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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: ADFX_Pixy on Sat, 27 September 2014, 05:48:42
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Hello Geekhack community! I have a quick question about PBT keycaps. Are they worth paying the extra bucks especially if your keyboard came with ABS keycaps when you bought them? I'm just wondering because I heard that they retain their texture and don't polish like the ABS keycaps. I'm in no rush in buying keycaps since I received my Ducky Shine 3 yesterday but the long term durability of the keys concern me (not them actually breaking but the keys polishing out). For those who switched from ABS to PBT caps, what made you switch? And can anybody recommend a nice, reputable shop where I can purchase PBT caps for future reference?
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Depends on your personal preference and on the type of switch you have. In short though: Yes, they are worth buying.
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I prefer ABS feel over PBT but yea the original PBT texture last way longer than the ABS one which tends to get shiny pretty quickly in my experience. Nowdays I don't mind the material of the cap as much as I mind the method used for making the symbols and the profile of the cap itself, I prefer 'Cherry' profile over any other out there at the moment.
If you want to try Cherry profile PBT you can find them here: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/category&path=62
also fairly often there is a group buy happening for such keys. Be warned they tend to get on the expensive side so prepare your wallet. :thumb:
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Cherry PBT dyesubs>GMK/Cherry ABS doubleshots>errythang.
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Cherry PBT dyesubs>GMK/Cherry ABS doubleshots>errythang.
Agreed. Though I gotta say, when GMK caps get worn down they're really comfortable to type on.
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I could wax poetic for hours about how much I like PBT. The texture on them is absolutely divine to type on; they have a very pleasing, dry and ceramic-like texture. Since trying my first PBT set I've since ordered 3 more I liked them so much. I hate that slick, greasy feeling that ABS keys develop so for me, PBT is a real treat to type on.
To give a comparison of the durability of the texture on PBT, I had used the stock ABS keys on my Filco for ~3 months and they were already starting to noticeably shine, whereas I've been using a cheap PBT set for the last 10 months and they still feel 90% as textured as they did when brand new. I cant speak to how they compare to GMK ABS since I've never owned or used any GMK keys (yet).
If you want a cheap way to try out PBT, BangGood has blank 87 key and top print 104 key sets for $18 and $24 with free shipping. They are medium-thickness, OEM profile keys and the texture on them is wonderful. Be aware though, ordering from BG is very slow since its coming out of China. It took just shy of 4 weeks for my order to come in.
http://www.banggood.com/buy/PBT.html (http://www.banggood.com/buy/PBT.html)
One of our sponsors, MechanicalKeyboards, also carries numerous PBT sets including some from Ducky. Though the sets they carry are more expensive than the BG sets ($40+), you get a ton more color options and many of them are thick PBT. They even carry some of the new double-shot, backlit-compatible, PBT key sets.
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=40 (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=40)
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If you want a cheap way to try out PBT, BangGood has blank 87 key and top print 104 key sets for $18 and $24 with free shipping. They are medium-thickness, OEM profile keys and the texture on them is wonderful. Be aware though, ordering from BG is very slow since its coming out of China. It took just shy of 4 weeks for my order to come in.
http://www.banggood.com/buy/PBT.html (http://www.banggood.com/buy/PBT.html)
There is a US warehouse for the 87 key set. Ships at regular rate - 3 to 6 business days, instead of coming from China.
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Checkout the Leopold thick PBT sets. I love my navy blanks.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59780.0
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some people don't like them, but I think they're majority favored over ABS.
Personally, I'd rather have GMK.
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Depends.... There are many here that think a keycap is a good value at $50.
At a reasonable price thick pbt is a nice addition for deepening the sound and lasts longer than abs for sheen.
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YES ABSOLUTELY.
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I would highly recommend the Leopold PBT sets on eBay for ~$40 from username widebasket.
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PBT is brittle and usually feels "dry", some people dislike that. POM FTW!
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I would highly recommend the Leopold PBT sets on eBay for ~$40 from username widebasket.
These are excellent caps for the price.
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I quite like my DS cherry sets that have a nice shine to them. I've tried some non cherry PBT and wasn't super impressed. I'd still like to try some BSP ones but finding a source seems to be quite hard with sherry in the wind.
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This is just my personal opinion, but I never felt that the difference in feel was really significant (compared to for example, a difference in profile).
I like them because they develop less shine, and on light/white colors they have no discoloration if you leave them in the sun. When it comes to how they feel, there is a difference but I like both. Might actually prefer ABS a little because it does not feel as hard and they tend to have a slicker surface that feels nicer on the fingers (due to the prod. process not the material). But all the keyboards I currently own have PBT because that is what they came with.
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For me, PBT is much better than ABS. It is more durable, but the main thing for me is the feel. PBT always feels dry, even after prolonged and intensive use. ABS feels clammy, even after brief use. In addition, depending upon the manufacturer, PBT can have a nice pumice-like texture, but I also like the ones that are relatively smooth.
In addition, unless I am using blanks, I like dye-sublimated legends on PBT.
My vintage IBM keyboards all have dye-sub PBT keycaps, as do my new Topre-switch keyboards, the RF 87u and HHKB Pro 2.
I just bought a Kul ES-87, which came with thin ABS keycaps. The first thing I did was replace them with dye-sub thick PBT keycaps; the board now looks, sounds, and feels much better.
Having said all this, I also have some beautiful double-shot ABS keycap sets (Dolch, Olivetti, vintage Cherry, and Wyse); I like these for their looks and durability of the legends, but I much prefer the feel of PBT.
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Recently bought the Ducky Blank Yellow PBT keycaps to go along with my Filco Majestouch Ninja with the stealthy look (well yellow isn't really that stealth). My first impressions is they feel so so so so much better than the ABS keycaps. Persoanlly I prefer the feel of the feel of ABS keycaps with UV coating, but they seem to wear out too fast for me and shine and get all sticky after prolonged usage while my PBT keycaps do not. Another thing to note is that most of the PBT keycaps are thick keycaps and they make a different sound when bottoming out, like a rounder and deeper sound which I like very much. So it's all up to preference, some good quality ABS doubleshot keycaps aren't as bad as people say that are and it's all up to durability.
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Thanks for the feedback. Are there any PBT caps that are backlight compatible? I don't see any sets that would work w/ my backlight.
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Thanks for the feedback. Are there any PBT caps that are backlight compatible? I don't see any sets that would work w/ my backlight.
The double-shot PBT+POM keys from Vortex are backlight compatible
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=40 (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=40)
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I recently bought some Vortex PBT caps and very much prefer them over the ABS caps that came with my board. The ABS caps were crap though so I'm not sure how much better PBT is vs a nice ABS set.
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I'm also having the same problem deciding between ABS and PBT. The PBT keycaps in my place costs exactly twice as the doubleshot ABS ones. The thing is that I can get my PBT keycaps blank and I generally prefer PBT while the difference text colours and keycap colours seems nice too so yea..
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imsto thick PBT sets > all.
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As a lover of Alps and IBM boards, I'm forced to have PBT keycaps. The older keyboards mainly have PBT keycaps. I do have a set of extremely worn Model M caps on my SSK which show huge signs of usage. The tops are practically worn smooth and I love that feeling so I keep those caps in usage. I will say that the caps from a Wang 725 keyboard are nice though. I think they're on par with BSP PBT smoothness.
However, I find that most PBT caps aren't smooth and I really like the smooth feeling of Cherry doubleshot ABS caps. They are my favorite caps.
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I really enjoy thick PBT, it gives each keystroke a "heavier" feel that I like. I still prefer double shot ABS, and nothing really compares to OG cherry DS.
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imsto thick PBT sets > all.
cherry dyesubs > imsto dyesubs
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Some people like leather seats in their car, some people like cloth seats.
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It is all personal preference.
I prefer PBT key caps because they feel as if they have more body and consistence under my fingers, are very slow to polish (shine from wear) and because I distaste the slippery/greasy feel of ABS. For those reasons, PBT is worth it to me.
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Cherry PBT dyesubs>GMK/Cherry ABS doubleshots>errythang.
i'd put Cherry PBT dyesubs on par with Topre! They are by far the best caps I've ever typed on.
Don't know why people prefere ABS over PBT, makes no sense to me. Could someone enlighten me?
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Cherry PBT dyesubs>GMK/Cherry ABS doubleshots>errythang.
i'd put Cherry PBT dyesubs on par with Topre! They are by far the best caps I've ever typed on.
Don't know why people prefere ABS over PBT, makes no sense to me. Could someone enlighten me?
IMO, Topre dyesubs = **** tier compared to Cherry. I don't like rough texture at all... Cherry ones are smooth and dry.
The only ABS keycaps I like are Cherry and GMK - they feel like Cherry dyesubs, just a tad rougher.
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Such a hard judgement based only on the structure :/
I like the rough texture more than the smooth one on cherrys, but the most important factor is the durability!
I still say they are on par! Both are top-notch!
Shiny caps is what I absolutely dislike, no matter how awesome the ABS caps looks, I wouldn't spend a dime on them.
Edit: To answer the OPs question, yes they worth every cent!
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Massdrop has a deal. (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/vortex-backlit-doubleshot-pbt-keycaps) I just bought the black set. Unfortunately, they're out of white, but I like the look of these better than the transluscent ones on mechanicalkeyboards.com.
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I have PBT and ABS on hand, so I can switch at will.
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The textured feel of blank HHKB caps is addictive.
But some switches like blues just seem to feel better with thinner plastic.
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Checkout the Leopold thick PBT sets. I love my navy blanks.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59780.0
wow, i saw these and had to pick up a navy side printed set.
thank you for the link, every time i see you post its something amazing/helpful . . . stay based! :thumb: :cool:
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I just got a set of vortex PBT caps, I can say that the feeling of the texture feels better than the current stock ABS set that I have on my CM storm QFR.
I got them for 33$ on MassDrop and I can say that it worth the money.
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Got my PBT keycaps RMAed for new ones and they sure feel awesome. I have the stock Filco Majestouch Ninja side printed thin ABS on hand and I personally prefer the feels of the thick PBT keycaps. To be honest if both materials had the same durability and I was to only judge them based on their texture and sound they make when you type I wouln't mind going with either as for me personally I feel that the difference is subtle and I can deal with either. I bought the PBT keycaps as I need something other than my black Majestouch Ninja keycaps to go around. They are definitely worth for the quality and the durability.
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My grey PBT bortex keycaps from massdrop just came in and I put them on my board for a trial run today.
Unfortunately they don't have a 1.75x Rshift so I probably won't be using them for long until I get another board to use them on.
It feels really good though. It looks like carbon and it feels like carbon too lol but it's actually plastic. It's really great!
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At the moment I prefer some ABS over PBT and some PBT over ABS, they both have their pros and cons.
I feel like just like ABS keycaps, PBT keycaps are also not made equal.
For example, most PBT feels really harsh. Only the Poker 2 PBT somehow feels really nice and comfortable to use.
So yeah I think PBT are worth it but you might have to try a few until you find the right one for you.
For me, Poker 2 PBT is the best. (Trying to get myself a full size set, too bad Vortex messed up the Massdrop order and made Cherry profile instead of OEM)
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PBT is brittle and usually feels "dry", some people dislike that. POM FTW!
JOIN THE POM MASTERRACE
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I've been wanting to try POM, but couldn't find a full set anywhere that's not rainbow.
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Any black Cherry G80/G81-*L* or rebrand (such as Das II). You don't have these things in 'murrica?
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To me, the stock dye-sub PBT caps on my RF 87u, HHKB Pro 2, and IBM Model F and Model M boards are sublime. These tend to be rather smooth in texture and they maintain a dry feel. All these stock caps are quite thin. PBT doesn't have to be thick to be good. In fact, the thin caps seem to be part of the design of the Topre and IBM keyboards. It is as if the caps were tuned to their keyboards.
Finding the right "tuning" can be difficult with Cherry mx, and third-party keycap sets for these keyboards can vary quite a lot in texture, from those as smooth as ABS doubleshots to as rough as the pumice-like set that I got from Keycool.
Recently, I received my Granite set, which has to be one of the handsomest sets in existence. It has an intermediate texture, a bit on the rough side, but I like it. However, I am having trouble typing on the Granite set because I am not accustomed to a flat profile or spherical tops on the keys.
One of the best values in PBT keycaps are the Leopold sets from a Korean vendor on eBay. The caps are very well made and fit snugly but not too tightly on the stems. There is no detectable warp, even on the spacebar. The texture is on the smooth side, but with the agreeable PBT dryness. The printed sets are lasered rather than dye-sub, as you would expect given the relatively low price. Unfortunately, I found that I cannot use these caps right out of the box on my WASD keyboard because the stabilizer wires rub on the inside front edge of the stabilized keycaps. The caps could be made to work by shaving/sanding, but I decided against doing this. Instead, I put a mix of two sets on my Novatouch -- dark navy blanks for the spacebar and mods; white front-printed for the alphanumeric keys and arrow keys. It looks great, and these PBT caps seem to be an excellent weight for the Novatouch, which I am typing on now.
All this is in answer to the OP's question, "[Are] PBT caps really worth it?" For me, definitely yes. Although I have some ABS doubleshots that look great, I very much prefer the feel of PBT. On the other hand, I like a high profile such as OEM, and while high-profile PBT sets exist, they are harder to find than lower profiles such as Cherry profile.
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I love the PBT on my 87u. Have been looking around for a PBT set for my cherry boards also. ABS gets shiny quickly.
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I'd like to try PBT too! I think I'm gonna wait for my Novatouch (that I haven't ordered yet ...) and I'll most likely jump on Ivan's GB for the white/beige Vortex PBT set. Vortex PBT set are thick right?
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I'd like to try PBT too! I think I'm gonna wait for my Novatouch (that I haven't ordered yet ...) and I'll most likely jump on Ivan's GB for the white/beige Vortex PBT set. Vortex PBT set are thick right?
oui, très épais
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I'd like to try PBT too! I think I'm gonna wait for my Novatouch (that I haven't ordered yet ...) and I'll most likely jump on Ivan's GB for the white/beige Vortex PBT set. Vortex PBT set are thick right?
oui, très épais
Good thank you.
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PBT or ABS doesn't necessarily mean its bad/good. Many different kinds og pbt/abs. I've tried BSP (which is what people call cherry dyesub right) and it's pretty good. It has a kind of extra smooth feeling. I'd describe it as something which has really sweet taste, almost too sweet. On the downside it doesn't have the same grip as GMK. Therefore gmk has more utility imo. Also GMK has scoops and not dots or nibs, and I like scoops more. I like the grip which GMK has over the slipperyness of cherry dyesub, so it's better for typing and especially for gaming imo. The first ptbt caps I tried were the caps which came with a Keycool. They had a really rought texture which I really liked. Do any any premium caps, abs or pbt have a similar texture?
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Going to wait til I get my Orion set from pimpmykeyboard, if I don't love that with burning passion Im going to forever give up the idea of ABS caps.
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I do really like the Ducky PBT caps I put on my Filco board. They last longer and the typing experiance is imo better than with they thin, stock caps that came with the board.