Post by: mkawa on Tue, 23 September 2014, 04:51:04
As some may know, I own exactly one keyboard: a 55g uniform Realforce 10th Anniversary. It's blue. I like it. When I first met Carter of CM Storm, he told me that they had worked out and were going to market a Topre switched board with MX-compatible cruciform stems. This was the first statement in our first ever discussion and I have been waiting and dying to buy one since then. When I finish with this long-term review, I'm going to buy one regardless of the conclusion of the review. I am probably the most biased reviewer you have ever met. OK, you have been warned.
WEEK ONE: first impressions
I received a gigantic brown box last week. I wasn't sure what was in it. When I opened it, it was full of butcher paper and more cardboard.
Oh, there were two black boxes in them. Each one contained a Novatouch TKL. OK, that makes more sense.
The packaging designed for the Novatouch is beefy. It consists of a large black box with inset black logos, black text and black foam inside. The box opens with a single black flap that is magnetized. Nice touch.
Inside, there was a black keyboard, a set of black o-rings and a nice wire keycap puller with a black handle. Does the packaging explode if you put white keycaps on the keyboard? Made a note to investigate this.
My first encounter with a Novatouch sample was the unit that CM-Nurumu brought to Keycon. Without a 55g reference, my feeling was that it actually felt like 55g and not 45g as the specs indicated. However, comparing a final production unit to my 55g 10ae, the Novatouch is definitely a 45g uniform. My feeling is that this is a good thing because the samples of the Leopold FC660C that I've tried have felt more like 30g; I have not been crazy about the 660C.
To be fair, my 55g 10AE sliders have been lubed with straight Krytox GPL206, but one can still feel the dome actuation, and my 10AE feels a little heavier than Cherry MX Browns while the Novatouch feels very close to Cherry MX Reds. This feel is consistent across the Novatouch, which, I think, is another good thing that the 660C lacks. This speaks to a high level of quality control on the part of the Novatouch and possibly a different rubber formulation than the 660C. I'm completely speculating on this point.
I then pulled out a GIGANTIC LIGHT and read the Novatouch box. The front of the box indicates that the switches are made in Japan, presumably by Topre, and the back of the box indicates that the board is made in China. What this means in the context of a Topre switched board is that the entire internal assembly, which is a produced as a single unit, is made entirely in Japan, while the outer plastic casing and final assembly are likely done in mainland China.
The next day, I put the review sample in my bag and brought it to work. I removed the logitech 2mm travel rubber dome keyboard from my terminal and broke it in half (dear employer, I actually just put it on the floor, but I did so very forcefully). The Novatouch takes an (included) mini USB cable. The cable that comes with it is a pretty standard cable. Previous CM Storm cables that I've used have had plastic fiber braided outers, but this one is smooth with an elastomer outer. The mini USB side of the cable is a right angle, and the computer side is straight.
If you're familiar with the quickfire rapid, the casing and board feels substantially more hefty and solid. There is an overlaid inset on the rear that is a lighter gray with a relatively plain CM Storm logo on it. This indicates that the board chassis probably uses at least three pieces. The quickfire rapid, stealth, XT, etc. all use two, an upper and lower casing. Regardless, the Novatouch casing is noticeably smaller than my TKL realforce.
The keys on the keyboard are ABS, and seem like OEM profile. The legends are pad printed. Like the other keyboards in CM Storm's oeuvre, the included keys are placeholders for customized and premium keysets. Since the stems are MX-compatible cruciforms, any keycap set that fits an MX-compatible keyboard will fit on the Novatouch. After using the board with the included keycaps for some time, I will probably replace them with either GMK doubleshots or IMSTO's thick dyesub PBT caps.
Typing on the board does not set off fireworks. It is a little noisier than other Topre boards I've used, but not alarmingly so. It feels pretty natural and was immediately familiar. To me, to be quite honest, the Leopold 660C feels only slightly better than a membrane board. The leopold's actuation point is difficult to feel out, and the actuation form is far too light. Not so with the Novatouch. The CM Storm board gives good positive feedback. I assume the clackiness has more to do with the keycaps, but I will have to wait until I can pick up some beefier keys before determining whether this is true.
There are no LEDs on the Novatouch. I don't believe in caps lock or any other kind of lock on a keyboard, so this doesn't bother me in any way. If it bothers you, then that may be something you want to consider before buying.
So, I'm typing on the Novatouch at work, and mostly just doing work. This is a good thing. It integrated into my workflow with zero effort or annoyances. It feels good to type on. I like it.
NEXT: MORE TYPING! (it's a keyboard. I mean seriously.)
Post by: epzy on Tue, 23 September 2014, 05:00:41
Very interesting to read how you feel about the FC660C, too.
Post by: Belfong on Tue, 23 September 2014, 05:26:53
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 23 September 2014, 06:02:52
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 23 September 2014, 06:53:13
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 23 September 2014, 07:27:20
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 23 September 2014, 07:33:17
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 23 September 2014, 07:36:55
As epzy said, very interesting to read that you dislike the 660C so much. But it's great to see that you're pleased with the novatouch build quality, that's a huge plus.
Maybe it's time for me to get one...
In the end though, 10AE or novatouch?
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Tue, 23 September 2014, 07:38:09
Can you swap out one of the modifiers from your Novatouch to your 10AE and vice versa? And does the Novatouch have that rubber "velvet" finish?The stabilizers are interchangeable. The only unfortunate thing this that the spacebar spacing on the HHKB/Realforce is slightly shorter than the Novatouch, meaning people swapping the stems into a HHKB will have a difficult time finding an aftermarket spacebar.
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 23 September 2014, 07:39:28
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 24 September 2014, 04:40:11
Post by: Latin00032 on Wed, 24 September 2014, 07:14:55
I have a RF 55g and the 660c.
I'm not a topre veteran but the fc660c felt good to me. Not as good as the 55g RF. But, once I put the 55g domes in the 660c, it became my go to topre.
I haven't tried the hhkb, yet. I want to try it to see how it compares. I hear it's a completely new experience.
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 24 September 2014, 11:20:04
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 24 September 2014, 14:57:34
Post by: salcan on Wed, 24 September 2014, 15:54:01
Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the 660C. I quite like the switch feel on the PBT model. It's an interesting take on Topre - not the best, but not at all bad IMO.
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Wed, 24 September 2014, 16:11:20
Does anyone has a list of recommended keycaps for this, with all the compatible modifiers? BSP, GMK, and Imsto are all safe bets it seems? What else?All of those would work with the exception of BSP. They unfortunately do not have some of the molds used with most mass produced keyboards, and do not even make spacebars. If you're looking for another good PBT alternative, you could check out the PBT sets that widebasket sells on eBay, they are very nice quality for the price.
Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the 660C. I quite like the switch feel on the PBT model. It's an interesting take on Topre - not the best, but not at all bad IMO.
Post by: Elrick on Sat, 27 September 2014, 21:54:28
All of those would work with the exception of BSP. They unfortunately do not have some of the molds used with most mass produced keyboards, and do not even make spacebars. If you're looking for another good PBT alternative, you could check out the PBT sets that widebasket sells on eBay, they are very nice quality for the price.
Maybe this gives SP a chance to shine here with their products. Interesting to see of any of their DCS, DSA or even the God-like SA profiles will work perfectly with the current Novatouch ?
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 28 September 2014, 07:01:06
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 28 September 2014, 07:03:05
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 28 September 2014, 07:03:17
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 28 September 2014, 08:41:32
i'd actually really like to try a set of nuclear DSA on the board when it's produced. i've never used DSA before for an extended period of time. i don't think there will be an issue with fitment.
Nuclear is SA not DSA, unless another buy is coming.....
Post by: HipsterPunks on Sun, 28 September 2014, 08:42:38
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 28 September 2014, 09:40:07
and whoops on the nuclear green SA. i'm still not really sure what kind of cap will mesh best with this board, and i don't have a lot of caps sitting around to try. i suspect that the tour of the board (which will come with sample caps) be much better for figuring out the answer to this question. then, once everyone else agrees, i'll buy a set of that kind for the board i purchase after the review period is over ;)
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 28 September 2014, 09:40:09
Yesterday, I improved the sound and feel of a Kul ES-87 mx clear by putting Imsto dye-sub thick PBT caps on it equipped with 40A-L O-rings.
I put the stock thin ABS caps from the Kul on my CM Novatouch, and to my surprise, this improved my perception of the sound and feel of the Novatouch. In addition, I noticed an interesting thing: the Kul keycaps snapped into place rather than sliding into a friction fit with the stems. The Imso caps were far too loose on the Novatouch.
Overall, I still favor my RF 87ub 55g, HHKB Pro 2, and IBM XT keyboards over all the others. Nevertheless, the Kul ES-87 and CM Novatouch are close contenders, and I will keep them in my keyboard rotation.
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 28 September 2014, 10:50:01
Post by: Latin00032 on Sun, 28 September 2014, 11:15:35
Most if the reviews I've read so far show allot of people who prefer the rf 55g over the novatouch mostly because of the dome type.
I'd want to get an idea on how much different peoples opinions of the board would be if the domes on the novatouch were 55g.
I modded my 660c with 55g domes. There was a good difference. The only problem was I had one of the newer fc660c boards that had heavier domes. This made the swapping differences seem less notable. There was a difference but not as much.
I'm actually almost considering putting the regular 45g domes back into the fc660c.
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 02 October 2014, 19:58:03
anyway, they finally set me up with a proper keyboard tray, and i ripped the horrible armrests off my chair, so i can actually type at work without my wrists going numb. this actually made a huge difference in how i use the board, as my actuation force is a bit lighter with the board at a proper negative angle and placed around waist-height.
dorkvader grabbed the second review sample and will be turning in a review, trying some POM caps on it, then passing it onto cptbadass of the keepers, who will assemble the first full tour kit and be turning in a review as well. dv mentioned that the stabilizers have been getting a lot of guff. we compared the stabs on the nova to the ones on my 10ae and while the 10ae is marginally more stable on the long right shift and the return key, the spacebar is very solid on both, and personally i think the difference is as much in the dome weight and very minor tolerances in the plastic than something inherent to the stabilizer design.
one reason i'm doing a longer term review though is that i am _BRUTAL_ to keyboards. if there is give in a design that is a fundamental problem, my banging on the board is highly likely to find it. cptbadass remarked that my well used 10ae was the first topre board he'd ever tried that rattled. one of the reasons i started playing around with building up new BS boards from scratch with bolts was because i cracked my first SSK barrel plate into 3 pieces in a month.
so yah, more updates as i get angrier at work.
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 02 October 2014, 23:30:40
one reason i'm doing a longer term review though is that i am _BRUTAL_ to keyboards. if there is give in a design that is a fundamental problem, my banging on the board is highly likely to find it. cptbadass remarked that my well used 10ae was the first topre board he'd ever tried that rattled. one of the reasons i started playing around with building up new BS boards from scratch with bolts was because i cracked my first SSK barrel plate into 3 pieces in a month.
so yah, more updates as i get angrier at work.
Yeah, that's how you need to treat them with absolute hostility 8) . No pulling back the anger, let it all out with vigour and contempt plus rub in a little audacity and a tiny sprinkle of vilification. Stir in slowly and serve it luke warm with just a hint of bollocking.
If the Novatouch can survive all that then you're onto a winner.
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 03 October 2014, 08:52:33
with the light actuation, i'm not sure that a big thick cap will be the best for this board. hence my thinking that maybe a DSA set would be a really good fit.It is fun being able to modulate the appearance, sound, and feel of the Novatouch by changing the keycaps and experimenting with various types of O-rings.
I've decided I really don't like mx clears, and so I have transferred the Kul keycaps from the Novatouch back to the Kul so that I can put the Kul up for sale. I put another set of dye-sub thick PBT caps on the Novatouch. These PBT caps are from geek_feng, and they fit better than the Imsto set did. The Novatouch looks, sounds, and feels great with these caps and no O-rings.
My only remaining quibble with the Novatouch is the Fn key. The Kul has a handy DIP switch setting for changing Fn to Menu, which makes it possible to use remapping software to configure Fn to my liking. The hardwired Fn key on the Novatouch cannot be readily reprogrammed. Therefore, I have remapped Right Control as Fn, but this leaves me with a useless Fn key on the board. If CM does not want to add DIP switches, perhaps they would consider leaving out the Fn key and replacing it with Menu, which would be reprogrammed easily -- this is what I have done with my RF 87ub 55g board.
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 03 October 2014, 09:25:26
My daily drivers are a Model M and a Leopold TKL with Browns. I have no Topre keyboards, and I dislike Cherry Clears. I also have CM Storm keyboard in multiple flavors, including a 104 with MX Greens I use as my #2 keyboard at home. (There is my bias exposed.)
On the table at Key Con West was the Novatouch, a 55g Realforce, a 660C, and the new Realforce 104UG "High-Profile" keyboard. The latter has uniform 45g keys and very sculptured, high-profile PBT keycaps. So of the four keyboards on offer, I was another person who disliked the 660C, and the 55g Realforce felt too hard -- like MX Clears, perhaps. I did like the Novatouch and the Realforce 104UG. And I like both 104 and TKL keyboards, so the two are equivalent in my use. (I have plenty of GH36 keypads...)
But what are the relative costs?
Realforce 104UG with sculptured, high-profile PBT keycaps: $240 at EK.
Novatouch plus a Base Set of Nuclear Data Green keycaps: $200 + $69 = $269.
So, except for the opportunity for future keycap changes, that $269 buys me a "Hybrid Capacitive Switch" keyboard from a vendor with a mixed quality history. For less money I can get a genuine Realforce with honestly, some of the best keycaps I have ever touched. We'll see about thick ABS SA, but the 104UG has throwback PBT keycaps that are much better (to my fingers) than either Imsto thick PBT, the Model M, or any keyset I have ever bought from SP.
Again, I liked the Novatouch. But I didn't care for the throwaway keycaps it has. As you might imagine, I will have no shortage of Nuclear Data Green keycaps shortly, so that wasn't really an issue. But I truly loved the 104UG's sculptured keycaps, and so, for my money the Novatouch is over-priced for the value it offers.
Just my $.02. Thanks for the review!
- Ron | samwisekoi
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 05 October 2014, 20:22:21
anyway, i'm starting to really dig the possibility of putting 55g domes on a novatouch with cherry caps. note to self: find a dead 55g topre board!
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 06 October 2014, 10:26:06
worth pointing out that i don't know of any plans to do a 104 key novatouch. there's a tiny bit of apples and oranges on that one.
anyway, i'm starting to really dig the possibility of putting 55g domes on a novatouch with cherry caps. note to self: find a dead 55g topre board!
Does it work the other direction? Can you put Novatouch sliders on a Topre board?
- Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Mon, 06 October 2014, 10:33:22
You sure can! TJ has already transplanted the stems from the novatouch into his HHKB, and the stems from the HHKB into a novatouch. The only problem being the stabilizer spacing between the two is slightly different, so it will still be tough finding an aftermarket spacebar. The stabilizers are also interchangeable.worth pointing out that i don't know of any plans to do a 104 key novatouch. there's a tiny bit of apples and oranges on that one.
anyway, i'm starting to really dig the possibility of putting 55g domes on a novatouch with cherry caps. note to self: find a dead 55g topre board!
Does it work the other direction? Can you put Novatouch sliders on a Topre board?
- Ron | samwisekoi
Sig auto-typed by my GH36 LH keypad.
Post by: CM-Rajiv on Wed, 08 October 2014, 13:52:08
+1 for CM-Rajiv! Thank you for this opportunity for the community :)
;) No problem guys.
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 17 October 2014, 04:17:43
my time with the demo novatouch may have to come to an end soon. frankly, it's been an excellent keyboard; i'm still going to buy one (exactly as i said at the beginning of this review). i'm really jazzed to have a proper keyboard at work that doesn't make a crapton of noise, and i'm glad i'm not paying for keycaps that i'm just going to end up tossing. the quality of this board is, frankly, excellent. it is the best of the non-realforce topres that i've tried, and frankly, except for the 55g vs 45g thing, i have no opinion either way on the 10ae vs the novatouch. the 10ae is 55g, which i like a bit better, and the novatouch is 45g topre. both feel like topre boards are supposed to feel, except that i had to import my 10ae from korea at an exceptionally high price with a long lead time, and i can walk into a store (ok, order from newegg, but you get the idea) a novatouch and have a high quality topre board in a day or two.
of course, you don't have to take my word on it, and i'm not nearly as finicky about certain things as you guys are, but not many keyboards become "keepers" for me, and this one is.
i'll post a few more thoughts as i wrap up and pass on the board to cptbadass for the tour, but that's my story and i'm sticking to it.
Post by: dante on Fri, 17 October 2014, 14:04:42
worth pointing out that i don't know of any plans to do a 104 key novatouch. there's a tiny bit of apples and oranges on that one.
anyway, i'm starting to really dig the possibility of putting 55g domes on a novatouch with cherry caps. note to self: find a dead 55g topre board!
I'm not sure what you mean by apples and oranges - but Coolermaster should really consider doing a 104 Novatouch.
Here's why:
1. My requests to Seasonic for a 55g Type Heaven have fallen on deaf ears.
2. Brian @ EK says that a 104 55g is out of the question. As far as I know Leopold of Korea no longer stocks the 104UBK 55g Korean version.
3. EK hasn't sold a fullsize (103UB 55g) 55g Topre in several years (2011?)
If Coolermaster can't come out with a fullsize can they at least consider selling the 55g domes separately? I prefer this to purchasing two 55g 87U's.
Just because Coolermaster is a gaming company doesn't mean some of us don't use their keyboards for heavy data entry.
Post by: osi on Fri, 17 October 2014, 14:38:18
Post by: _PixelNinja on Sat, 18 October 2014, 20:08:19
If Coolermaster can't come out with a fullsize can they at least consider selling the 55g domes separately? I prefer this to purchasing two 55g 87U's.You would have to take that up to Topre, not Cooler Master.
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 19 October 2014, 07:26:30
Post by: BlackWidowMan777 on Sun, 19 October 2014, 13:03:35
Also how closely did the keycaps seem to be oem profile; and finally how dark is the box or fine is the print that made you have to use a gigantic torch. Was it a mandingo maglite?
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 20 October 2014, 00:31:43
oh man. dorkvader and i were going over the novatouch with some acetal/POM cherry profile keycaps on it (felt good, definitely better than OEM), and then he put a signature plastics' SA profile key from ctrlalt on it. HOLY CRAP. it feels amazing. if you have a novatouch already, buy a set and try it. TOTAL transformation of the board. the tactile point is incredibly well defined. the entire travel is 100% haptic. the weight is perfect. i am blown away, and i only tried _ONE KEY_
Geez, did you know these keyboards are finally coming to Convict Town, go figure. Based upon your review alone I'll be getting one to try it out, now I have to choose which key-sets to use on it.
Nice to see the Novatouch liking different key-sets. I hope this doesn't mean the end of Cherry Keyboard love here on Geekhack ? 8) .
Post by: dante on Mon, 20 October 2014, 13:12:08
oh man. dorkvader and i were going over the novatouch with some acetal/POM cherry profile keycaps on it (felt good, definitely better than OEM), and then he put a signature plastics' SA profile key from ctrlalt on it. HOLY CRAP. it feels amazing. if you have a novatouch already, buy a set and try it. TOTAL transformation of the board. the tactile point is incredibly well defined. the entire travel is 100% haptic. the weight is perfect. i am blown away, and i only tried _ONE KEY_
Any loose keys with the SA profile?
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 27 October 2014, 21:39:28
I really enjoyed this review. It was like a bob the clack story but in a keyboard form. I too am attuned to the art of guesstimating actuation weights but I'm quite interested to know the precise cherry mx red board it feels closest to which enabled you to pinpoint the novatouch's keyweighting as bang-on evenly-distributed '45 g' as stated on the box.it felt bang on like my ducky yotd purple led/red switch from ye long ago. even longer ago, i had a pcb mount vortex poker from the first production batch that passed through all the different switch and spring combinations from reds to clear stems on grey springs. it didn't feel like any of those. it definitely felt like the plate mounted reds from the yotd.
Also how closely did the keycaps seem to be oem profile; and finally how dark is the box or fine is the print that made you have to use a gigantic torch. Was it a mandingo maglite?
the keycaps are OEM profile as far as i can tell. if they aren't, they're indistinguishable from OEM to me.
i seriously had to like squeeze up to a desk lamp with the box to read the text. there is some pretty serious black on black crow in a coal mine insetting going on on that thing. that's not the important thing about the box though. the magnets are. i could seriously play with that magnetic flap for like an hour.
i didn't get to try a whole set of SA keys on the board, but between the cherry POM set and the SP SAs, the cruciforms on the SA keys were looser. they weren't wiggly loose, but they weren't as tight as the OEM keys or the (original) cherries. this is all in the tolerances though. there is a bit of skewing due to the age of the tooling (SP's tooling is very old, while CM's stem tooling is very new), but any tightness or looseness felt when mounting the keycaps goes away pretty quickly as you type on the keyboard. the good news was that no key we tried felt so tight that we felt like we were going to break something pulling it off (something something vortex thin abs w/ cherry stabilizers :|)
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:27:08
in fact, i find it to be so good that i'm kind of resisting sending it on to cptbadass for tour prep because i'm going to miss this particular board so much :(
#firstworldkeyboardproblems
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 28 October 2014, 18:36:48
It may be because I don't have a usable hhkb to compare with right now, too.
Post by: frosty on Tue, 28 October 2014, 23:39:03
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 29 October 2014, 18:27:20
GMK is pretty magical on it, too.
+1 I haven't used another board since I put GMK on the Novatouch (used to swap every day or two). I'm questioning everything.
Post by: exitfire401 on Wed, 29 October 2014, 18:41:07
GMK is pretty magical on it, too.
+1 I haven't used another board since I put GMK on the Novatouch (used to swap every day or two). I'm questioning everything.
It almost came home with me.
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 29 October 2014, 18:47:52
GMK is pretty magical on it, too.
+1 I haven't used another board since I put GMK on the Novatouch (used to swap every day or two). I'm questioning everything.
Actually GMK is pretty magical on anything!
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 November 2014, 06:58:40
Post by: Veridis on Tue, 04 November 2014, 10:44:20
oh man. dorkvader and i were going over the novatouch with some acetal/POM cherry profile keycaps on it (felt good, definitely better than OEM), and then he put a signature plastics' SA profile key from ctrlalt on it. HOLY CRAP. it feels amazing. if you have a novatouch already, buy a set and try it. TOTAL transformation of the board. the tactile point is incredibly well defined. the entire travel is 100% haptic. the weight is perfect. i am blown away, and i only tried _ONE KEY_
Is SA profile taller than OEM? Can you describe more about your experience with it on the Novatouch? :D
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 November 2014, 11:03:19
For example, here is one from the DT wiki:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Keyboard_profile#OEM_profile
And here is one from the Signature Plastics site:
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-caps.php
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 November 2014, 13:50:17
oh man. dorkvader and i were going over the novatouch with some acetal/POM cherry profile keycaps on it (felt good, definitely better than OEM), and then he put a signature plastics' SA profile key from ctrlalt on it. HOLY CRAP. it feels amazing. if you have a novatouch already, buy a set and try it. TOTAL transformation of the board. the tactile point is incredibly well defined. the entire travel is 100% haptic. the weight is perfect. i am blown away, and i only tried _ONE KEY_Where can you buy sets of SA profile keycaps?
In my latest experiments with keycaps for the NT, I found the following:
+ Thick PBT dye-sub set from geng-feng: Great appearance and PBT feel; loose fit on some of the stems; bottoming-out clack, but I don't mind the sound.
+ Thin standard DCS profile double-shot ABS set from SP: Excellent fit on the switch stems; minimal bottoming out clack so that you can finally get more of a Topre "thock". To me, this set seems to work the best of any I have tried thus far on on the NT. I think that at least one reason for this is the fact that the SP caps don't have the cross-member support struts found on the underside of many Cherry mx keycaps. This may allow the keycap stem to extend more deeply into the switch stem.
Although the SP keycaps seem to work well with the NT, I wish that SP had dye-sub PBT sets in DCS profile. I much prefer the surface feel of PBT over ABS. In addition, the pure black/white color scheme of the standard SP sets is rather stark.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 04 November 2014, 14:02:42
Where can you buy sets of SA profile keycaps?
Group buys.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 November 2014, 14:16:21
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 04 November 2014, 14:19:30
Could someone post a link to some examples of SA sets, even if these are not currently available?
If you just want to see them you can check matt's site here http://keypuller.com/profile/sa/ (http://keypuller.com/profile/sa/)
One set I forget about that you can instabuy is filco's SA offering. http://www.keyboardco.com/product/double_shot_filco_104_key_usa_keyset.asp
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 November 2014, 16:00:34
I really like the look of tall sphericals!Could someone post a link to some examples of SA sets, even if these are not currently available?
If you just want to see them you can check matt's site here http://keypuller.com/profile/sa/ (http://keypuller.com/profile/sa/)
One set I forget about that you can instabuy is filco's SA offering. http://www.keyboardco.com/product/double_shot_filco_104_key_usa_keyset.asp
I checked the Filco listing, and they are out of stock. In addition, the caps for the stabilized keys have the Costar-type inserts already glued into place, so that these would only work on Filco or other boards with Costar-type stabs.
Update: Regarding the standard DCS thin ABS doubleshots from SP, previously I had not installed the complete set on the NT. All the keys work fine with one exception: the Enter key. The Enter key clacks, just as all the keys did with the thick dye-sub PBT set.
At first, I thought it was the SP keycap, so I tried other Enter keys from SP with the same result (I have 2 sets; one black and one white, so that I can get a two-tone color scheme on 2 boards).
Next, I tried Enter keys from the Leopold PBT blank set, a vintage Dolch set, and a vintage Cherry set -- all with the same result: clack!
I have concluded that the problem lies with the hybrid Topre switch/stabilizer on the NT keyboard.
To alleviate the clack on the Enter key, I installed red 40A-L O-rings. I put one O-ring on each of the 3 stems in the Enter keycap. I also tried black soft landing pads, black 50A-R O-rings and blue 40A-R O-rings, as well as just one red O-ring on the center stem. I got the best result with 3 red O-rings; one on each of the 3 stems on the Enter keycap. This treatment results in the Enter key having about the same sound as the other keys; however, this makes the Enter key feel slightly mushier than other keys, and it is raised up higher than the other keys. These differences in the Enter key as a result of the O-rings do not seem to matter to me while typing, and on balance, I prefer having the improved sound for the Enter key.
The NT now seems more "Topre like", and subjectively at least, it now seems even quieter than my 55g RF 87ub. I am very pleased with the spacebar, which is quiet, and it responds evenly no matter where it is struck along its length.
The downside to the standard DCS thin doubleshot SP keycaps is that to me they look cheap. In particular, I have white alpha keys with black mods, and the black keys look like cheap pad-printed caps, despite the fact that they are doubleshots. Moreover, the keys have that clammy ABS feel rather than the slightly textured dry feel of PBT.
Post by: Veridis on Tue, 04 November 2014, 18:41:13
Darn if only there wasn't a need to wait for group buys @_@Where can you buy sets of SA profile keycaps?
Group buys.
Interested in SA profile because high profiles seem to be more snappy on the Novatouch.
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 November 2014, 20:00:48
i think the point of this is not which cap profile, finish and material is best on the novatouch, but which one you like best. this the first time that a high quality topre board has been compatible with MX style keys. the possibilities are endless, and it shows off a whole world of the topre tactile feel that we've never had the privilege of trying before. everyone's going to come up with their preferences, as they will, but now you have the opportunity to.
i really think this board is a home run. i could care less how many MX compatible switches try to modify the actuation point by how many fractions of mms but retain the same basic design. this board and the matias quiet click are the best in-production keyboards that money can buy.
Post by: Hypersphere on Tue, 04 November 2014, 23:03:17
Currently, I have ended up with the alphanumeric keys fitted with a dye-sub thick PBT set, off-white with blue legends. The arrow keys are off-white with black legends, and all the other keys are fitted with the dark navy blank PBT set from Leopold. These PBT caps are noisier than the SP ABS caps when bottoming out, but I would rather have a bit of noise in order to enjoy the dry feel of the PBT.
While I am fairly happy with my present setup, I wish that Leopold would come out with a set of dye-sub PBT keycaps in a light background and perhaps dark navy blue legends in a profile to match their blank navy PBT set.
My Realforce 87ub 55g and 45g boards strike me as finished and refined, like luxury cars that I can drive without any compelling need for tinkering. In contrast, my Novatouch feels relatively unfinished, but more fun, like a hot rod that continually invites modification to achieve a certain look, sound, or speed.
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 09 November 2014, 17:29:27
well, maybe not that exotic. i've paid way more for topre caps than i'm willing to admit.
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 09 November 2014, 19:09:40
i am brutal to keyboards, people.
Post by: Veridis on Sun, 09 November 2014, 20:14:39
totally irrelevant to this particular review, but my realforce 87u 10ae just effectively broke.Wow, how did you break it? Punching exercises?
i am brutal to keyboards, people.
Post by: Flyersfan1 on Sun, 09 November 2014, 20:22:17
totally irrelevant to this particular review, but my realforce 87u 10ae just effectively broke.YOU MONSTER.
i am brutal to keyboards, people.
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 09 November 2014, 20:30:09
but seriously though, i'm incredibly brutal to keyboards.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 09 November 2014, 23:16:52
oh don't worry, it's just the internals. i've banged on it so much that they are flexing past the point at which the topre controller can compensate for the fluctuating capacitance at each switch. all i need to do is swap in a new set of 55g internals and i can continue typing on kawa keyboard for another few years. the case and keyset is obviously reusable. this is also a fun excuse to mod the novatouch with 55g domes and springs
but seriously though, i'm incredibly brutal to keyboards.
pls stop abusing keyboards
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 10 November 2014, 06:35:45
eta: point of fact; for the time being, i'm replacing it with a novatouch. the 55g domes will eventually migrate over to the novatouch as well.
eta2: the heck? this was apparently caused by a corrupted bios. poor voltage regulation on the usb +v or something? absolutely no clue...