geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: anowt on Sat, 30 August 2014, 15:06:48
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for those of us that like to think about the future, we may know that cm storm has announced their novatouch tkl based on the topre switch with mx-compatible stems. the abs plastic is a bunch of ****, but so is the price. $200 is way too much from a company like cooler master.
i mean, come on. it's cooler master. i bought a corsair case off this guy on craigslist and bartered down to $60 (saved $40) and he included these coolermaster fans with it. needless to say, i immediately took them out and replaced them with some quality pwm fans. the point? coolermaster has always been junk. all CM is doing with their novatouch at that price point is taking advantage of hipsters, not gamers.
most of coolermaster's target audience are gamers that want to buy parts for cheap. novatouch tkl is a great idea, but 200usd is too expensive.
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I'm more than happy to spend 200 USD to harvest the sliders! :D
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Why do we need another thread on this again? Take your pick from the last two 30+ page threads.
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God, shut up. Good for you, you bought a used case off craigslist and swapped the fans out, have a gold ****ing star, it still doesn't make you a pricing expert on all things from one brand.
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The novatouch is quite clearly not aimed at their gamer target audience. $200 is more than we were originally expecting, sure, but I certainly wouldn't call it out of line considering what it offers.
And I'm not sure how you replacing the fans in a used case proves any point at all, let alone proving that the keyboard is too expensive.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
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Look at cooler master's product page. All the stuff is cheap. If you build a pc, you hear bad reviews left and right on cm product reliability. Reliability usually is a good indication of overall product quality.
But it makes sense that the company isn't primarily oriented around quality since cm's audience are mostly gamers.
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Look, nobody's holding a gun to your head and telling you to buy it. If you think it's too expensive, the solution is simple....don't buy it! I for one think the price is to be expected given it's a Topre board after all, and besides, with its Cherry hybrid stems, one can have a whole lot of fun customizing it. I had just ordered a Bumble Bee set because I love the idea of seeing it on the Novatouch. In fact, the Miami set looks great on mine right now.....thinking of getting a second Novatouch when the Bumble Bee set arrives.
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[attachimg=1]
at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
unless you want something other than the stock caps sure.... ::)
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Topre caps are some of the best in the business though ;)
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Topre caps are some of the best in the business though ;)
Yeah those sick topre Miami, Hyperfuse, etc etc sets are the best!
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Look at cooler master's product page. All the stuff is cheap. If you build a pc, you hear bad reviews left and right on cm product reliability. Reliability usually is a good indication of overall product quality.
But it makes sense that the company isn't primarily oriented around quality since cm's audience are mostly gamers.
You on crack.
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Topre caps are some of the best in the business though ;)
Yeah those sick topre Miami, Hyperfuse, etc etc sets are the best!
we all dont have the tastes of 90s teenagers
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I've been nothing but satisfied with CM's products.
But then again, I've only purchased their high quality stuff (cases and the QFR mainly).
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I like my stryker case even though I really want a Lian li
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Topre caps are some of the best in the business though ;)
Yeah those sick topre Miami, Hyperfuse, etc etc sets are the best!
;)
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Well it's partially because they're the only one in the world at the moment that has official MX compatible Topre sliders.
At the moment you have a few options:
1) Wait till price drop or when it goes on sale, usually launch price is a bit higher.
2) Wait for another third party to make similar products.
3) Buy a Realforce / HHKB / Leopold FC660C and forget about customizing your keycaps.
Price is typically reflected on "how bad you want it now", typically if you can wait then you can get it cheaper later.
And for a lot of people time is money, so paying more typically saves time.
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Coming on here complaining about it isn't going to bring the price down. If it's too expensive for you, tough luck. I think it's fairly priced considering what it offers.
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God, shut up. Good for you, you bought a used case off craigslist and swapped the fans out, have a gold ****ing star, it still doesn't make you a pricing expert on all things from one brand.
Haha I love you tj. Couldn't agree more.
I personally have bought numerous cm items. All have been fine.
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i have a cm haf932, and while i hate how it looks, it's a nice case.
you know what brand im never buying tho? ducky.
man the one ducky board i had was a POS. but it was only 50 so i guess you get what you pay for.
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That was my first thought when I saw the MSRP, then it was no way I'm paying that much for a CM board.
I can say that CM set a high price point at the time* as they were the only company to offer such a keyboard and essentially they were able to set the price. But seeing how there's been a chinese clone of it already, they might reconsider the price of it when it officially is released for sale.
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Most mechanical keyboards are overpriced. They could sell Cherry MX boards at $50 and still make a profit. This board isn't much different. They're that expensive because there is little competition and people are willing to pay a lot.
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Any amount of money Greater-than-ZERO is too much to pay for a crummy single piece keyboard.
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That was my first thought when I saw the MSRP, then it was no way I'm paying that much for a CM board.
I can say that CM set a high price point at the time* as they were the only company to offer such a keyboard and essentially they were able to set the price. But seeing how there's been a chinese clone of it already, they might reconsider the price of it when it officially is released for sale.
Those Chinese clones as you call them were discussed before anyone had ever heard of the novatouch.
And I would hardly call them a contender.
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nope
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Agreed.
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I got to have a little play with one last weekend at iseries and thought it felt incredible. I would be willing to drop the asking price on one, because of the mx keycap compatibility.
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I completely disagree.
Unlike many gaming brands. Cooler Master is doing an admirable job of offering products that are not just "gaming branded" but are also a good quality. It is no coincidence that so many people here have been repping their Quickfire Rapid as one of the best bang for buck mechanical keyboards. It was Costar made and of comparable quality to well known and respected brands like Filco. Compared to the other "gaming brands" I would even go as far as to say that when it comes to keyboards, they have the best trackrecord. Their other peripherals, such as their mice, offer a comparable quality/performance for the price.
Additionally, if the product is good, the brand does not matter (other than for customer service when needed). It makes no sense to rely too much on brand names. Especially in consumer electronics. Nearly every brand has some good and some bad products. It is more useful to get some feedback about the specific product you are interested in, instead of believing in brand names. It is funny that you should mention Corsair, who has had for more serious problems in every generation of their mechanical keyboard (LEDs dying, for example), and in my opinion have done a far worse job in their peripherals in terms of performance, despite their popularity. And it does make sense to look at their peripherals, and not random other products that fall under the same brand but are designed, assembled, outsourced, produced in different parts of the world by different people.
Finally, the price is a tad high given that it has ABS keycaps and does not do too much extra, and it has to compete with for example the realforce keyboards. On the other hand, the price is comparable to that of almost any Topre keyboard out there. You pay a slight premium for the novelty of MX keycaps on a topre board. Does not seem too odd. That said, for the price, I would personally go for the Realforce. But that has more to do with how much I like the Realforce's than my dislike for CM.
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Cheaper than a used Clickclack
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I completely disagree.
[...]
Finally, the price is a tad high given that it has ABS keycaps and does not do too much extra, and it has to compete with for example the realforce keyboards. [...]
I appreciate your comment.
This might help put things into perspective. How many people do you think would be full of brand-loyalty-elitist anger if we started 3D printing our own topre/mx hybrid sliders for around 20usd a set?
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Cheaper than a used Clickclack
kek
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I completely disagree.
[...]
Finally, the price is a tad high given that it has ABS keycaps and does not do too much extra, and it has to compete with for example the realforce keyboards. [...]
I appreciate your comment.
This might help put things into perspective. How many people do you think would be full of brand-loyalty-elitist anger if we started 3D printing our own topre/mx hybrid sliders for around 20usd a set?
We have been doing this for a while now. Matt3o's design is public on shapeways. Please note that to have them in good quality it costs $6.65 per slider. See this post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54942.msg1285177#msg1285177
My first post was not brand-loyalty-elitist anger. I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying for 200 USD :D
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you to decide what is "too expensive".
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most of coolermaster's target audience are gamers that want to buy parts for cheap. novatouch tkl is a great idea, but 200usd is too expensive.
Cooler Master's target audience for the Novatouch is not the gamer crowd. They consider this keyboard a high-end product aimed a keyboard enthusiasts and they very well know the keyboard will not sell like hot cakes.
If I had to complain about product pricing I would be ranting about the Blackwidow Chroma being sold for €180 way before the €200 price point of the Novatouch...
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[...] I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying it [if it wasn't too expensive]
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you [but the whole community] to decide what is "too expensive".
@rewind - i can tell you aren't a brand loyalist, and just because you say $200 is a good price to pay for mx/topre sliders it doesn't mean it isn't too expensive.
People that don't mind if some guy in Los Angeles, Brooklyn or some ghetto in a Southern state has mx keycaps on their topre board for cheap while they have spent 3 years buying boards for at least $200 won't get angry if CM products can't be priced so high. But, I reckon the psychological forces that are apparent here come from a misty-dark background of folks used to paying at least $200 for a board. "Why should they get such an advantage for cheap when I had to spend at least a billion dollars for my claim to peripheral superiority?" I actually want this market to be available to everyone.
It isn't up to one person, and CM will realize that when everyone is 3D printing their own sliders, they'll have to get off their cloud.
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[...] I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying it [if it wasn't too expensive]
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you [but the whole community] to decide what is "too expensive".
Once again, I don't think it is up to you to decide what is too expensive. You do not speak on behalf of the community. Hell, I am part of this community and I don't think it is too expensive.
@rewind - i can tell you aren't a brand loyalist, and just because you say $200 is a good price to pay for mx/topre sliders it doesn't mean it isn't too expensive.
While I understand where you are coming from [they are just pieces of plastic], I do think it's important for you to understand that a lot of people have literally dreamt of MX compatible Topre stems for years. Now when they are finally available - 200 USD is not that much compared to how much I/we/you've wanted this.
TL;DR gearlust
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[...] I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying it [if it wasn't too expensive]
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you [but the whole community] to decide what is "too expensive".
@rewind - i can tell you aren't a brand loyalist, and just because you say $200 is a good price to pay for mx/topre sliders it doesn't mean it isn't too expensive.
People that don't mind if some guy in Los Angeles, Brooklyn or some ghetto in a Southern state has mx keycaps on their topre board for cheap while they have spent 3 years buying boards for at least $200 won't get angry if CM products can't be priced so high. But, I reckon the psychological forces that are apparent here come from a misty-dark background of folks used to paying at least $200 for a board. "Why should they get such an advantage for cheap when I had to spend at least a billion dollars for my claim to peripheral superiority?" I actually want this market to be available to everyone.
It isn't up to one person, and CM will realize that when everyone is 3D printing their own sliders, they'll have to get off their cloud.
God, shut up. Three posts earlier in this thread, it was shown that 3d printing sliders is actually more expensive than buying a novatouch. We get it, you're looking for reasons to hate the novatouch and everyone involved in it.
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[...] I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying it [if it wasn't too expensive]
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you [but the whole community] to decide what is "too expensive".
@rewind - i can tell you aren't a brand loyalist, and just because you say $200 is a good price to pay for mx/topre sliders it doesn't mean it isn't too expensive.
People that don't mind if some guy in Los Angeles, Brooklyn or some ghetto in a Southern state has mx keycaps on their topre board for cheap while they have spent 3 years buying boards for at least $200 won't get angry if CM products can't be priced so high. But, I reckon the psychological forces that are apparent here come from a misty-dark background of folks used to paying at least $200 for a board. "Why should they get such an advantage for cheap when I had to spend at least a billion dollars for my claim to peripheral superiority?" I actually want this market to be available to everyone.
It isn't up to one person, and CM will realize that when everyone is 3D printing their own sliders, they'll have to get off their cloud.
did CM poop in your cereal or something?
you haven't even tried to the board to even know if it's good or bad.
you haven't even mentioned the only reason (that we know of) so to why this board is "expensive" (which is due to abs caps compared to RF's pbt dye subs)
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I had a CM case and it was horrible. Everything broke constantly, to the point where I was rope tieing my hard drives to the inside.
However, I bought a QFR and it was of great quality. Judging a product by it's brand will lead you to some problems.
The price is that high because of the sliders, tbh. This is geekhack. People spend upwards of 200 dollars on single novelty keycaps. Of course people will pay 200 for a keyboard with MX compatible sliders. And if they have their own cherry PBT keycap sets, they'll probably end up getting a similar experience to a realforce for about the same price.
Honestly, once other companies start releasing products with similar sliders, I expect prices to fall to typeheaven levels. If it weren't for the sliders, that would be the novatouch's biggest competition,
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I completely disagree.
[...]
Finally, the price is a tad high given that it has ABS keycaps and does not do too much extra, and it has to compete with for example the realforce keyboards. [...]
I appreciate your comment.
This might help put things into perspective. How many people do you think would be full of brand-loyalty-elitist anger if we started 3D printing our own topre/mx hybrid sliders for around 20usd a set?
We have been doing this for a while now. Matt3o's design is public on shapeways. Please note that to have them in good quality it costs $6.65 per slider. See this post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54942.msg1285177#msg1285177
My first post was not brand-loyalty-elitist anger. I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying for 200 USD :D
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you to decide what is "too expensive".
That's BS. " to have them in good quality it costs $6.65 per slider."
Where did this come from? It should cost no more than a few cents.
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I completely disagree.
[...]
Finally, the price is a tad high given that it has ABS keycaps and does not do too much extra, and it has to compete with for example the realforce keyboards. [...]
I appreciate your comment.
This might help put things into perspective. How many people do you think would be full of brand-loyalty-elitist anger if we started 3D printing our own topre/mx hybrid sliders for around 20usd a set?
We have been doing this for a while now. Matt3o's design is public on shapeways. Please note that to have them in good quality it costs $6.65 per slider. See this post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54942.msg1285177#msg1285177
My first post was not brand-loyalty-elitist anger. I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying for 200 USD :D
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you to decide what is "too expensive".
That's BS. " to have them in good quality it costs $6.65 per slider."
Where did this come from? It should cost no more than a few cents.
Perhaps it should, but he is referring to the actual price for them if you were to buy them now. .
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I completely disagree.
[...]
Finally, the price is a tad high given that it has ABS keycaps and does not do too much extra, and it has to compete with for example the realforce keyboards. [...]
I appreciate your comment.
This might help put things into perspective. How many people do you think would be full of brand-loyalty-elitist anger if we started 3D printing our own topre/mx hybrid sliders for around 20usd a set?
Hobbyist level 3d printers don't have the accuracy needed for that. And commercial 3d printing services would be very expensive for the numbers required. Injection molding would be the best bet but there you are looking at $12,000 worth of molds to be made before even a single stem is made.
My advice here is vote with your wallet. If you don't like it, then don't buy it.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
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That's only because you already have a billion keycap sets.
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That's only because you already have a billion keycap sets.
Well if I didn't and wanted replacement caps, MX cap sets are a million times easier to find...
And for the most part cheaper.
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That's only because you already have a billion keycap sets.
Well if I didn't and wanted replacement caps, MX cap sets are a million times easier to find...
And for the most part cheaper.
At which point you would have to factor in the additional cost.
Most topre's on the other hand already come with a set of very solid keycaps.
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That's only because you already have a billion keycap sets.
Well if I didn't and wanted replacement caps, MX cap sets are a million times easier to find...
And for the most part cheaper.
At which point you would have to factor in the additional cost.
Most topre's on the other hand already come with a set of very solid keycaps.
Depends what you're looking for really. Solid keycaps, sure, but very little room for customization. Doubleshot? Sorry, gotta go with MX. Custom doubleshots from group buys? Even more nope. Tacky novelty keycaps? (Why you would want them is beyond me, but they exist). Nope. Replacement keycaps under $100? Very hard to find unless you're buying for a HHKB.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
Personally I find both appealing , and can see how different people will make a different decision based on their preferences.
For example, some people might not be interested in replacing their keycaps, and therefore value the PBT stock caps on the realforce. While others have sets of keycaps in storage that they can't wait to put on a topre keyboard. Another thing is aesthetics. I find the body and profile of the realforce keyboards attractive, someone else may feel that way about the novatouch. I think that for a lot of people, that also factors into their decision.
Then there are also other characteristics that set them apart. The novatouch, if I am not mistaken has media keys, which some people find very important. The realforce's come in variable weight, silent versions amd 55g, and these are also features that might sway someone choosing between the two.
I don't think it is so cut and dry that you can say for every individual person one option would make them happier than the other. I would be happy with either. But given the choice I would opt for Realforce, especially for the keyboard I use at work.
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I completely disagree.
[...]
Finally, the price is a tad high given that it has ABS keycaps and does not do too much extra, and it has to compete with for example the realforce keyboards. [...]
I appreciate your comment.
This might help put things into perspective. How many people do you think would be full of brand-loyalty-elitist anger if we started 3D printing our own topre/mx hybrid sliders for around 20usd a set?
We have been doing this for a while now. Matt3o's design is public on shapeways. Please note that to have them in good quality it costs $6.65 per slider. See this post: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54942.msg1285177#msg1285177
My first post was not brand-loyalty-elitist anger. I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying for 200 USD :D
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you to decide what is "too expensive".
That's BS. " to have them in good quality it costs $6.65 per slider."
Where did this come from? It should cost no more than a few cents.
If you find any place cheaper that works well I will buy you a beer. (http://www.shapeways.com/model/1990125/topre-to-mx-slider-v2-0beta.html?materialId=61)
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[...] I have never owned a CM product. I'm just very impressed by their innovation. The research and development is mostly in the stabilized sliders, which I will be very happily buying it [if it wasn't too expensive]
EDIT: Regardless of this whole discussion, I don't think it is up to you [but the whole community] to decide what is "too expensive".
@rewind - i can tell you aren't a brand loyalist, and just because you say $200 is a good price to pay for mx/topre sliders it doesn't mean it isn't too expensive.
People that don't mind if some guy in Los Angeles, Brooklyn or some ghetto in a Southern state has mx keycaps on their topre board for cheap while they have spent 3 years buying boards for at least $200 won't get angry if CM products can't be priced so high. But, I reckon the psychological forces that are apparent here come from a misty-dark background of folks used to paying at least $200 for a board. "Why should they get such an advantage for cheap when I had to spend at least a billion dollars for my claim to peripheral superiority?" I actually want this market to be available to everyone.
It isn't up to one person, and CM will realize that when everyone is 3D printing their own sliders, they'll have to get off their cloud.
God, shut up. Three posts earlier in this thread, it was shown that 3d printing sliders is actually more expensive than buying a novatouch. We get it, you're looking for reasons to hate the novatouch and everyone involved in it.
I read this in the voice of my cranky 16 year old sister.
at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
Variety of weighted switches
Variety of stock colors
Variety of form factors
Dip switches
dat pbt vs abs
To be clear, I will honestly probably pick up a novatouch eventually (perhaps not at launch). These post of "OMG if you do not like the price then don't buy it" makes me giggle though. People talk/argue/complain about keyboard features. Price is definitely a relevant feature.
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If novatouch is $200 and you have to pay extra $80 to get decent keycaps, realforce is actually cheaper. Then, the difference is in details like stabilization, DIP switches, ABS spacebar etc.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
Variety of weighted switches
Variety of stock colors
Variety of form factors
Dip switches
dat pbt vs abs
Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps
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I think that we all pretty much agree. It is just that we have a tendency to focus on those features that matter most to ourselves.
For example, something I really like but virtually no one seems to care about on a tkl, is the inclusion of a staggered numpad layer. I am really comfortable with them, and miss them on a tkl. But I think most people thinknof them as useless.
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Guys I don't see them making titanium topre spacebars. I require the best possible quality under my thumb. WTB novatouch.
Also titanium spacebars shouldn't cost more than a few cents.
In fact, everything is too expensive. It should all be free.
And I demand rainbows and gumdrops and ponies for everyone.
Ponies made out of diamond.
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Why is it expensive? Because of R&D. Not just the stems had to be engineered There's a lot of interesting work that's gone on udner the hood of that thing, and a lot of it didn't start with Topre PCB and rubber.
It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it. They have to make that back somehow. Designing a new product and actually bringing it to market is very expensive. I think a lot of people underestimate that.
Is it " too expensive for you"? Perhaps. Everyone's got their pricepoint. A cheaper item will sell to more people. A more expensive will sell to less people, but at higher margin. You have to carefully determine the price to maximize profit and market captialization. If you personally fall outside that range, then it's not for you. That's how life and economics work.
If you want a serious discussion as to the costs of prototyping and manufacturing and desinging something like this, then we can have that discussion.
If you want to talk about Cooler Master's perceived brand qualities and how they apply to this product, we can have that discussion too. I think it would also involve a very important discussion as to why they might want to start to change their brand concept to reach a broader market.
If you want to complain about things being outside your budget, then go for it. Make a topic in off topic, or add a post to the "what makes you mad" topic or something.
If you want to make some sort of commentary about capitalism, I guess you can go for that as well.
But carrying on some sort of amalgamation of them doesn't make sense. Decide the topic you want to discuss and we'll do it.
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^
Well, I for one, am certainly we glad we went full circle on this one. :p
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If I don't already have a RF55g and some of the Topre keycaps and if the Novatouch came with 55g, this $200 price point is a no brainer to me (read insta-buy). The target market of this keyboard is the thirsty Topre lovers who are stuck with boring key caps selection. We paid $200 for RF, so why not for the Novatouch with those beautiful slider. They are selling one, on promotion in Singapore now for around US$220. I am SERIOUSLY contemplating it but I just had too many keyboards at this moment. SIGHHH!
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"It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it."
What makes this keyboard so expensive to design compared to the other thousands of keyboards out there, even more featured ones with programming and function layers, Bluetooth, back-lighting, interface software, media controls and macros?
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"It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it."
What makes this keyboard so expensive to design compared to the other thousands of keyboards out there, even more featured ones with programming and function layers, Bluetooth, back-lighting, interface software, media controls and macros?
Because the switches are NOT stand alone components that get soldered to a PCB. Plus engineering for the new case, firmware, electronics, etc, and marketing. Plus the biggest one would be tooling for manufacturing unless they went with an existing manufacturer. Plus licensing fees and such. Stuff adds up much faster than a lot of people realize.
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"It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it."
What makes this keyboard so expensive to design compared to the other thousands of keyboards out there, even more featured ones with programming and function layers, Bluetooth, back-lighting, interface software, media controls and macros?
People underestimate the cost of R&D + setting up a production line for something that seems as basic as a switch sliders. To give you an example, it cost Razer $380K solely in R&D to create the green color plastic tabs for the USB ports on their laptops. Creating and manufacturing hardware is an expensive endeavor.
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for those of us that like to think about the future, we may know that cm storm has announced their novatouch tkl based on the topre switch with mx-compatible stems. the abs plastic is a bunch of ****, but so is the price. $200 is way too much from a company like cooler master.
i mean, come on. it's cooler master. i bought a corsair case off this guy on craigslist and bartered down to $60 (saved $40) and he included these coolermaster fans with it. needless to say, i immediately took them out and replaced them with some quality pwm fans. the point? coolermaster has always been junk. all CM is doing with their novatouch at that price point is taking advantage of hipsters, not gamers.
most of coolermaster's target audience are gamers that want to buy parts for cheap. novatouch tkl is a great idea, but 200usd is too expensive.
Going to try and refrain from joining the 'bash train', but let's be honest.
No-one is forcing you to buy it and if you think they're cheap then that is fine as that is your own opinion. End of story really.
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$200 is more than a fair price for the novatouch. Can't afford it? Don't buy it
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Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps
I switched from a RF87U 55g as my daily driver to this Novatouch and I don't miss it. There's something about the 45g on this board that is so crisp. The sound you get from them with nice, thick PBT caps is amazing to me. I still enjoy my 55g board, and would definitely buy a 55g Novatouch when/if they get released. I'm glad I didn't wait for it though. This is definitely my favorite keyboard by far, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
The price argument definitely isn't worth all the fuss that's going on about it. Buy it or don't buy it, but IMO it's worth every penny.
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Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps
I switched from a RF87U 55g as my daily driver to this Novatouch and I don't miss it. There's something about the 45g on this board that is so crisp. The sound you get from them with nice, thick PBT caps is amazing to me. I still enjoy my 55g board, and would definitely buy a 55g Novatouch when/if they get released. I'm glad I didn't wait for it though. This is definitely my favorite keyboard by far, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
The price argument definitely isn't worth all the fuss that's going on about it. Buy it or don't buy it, but IMO it's worth every penny.
Do you know if you can silence it with Dental bands?
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Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps
I switched from a RF87U 55g as my daily driver to this Novatouch and I don't miss it. There's something about the 45g on this board that is so crisp. The sound you get from them with nice, thick PBT caps is amazing to me. I still enjoy my 55g board, and would definitely buy a 55g Novatouch when/if they get released. I'm glad I didn't wait for it though. This is definitely my favorite keyboard by far, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
The price argument definitely isn't worth all the fuss that's going on about it. Buy it or don't buy it, but IMO it's worth every penny.
Do you know if you can silence it with Dental bands?
You can use dental bands on it, but I'm not sure of the silencing effects of it. I wouldn't want to do anything like that because I love how it sounds.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS
Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS
Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.
It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS
Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.
It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....
It it good for sloths or gluttonies?
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS
Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.
It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....
Ehh, I guess so, but given that 1 person used both a PBT set and the GMK doubleshot set, I'm just wondering how it would compare.
I guess I have to try one for myself. I remember a korean site that had the blue and black font sets listed, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Anyone know?
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS
Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.
they shine a little slower than normal ABS caps i think
Then again i don't type frequently on my GMK sets lol.
I think my beige set is actually still in the bag...my Dolch is on my fullsize Filco that i don't use.
im currently typing with a SP DCS Graphite set that doesn't have much shine at all after using it for half a year.
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at that price just buy a realforce
there's no contest here
They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.
The CLEAR winner is the CM.
At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.
PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.
thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS
Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.
It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....
Ehh, I guess so, but given that 1 person used both a PBT set and the GMK doubleshot set, I'm just wondering how it would compare.
I guess I have to try one for myself. I remember a korean site that had the blue and black font sets listed, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Anyone know?
I'm not sure what set you are referring to, are you looking for GMK or PBT?
Also the only noticeable shine that I had on my GMK dolch daily driver set was the spacebar and a couple of the alphas.
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they shine a little slower than normal ABS caps i think
Then again i don't type frequently on my GMK sets lol.
I think my beige set is actually still in the bag...my Dolch is on my fullsize Filco that i don't use.
im currently typing with a SP DCS Graphite set that doesn't have much shine at all after using it for half a year.
Thanks for your input, just worried that about getting more ABS keycap sets besides stock keyboard keycaps will get too shiny after a while.
I already have granite, vortex pbt and penumbra so I guess I could work with one more.
I'm not sure what set you are referring to, are you looking for GMK or PBT?
Also the only noticeable shine that I had on my GMK dolch daily driver set was the spacebar and a couple of the alphas.
I'm looking for the GMK doubleshot sets. I remember their site had a picture with the blue font doubleshot keycaps as the listing.
edit: after doing a quick google translate it turns out it's kbdmod.com
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If it is too expensive, that "matter of opinion" will force cm to lower the price. This is how life and economics work. This market should be everyone's market, not just the few. So, no on the offer to discuss irrelevant aspects of cm, but yes to the offer to discuss the impact that psychology has on cm insofar as it relates to the ethics of pricing.
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They definitely don't shine, if you don't type on them.
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If it is too expensive, that "matter of opinion" will force cm to lower the price. This is how life and economics work. This market should be everyone's market, not just the few. So, no on the offer to discuss irrelevant aspects of cm, but yes to the offer to discuss the impact that psychology has on cm insofar as it relates to the ethics of pricing.
I'm not sure if it works that way... Honestly reading through this thread, it seems like you feel entitled to having it your way. Also feels like you have an actual hatred of CM as a company.
They definitely don't shine, if you don't type on them.
BEST ANSWER SO FAR :thumb:
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How much is it?
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How much is it?
$200 iirc
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How much is it?
$200 iirc
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