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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: nubbinator on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:23:07

Title: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:23:07: Kidding with the title, but I think I'm starting to get it, at least with the HHKB. I just don't understand the fanaticism still. What drives the almost religious fervor around it?
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Halverson on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:28:38: Rubberdomes, mechs are a waste of money
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:30:19: With its reliance on a rubber sheet, the big advantage of lifetime use of a single Topre keyboard would be that the keyboard would age as you do. It would start out supple and over time get old and crotchety. By the time you hit retirement, your keyboard would basically be retired too, and just as your knees start giving out and your hands start uncontrollably shaking, your keyboard would start refusing to actuate some keys at all.

Better plan ahead by saving grandpa’s model M for your grandchildren to type on when you are stuck dictating everything because your Topre board won’t type.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: digi on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:30:34: use them both =) cupped rubber at work, mx at home!
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Grim Fandango on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:32:58: 1. Not as loud. So I can use it anywhere.

2. Feels nice.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:52:22: Not sure I could do it. Might have to smuggle in my IBM XT once in a while to get my capacitive buckling spring fix.

But if it could be only one, and a Topre, I suppose it would have to be one of my HHKBs. With the HHKB, it is not so much the Topre switches as it is the form factor, style, elegance, symmetry, design, and layout of the board. I also like its dye-sub PBT keycaps. Strictly speaking the HHKB is not a Topre board, it is a Fujitsu with Topre switches.

So, if it had to be a Topre board through and through, my next choice would be my Topre RF 87u 55g. I like the simple classic elegance and the smooth, solid, quiet sound and feel of the board. It also has beautiful dye-sub PBT keycaps. It gets the job done with understated sophistication while at the same time being highly pleasurable to look at, hear, and feel under the fingertips.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: terrpn on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:54:31: it wouldn't be..............sorry :rolleyes:
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 15 September 2014, 18:21:36: Ergodox.. because I've already decided.. (http://eemoticons.net/Upload/big%20onion/th_46.gif)
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 15 September 2014, 18:32:32: it would be the KUL
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: jameslr on Mon, 15 September 2014, 18:41:43: At this time it would have to be a realforce 55g. If they end up making a novatouch 55g with dip switches then I would use that.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: FrostyToast on Mon, 15 September 2014, 19:02:03: I like the tactile pop of the switches much more than clears. The sound is so very audible which provides wonderful feedback, but it is a very nice "thock" compared to the click that you would have to get with other keys.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: ComradeSniper on Mon, 15 September 2014, 19:09:08: For me it's a combo of the HHKB layout being awesome and also the switches feeling great. Now that I've put 55g domes in my HHKB, I would be content with it being my only keyboard.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 15 September 2014, 20:18:54: Because when you get old and weak you will only be able to lift a cheap plastic keyboard instead of a real solid model with plenty of steel in it.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 15 September 2014, 20:48:15: I'd pick Cherry board..only because I hate using Topre for gaming and I'm perfectly fine with Cherry for typing..

BUT

I strongly prefer Topre for typing....which is why I use it for work, etc...and Cherry for gaming...
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: kalrand on Mon, 15 September 2014, 21:40:27: I think you misspelled "buckling spring".
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: cherpalla on Mon, 15 September 2014, 21:56:34: I use an HHKB at work, because I much prefer typing on Topre over all of the Tactile cherry switches. For my home PC (gamebox basically), I use linear switches, so Cherry MX Reds/Blacks it is.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Novus on Mon, 15 September 2014, 21:59:09: cuz cherry mx peasants suck
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: GL1TCH3D on Mon, 15 September 2014, 22:50:57: Cherry mx is too mainstream.

(http://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/upload/morse_key1_r_x.jpg)

Just need to get a converter and you're set
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: bazh on Mon, 15 September 2014, 23:19:16: Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 15 September 2014, 18:21:36
Ergodox.. because I've already decided..
Show Image
(http://eemoticons.net/Upload/big%20onion/th_46.gif)

but, but... what if you can have ErgoThorpe :(
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 15 September 2014, 23:29:26: I do really like the 55g topre switches on my realforce because they are so snappy and soft, I can't really describe it. Although if I had to only use one keyboard/switch for the rest of my life, it would have to be some really nice broken in lubed black switches with ~65-70g springs in them.

Topre is too much hype, that isn't to say that they aren't nice, but that hype... (perhaps if I liked tactile switches a lot my opinion would be different)
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 15 September 2014, 23:31:14: Why would it be Topre?

Are you assuming that I would select Topre? Or are you telling me that I have to use a Topre keyboard for the rest of my life and would I please invent something to justify it?

Actually I'd probably be quite happy to use RealForce 87U 55g uniform.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Novus on Tue, 16 September 2014, 03:28:25: Why wouldn't it be?
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 16 September 2014, 04:12:54: Quote from: nubbinator on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:23:07
Kidding with the title, but I think I'm starting to get it, at least with the HHKB. I just don't understand the fanaticism still. What drives the almost religious fervor around it?

Attempting to justify the fact that you spent so much on a rubber dome board? I don't know, I don't like Topre, so I certainly don't get it.

If you were to say "Model F" or "full custom with your favourite modified MX switch" instead, well... different story.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Novus on Tue, 16 September 2014, 04:15:17: Quote from: Oobly on Tue, 16 September 2014, 04:12:54
Quote from: nubbinator on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:23:07
Kidding with the title, but I think I'm starting to get it, at least with the HHKB. I just don't understand the fanaticism still. What drives the almost religious fervor around it?

Attempting to justify the fact that you spent so much on a rubber dome board? I don't know, I don't like Topre, so I certainly don't get it.

If you were to say "Model F" or "full custom with your favourite modified MX switch" instead, well... different story.

Objection, argumentative.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: snoopy on Tue, 16 September 2014, 06:36:34: I think it would be a Model F for me.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 06:45:15: because then i could get a hhkb type s and jerklecirc on gh and be absolved of all my sins by the elitists
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: strict on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:17:50: Quote from: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 06:45:15
because then i could get a hhkb type s and jerklecirc on gh and be absolved of all my sins by the elitists

Holy annoying signature
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:29:35: Quote from: strict on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:17:50
Quote from: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 06:45:15
because then i could get a hhkb type s and jerklecirc on gh and be absolved of all my sins by the elitists

Holy annoying signature
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/0c31531d4ac36a5daa6045033182adac/tumblr_nao9vrKMcO1rby04wo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Lurch on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:43:32: Quote from: strict on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:17:50
Quote from: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 06:45:15
because then i could get a hhkb type s and jerklecirc on gh and be absolved of all my sins by the elitists

Holy annoying signature
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:56:10: [attachimg=1]
now go back to the topic i didnt post to derail with my sig i posted to derail with jabs at hhkb nerds
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Lurch on Tue, 16 September 2014, 10:06:03: Quote from: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:56:10
(Attachment Link)
now go back to the topic i didnt post to derail with my sig i posted to derail with jabs at hhkb nerds
Herb life best life?

On topic, Grim Fandango put it well, "feels nice"
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 10:21:31: Quote from: Lurch on Tue, 16 September 2014, 10:06:03
Quote from: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:56:10
(Attachment Link)
now go back to the topic i didnt post to derail with my sig i posted to derail with jabs at hhkb nerds
Herb life best life?

On topic, Grim Fandango put it well, "feels nice"
nice

true topre feels nice but imo topre would be my choice, it's too soft and quited
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Xowie on Tue, 16 September 2014, 18:21:06: The good feeling of oneness with cup rubber.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 16 September 2014, 18:57:31: Recently, there have been a number of different threads here on GH and over on DT about Topre boards and comparing Topre with others.

I saw one thread comparing and contrasting the HHKB Pro 2 with the Poker II. Poker II advocates were challenging HHKB Pro 2 aficionados who also owned Poker IIs to remap their Pokers to a HHKB layout. I did this on my Poker II with Karabiner remapping software for the Mac, remapping Right Control as Fn and setting up the HHKB pattern of arrow keys. This was imperfect, because it left two dead keys on the Poker: the original Fn and Pn keys. In any event, the remapping on the Poker II was not too bad. However, the feel and sound of the Poker II was just not as pleasing as the feel and sound of the HHKB (or the RF, for that matter). In my view, a Cherry mx board is just not in the same league as a Topre-switch board. It was a relief to get back to my HHKB Pro 2 and RF 87u 55g boards -- the typing experience with the Topres is much better. Moreover, I find that my speed and accuracy are better on the Topre boards than on any Cherry mx board that I own.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Binge on Tue, 16 September 2014, 21:29:51: The layout is key with any keyboard. I would feel really terrible using the same keyboard all the time unless somehow I found my prefect switch. I'm really close with MX whites.

After getting into the ergo boards there isn't a cell in my body that wants staggered any longer. When I did rock staggered layouts 24/7 the hhkb appealed to me greatly. I love alphas, mods, fn, and all the desk space a 60% brings to the table.

So yeah I dunno if I could commit. I do know I love lightweight and smart layouts which are best achieved with a fully programmable controller.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 16 September 2014, 23:31:02: Quote from: Binge on Tue, 16 September 2014, 21:29:51
After getting into the ergo boards there isn't a cell in my body that wants staggered any longer. When I did rock staggered layouts 24/7 the hhkb appealed to me greatly. I love alphas, mods, fn, and all the desk space a 60% brings to the table.
What kind of ergo board do you use?

Edit: this one apparently:
(http://i.imgur.com/hFamQRs.jpg)

Nice palmrest!
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 17 September 2014, 00:54:11: Quote from: strict on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:17:50
Quote from: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 06:45:15
because then i could get a hhkb type s and jerklecirc on gh and be absolved of all my sins by the elitists

Holy annoying signature

I turned signatures off - makes things a whole lot cleaner :p
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Binge on Wed, 17 September 2014, 02:49:19: Quote from: jacobolus on Tue, 16 September 2014, 23:31:02
Quote from: Binge on Tue, 16 September 2014, 21:29:51
After getting into the ergo boards there isn't a cell in my body that wants staggered any longer. When I did rock staggered layouts 24/7 the hhkb appealed to me greatly. I love alphas, mods, fn, and all the desk space a 60% brings to the table.
What kind of ergo board do you use?

Edit: this one apparently:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/hFamQRs.jpg)

Nice palmrest!
This the kinesis advantage and the truly ergonomic keyboard.

Noko makes the best wrist rests.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 17 September 2014, 03:06:22: Binge brings up an important point. For an "endgame" keyboard I can't choose a standard layout board.

I use this (Mark II is a work-in-progress):

[attach=1]

It's not Topre.... Cherry MX is the king of "customisability". It use a mix of trampoline and latex modded Browns and 62g ErgoClears with medium thickness PBT and POM caps.

You can't fine tune the feeling of Topre switches to personal taste like you can with MX.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Wed, 17 September 2014, 09:41:19: Topre boards usually feel more quality in general; which goes with the cost. But that being said, they barely feel different than a high end rubber dome to me. They are barely mechanical(feedback) feeling at all when compared to buckling spring or MX greens.

I seriously can't understand the love for cupped rubber+.

The "thonk" sounds nice, I will give you that. But it's not enough for me.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Hypersphere on Wed, 17 September 2014, 10:19:15: Detractors of Topre-switch keyboards tend to use descriptions such as, "it seems like nothing more than a high-end rubber dome to me." I have often wondered what is meant by "high-end rubber dome". Are there any examples of such a keyboard other than those that employ Topre switches?

Having compared many different types of keyboard switches in addition to Topre, including Alps of various kinds, Cherry mx of various kinds, membrane buckling springs, capacitive buckling springs, beam springs, Hi-Tek space invaders (tactile and clicky), Matias tactile clicky, Honeywell Hall effect, various linear switches in terminal keyboards, and rubber dome keyboards packaged with modern PCs, I find that the aural and tactile feedback of Topre switches is distinctive. To me, the tactile feedback from a Topre switch might be likened to that of a weighted piano key on a "real" piano (as opposed to an electronic piano keyboard).

I happen to like Topre switches, especially the heavier variety in my RF 87ub 55g, but I would not expect everyone to like them. Moreover, Topre is not the only switch that I like.

Periodically, I do a reality check by rotating through various keyboards in my collection to see if my preferences have changed. I really want to like Cherry mx switches, because I wish to take advantage of the abundant styles, colors, and textures of keycaps for them. Unfortunately, each time I try or re-try a Cherry mx board I am disappointed, and returning to a Topre-switch board is refreshing. In fairness, returning to a buckling spring keyboard (especially a capacitive buckling spring, such as the IBM XT) is also refreshing. Despite the differences between my IBM XT and RF 87ug 55g, I like each of these equally well, and either one is greatly preferable to any Cherry mx board I have tried.

We keyboard enthusiasts are fortunate to live in the midst of many excellent choices among keyboards and switch types. There is also no accounting for taste, and advocates of one particular switch or another will likely continue to remain baffled by the contrasting preferences of others.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 17 September 2014, 14:50:33: Quote from: Hypersphere on Wed, 17 September 2014, 10:19:15
Periodically, I do a reality check by rotating through various keyboards in my collection to see if my preferences have changed. I really want to like Cherry mx switches, because I wish to take advantage of the abundant styles, colors, and textures of keycaps for them. Unfortunately, each time I try or re-try a Cherry mx board I am disappointed, and returning to a Topre-switch board is refreshing.
You’re right, Topre switches are distinctive, and while they’re not for everyone (e.g. me), they do feel very solid and well made.

You’re also right, MX switches are pretty uninspiring to type on. They just happen to be more common because everyone else got pushed out of the mechanical keyboard switch game circa 1995.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: MJ45 on Wed, 17 September 2014, 15:09:00: Quote from: rowdy on Wed, 17 September 2014, 00:54:11
Quote from: strict on Tue, 16 September 2014, 08:17:50
Quote from: paicrai on Tue, 16 September 2014, 06:45:15
because then i could get a hhkb type s and jerklecirc on gh and be absolved of all my sins by the elitists

Holy annoying signature

I turned signatures off - makes things a whole lot cleaner :p

Thanks, rowdy,
I'm glad you brought that option to my attention!!
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 17 September 2014, 15:32:04: Quote from: Oobly on Wed, 17 September 2014, 03:06:22
Binge brings up an important point. For an "endgame" keyboard I can't choose a standard layout board.

I use this (Mark II is a work-in-progress):

(Attachment Link)

It's not Topre.... Cherry MX is the king of "customisability". It use a mix of trampoline and latex modded Browns and 62g ErgoClears with medium thickness PBT and POM caps.

You can't fine tune the feeling of Topre switches to personal taste like you can with MX.
~~oobly shut the **** up we've seen your ergocock~~
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Novus on Wed, 17 September 2014, 15:37:11: Quote from: paicrai on Wed, 17 September 2014, 15:32:04
Quote from: Oobly on Wed, 17 September 2014, 03:06:22
Binge brings up an important point. For an "endgame" keyboard I can't choose a standard layout board.

I use this (Mark II is a work-in-progress):

(Attachment Link)

It's not Topre.... Cherry MX is the king of "customisability". It use a mix of trampoline and latex modded Browns and 62g ErgoClears with medium thickness PBT and POM caps.

You can't fine tune the feeling of Topre switches to personal taste like you can with MX.
~~oobly shut the **** up we've seen your ergocock~~

QFT
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 18 September 2014, 15:43:40: Quote from: the1onewolf on Wed, 17 September 2014, 15:37:11
Quote from: paicrai on Wed, 17 September 2014, 15:32:04
Quote from: Oobly on Wed, 17 September 2014, 03:06:22
Binge brings up an important point. For an "endgame" keyboard I can't choose a standard layout board.

I use this (Mark II is a work-in-progress):

(Attachment Link)

It's not Topre.... Cherry MX is the king of "customisability". It use a mix of trampoline and latex modded Browns and 62g ErgoClears with medium thickness PBT and POM caps.

You can't fine tune the feeling of Topre switches to personal taste like you can with MX.
~~oobly shut the **** up we've seen your ergocock~~

QFT

(http://3wordsfor365.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/jealousy-jealous-demotivational-poster-12683634781.jpg?w=540&h=452)

(http://rdkreative.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/keep-calm-cause-haters-gonna-hate-5.png?w=487)
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: pbtforever on Thu, 18 September 2014, 15:54:45: Because the keys are PBT. :))
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 18 September 2014, 16:13:07: Quote from: jacobolus on Wed, 17 September 2014, 14:50:33
Quote from: Hypersphere on Wed, 17 September 2014, 10:19:15
Periodically, I do a reality check by rotating through various keyboards in my collection to see if my preferences have changed. I really want to like Cherry mx switches, because I wish to take advantage of the abundant styles, colors, and textures of keycaps for them. Unfortunately, each time I try or re-try a Cherry mx board I am disappointed, and returning to a Topre-switch board is refreshing.
You’re right, Topre switches are distinctive, and while they’re not for everyone (e.g. me), they do feel very solid and well made.

You’re also right, MX switches are pretty uninspiring to type on. They just happen to be more common because everyone else got pushed out of the mechanical keyboard switch game circa 1995.

Yes, it is unfortunate sometimes how market forces operate. Regarding switches, I would rather type on Topre, IBM capacitive buckling spring, IBM membrane buckling spring, IBM beam spring, Alps blue Monterey, Matias tactile/clicky, or NMB Hi-Tek black space invader switches than on any Cherry mx switch I have tried.

However, I have yet to try Cherry mx clears -- I've ordered a Kul ES-87 with clears, and I am eager for it to arrive so that I can try it out.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 18 September 2014, 17:05:18: Quote from: Hypersphere on Thu, 18 September 2014, 16:13:07
Quote from: jacobolus on Wed, 17 September 2014, 14:50:33
Quote from: Hypersphere on Wed, 17 September 2014, 10:19:15
Periodically, I do a reality check by rotating through various keyboards in my collection to see if my preferences have changed. I really want to like Cherry mx switches, because I wish to take advantage of the abundant styles, colors, and textures of keycaps for them. Unfortunately, each time I try or re-try a Cherry mx board I am disappointed, and returning to a Topre-switch board is refreshing.
You’re right, Topre switches are distinctive, and while they’re not for everyone (e.g. me), they do feel very solid and well made.

You’re also right, MX switches are pretty uninspiring to type on. They just happen to be more common because everyone else got pushed out of the mechanical keyboard switch game circa 1995.

Yes, it is unfortunate sometimes how market forces operate. Regarding switches, I would rather type on Topre, IBM capacitive buckling spring, IBM membrane buckling spring, IBM beam spring, Alps blue Monterey, Matias tactile/clicky, or NMB Hi-Tek black space invader switches than on any Cherry mx switch I have tried.

However, I have yet to try Cherry mx clears -- I've ordered a Kul ES-87 with clears, and I am eager for it to arrive so that I can try it out.

Ergo Clears and Ghost Blacks are love.

Err, I mean Topre 5ever.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 18 September 2014, 17:12:25: @nubbinator: A "ghost black" is a black switch (linear) with a clear spring, correct? Therefore, a ghost black would be a lighter version of a black linear switch, whereas a clear is a tactile non-clicky switch. Although Topre and Cherry are not really comparable, I would suppose that a Cherry mx clear might be the closest Cherry mx switch to a Topre. In any event, I shall soon be able to test a keyboard with clears for myself.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 18 September 2014, 17:18:08: Quote from: Hypersphere on Thu, 18 September 2014, 17:12:25
@nubbinator: A "ghost black" is a black switch (linear) with a clear spring, correct? Therefore, a ghost black would be a lighter version of a black linear switch, whereas a clear is a tactile non-clicky switch. Although Topre and Cherry are not really comparable, I would suppose that a Cherry mx clear might be the closest Cherry mx switch to a Topre. In any event, I shall soon be able to test a keyboard with clears for myself.

Yeah. It's lighter at the top, heavier at the bottom. My favorite linear switch. Clears are much heavier. Ergo Clears are closet, but the feel is still very different.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: strict on Thu, 18 September 2014, 17:18:48: Quote from: Hypersphere on Thu, 18 September 2014, 17:12:25
@nubbinator: A "ghost black" is a black switch (linear) with a clear spring, correct? Therefore, a ghost black would be a lighter version of a black linear switch, whereas a clear is a tactile non-clicky switch. Although Topre and Cherry are not really comparable, I would suppose that a Cherry mx clear might be the closest Cherry mx switch to a Topre. In any event, I shall soon be able to test a keyboard with clears for myself.

You're correct, a ghost black is a black stem with a clear spring. However, the clear spring is heavier than the black spring and also has a slightly different force curve. A clear spring has a steeper force curve, meaning it starts out lighter than a black spring but gets heavier faster.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Hypersphere on Thu, 18 September 2014, 18:49:45: Thanks for the clarifications and amplifications on the "ghost black" hybrid switch!
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 19 September 2014, 01:04:48: I do concede that Topre sliders move more smoothly than those in new MX switches. All the new MX switches I own seem to be at least a little bit "grindy", although it goes away after a good wear-in.

I stick with my verdict, though, that currently there are no Topre boards that I could consider using as "the one" for the rest of my life. Once you've tried a proper ergo board, you can't think of a "normal" layout board as the ultimate no matter how good the switches are. It's very hard to make a custom board with Topre switches and there are no ergonomic layout boards using Topre switches. So for now, I'm a MX guy. Not to mention that I love to modify my switches and tune them to my taste. Again, not possible with Topre. Then there are keycaps. They can change both the look and the feel of the board, due to material, profile and mass. How many different aftermarket keycap sets are there for Topre? What can I say, I like to have options.

Quote from: nubbinator on Thu, 18 September 2014, 17:05:18
...
Ergo Clears and Ghost Blacks are love.

Err, I mean Topre 5ever.

+1. Ghost Blacks are my favourite linear switch. Favourite tactile are ErgoClears, 2nd favourite are "Panda" Clears (Clears with Black spring). I don't like MX clicky switches, as I feel the click is rather contrived and high-pitched. Sounds rather cheap to my ears and I don't like the hysteresis they have, too.

I have yet to try an Alps that I really like (old Apple IIc and a calculator with Alps switches are all I've tested so far, though). Going to get some Matias clicky and silent switches to try, but I think it will take a lot to beat the customised Clears I'm currently using.

I may also end up getting a Topre board for experimenting with (probably a Realforce 55g). xwhatsit has inspired me to try some capacitive sensing experiments and I'd like to try making a Topre version of my ergo layout for the challenge and to see how it feels. :D
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: epzy on Fri, 19 September 2014, 01:06:42: hå-hå-kå-be
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 19 September 2014, 01:30:31: Quote from: epzy on Fri, 19 September 2014, 01:06:42
hå-hå-kå-be

hå-hå-kå-be to pe-är-o?

... hvorfor Topre?
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Macsmasher on Fri, 19 September 2014, 02:54:32: Well, everybody's Topre experience is different and very personal. In my case, when I type on my Topre boards, I can hear Shania Twain sing her hit single, "I Want to Be On my Knees Under Your Desk". It's hard to explain...but while coding throughout the day, her golden voice, dripping with sensuality, caresses my ear drums while my fingers tickle her boobies as I type.

Don't tell anybody about this. I'll deny all of it unless you have pictures...
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 19 September 2014, 07:41:49: Quote from: Macsmasher on Fri, 19 September 2014, 02:54:32
Well, everybody's Topre experience is different and very personal. In my case, when I type on my Topre boards, I can hear Shania Twain sing her hit single, "I Want to Be On my Knees Under Your Desk". It's hard to explain...but while coding throughout the day, her golden voice, dripping with sensuality, caresses my ear drums while my fingers tickle her boobies as I type.

Don't tell anybody about this. I'll deny all of it unless you have pictures...

Well now I'm feeling pretty good about my Realforce being delivered on Tuesday.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: frosty on Fri, 19 September 2014, 23:35:38: my poker 2 :-)
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:26:38: Quote from: frosty on Fri, 19 September 2014, 23:35:38
my poker 2 :-)

You have Topre switches in your Poker? :eek:
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: frosty on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:33:20: Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:26:38
Quote from: frosty on Fri, 19 September 2014, 23:35:38
my poker 2 :-)

You have Topre switches in your Poker? :eek:
I don't like tactility :eek:

Lubed 62g reds for nowwww, waiting for my vintage blacks from Lurch! ;)
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:36:22: Quote from: frosty on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:33:20

Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:26:38
Quote from: frosty on Fri, 19 September 2014, 23:35:38
my poker 2 :-)

You have Topre switches in your Poker? :eek:
I don't like tactility :eek:

Lubed 62g reds for nowwww, waiting for my vintage blacks from Lurch! ;)

Vintage blacks are smooooth :D
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:39:19: Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:36:22
Quote from: frosty on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:33:20

Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:26:38
Quote from: frosty on Fri, 19 September 2014, 23:35:38
my poker 2 :-)

You have Topre switches in your Poker? :eek:
I don't like tactility :eek:

Lubed 62g reds for nowwww, waiting for my vintage blacks from Lurch! ;)

Vintage blacks are smooooth :D

#overrated #hypetrainderailed
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: demik on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:41:59: Quote from: nubbinator on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:39:19
Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:36:22
Quote from: frosty on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:33:20

Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:26:38
Quote from: frosty on Fri, 19 September 2014, 23:35:38
my poker 2 :-)

You have Topre switches in your Poker? :eek:
I don't like tactility :eek:

Lubed 62g reds for nowwww, waiting for my vintage blacks from Lurch! ;)

Vintage blacks are smooooth :D

#overrated #hypetrainderailed

vintagefrican americans*
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:55:41: Quote from: demik on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:41:59
Quote from: nubbinator on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:39:19
Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:36:22
Quote from: frosty on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:33:20

Quote from: rowdy on Sat, 20 September 2014, 00:26:38
Quote from: frosty on Fri, 19 September 2014, 23:35:38
my poker 2 :-)

You have Topre switches in your Poker? :eek:
I don't like tactility :eek:

Lubed 62g reds for nowwww, waiting for my vintage blacks from Lurch! ;)

Vintage blacks are smooooth :D

#overrated #hypetrainderailed

vintagefrican americans*

They prefer the term multigenerational switches of color.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: frosty on Sat, 20 September 2014, 01:21:44: I like it baby-ass smooth :P

hey hey hey what's with the colours u all know rainbow is superior
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 20 September 2014, 09:31:55: You can register your vote on the Topre-switch keyboard poll that I started recently:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62923.msg1474738#msg1474738
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: Fragil1ty on Sat, 20 September 2014, 22:41:29: Quote from: nubbinator on Mon, 15 September 2014, 17:23:07
Kidding with the title, but I think I'm starting to get it, at least with the HHKB. I just don't understand the fanaticism still. What drives the almost religious fervor around it?

It wouldn't. MX > Topre imo.

But everyone is different and we all have different opinions and preferences. I love MX reds and I think this is going to be the switch for me for a very, very long time, maybe there's others out there that feel the exact same way but about topre keyswitches.

/thread.
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 20 September 2014, 22:45:19: (http://i.imgur.com/Pdso7Q9.jpg)
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: pbtforever on Wed, 24 September 2014, 11:13:31: Clack

Oops wrong thread ignore
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: dgreekstallion on Thu, 25 September 2014, 15:45:22: Quote from: fohat.digs on Mon, 15 September 2014, 20:18:54
Because when you get old and weak you will only be able to lift a cheap plastic keyboard instead of a real solid model with plenty of steel in it.

Like our Model Fs? You know I bet in a home invasion, I can just whack the s**t out of the robber with my aircraft carrier...
Title: Re: If you could only use one keyboard the rest rest of your life, why would it be Topre?
Post by: johndavis33 on Thu, 25 September 2014, 16:39:57: Because they feel like boobs.

I can't think of many things I particularly like about topre switches. They are very snappy on the release, which is nice. The main reason I can't use lighter MX switches is because they barely apply any force at all to your fingers as you lift them up.
I also can't think of anything I really don't like about topre switches. They're just rather unassuming to me.

But if I were to use one keyboard for the rest of my life, it would have a trackpoint.