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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: henz on Thu, 14 August 2014, 14:21:48
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just wondering :) im trying out colemak atm, its fun to be a noob again
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qwerty ;)
curious to try an alternate layout at some point. reworking all that muscle memory will probably be frustrating. :p
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found a cool site on which you can train:
http://www.keybr.com/
if its any news :)
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I was literally just looking into this last night, nice site find!
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Azerty master race
i'll find my way out .
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found a cool site on which you can train:
http://www.keybr.com/
if its any news :)
Cool! Thanks for sharing!
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Azerty master race
i'll find my way out .
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
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QWERTY because: habit
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just wondering :) im trying out colemak atm, its fun to be a noob again
I've switched from qwerty to colemak to qwerty to colemak to qwerty (where I am currently). The switches to qwerty were socially dictated. I went back to colemak whenever I had the freedom to.
While I can't seem to keep both layouts simultaneously in my finger memory, I found that switching wasn't all that painful: after a few hours of frustration, it -- for both values of "it" -- all comes back. Indeed, switching back and forth may be healthy for both mind and body.
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i actually never tried switching before, as you say, its probably good for you.
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Qwerty at the moment, but I'm curious about other layouts. I'm already in the middle of retraining muscle memory with this new keyboard, so maybe now is a good time to learn a new layout too.
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Love that typing site, been playing on it all day. ;D
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no fun if you have alot of profile keycaps with legends and switch to something other than qwerty.
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found a cool site on which you can train:
http://www.keybr.com/
if its any news :)
Oh man, this site is really helpful at the moment. Great find!
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There's a ton of threads about this…
qwerty ;)
curious to try an alternate layout at some point. reworking all that muscle memory will probably be frustrating. :p
Don't rebuild your muscle memory, build a new one from scratch! Then you can switch between layouts just like some speakers switch between languages.
just wondering :) im trying out colemak atm, its fun to be a noob again
I've been using Colemak for three years… it sucks, much less than QWERTY and especially its national versions, but still sucks. The only reason to pick it is Tarmak: if you don't plan to use QWERTY ever again, can't lose productivity for a few weeks and generally don't want to change anything but the logical layout… that's a mistake IMO though, because a good ergonomic keyboard and changing ones workflow are possibly even a bigger change for the better.
I wish I knew about a stable layout w/ design features of AdnW and Maltron. Because y'know, DSK is far from perfect.
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I've switched from qwerty to colemak to qwerty to colemak to qwerty (where I am currently). The switches to qwerty were socially dictated. I went back to colemak whenever I had the freedom to.
While I can't seem to keep both layouts simultaneously in my finger memory, I found that switching wasn't all that painful: after a few hours of frustration, it -- for both values of "it" -- all comes back. Indeed, switching back and forth may be healthy for both mind and body.
One reason I picked dvorak over colemak is the ease of switching. I can now touch type in either qwerty or dvorak.
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found a cool site on which you can train:
http://www.keybr.com/
if its any news :)
Nice! I started playing with Workman, I kinda like the philosophy. As soon as I get one of my programmable keyboards I'll make some new creative layouts to try.
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I'm using dvorak, i much prefer it to qwerty and i'm a lot faster because i can touch type in dvorak
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Everyone is going to vote for their favorite, so topics like this aren't usually too interesting.
After typing Colemak for around 3 or 4 years now, I'd like to say that I feel that alternation, emphasized by Dvorak, is superior to rolling motions, emphasized by Colemak. However, at the same time I have my quibbles with some of the letter positions in Dvorak, having first hand experience using it for a few months.
Workman provides a very different approach than both, and I believe the concept is very much worth consideration. Maltron is most interesting to me due to the use of the second thumb to press the most common letter.
At this point in time I'm considering trying to algorithmically choose a new layout based on concepts from all of these layouts. An extra letter on the thumb, using physiologically favorable positions rather than assuming that the inner home row keys are the best, and focusing on alternation.
On the topic of learning to touch type in a new layout, I would not recommend that site that was linked. I would focus on typing short, frequent words that use common letters. Eat, ate, you, etc. Muscle memory on small common words and parts of words will let you start using the layout faster, and will help you form larger words in the future. I.e. once you know how to type "eat" quickly, it becomes very easy to also write seat, heat, beat, feat, great, and such.
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None of the above..
Modified AdNW. http://www.adnw.de/
Alternation, hand balance, bigram and trigram optimisation (with different weights for bottom to top row, etc..), individual key use optimisation, row use optimisation, etc.. All analysed and optimised with well written algorithms and tested by the designers. I say "modified" because I use a version modified for only English use which doesn't have the special German characters and optimisations. Actually the version I use is optimised for split, vertically staggered boards with thumb keys like the Truly Ergonomic since I use it on my own design ergonomic board (see my avatar) with similar layout, but you can choose the layout to optimise for when running the optimisation and design tools.
oneproduct, you make some good points.
I still use QWERTY on normal layout boards, since I have such good muscle memory for it and need to keep my speed up at work, but I'm getting up to speed with my custom board and layout and will hopefully soon replace my work board with one of those. And learning both a new physical and character layout at the same time hasn't messed with my QWERTY speed and muscle memory :D :thumb:
At this point, I'm not sure I'd bother learning a different character layout for normal physical layout boards. I've been using QWERTY for more than 30 years now, so it's pretty ingrained. On my ergo boards, though, definitely. Don't want to be using a board designed for ultimate ergonomics and use a poor layout on it.
QWERTY is just plain bad, Colemak is too similar to QWERTY so it messes with your muscle memory when learning and the rolls are not as good as alternation (too much single hand work), Dvorak has some poorly placed characters and symbols. "Fixing" Dvorak is not as simple as moving a few characters around, as they all affect the way the layout as a whole works. AdNW is the best approach, IMHO.
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I'm thus far enjoying Programmer's Dvorak. See where it stands in a few days.
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Qwerty cause people are dumb and if you are not typing qwerty you are "dumb" because the whole world cannot be wrong right?
No seriously Colemak is the only other layout i've tried so far and it's pretty plug and play for a qwerty typist if you can touchtype and have a visual reference.
It's damn fast if you master it, arguably the fastest one (engineered for fast writting)
Dvorak's been there for a while but i just never took grasp of it, i just don't feel like it's any good for my bilingual english/french needs. I don't like changing basic stuff like the point or comma.
(NOTE: NO WE DO NOT TYPE AZERTY IN QUEBEC THANKS)
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Hold up, something Québécois without being difficult?
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I'm using qwerty right now but I would like to try dvorak sometime so people would not be able to use my computer. :p
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Hold up, something Québécois without being difficult?
Haha yea but you know in the end it's just nice being versatile. Knowing both languages defenetly is a plus for us here in MTL, cause we have a lot of tourists from Europe or the USA that mostly speak only a single language. Also most of our MTL based enterprises work in both therefore it's a plus on the C.V. and most of medias/entertainment (movies, music, books, games, festivals i could say as well) are sometimes either a single language or maybe both but the translation is plain bad, therefore more access to the cool stuff of life is always a plus imo.
Back to subject, QWERTY is pretty much international norm nowaday, therefore it's kinda plug and play with any language. You can be very effective in QWERTY therefore you should always start by mastering it before going anywhere else.
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Aye, aside from the reported benefits to multilingualism in learning and comprehension, I merely jest that our francophone brethren aren't the easiest to get along with.
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Aye, aside from the reported benefits to multilingualism in learning and comprehension, I merely jest that our francophone brethren aren't the easiest to get along with.
Don't worry we're not demons.
Whatever happens we ain't going to kill each other anymore, that's old crap we're not doing anymore right?
Even if we seperate we'll still love you cause you guys are not meanies. I guess you would do the same, obviously because we have Poutine eh.
Anyway how could the frenchy impact your lifestyle? You live on the other side of the world lol NWT is just so far from us! Do they give french class to your kids at your local schools or is it completly ommited?
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It was compulsory until grade 8, now I'm not certain. Poutine is your greatest gift to mankind, though!
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I am a Colemak user and I am happy that I have switched. The typing distance is 30% less, you feel much more relaxed. Once converted, I never look back.