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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: pmyshkin on Fri, 19 June 2009, 19:39:10
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After seeing the incredible Humble Hacker Keyboard (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?t=6292), and ever being the cheapskate, I started to get the idea that the cherry G86-63400 POS-type keyboard would be an excellent board to customize. However, the cherry site (http://www.cherry.de/english/products/compact_keyboards_SPOS_G86-63400.htm) doesn't provide too much information on the kind of keys are used on this board. Specifically, I was wondering if they were membranes, and if so, what kind of tactile qualities I should expect from cherry membranes.
These keyboards are also pretty cheap, considering they're fully programmable and have 142 relegendable keys. I found one for $99 with free shipping here (http://www.totalbarcode.com/part-number/G8663400EUADAA.html).
Lastly, I was wondering if anyone can provide some feedback about touch typing on unstaggered keys.
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G86 are rubber domes, the same type used in the cymotion expert and cymotion pro. I don't know if they're greased like the ones in the expert and that goes seem to make a fairly big difference in feel with the expert being well thought of by quite a few people here.
I don't know whether the IP54 sealing has made any difference, or whether those other two have it but it's not advertised as such (they are advertised as spill and dust resistent so it's possible).
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(http://i41.tinypic.com/fvd4s5.png)
Here's the layout I'm planning to use with this board. As mentioned before, it was inspired by the Humble Hacker layout. The main ideas are:
1. Stay close to standard keyboard layouts.
2. Keep the hands as far apart as possible, so that wrists won't have to tilt inward so much. This is in consideration of the unstaggered keys. Straight wrists will hopefully make it easier to reach fingers in purely vertical motions. Similar to Kinesis keyboards.
3. Be accommodating to Emacs and Vi users. Control, Alt, Escape, and : are easy to reach.
Of course this is all just speculative until I actually try it on the board.
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This is a neat experiment. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the key feel of the g86. Also the procedure to program it (does it come with software? etc).
also would it be possible to put the numpad overlaid over the cursor keys (the way it is on normal boards' numpads) by using numlock to create a "layer"? (because if thats possible then you could have BOTH the cursor keys AND the numpad positioned in between your two hands, swapping between the functions with numlock).
i think the only thing i wouldnt like is the single-button spacebar. (I wonder if you can take a longer key from another cherry board and click it into place over two adjacent single keys on the g86?).
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This layout really alienates all of us that use the right thumb for spacebar. (me) Why'd you decide not to put any space keys for the right thumb?
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This layout really alienates all of us that use the right thumb for spacebar. (me) Why'd you decide not to put any space keys for the right thumb?
The main reason was that I realized I only use my left thumb for space, so I wanted my right one to be productive in some way, and from the Humble Hacker I got the idea to assign it to backspace and enter. Of course none of this has materialized in any way yet, so feel free to change the layout however you like in your head.
But seriously, that is the great thing about using the g86-63400. All the keys are (supposedly) programmable, and that gives you ultimate flexibility in layout. I'm planning on mutating the layout above for many iterations before I get something that works well.
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That keyboard looks flat as a notebook and chiclet keys to boot. I dunno if it would be comfortable typing for any period of time.
Yes, I'm a little afraid of this. But right now I don't know of any alternatives that are as cheap ($99). It is supposed to serve as a rapid-prototyping substrate anyway.
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The main reason was that I realized I only use my left thumb for space, so I wanted my right one to be productive in some way, and from the Humble Hacker I got the idea to assign it to backspace and enter. Of course none of this has materialized in any way yet, so feel free to change the layout however you like in your head.
But seriously, that is the great thing about using the g86-63400. All the keys are (supposedly) programmable, and that gives you ultimate flexibility in layout. I'm planning on mutating the layout above for many iterations before I get something that works well.
Wait yeah, that's right. Freely programmable layouts ftw!
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Wait yeah, that's right. Freely programmable layouts ftw!
indeed.
tho a longer bar on the bottom row would have been nice. I'm still wondering if it would be possible to transplant a longer cherry key from another board onto this board.
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That's very cool, pmyshkin. I'm very interested in what your layout becomes after a few iterations. I thought about trying the same thing with one of these: x-keys (http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xk12884.php). But then I saw the price.
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This thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=4379) has some suggestions for non-staggered POS boards with Cherry switches.
$99 seems a lot for a rubber dome.
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This thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=4379) has some suggestions for non-staggered POS boards with Cherry switches.
I saw this thread before, but I didn't look very closely at the actual boards mentioned. Upon inspection, the PKB-118 looks like a pretty good candidate. Strangely the price for that model isn't listed, but it can't be far from the $99 claimed for the PKB-111. Even though these boards don't look as nice as the g86, and I've never tried linear cherries before, I'm guessing that they're still a better buy. I just have to make sure that what appears to be the numpad area can be relabeled and programmed. Thanks for the pointer lowpoly.
$99 seems a lot for a rubber dome.
This statement is making me think twice about things ...
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It's been a while but I finally got a g86-63400. I posted a review of the board here (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6658).
At first I tried to obtain the PKB-118 per lowpoly's suggestion, since it looked more typing friendly and had cherry black switches for the same price of $99 (excepting $50 shipping from Taiwan), but the manufacturer fell through after the order was all settled and said that they were missing one of the necessary components to build the board. Oh well.
Like I said in the review it's pretty hard to touch type on this board. I'm still toying with layouts but for the moment I have something like this:
(http://i29.tinypic.com/jkcew2.jpg)
The thing I like the most is the enter on the right thumb.
Apparently the board was designed so that you can replace two single key positions with a long 1x2 key, as I'd like to do for space. However I can't find anyone that actually sells these keys.
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You reverted to QWERTY?! Did you forget to wear your tin foil hat so the mind control got you?
I like a thumb Enter a lot too. I use Caps+Space, which works surprisingly smoothly considering it's two keys rather than one, and has the advantage of being easily reachable with the left hand alone when I'm mousing.
No row stagger at all looks disconcerting. How's that working out for you?
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You reverted to QWERTY?! Did you forget to wear your tin foil hat so the mind control got you?
Relax. I only programmed it for qwerty because I have a language map that expects a qwerty scan code layout but produces symbols according to the colemak layout. If I use a keyboard that generates scan codes according to the colemak layout, I'd have to use a US qwerty language map for the end result to be correct. I have another regular keyboard plugged into the same computer and didn't want to keep changing the language setting back and forth.
That said, one of the advantages of this keyboard is that you can program in colemak scan codes directly so that you can plug the board into someone else's computer and start typing in colemak layout without making them change their language setting.
No row stagger at all looks disconcerting. How's that working out for you?
It's not too bad. The only thing I have trouble with is confusing c,v and k,m sometimes. I intentionally laid out the board to keep my hands far apart and straight, so my fingers naturally move vertically anyway.
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Hm. This looks very interesting. The funny thing is... Why are Keyboards of a german Manufacturer only available in other countries and not in germany? :behindsofa:
I can order it from Switzerland or anything nearby but not from germany. xD
Ok, one question: How are the n-key rollover capabilities? I think, it could be a decent gaming keyboard.
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Ok, one question: How are the n-key rollover capabilities? I think, it could be a decent gaming keyboard.
Terrible. It's a rubber dome and membrane contacts board, and has the standard 3-key rollover that you'd expect from these things.
I guess with all the extra keys and programmable multi-key macros, it would be quite handy for gaming.
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Hm. This looks very interesting. The funny thing is... Why are Keyboards of a german Manufacturer only available in other countries and not in germany? :behindsofa:
I can order it from Switzerland or anything nearby but not from germany. xD.
Keybo.de (http://www.keybo.de/) can deliver almost any Cherry board still in production if you ask for it, even if it's not listed in the online catalogue.
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Ok, I've got my G80-1800 from Keybo. Maybe, I'll just ask politely for a SPOS.^^
It's definetly interesting I think. Making your own Layout is really impressive.
You can switch the caps with the other non-SPOS G86-Keyboards, right?
That would be awesome.
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The consumer-grade Cymotion boards (G86) use notched/keyed key-stems, making it impossible to relocate keys.
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You can switch the caps with the other non-SPOS G86-Keyboards, right?
No, you can't. However, I've spent a little time epoxying keycaps from a wasted sun keyboard onto the translucent covers that came with the g86, and the result is quite nice. I'll post pictures of this a little later.
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You can switch the caps with the other non-SPOS G86-Keyboards, right?
No, you can't. However, I've spent a little time epoxying keycaps from a wasted sun keyboard onto the translucent covers that came with the g86, and the result is quite nice. I'll post pictures of this a little later.
In the PDF file for the G86's has the accessory kit for the extra keys: http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/pdf/SPOS_RC_datasheet.pdf :
G99-1779ZUB
Just wanted to know if you were sucesfull customizing for 1*2 and 1*4 keys with this kit...
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Attack of the necro thread!
(Just FYI this is from 2009 :cool:)
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Attack of the necro thread!
(Just FYI this is from 2009 :cool:)
It still alive (like a 1991 IBM clicky) ;)
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It's been a while but I finally got a g86-63400. I posted a review of the board here (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6658).
Is the review top secret or has it been delete? Can the mods help.
Wanted to check out the review but when I click it says: "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."
This thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=4379) has some suggestions for non-staggered POS boards with Cherry switches.
$99 seems a lot for a rubber dome.
Although they're rubber dome it's a well made, spill-proof & dust proof keyboard.
A good mechanical keyboard lifespan is 50 million key-presses.
Lifespan of Cherry's G86-63400 rubber domes is only 25 million.
But, still much better than the average keyboard which is generally 5 million.