geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: pseudonym on Fri, 05 September 2014, 08:33:51
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Hi guys,
I'm new to the forums but I've read quite alot of threads. Excuse my rather bad english, it's not my native language.
According to my wife I have been obsessing for about 3 weeks about my new keyboard. Before I browsed this forum i have never heard of 75% keyboards, but now I think I am in love. I am typing this post right now on a Noppoo choc mini with MX browns and I am pretty satisfied with it. I really love the layout as well as the extra desk space (which is more than welcome since I had to downsize my desk due to a smaller flat). I do however still wonder about the Keycool 84, especially due to the fact that it's backlit. I also heard that it is easier to replace the keycaps on the Keycool because Noppoo uses an uncommon size for the space key.
Keycool boards with original Cherry switches are apparently rather rare nowadays, because they switched their whole production over to Kailh. I do however want to get original Cherry switches, preferably MX brown (MX blue drive my wife crazy) or maybe MX red will do too, but I have never tried reds. If we put backlit keys aside, which keyboard is better?
- availability of replacement keycap-sets
- durability
- keycap quality / overall quality
I paid 87 Euros for my Noppo choc mini including shipping. If I opt for a non-backlit KC 84 it will run me about 75 Euros + shipping + costums; if I take the backlit version it will run me about 93 Euros + shipping + customs. Either way it will be more expensive than the Noppoo choc mini (both with original Cherry MX switches).
Can you help me out here?
Thanks in advance!
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Hi guys,
I'm new to the forums but I've read quite alot of threads. Excuse my rather bad english, it's not my native language.
According to my wife I have been obsessing for about 3 weeks about my new keyboard. Before I browsed this forum i have never heard of 75% keyboards, but now I think I am in love. I am typing this post right now on a Noppoo choc mini with MX browns and I am pretty satisfied with it. I really love the layout as well as the extra desk space (which is more than welcome since I had to downsize my desk due to a smaller flat). I do however still wonder about the Keycool 84, especially due to the fact that it's backlit. I also heard that it is easier to replace the keycaps on the Keycool because Noppoo uses an uncommon size for the space key.
Keycool boards with original Cherry switches are apparently rather rare nowadays, because they switched their whole production over to Kailh. I do however want to get original Cherry switches, preferably MX brown (MX blue drive my wife crazy) or maybe MX red will do too, but I have never tried reds. If we put backlit keys aside, which keyboard is better?
- availability of replacement keycap-sets
- durability
- keycap quality / overall quality
I paid 87 Euros for my Noppo choc mini including shipping. If I opt for a non-backlit KC 84 it will run me about 75 Euros + shipping + costums; if I take the backlit version it will run me about 93 Euros + shipping + customs. Either way it will be more expensive than the Noppoo choc mini (both with original Cherry MX switches).
Can you help me out here?
Thanks in advance!
It all depends on what you want to be honest. I mean actually finding one of the older versions of the KC84 /w cherry keyswitches and without backlighting is near impossible, I cannot find them anywhere, I can't find them on amazon, mechanicalkeyboards, ebay etc, they're just not around anywhere any more.
Saying that though and even though I am a die hard Noppoo fan? I will have to give the edge to the KC to be honest, for a few main points.
- Although I prefer POM keycaps, KC keycaps are more easier replaced and have a standard spacebar
- KC has a metal backplate
- Less debouncing issues
- Longer life from experience
- Feels like a more sturdier product
Now the negatives at the moment is that like I said previously, you cannot find them and if you can, oh man, chances are they wont even have MX cherry switches any more.
But to answer your bullet points.
- Availability of replacement keycap-sets
Keycools keycaps are easily replaced because of the fact that you can use a standard spacebar, whereas on the Noppoo you cannot, so that's a bonus if you're into keyboard modding and making it suit your needs in terms of customisability.
- Durability
In my personal experience I've owned 2 x original KC boards and both of them were absolutely fantastic in terms of durability. Not only do they feel great to type on, they're just made better than the Noppoo and that's a little sad in my opinion. I've had 3 Noppoos, the first one broke due to key-bouncing, the second arrived DOA and the third one was a replacement for the second and it's starting to fail me now, although I haven't had any bouncing issues on this keyboard in 3-4 days, so that's always a good sign.
- Keycap quality / overall quality
This is where it starts to become rather subjective to be honest, I love noppoos keycaps, I think they are superior and I would just rather type on them as opposed to Keycools keycaps. But that's because I just prefer POM over PBT, but that's just a personal preference. But if I'm honest, both keycaps are of a very high standard, although the key-printing on the side of the noppoo tends to wear away rather quickly, so that's somewhat of an annoyance if you're OCD like me, I just ended up scraping off all of the side letting, didn't need it anyway, I already have all the shortcuts memorised and what not.
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Why do you want different keycaps? Noppoo Choc Mini already has thick Cherry-profile POM set out of the box. You can put Cherry doubleshots, dyesubs or lasered caps (PBT/POM) on it and profiles will match.
If you want to buy aftermarket keycaps for looks, get a keyboard with a different layout. Either 60% (e.g., Poker), or tenkeyless (like QFR). Then you'll have 100% compatibility. Why I mention this? Because keycaps that aren't uniform profile (DSA) wouldn't fit the nav column anyway: lettering or profiles (i.e. height, angle) wouldn't match.
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Why do you want different keycaps? Noppoo Choc Mini already has thick Cherry-profile POM set out of the box. You can put Cherry doubleshots, dyesubs or lasered caps (PBT/POM) on it and profiles will match.
If you want to buy aftermarket keycaps for looks, get a keyboard with a different layout. Either 60% (e.g., Poker), or tenkeyless (like QFR). Then you'll have 100% compatibility. Why I mention this? Because keycaps that aren't uniform profile (DSA) wouldn't fit the nav column anyway: lettering or profiles (i.e. height, angle) wouldn't match.
Lasered POM will look like **** after several months of use, so replacing keys might still be a good idea. Granite is one of the few keycap sets that has the option to fit a 75% board perfectly. Not only because of the profile, but it also has options for printed keys for all the awkward 75% sizes.
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Yes, that's the "looks" part. OTOH, POM is more durable and the PLUM/Cherry keycaps are significantly thicker than DSA.
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Why do you want different keycaps? Noppoo Choc Mini already has thick Cherry-profile POM set out of the box. You can put Cherry doubleshots, dyesubs or lasered caps (PBT/POM) on it and profiles will match.
If you want to buy aftermarket keycaps for looks, get a keyboard with a different layout. Either 60% (e.g., Poker), or tenkeyless (like QFR). Then you'll have 100% compatibility. Why I mention this? Because keycaps that aren't uniform profile (DSA) wouldn't fit the nav column anyway: lettering or profiles (i.e. height, angle) wouldn't match.
Lasered POM will look like **** after several months of use, so replacing keys might still be a good idea. Granite is one of the few keycap sets that has the option to fit a 75% board perfectly. Not only because of the profile, but it also has options for printed keys for all the awkward 75% sizes.
From what I recall, Granite did NOT have a 5.5x spacebar. NO set that I have ever seen has a 5.5x spacebar.
I say get a Keycool 84 if you can find one with Cherry switches. If not, buy a TKL like the KUL ES-87. Not much bigger. Or a 60% like the Poker II. Not much smaller and the same functions, just a few more on the Fn layer instead of default Completely standard keycap sizes so you can change the look and feel of your board easily. I find text editing especially much easier on a TKL, but I guess it depends on how you use the board as to what you prefer.
The Keycool 84 and 87 come with very decent standard keycaps (medium thickness PBT in OEM profile), not quite as nice as the Choc Mini ones if you're like me and like thick POM and Cherry profile, though, but a lot better than the thin ABS that comes stock on most boards.
One problem with getting a backlit board is they usually ship with thin ABS keycaps, I think even the Keycool backlit boards do that.
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apple
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KC84
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Hey guys, thanks for your replies! Apparently there are no more KC 84 available with original Cherry MX switches - I misread the available quantity of mechanicalkeyboards.com. Rather embarrassing but hat pretty much concludes my search for answers.
I've been using my Noppoo choc mini for a good weak now and I already see some lettering wearing off. Right now I am debating if I should just send it bac, close the 84-key chapter and move to a standard TKL board. If I try to imagine how the keyboard will look after 2 years of heavy use... without being able to replace the keycaps. Gives me the chills. Besides the lettering the keycaps feel great though. What a shame...
Should I just go for a Ducky Shine 3 TKL or anything like that?
(I have noticed there is another thread that uses my first post as the starting post - I am absolutely not responsible for that!)
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I don't see a problem here. I bought mine about two years ago and some lettering has faded a bit, but… touch typing! If you care about legends, throw some Cherry (or Cherry replica) keycaps on it.
I'd be more worried about reliability.
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I'd be more worried about reliability.
How do you mean?
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Read the first reply in the thread.
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I am pretty sure other manufacturers have DOA issues as well. The only other stories of failing Noppoos I've found seem to be about the pre-2013 version. Don't get me wrong, I somehow get a strange feeling when I think about how long this keyboard will work flawlessly. It just seems there is no other option for me if I want to have a 84 keys board. I do not want to get a keyboard with Kailh switches.
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Read it once again: debouncing issues.