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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: Pemdas on Wed, 24 September 2014, 17:29:04
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Hey guys I've been thinking of learning a different layout, Colemak or Dvorak, but have a question for anyone that has learned after already knowing qwerty.
Do you still remember how to type in qwerty?? I want to learn other layouts but not at the cost of forgetting qwerty.
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Depends on your definition of commit. You are unlikely to be able to transition back and forth smoothly at first. Speed is going to drop in one as you spend more time in the other. Don't expect to be a faster colemak dvorak typer than you are a qerty typer.
Plenty of people do one at home and the other on the job.
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Hi, yes you will remember how to type in qwerty. I am learning my custom layout at the moment - I developed it with this software (https://github.com/michael****ens/Typing). I hunt & peck in qwerty, touchtype in my own layout. No problem.
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I have made a post about it recently, let me find it… or better, search my posts. ^_^
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I was able to type 120+ wpm qwerty (15 years), switched to Colemak (1 year); qwerty by day, colemak by night. I wanted to be faster in Colemak so I focused on it more. Qwerty now is like 20-30 wpm, Colemak 75-90 wpm.
You won't forget it, but there will be times where your fingers will naturally type in one or the other layout; happened to me and it was like a wtf kind of moment. During the learning process you may have a period where you will have a very hard time typing in either layouts; possibly due to to the nature of finger muscle memory trying to remember two different keystroke locations. If you have two distinct keyboards by touch, it may help to use each layout exclusively on its own keyboard.
I switched because 120+ wpm consistent on typeracer started hurting my wrists; rest would have helped but I figured, a life long coding career gave me a good enough ergonomic reason to switch. I caution you, if you find the need to use many different sets of computers at work, it may not be efficient to use/learn a different layout unless you plan to load the layouts onto the machine; this is only when you decide to keep one layout and forget qwerty. There are usb portable versions of colemak to carry around; it gets annoying to load.
Now I only type in Colemak, I don't miss qwerty and use it only when I have to. I am not as fast in Colemak, but it is less straining and effort to type for long periods. Qwerty avgs more left hand work, whereas Colemak is more right handed. I am a leftie so this may be why I am not as fast.
Good luck.
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Since switching to dvorak I've lost the ability to touch type qwerty and my speed has dropped by about 15wpm but in that time my speed with dvorak is up to 35. But I only switched to dvorak full time about two months ago and haven't really worked on increasing my speed yet.
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Switched to Dvorak around two years ago.
Frustrating at first as I could type Qwerty at around 40 WPM but had very bad RSI.
In the beginning I could only type 10-15 WPM Dvorak but very quickly made it up to my old speed. Now I am sitting around 60WPM and more importantly do not get as many wrist problems.
That being said I cannot type QWERTY anymore. At best I would be 5 WPM.
There is little downside to typing solely in Dvorak.
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If your speed is 120+ on qwerty.. don't bother..
that whole shtick about colmak / vorak being more efficient than qwerty is NOT true.. it's very anecdotal, and highly dependent upon the CONTENT that is being typed.
ONTOP of which... Qwerty actually has the more efficient vowels layout at the natural finger positions.
If you look for aeiou... on qwerty they're in the natural positions awef jio; 4 out of 5
on dvorak and colmak they're in the center row..
the CENTER ROW is NOT where your fingers rest.. laying your fingers across the home row is a totally n00ber thing..
any experienced typer will tell you their fingers do not rest there. on qwerty... awefjio; that is natural rest position..
This is before we go into custom layouts.. for example the y on qwerty is in a stupid place, because it forces your hand to likely pick up once in a while if you need to reach it..
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Sounds like you need an ergodox, tp.
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I switched over to Dvorak about 10 years now. Painstaking at first, but after a couple weeks, you start to catch on. After learning Dvorak, Qwerty speeds plummeted. However, in the last 3 years I was able to be proficient in both QWERTY and Dvorak, and I can switch between the two layouts on the same keyboard, with minimal mistakes. The trick to being proficient in both, is to use separate designed keyboards. I used a standard IBM style keyboard at work and touched typed QWERTY, and at home I used a Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 in Dvorak. Just by using two different feeling keyboards, my brain could tell the difference. After you get your speed up in both simultaneously, switching between both on a single keyboard comes naturally. I've never cared for Colemak. A tip, don't bother relabeling keys, use a piece of paper with your new layout on it, and look at that for reference. That way you can type Qwerty by sight, when you need to type a complicated password, or remap keys. Oh, the shortcut Windows Key + Space Bar, switches between your active keyboard layouts in Windows 7/8.
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If your speed is 120+ on qwerty.. don't bother..
that whole shtick about colmak / vorak being more efficient than qwerty is NOT true.. it's very anecdotal, and highly dependent upon the CONTENT that is being typed.
ONTOP of which... Qwerty actually has the more efficient vowels layout at the natural finger positions.
If you look for aeiou... on qwerty they're in the natural positions awef jio; 4 out of 5
on dvorak and colmak they're in the center row..
the CENTER ROW is NOT where your fingers rest.. laying your fingers across the home row is a totally n00ber thing..
any experienced typer will tell you their fingers do not rest there. on qwerty... awefjio; that is natural rest position..
This is before we go into custom layouts.. for example the y on qwerty is in a stupid place, because it forces your hand to likely pick up once in a while if you need to reach it..
Those layouts were created for ergonomic purposes; even a monkey knows efficiency is dependent on the user and time spent. Do your research first before spreading false information.
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Those layouts were created for ergonomic purposes; even a monkey knows efficiency is dependent on the user and time spent. Do your research first before spreading false information.
Hi jc337, and welcome to geekhack. tp4 is one of our resident “personalities” around here. Don’t take anything he says too seriously; you’ll get used to his silliness and his confusing writing style soon enough. No need for name-calling.
(With that said though, I don’t think you can fairly call his comment “false information”; most of it is pretty reasonable, though “If your speed is 120+ on qwerty don't bother” is just an opinion.)
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I changed to Dvorak last year August. Typing at wpm 75 for Dvorak.
I remember the layout by fingers muscle memory and all my keyboards are using blank keycaps.
However, I not really remember qwerty anymore. :(