Thanks for that!
A lot of people have been wondering about the Kailh switches (rebranded to Razor) - I guess we know now :(
Terminology is fine.
And by the way it was decided to call them "MX-Compatible" Key Switches (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0) in the interest of common understanding, legal niceties, and full disclosure :D
Keycaps: The keycaps were horrendous. They felt awful to type on because they were sticky and that makes it difficult to touch type.
I swapped out the original keycap set with a set of doubleshot ABS Ragnarok keycaps I had on the side.
1/10
Keycaps: The keycaps were horrendous. They felt awful to type on because they were sticky and that makes it difficult to touch type.
I swapped out the original keycap set with a set of doubleshot ABS Ragnarok keycaps I had on the side.
1/10
Hmm, sticky? How do you think the stock ABS keycaps from say, Ducky or Corsair compare to it?
I feel like that 1/10 rating is a bit harsh for stock keycaps on a review haha.
Razer might not have the best quality control, but it shouldn't be this bad. Get a replacement for sure, the one I tried wasn't anything like this at least switch wise.
Thanks for the review!
Always thought razer peripherals are overpriced for their quality and this just further confirms my theory
Thanks for the review!
Always thought razer peripherals are overpriced for their quality and this just further confirms my theory
Others have suggested that mine may have been "defective" (though I still say that Razer intentionally uses bad parts so the products break down and the consumer goes out to buy the newer models)
Even then, they claimed when they made the switch they were supposed to have their own quality control personnel in the factory so either that was complete BS (Razer has never shown me quality control) or they just flat out suck.
I'll post pictures of the badly formed keycap and an example of the keys getting stuck later on (too busy with school and work)
Thanks for the review!
Always thought razer peripherals are overpriced for their quality and this just further confirms my theory
Others have suggested that mine may have been "defective" (though I still say that Razer intentionally uses bad parts so the products break down and the consumer goes out to buy the newer models)
Even then, they claimed when they made the switch they were supposed to have their own quality control personnel in the factory so either that was complete BS (Razer has never shown me quality control) or they just flat out suck.
I'll post pictures of the badly formed keycap and an example of the keys getting stuck later on (too busy with school and work)
If Razer hadn't of been so cheap and stuck with the Cherry MX keycaps then these keyboards wouldn't be as bad as they are right now to be honest.
So when did Razer switch to Kailh switches? I have a black widow ultimate from 2011 and the switches are Cherry MX2014 model, i had a 2013 with cherry MX blues so.
It would be interesting to see people talk about actually failed Razers, but there doesn't seem to be many around.It's all marketing I say! Besides really hardcore fans like the guys on GH, most people won't care what switches are being used(Cherry or Kailh or Alps etc) and indeed for the time I've used my blackwidow, it's served me well. The main thing that irritated me was that the secondary functions on the various keys were not lit. Other than that, I really had no problems with it and previous driver version, before synapse, worked well for me, granted I didn't program the macros.
As I observed on another thread, I have never known anyone's Razer to totally break down or fail. (I would consider one switch in an important position not working as keyboard failure also since that prevents you from using the keyboard.)
Now that I have just noticed this thread and some of the comments, I think I have figured Razer out.
-> The build is indeed OK. They may be cheapskates, but their keyboards are still plate mounted and soldered by the same OEMs that make many keyboards. Razer is not going to fall apart. They are not going to hire monkeys to solder, because they genuinely expect gamer kids to be rough and don't want to have people come to them for warranty.
Don't forget, one year of Razer being hammered 24-7 in a Korean cyber cafe, is equal to 10 years of a Filco being typed in a standard white collar office.
-> They have been cheap with many other parts intentionally. EG with the rubber feet and the easily scratched casing. Most gamer kids want something new every Christmas. Even though their Razer is far from death, they will use the fact that there are scratches and lost legs to ask for new presents.
Again thats why you can see Razers dated by year, because Razer wants to put pressure on the kids to keep updating their keyboards and not be 'left behind' by their peers.
In contrast, no other maker brands their keyboards by year. EG Filcos don't have year. Ducky has only model number and some special editions. And so on.
Can't really speak for the new ones, but my 2011 is actually really well built compared with my other boards. Sure the keycaps are dreadful, but the thing is made like a tank. Unlike my DAS and QFR, the keyboard is screwed on to the back housing with ~8 screws, and another 5 keep the top bezel firmly on in addition to the tabs. No squeaks, rattles, and no play in the case (unlike my Realforce 87U), and never missed a beat.
Is the case still solid on newer ones?
Credit should also to be given for bringing a $100 - $150 (in Canada anyways) mechanical keyboard with MX Blue/Brown and backlight options to mainstream local stores back at a time before anyone else did. That allowed me to try it and was a bit of a risk for them. Now that they tested the waters, others have followed suit.
Having said that, my Razer Imperator mouse drives me crazy sometimes as it'll randomly only track one axis.
Can't really speak for the new ones, but my 2011 is actually really well built compared with my other boards. Sure the keycaps are dreadful, but the thing is made like a tank. Unlike my DAS and QFR, the keyboard is screwed on to the back housing with ~8 screws, and another 5 keep the top bezel firmly on in addition to the tabs. No squeaks, rattles, and no play in the case (unlike my Realforce 87U), and never missed a beat.
Is the case still solid on newer ones?
Credit should also to be given for bringing a $100 - $150 (in Canada anyways) mechanical keyboard with MX Blue/Brown and backlight options to mainstream local stores back at a time before anyone else did. That allowed me to try it and was a bit of a risk for them. Now that they tested the waters, others have followed suit.
Having said that, my Razer Imperator mouse drives me crazy sometimes as it'll randomly only track one axis.
It would be interesting to see people talk about actually failed Razers, but there doesn't seem to be many around.
As I observed on another thread, I have never known anyone's Razer to totally break down or fail. (I would consider one switch in an important position not working as keyboard failure also since that prevents you from using the keyboard.)
Now that I have just noticed this thread and some of the comments, I think I have figured Razer out.
-> The build is indeed OK. They may be cheapskates, but their keyboards are still plate mounted and soldered by the same OEMs that make many keyboards. Razer is not going to fall apart. They are not going to hire monkeys to solder, because they genuinely expect gamer kids to be rough and don't want to have people come to them for warranty.
Don't forget, one year of Razer being hammered 24-7 in a Korean cyber cafe, is equal to 10 years of a Filco being typed in a standard white collar office.
-> They have been cheap with many other parts intentionally. EG with the rubber feet and the easily scratched casing. Most gamer kids want something new every Christmas. Even though their Razer is far from death, they will use the fact that there are scratches and lost legs to ask for new presents.
Again thats why you can see Razers dated by year, because Razer wants to put pressure on the kids to keep updating their keyboards and not be 'left behind' by their peers.
In contrast, no other maker brands their keyboards by year. EG Filcos don't have year. Ducky has only model number and some special editions. And so on.
...Razer mice never die. They really don't. Never....
I personally have a Naga from 2010-ish that is still going strong. Back before I got into the hobby heavily, I had a tournament edition Razer blackwidow (cherry switches). That was a great board and I never had any problems with it either. I know my experience is just anecdotal, but take their products for what they are: heavily advertised gaming products. I think people in this community unfairly rag on Razer products when this is a niche that they never wanted to sell towards to begin with. Just my $.02 :thumb:
I got the Chroma version 2 days ago and am still test driving it. Overall the Kailh switches are less loud and have less click sound than my Filco with mx blues, but not necessary worse - just different. Razer Synapse however is giving me all kinds of problems, from freezing by itself to breaking other programs and games... Well I have 45 days to return it as a best buy elite plus so we will see if I can keep this. I need RGB for to color match my next build, and I couldn't find the K70 RGB with blues anywhere.
BTW OP are you by any chance the same gl1tch3d at head-fi? ;D
Against my better judgement I tried two Chroma boards from two different retailers. The green switches were terrible. Some clicked, some didn't and there was noticeable wobble across all keys. Around a quarter of the keys didn't register a stroke when hit on the lower half of the key, while another quarter of the switches registered multiple inputs per stroke. What a joke.
Impressive lighting though, and nicely styled board (G910 anyone?).
Isn't a 2.5/10 a little harsh? I've never been a fan of Razor but a 2.5/10? The keyboard is a pretty decent keyboard right? It seems like most of the market enjoys it. If all of this is based off price point I think it should be reevaluated.
Seems like the only people who has anything positive to say about Razer keyboards are people who own these boards.
I'm having Logitech G710+ for now and, well, it's working pretty fine. Browns switches in my view are better in terms of double tapping and have almost the same tactile feel as cherry mx blues in Razer Blackwidow 2012-2013 versions. Browns just don't have clicky sound. But pre-installed o-rings from Logitech made this keyboard kinda less "mechanical" when I'm bottoming out. So I uninstall them and for now this keyboard feels like it should be. But those fragile keycaps(1 ctrl is already broken and other one have a crack in it) and Russian layout with short shift and \ button are kinda bothers me.Show Image(https://forums.logitech.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/10923i1FB6A95719D92678)
Before Logitech I had Blackwidow 2012 ultimate for ~83$(2500 rubles) which was awesome, but with 1 con. Double tapping was pretty much a pain in the (you know) in some fps like battlefield, counter-strike, call of duty and others. But it didn't last as long as my Logitech cause of tea. Luckily I cleaned my evidence and RMA it.
But anyway, why am I telling this? Cause for now I'm waiting for used Razer Blackwidow Chroma to be delivered(some reviewer just made a review out of it and now he don't need this keyboard).
I had some experience in terms of typing on Razer keyboards with "Razer Switches". I tried 2 Blackwidow Ultima 2014 keyboards, 1st one about a day and other one about a week. Well, those switches do feel cheaper, but they feel more different then mx blues or browns switches. Double tapping is okay, keys are wobbling when you're pressing all the way down and trying to move around which is pretty bad when you're playing some fps games and holding w for quite a long time. 1st keyboard had terrible wobbling w button, 2nd one had less, but still have it. Switches itself do feel sticky when you're pressing them from the left edges of keycaps.
So why am I buying this keyboard? Cause mx blues switches do feel almost the same as mx browns, not only on Blackwidow, but on Cooler Master also and I want something new with shiny backlight, same style as my Razer Naga 2014 which I have zero issues(cause I RMA Naga Epic, lol) and closer macro buttons(Logitech ones are too far away). And cause this reviewer sold it to me for half price. Even If keys from Chroma will be the same as in Ultima 2014 then i'll just install o-rings from Logitech and it will fix this wobbling issue. In terms of tactile feedback I do like Razer Switches more, then mx blues and mx browns. Maybe cause it's just different.
And yeah, I don't think that Chinese companies means crap durability. They just don't have same experience as Cherry. And same price as Cherry, ha-ha.
Just my random thoughts.
Were you on reddit?Well, I red a lot of comments about razer, corsair and other manufacturers. Maybe this review (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/266829/my_experience_with_razer_switches/)is pretty close to mine. But that's my personal view about razer switches compared to CoolerMaster Quick Fire with cherry mx blue and used blackwidow 2013 which were in shop.
I feel like I've read this before.
If double tapping and lights are all you care about there's always the corsair which would have genuine cherry switches at least.
Another issue I had with the razer switches is that they were just getting stuck which is detrimental in some games (like fps). Nothing like walking off a ledge because the key got stuck
Were you on reddit?Well, I red a lot of comments about razer, corsair and other manufacturers. Maybe this review (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/266829/my_experience_with_razer_switches/)is pretty close to mine. But that's my personal view about razer switches compared to CoolerMaster Quick Fire with cherry mx blue and used blackwidow 2013 which were in shop.
I feel like I've read this before.
If double tapping and lights are all you care about there's always the corsair which would have genuine cherry switches at least.
Another issue I had with the razer switches is that they were just getting stuck which is detrimental in some games (like fps). Nothing like walking off a ledge because the key got stuck
Maybe in chroma(which is still not delivered) keys will be not so bad as in 2014 edition. I'll post here as soon as it will come or just make another topic if it will bother you.
If chroma switches will be same or even worse, compared to 2014 edition, then I'll have to resend it back and buy some other keyboard.
In Russia we don't have any retailers who's selling corsair and ducky shine keyboards, sadly. Maybe some of them are selling corsair k70 non-rgb for like ~200$ which is just lol.
So my option will be: Cooler Master MECH, COUGAR 700K or Tt eSPORTS Poseidon Z with Kailh blue. Or just try to find used blackwidow 2012-2013 edition.
I just can't understand haters. Some of them hate that it's Razer, others that it's Chinese switches. ULTIMATE HATE MACHINE WHICH INVADES ANY COMMENT SECTION AND SPREADING HATE.
Anyway. It will be very helpful if people will start telling main problems with switches itself instead of just claiming that Chinese=crap or Razer=crap.
Cherry have only 2 clicky switches(blue and green) with different actuation point which is not that good if you want to tap same key as fast as possible instead of linear switches. So Razer raised it up which is good for doing that. But the fact that these switches were made with some flaws which was none in cherry is worse, then raised actuation point. Or maybe not...
Sorry for my Engrish, I just went from read-only only to tell my only opinion, only.
I hate being grouped into the bandwagon group of just hating on Razer.I said nothing about exactly you. If you're treating yourself like that, well...
I actually do test out stuff before I make comments about it.
I read reviews from experienced users before relaying information about it.
Unfortunately I've had issues with literally every Razer product I've owned and the others that I tried weren't impressive or worth the price.
As a long time audiophile I have a good grasp of sound quality and what to listen for. The Razer headsets, even the tiamat, were awful. Every last one of them.
The Razer mouse pads are overpriced and the vespula mouse pad actually damaged the skates in my Logitech g9x
The Razer mice have an average lifespan if under a year (go read reviews) and all have a common issue suggesting an intentional design flaw. (Naga double click issue is a good example)
The older blackwidow was okay since it used cherry switches but my friends who had it had the controller die on them. But now with the inconsistent and generally wobbly switches at the price if a cherry MX board I would never recommend a single one of their products. I've given them several chances and always cane back disappointed.
The Tournament Edition doesn't have backlighting
Ahh, I have the non-backlit version, which is substantially cheaper. I'm not seeing any of the issues mentioned above, but the $60 difference in price would change the expectations as well I suppose.
Ahh, I have the non-backlit version, which is substantially cheaper. I'm not seeing any of the issues mentioned above, but the $60 difference in price would change the expectations as well I suppose.
Ahh, I have the non-backlit version, which is substantially cheaper. I'm not seeing any of the issues mentioned above, but the $60 difference in price would change the expectations as well I suppose.
I was looking to get an RGB TKL keyboard, but the rub was that it had to be Mac friendly. The Logitech G910 is full-size only and has phenomenally bad keycaps. The Corsair K65 only comes with MX red switches, which aren't bad but I prefer browns over them. That keyboard also isn't fully Mac compatible; someone cobbled together a hacked version of the software but it's pretty incomplete feature-wise. The Royal Kludge RC930-87 was close, but its software is Windows only, doesn't have per-key lighting control, and to me, its lighting doesn't look like true RGB the way Corsair and Razer do.
That pretty much left the BlackWidow. The Chroma Configurator, which allows you to create those crazy color profiles, doesn't work with the TE Stealth on OS X, at least not yet, but all the other functionality is there. It pairs very well with my DeathAdder Chroma. On my "Steambox" SFF PC, I love creating specific profiles for games so that the keyboard only lights up the keys that I use in a particular title. As much crap as Razer gets flung its way, I have to say the BW TE Chroma is a solid keyboard, assuming of course it holds up over the course of time.
If my BlackWidow breaks, I'll probably buy either a Realforce 87U or a Royal Kludge RC930 RGB and never look back. I am once again becoming one with cup rubber, and I'm starting to realize how much I've missed it.
I enjoy the different feeling immensely over the stock OEM profile
I enjoy the different feeling immensely over the stock OEM profile
Gotta be TKL. No room for anything larger.
I love my TKL HiPro
You should try it
I would say great review. I do disagree. My that is just one bearded mans opinion. I like my black widow. I do have to say the build quality is disappointing, but I do absolutely love the keys. I don't find mine has very much wobble at all and is a pleasure to type on. I do agree that the layout is not the best if you have any other brands. I currently type on a black widow at home and a chroma at work, so there's not much problem. I do have to say though, two months in I have allready had to RMA to razer to get a switch replaced because the LED stopped working.
Hope to see you do more reviews!