The black ones aren't stiff,
there are no "slow" keyboards, only slow fingers. use alt + # instead of double tapping.
I'm currently playing WC3 not BW.. and SC2 did not have alt + # functionality on the build I played at Blizzcon and in all likelihood will not have it on release.
Are you saying everyone who is claims switching from membrane to mechanical raised their typing speed is lying?
i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.
well, if moon endorses it then it must be the best gaming keyboard ever. silly me. 1a2a3a...
I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?
quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx
"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."
I was going to get a Filco with Cherry Browns.. but now I don't know. What's so special about the Cherry Blues, apart from being more clicky?
quote from: http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx
"The Cherry MX Blue, however, is both tactile and clicky. And the Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky. And all three require different amounts of force to actuate, the heaviest being the Black model, followed by the Blue, and then the Brown."
No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.
No idea what you're talking about.. honestly I wish this community could see how trash your posts are.
oh, i'm sorry i was wrong. please, buy the 100$ keyboard that professional gamers use or the cherry switches that are obviously so much faster than the rubber domes--it has been proven to raise apm after all. you'll be making a very wise decision.
I don't think we need any insults, the opinion that the mechanical characteristics of a keyboard has little effect on the activation times for it's keys seems like a perfectly valid one.
Nice little discussion on Blue Cherry vs Brown here. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6099)
Personally, I think the brown cherries are better for gaming. I've YET to hear anyone praise the Blacks or even White Alps copies for gaming.
Just don't buy the Steelseries 7G and I'll be happy.
What is there to argue about? The fact here is that everyone loves mechanical keyboards. We don't care what programmers use because they can use whatever they want, but if they're not using a mechanical keyboard, then they're missing out on some good stuff.
Nice little discussion on Blue Cherry vs Brown here. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6099)
Personally, I think the brown cherries are better for gaming. I've YET to hear anyone praise the Blacks or even White Alps copies for gaming.
Just don't buy the Steelseries 7G and I'll be happy.
Good choice, if you like Light you'll like Brown Cherries.
For gaming you could always use AutoHotkey to add multimedia hotkeys and macros. For that LED fix just hit the CapsLock a few times. That'll blind ya!!
I don't know of a single progamer who uses a mechanical keyboard..
They all use the DT35 (http://www.edepot.cn/images/sem_dt35_b.jpg) coming from TL I'm sure you already know that..
All I'm saying is that if you were from the community we are from you could see his posts for what they are..
Simply look at this guys post history and realize that he's joined a forum where people obsess about keyboards and has taken it upon himself to tell everyone the things they are buying aren't necessary and $10 membranes are the way to go...
It's not hard to see who's being confrontational and it sucks.
i'm saying if you're slow on rubbers you'll continue to be slow on springs. speed comes from how fast the neurons in your brain are firing, not the actuation of a key.
i'm using the tenkeyless filco cherry blues currently that i ordered from Filco TW directly, absolutely great buy in my opinion except for the fact that ppl in the same room as me find the clicks on my keyboard either really annoying or they really like it. I like the fact that there is the quality of a filco keyboard on it and that it uses blue cherry mx switches. a + on this keyboard also that it is very portable and i love taking it on the road to use, showing it off sometimes as well haha.
The reduced keypad isn't that big of a deal for me. The only way that it has really affected me so far is that when i play dota, i can't use the numpad and use items haha, i'll have to click and use the specific item when using this keyboard. Other thatn that i just love typing on this keyboard. looks great, feels great, and the keys dont' seem to be wearing off that soon either. I think its because the lettering on it is laser etched? I'm not quite sure about that. nonetheless, if you're thinking of getting a portable mechanical keyboard but don't quite want to spend tehh money from a realforce or hhkb, definately get this keyboard or if not, get the tenkeyless with brown switches. I'm thinking of getting 1 with the brown switches as well haha.
Well, it depends on what you're looking for to an extent. If you're smashing keys down extra hard to get that click or tactile response, then a switch which gives it to you might allow you to not strike as deep and slow, or might reduce exhaustion for longer sustained typing.
To throw my hat into the angry debate, I am a programmer (mostly PHP nowadays) and I use an early-90s 1391401 at work. The feel helps with accuracy and speed, and not having it fail suddenly after a few months helps with productivity
Agreed.
I tend to look suspiciously at any hardware targeted explicitly for gamers. Video cards advertised for gamers are all-too-often either "Let's fool the customer by saying that a FX5200 is the ideal gaming card" or "a $450 card that's only a little better than a $175 card in 95% of games". I didn't like the whole "I'll slap my name on EVERY lousy piece of hardware with a red LED" Fata1ity thing, and there are a huge stack of "gaming" keyboards and mice which are of mediocre quality, but very pretty.
In a way, I'd expect the gaming community to almost be a closed, word-of-mouth thing, and brands that explicitly attempt to target them will always feel "fake"
However, there are a wide array of other reasons to get a good keyboard. Now, if only most "gaming" keyboards fit the definition.
But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards.
The third one is mice. Most hardcore FPS gamers use low sensitivity settings on their mouse - this means that they have to move the mouse very fast and over large distances on their mousepad to move around. 80%-90% of standard mice can't handle that kind of acceleration and speed (just try to get a cheap-o mouse and move it as fast as you can on a mousepad, see what happens to the cursor). So the term "gaming mouse" points to those mice that can (some better than others). Also, virtually all mice have some sort of auto-leveling feature built in - where if you want to draw a straight line across the screen it helps out by ignoring any minor vertical movements. Gaming mice never do that. So instead of gamers going around and testing out every mouse on the market the companies made it easier by pointing out which mice are (supposedly) guaranteed to fit these two gaming criteria.
really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?
Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:
Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.
But the truth of the matter is that there are only two types of video cards: Workstation cards and Gaming cards. Workstation cards are tuned for AA, a lossless z-buffer, two-sided lighting, and other stuff that is important to CAD and Rendering programs.
I'd agree, but I think that a good gaming mouse generally makes a good general purpose mouse (unless you start to consider trackballs) so even that distinction is rather arbitrary.
Believe me, putting high end parts into a crappy low end case is a bad idea. That said, all the good cases out there aren't tacky "gamer" cases, so I guess your point stands. Again, another example of a good gamer part being a good part in general.
What gets me is the marketing though:
Among the gamer spectrum, you have the super-high-end cards, and fair enough reasonably targeted for gamers. I wouldn't pay $600 for a card that spends 98% of its life idle.
You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.
And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.
And then there are the low-end workstation cards-- the $50 FireGL or Quadro model they slap into business PCs that need dual monitor support. I always wondered what the deal was with them-- if they have the same optimizations as "real" workstation cards, or if they're just branded that way because businesses won't buy the gamer brands.
Like this Rosewill (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147073).
I'm surprised. It looks like it might be good for cable management (with no real motherboard tray, you can slip a lot of cables behind it), but it seems pretty flimsy construction wise. That "top-to-bottom drive cage" layout is sort of common on older design cheap cases, and the punch-out slot covers are made of fail.
This is my favourite case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811128024
Or more accurately, the black 4x5.25" version (comes with a five-bay 3.5" internal drive cage instead of the lower 5.25 bays). Roomy, cheap, reasonably tasteful design, solid.
I'm trying to decide if I want to de-case my rig and put it back in (not thrilled by the cooling of a bottom-mount PSU design)
Most rosewill cases are built like crap, but that's one of the ones built out of steel. So you know it can take a beating.
As for bottom PSU cooling....well what heatsink do you have on your CPU? As long as you use one of the tower models - like a TRUE or megahalem - it should work just fine since it would direct hot air straight towards the rear fan.
Xigmatek HDT-S1283. The problem is that its AM2 mount-- on most AM2 boards (including the two I used)-- directs airflow up.
With the PSU at the top, that adds extra exhaust (esp. with a PSU with a bottom 120mm fan), but with a bottom PSU, it just directs into the 3" of space at the top of the case.
The Mountain Mods stuff always looks a little "let's show all the bolts" for my taste.
But everything else is nothing but a scam and abuse of the market. Gaming keyboard, gaming headset, gaming speakers, gaming mousepad, gaming monitor, gaming computer case....really, wtf is a computer case going to do for your gaming?
Unless, like nVidia, you use exactly the same hardware for both (GeForce & Quadro), program different firmware on the workstation version and charge twice as much.:lol:
You have the midrange cards, which few want to speak of (though that 4770 sounds appealing if they can make it fanless) although they'd be perfect for a lot of gamers.
And then you have low-end cards, which really need to be rebranded as something like "cards for people who need a dual output but don't game", because they're virtually misleading-- they might be older gaming designs, but they're unsuitable for much gaming.
At least intel have stopped refering to their integrated graphics as 'Extreme'
Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?
I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these. (http://www.ocia.net/fullsize.php?filename=164_6.JPG)
Nice hs/f there for your cpu. What fan did you use for your hs/f?
Well they made the 4850 passive (I've got one), so the cooler 4770 shouldn't be a problem.
The stock one.
Yeah, I've got the Xigimatek 1283 as well and it's an impressive heatsink being cool and (very) quiet and cheap. It's better than the Noctua fans I bought which have been a bit of a disappointment (I need to try replacing them with the ones that came with the case, but those rubber screws are much difficult to use than the ones with the Xigimatek's fan).
I always wondered what AMD were thinking when they designed that vertical CPU mount... Kind of irrelevant for me because I have one of these. (http://www.ocia.net/fullsize.php?filename=164_6.JPG)
I'm not sure about that, N-key rollover on keyboards and no input lag on monitors certainly have a positive effect on gaming. And by all accounts Steelseries 5H headset is pretty amazing for detecting footsteps and similar in games and rubbish for music and similar.
If gaming mice are genuine because of their unusual movement patterns then why not gaming mousepads? Regardless, gaming mousepads are still good because otherwise the high quality mousepad market would be tiny.
A case can help your gaming by quietening the sounds of a graphics card and, in theory, guaranteeing there will be enough space for any graphics card you choose. A powerful graphics card seems to be the only common component that can't be cooled with a near silent heatsink and fan (in load).
The issue isn't that specific peripherals can't improve the gaming experience, it's that so many marketed as gaming peripherals don't.
Gaming LCDs are the biggest scam because CRTs outperform them in every way - the biggest advantage being absolutely no ghosting, the second biggest being the ability to decrease the resolution without completely screwing up the image (to get more FPS without sacrificing much image quality).
LCDs may be inferior in input lag, ghosting and refresh rate, but you try finding a new widescreen CRT for sale.
As for the resolution thing that's just because most LCDs come with poor quality scalers, you can get big improvements if you set your monitor to 1:1 and get the graphics card to scale instead.
Does it have to be new? You can get perfectly good used 24" WS CRTs for $85 a pop. And they do 2304x1440 @ 85Hz.
Hey. Would someone be able to order a blank blue for me and send it over to the ol UK.
I can paypal the moneys :)
Shipping should be around $30 priority from other boards I have had sent in from the states.
If anyone would be kind enough to do this there is a set of Filco purple keys in it for the kind person :)
Why don't you get it from EliteKeyboards? Majestouch is very willing to ship them over to Europe aswell! I got my Filcos from EliteKeyboards and the shipping was around $40 or something. They arrived here in Germany within 2 days!
You need to email him if you want it shipped overseas.
I did send an email like a hour ago.. to support aet elitekeyboardsdotcom. Should I use another email address?
I used Sales@... It might be a while before he gets back to you with the differences in timezone and all that, but he's always responded to all my mails.
Can anyone help me get one from him?
Keep in mind, this is majestouch's side business. The guy does have other things going on in his life. For him to provide the level of service he does is absolutely phenomenal.
Hah, that's one cable tie trick I hadn't seen before.
Whenever I put one of those humongous Skyscraper heatsinks on I'm always afraid I'm gonna hear this cracking sound as the motherboard tears apart.
Got a reply from elitekeyboards.com. The shipping will be $48, which is a bit salty.. but it's not like I've got a choice.
Got a reply from elitekeyboards.com. The shipping will be $48, which is a bit salty.. but it's not like I've got a choice.
Too bad I need to wait for a couple of days to get my money businesses sorted before I can pay for the shipping :/
Do you have VAT in your country? If so, you need to take that into account, too.
I had to pay $52, and I'm sitting on the part of Europe closest to the US! (except for Greenland, although I can't imagine there would be too many keyboard afficienados there...)
I'm not sure how Fedex handles brokerage, but that's something to take into account as well.
UPS charges a flat $30CDN brokerage + whatever duty on top of it (unless you have your own brokerage agent). USPS has never charged either duty or brokerage on a shipment, and I don't recall ever being charged brokerage by Purolator either.
Just be prepared that you may have to pay Shipping + Duty + Brokerage.
I just ran the numbers for a Das from Getdigital.de assuming a UK customer.
113 Euro or $157. The tax thing was confusing but I assume the VAT is part of that.
I just ran the numbers for a Das from Getdigital.de assuming a UK customer.
113 Euro or $157. The tax thing was confusing but I assume the VAT is part of that.
So does this sound right - the Filco is a tad more expensive than the Das when you add shipping?? About $115 plus $50 shipping/VAT?? If it sounds right I'll add it to the Das vs Filco comparison in the reviews section.
Yes. They charge me for VAT+customs for a lot of boards, much more than before the economic crisis. Even labelling as "gift" doesn't always cut it anymore. Funny thing is USPS wants it cash now here, but does not carry change because of security. Depends on your country how much they let through. If there's a customs check on USPS here, it takes three (!) more weeks now. FedEx and UPS are much faster (one or two days in customs). They don't ask cash and just bill you.
I just ran the numbers for a Das from Getdigital.de assuming a UK customer.
113 Euro or $157. The tax thing was confusing but I assume the VAT is part of that.
So does this sound right - the Filco is a tad more expensive than the Das when you add shipping?? About $115 plus $50 shipping/VAT?? If it sounds right I'll add it to the Das vs Filco comparison in the reviews section.
The proverbial eagle has landed! And the customs fell for the "gift" declaration (huge thanks for this majestouch). I'm really loving this new board, pics and reviews later!
Yes, but have you tried to whisper "i-rocks" in her ear? I mean, people came together and consciously conspired on that name. Teh evil..
The Dutch in Indonesia is no fun stuff. My grandfather died there.
Actually what happens in the UK is:
Customs take the actual price or judged value, whichever is higher;
Add to this the postage and insurance paid;
Charge duty on ALL the above (around 5%);
Charge VAT on ALL the above (15%);
Whoever delivers the parcel charges their own fee for collecting the duty.
Note that we pay VAT plus duty on postage and insurance. Duty and VAT are charged consecutively, so we pay VAT on the duty. Adds up nicely for them.
The good news is we shouldn't pay duty or VAT on goods from the EU.
I'm not sure the gift idea is effective. If it's over £30 you pay duty and tax anyway. Whether they make these charges seems pretty random. I'm pretty sure they just look at the parcel, and the more professionally packaged it is, the more likely they are to charge you.
Edit> And Iam47 is right, they read the $ price and treat it like £.
So Parcel force have a £14 fee? I thought It had been different actually. I think I had a TNT one that was cheaper than that.
but was still surprised by the build quality,
Ya gotta post a pic in Computing Setups when you get a chance to take a new photo. That's just wild.
I've got that CH Pro throttle and Fighterstick too - just need someone to ship a good A-10 Warthog game.
just need someone to ship a good A-10 Warthog game.
your name is Adolfo and you love WWII sims? There's a joke in here somewhere...I can't quite figure it out though
your name is Adolfo and you love WWII sims? There's a joke in here somewhere...I can't quite figure it out though
Hi guys, I just joined the forum after spending hours reading it the past couple of days.
I just placed an order in for this keyboard from elitekeyboards.com and hopefully it's all that and lives up to its praise. I definitely look forward to using it.
Currently I'm using a Microsoft Ergo 4000 keyboard and have been looking for a replacement with backlit keys. My hunt first started with a search of the big two (Microsoft and Logitech). The Logitech Illuminated and diNovo Edge keyboards definitely stood out to me. They were pretty pricey so I started looking up and doing some research on keyboards to justify the high purchase prices. This ultimately led to me discovering the wonders of a mechanical keyboard. Upon reading the advantages of a mechanical keyboard over those that are membrane or dome-switch, I couldn't ever see myself spending such a large sum of money for a keyboard that's ultimately inferior.
Now with a mechanical keyboard set in mind, I looked into the Deck Legends as it was backlit which was what I originally wanted. The research ultimately led me to this keyboard haven. With the popularity and glowing praise of the Filco keyboards by you members, I just had to hop along on the ride and pick up the Filco Cherry Blue's since they are in limited supplies.
I'm definitely a keyboard noob, but someday maybe I'll join you guys as keyboard connoisseurs.
Just about half a year ago I still had no clue about mechanical keyboards or anyhting related to them. And now here I am with about 20 keyboards in my collection and typing in obscure keywords on eBay to find mislabeled ancient boards and analyzing switch types between clients at work
I just got my Filco :)
Seems pretty nice but I do have one key that sticks down and needs wiggling to get back up. I don't want to go opening it and replacing the switch. Any ideas how to stop it?
Its the switch and not the cap that is causing the problem.
Thanks.
Laurie.
Lam, you seem to often have sticky problems - hope this one goes away on it's own. I'd accuse the London fog but your pics say it's sunny over the pond.
Its the =+ key. I think it is getting better now though as it is not sticking every time. :)
they're sold out now :(
is there going to be more in the future?
i wonder if they ship to Finland...
He will ship to Finland, but you may want to ask about warantee work should you need it. I think there was some issues overseas folks had with shipping costs, or something.
Also you will most likely have to pay any customs duty + VAT.
These were a limited run. I don't know if there will be more or not.
Its the =+ key. I think it is getting better now though as it is not sticking every time. :)
My = Is working fine now :) Just needed to bed in a bit I think.
Laurie.
Just needed to bed in a bit I think.
UrbanDictionary doesn't give accurate responses. They are pretty good on most things, but "Otaku" is mostly reserved for anime nerds who collect piles of anime "crap", posters figurines, and body pillows with their favorite anime character printed on them (not joking). I think if you directly translated that, it wouldn't exactly be the same exact thing that 'otaku' is used for 90% of the time
edit: at least when used in the Western world
lol oh yeah him...
also I'm not talking about those pillows, RipsterShow Image(http://otaku.sk/otaku.jpg)
should i get the blank key model? it's not that blank keys are an issue, but it looks so... so nerdy (isn't that just what otaku translates to?). the blank keys look so cool yet incredibly stupid at the same time, it just blows my mind.
lol oh yeah him...
also I'm not talking about those pillows, RipsterShow Image(http://otaku.sk/otaku.jpg)
Looks like there's no brokerage or duty when it comes FedEx (at least my Filco just showed up with no issues).
The morale of this story, please please please don't ship UPS internationally. The worst I've ever had with them was being charged $30 in brokerage for Free samples from Texas Instruments.
I guess it's a matter of taste. For me the coolness factor is long over. It may be funny to impress visitors with a blank keyboard. But while I do touchtype I occasionally want to type some words or key combos one-handed, which is very hard with blank keys. And since I don't find blank keys particularly good looking (in fact I even think it looks like a prototype, an unfinished product pulled from the middle of the production line (well, that's what it is after all)) there's absolutely no question for me. I just get the lettered variant if there's a choice, because sometimes I need the printings and don't think blank keys look good (not ugly either, though). It's a practical decision for me.
I think lal was emphasizing the one hand thing - I'm sure he can type two handed fine on a blank keyboard.
It is just a matter of time, and your old cognitive pattern recognition will be replaced. Not only in touch, also in vision. If I look at a blank key I know exactly which key it is.
There is an advantage, which is that knowing your board without the labels makes you a better typist. It is hard to explain. But let me ask you this: why aren't there note labels on piano keys? Would you have better piano players if they had labels, and they would not be able to play them without them? I think their control would not be as good. Feel the board, Luke..Be the board! There is no looking.
The only OTHER one I can think of is that a lot of people get PO'd that the lettering eventually rubs off or discolors on modern keys (anything that isn't dual shot or dye impregnated). You avoid THAT problem but still end up getting shiny keys eventually.
And the Piano analogy is OK but not perfect. You've got a linear progression of notes, black keys to "signal" octave boundaries.
Maybe a cello would be a better analogy.
Yeah, I think it's a great keyboard. Love dem Cherry Blues.....
And don't worry about the money. It'll be clicking away long after your graphics card (which you probably paid more for) is obsolete.
Yeah, I think it's a great keyboard. Love dem Cherry Blues.....
And don't worry about the money. It'll be clicking away long after your graphics card (which you probably paid more for) is obsolete.
Yeah, I think it's a great keyboard. Love dem Cherry Blues.....
And don't worry about the money. It'll be clicking away long after your graphics card (which you probably paid more for) is obsolete.
Keyboards on the other hand last a very long time.
After much research here for my needs. I now have the blank version coming in the mail. I'm really looking forward to a nice keyboard after my Logitech g11 died on me.