought to my house to play. I really wasn't into it. Too light and hand pains. I've given up on Topre. It's just not for me and my typing style.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Novus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 18:36:47
HHKB Type S.
No other alternative.

Is the KUL really that good?
Must resist temptation to buy one.

Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 14 August 2014, 01:33:07
Become an Omron hipster, then start singing the praise of Futaba and Fujitsu Peerless.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Weltschmerz on Thu, 14 August 2014, 01:52:01

Plus I have yet to hear bad things about either of them...
[/quote]

Well looking at the model f and to a larger extent, the m, those things have been around for YEARS. They are bullet proof, and will never break.
And I doubt the switches would either, buckling spring switches would probably outlast me  ;D
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: dante on Thu, 14 August 2014, 08:31:54
Is the KUL really that good?
Must resist temptation to buy one.

The KUL is for folks who want a Filco but prefer Cherry stabilizers.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:03:14
For those who have been in the game long enough to have worked out what physical layout, MX switches, springs, etc they like most, there is always the custom option: http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/

Good for "endgame" boards :)
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Lastpilot on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:07:54
Lol, yeah join the GON club, you know you want to :]
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: Parak on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:52:01
Beam Spring.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:54:52
Beam Spring.

Been looking for months for one, no luck yet.
Title: Re: KTOD - Recommend me a keyboard
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 14 August 2014, 11:15:40
Beam Spring.

Been looking for months for one, no luck yet.

Next one I find I'll PM you instead of posting....like that PC Convertible you missed out on :(