standard bottom rowI am a bit unsure, so what layout version would that be?
Make this instead:Different layout? "The group" would only have to agree on one, those up there are just suggestions.
standard bottom rowI am a bit unsure, so what layout version would that be?
Make this instead:Different layout? "The group" would only have to agree on one, those up there are just suggestions.
I personally wouldn't get a keyboard without a Windows key. (That's part of the reasons why I sold my Model M.)
As for a space between the right control key and the left arrow key: be aware that this would induce the mentioned increase in price, because another form would be required to make a two-part case.
Matias would be making the whole thing and deliver it fully assembled.
Basically hence the large MOQ.
I'd really like a Matias TKL. I don't really care for disco lighting.
My suggestions is something that mirrors the circa 2010-2012 Filco Zero tenkeyless - just make it basic without a lot of features, make it as thin as possible with side print or blank PBT - and you should meet MOQ fairly rapidly.
And no tweaked weird layout!!
After I receive my 60% Matias GB boards I will get an idea as to how thin he can do this. Maybe I will run a GB (with Matias help) for a standard 87 ANSI in the future as this is something sorely missing in the marketplace.
My suggestions is something that mirrors the circa 2010-2012 Filco Zero tenkeyless - just make it basic without a lot of features, make it as thin as possible with side print or blank PBT - and you should meet MOQ fairly rapidly.
And no tweaked weird layout!!
After I receive my 60% Matias GB boards I will get an idea as to how thin he can do this. Maybe I will run a GB (with Matias help) for a standard 87 ANSI in the future as this is something sorely missing in the marketplace.
I like the sound of this :thumb: Although I would prefer top printed PBT.
Sorry to interupt, but I'll just jump in to answer a few questions...Quote from: MuiriumI like the short space bar, actually. But is there anything to stop us from using 1.25u mods? What Matias constraints should we know about?
1.25u mods require a 6.25u spacebar, which we don't have tooling for.
The only unusual caps on 88b_Jesterfox are the 1.5u Win/Menu/Fn keys and the 4.5u spacebar. Of course, the 1.5u size is common and we'll be supplying the 4.5u spacebar, so I don't see a problem for future sets to include these.
As an aside, I think the 1.5u mods are aesthetically nicer. The 1.25u mods have always struck me as stubby looking.Quote from: c137From the 60% Matias thread, I assume the same type of controller would be used:QuoteThe keyboard itself will not be programmable, but each key in the Fn layer will have its own unique keycode, which you can capture and assign to a macro on your PC/Mac. The side benefit of this is that you can assign different macros for different OSes, allowing you to use the same keyboard on multiple OSes, without conflicts.
Yes, it would be the same controller.Quote from: MuiriumYeah, not the kind of programmable that we value. A removeable controller would be a plus.
We can do a removable controller if there's space. Otherwise, we can offer a bare PCB option in the GB, that you could wire/solder to a programmable controller.
Also, if there's interest, we could include spare parts options in the GB -- similar to what we're doing for the 60% keyboard. For exmaple, you could buy an extra case for painting a different colour, etc.Quote from: c137I will also post this here because apparently there is some confusion:QuoteWhat some people obviously tend to overlook is: I won't build this keyboard. I won't buy the parts. I won't ship anything. I won't get any money. At all.
If a sufficient number of people in this interest check (on GH, DT and CB + MB) can decide on one layout (e.g. 88b_Jesterfox) that is supported by a majority, Matias Corporation is going to set up an order page for the actual group buy.
There buyers will order their version of choice (aluminum/polycarbonate, clicky/quiet/linear, maybe even ISO/ANSI) probably some with a fallback option (something like "I would like the ISO-DE with aluminum case and quiet switches, but if ISO doesn't reach MOQ I'll take ANSI instead"). We will pay at this site directly to Matias Corp, via Paypal/credit card/bank transfer.
Then they will finalize the product - while regularly reporting progress to the community -, make all the keyboards ordered and finally ship them to the buyers.
Just to add to this, there should be no fear that this project won't get done -- asuming that the MOQ conditions are met. We've never not finished a project, and we just recently starting doing keyboards in aluminum. Here's an example of one we recently completed for an old customer of ours...
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/KPA28BTW
http://www.newertech.com/images/pr/PR_NTkeypad.jpg
BTW, thanks and credit to c137 (Julian) for leading this GB so enthusiastically. I hope it goes through. We designed the switches to support backlight, so I'm eager to see it happen. Thanks Julian!
Because the backlit and non-backlit versions are related, we could accept a lower MOQ for the backlit version if both versions are being done. The exact number depends on the details of what is being made. However, I just wanted to say that we won’t be dogmatic about the MOQ being exactly 200 if the demand is still strong for both versions.
Regarding backlighting in a general sense, I think that backlighting is a helpful feature for many people. Although many people prefer no backlighting, it is still a legitimate preference to want backlighting, and I think it is good that this project is being launched. Because some of the people on the board oppose backlighting, that’s why I think it may be a good idea to do both versions
price seems good for aluminum board, problem is we will be stuck when it comes to replacing keycaps later on, that's a huge problem when you have nice looking custom board with worn out keycaps, and no possibilities to upgrade. Would love to try out the matias clicky switches, saw videos of them and they sound superb. I might reconsider if at least this GB plans to make the keycaps thick PBT dyesub, maybe 2 tone classic color to give the board nice look.
Saying this cause after shelling $300 for an aluminum board, that is it, no keycaps for it later on..... Will the aluminum boards be full aluminum housing?
maybe 2 tone classic color to give the board nice look.
Keycaps should not be a problem...
We are designing it to support both our keycaps and those by SP, and will have stabilizers available for both.
We'll also be selling our own keycaps soon, so when the backlit caps need replacing, you'll be able to just buy a set (rather than replace the whole keyboard).
Keycaps should not be a problem...
We are designing it to support both our keycaps and those by SP, and will have stabilizers available for both.
We'll also be selling our own keycaps soon, so when the backlit caps need replacing, you'll be able to just buy a set (rather than replace the whole keyboard).
Will you only be offering keycaps in back or white?
price seems good for aluminum board, problem is we will be stuck when it comes to replacing keycaps later on, that's a huge problem when you have nice looking custom board with worn out keycaps, and no possibilities to upgrade. Would love to try out the matias clicky switches, saw videos of them and they sound superb. I might reconsider if at least this GB plans to make the keycaps thick PBT dyesub, maybe 2 tone classic color to give the board nice look.
Saying this cause after shelling $300 for an aluminum board, that is it, no keycaps for it later on..... Will the aluminum boards be full aluminum housing?
Keycaps should not be a problem...
We are designing it to support both our keycaps and those by SP, and will have stabilizers available for both.
We'll also be selling our own keycaps soon, so when the backlit caps need replacing, you'll be able to just buy a set (rather than replace the whole keyboard).
What kind of keycaps? (material and printing type?)
I'm interested. Backlit and aluminum case :DWhite backlight, aluminum case and white keycaps. Premium 'Apple' style :D
I might reconsider if at least this GB plans to make the keycaps thick PBT dyesub, maybe 2 tone classic color to give the board nice look.
Both colours will be available.
Both colours will be available.
Does that mean I could get white backlit keycaps for that board? Would be nice ;-) I'm a PC user but I'm bored with black keyboards...
SP has tooling for ABS doubleshots.
SP has tooling for ABS doubleshots.
SP doesn't have the tooling for some of the modifiers though. I believe they don't have a spacebar mold either.
We'll be providing spacebars.
Yeah, those key choices are great.
Now, what layout is being favored?
Just as a side note, getting ready for the following discussions around Fn:
For me (and I believe for Jesterfox, too) it would be ideal, to have back, play/pause and next on F10 to F12 reachable via Fn. For mute, quieter, louder I would go for the print screen, scroll lock and pause keys directly, putting those functions back to the Fn layer on those keys.
I quite like F1-above-Q -- which is essentially the same as Jesterfox's suggestion, but with a gap between F12 and print screen. Without that gap, we lose the standard key groupings.
My only suggestion is to move the navigation cluster/etc 1 unit to the right like a regular ten keyless...
I know I know...
@Matias: optically and based on my own hands, I could live with option 4, but I wouldnd't like 5.
2 is pretty neat. However I'd like to have the Fn layer functions printed on F and D, while the space bar is left blank.
Direly need a DS ABS keycap set for Alps.
I agree with c137, option 2) is the best IMO. Let the Spacebar blank while printing on "D" and "F".
It will have the same general styling for the case as the 60% you spoke of. They are working on a mock-up/sketch that shows the direction the design is going to take.
I think the difference is terms of size concerning polycarbonate and aluminum will be negligible.
It will have the same general styling for the case as the 60% you spoke of. They are working on a mock-up/sketch that shows the direction the design is going to take.
I think the difference is terms of size concerning polycarbonate and aluminum will be negligible.
Nonetheless - I still want to know what the actual differences will be as I will want the thinner version even if it's only off by .05".
Yes, the TKL case will be as low-profile as we can make it. It follows the same design language as the 60%.
Also, now that we've confirmed that 6.25u spacebar tooling is available for ALPS, we don't need to use 4.5u spacebar + 1.5u mods. Instead, we can use the more popular 6.25u spacebar + 1.25u mods, as shown below...
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Yes, the TKL case will be as low-profile as we can make it. It follows the same design language as the 60%.
Also, now that we've confirmed that 6.25u spacebar tooling is available for ALPS, we don't need to use 4.5u spacebar + 1.5u mods. Instead, we can use the more popular 6.25u spacebar + 1.25u mods, as shown below...
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
BTW, if we made this to support dual-mount ALPS and Cherry, would there be greater interest?
All the keycaps in the layout follow the standard sets for Cherry, so replacing caps would be a no-brainer for Cherry switches.
Also, now that we've confirmed that 6.25u spacebar tooling is available for ALPS, we don't need to use 4.5u spacebar + 1.5u mods. Instead, we can use the more popular 6.25u spacebar + 1.25u mods, as shown below...
Matias,
Any chance that there's a version with non-staggered layout? I mean something like this (attached figure).
Many people told me that Matias clicky switch is the best of best. But I don't think I would go for a new keyboard just to try a new type of switch. Like many people here, I already own many keyboards.
I have updated the initial post to reflect the recent layout changes.
Btw. the 1.25U mods + 6.25U space bar are also well received on Computerbase.de.
Sorry if this has been answered, but would the polycarb case only come in glossy, or will there be matte/frosted options?
Sorry if this has been answered, but would the polycarb case only come in glossy, or will there be matte/frosted options?The polycarb case would be matte black. Most seem to prefer that.
Matias,
Any chance that there's a version with non-staggered layout? I mean something like this (attached figure).
Many people told me that Matias clicky switch is the best of best. But I don't think I would go for a new keyboard just to try a new type of switch. Like many people here, I already own many keyboards.
I suggest doing an interest check (in a separate thread) to see how many other people would buy a non-staggered layout.
Your best chance at achieving MOQs would be to have it support both Cherry and ALPS.
Sorry if this has been answered, but would the polycarb case only come in glossy, or will there be matte/frosted options?The polycarb case would be matte black. Most seem to prefer that.
Okay :thumb:
If you are worried about MOQ - consider having Matias contact MassDrop; they sold over 400 KBC Poker II's w/ MX Clears a few weeks ago.
MassDrop
I think the interest expressed in the project is too low to move to the next stage. I think the probability of success is low.