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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: supamesican on Fri, 03 October 2014, 18:36:27

Title: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: supamesican on Fri, 03 October 2014, 18:36:27
My mom has finger pain from slight arthritis and typing only makes it worse. Shes using a crappy slim rubber dome keyboard right now, yeah it needs to go.  What is the best key switch for arthritic fingers to type on?
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 03 October 2014, 19:01:11
I have arthritis in my thumbs and find MX Brown the easiest on the joints.

Good luck!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 03 October 2014, 19:05:33
I don't know firsthand, but I suspect that tactile feedback is very useful in clearly signalling when the stroke has registered.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: terrpn on Fri, 03 October 2014, 19:18:06
speaking mx..............probably reds or browns, however if her fingers lose feeling or go numb sometimes the bump-click in blues works better because you can feel the switch. sometimes if you have problematic fingers (as i do-- from injury while on active military duty) you tend to bottom out more if you do not train your fingers.

if she does not mind a full size board get her a hi-tek, space invaders with black switches.......... NMB, etc.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: supamesican on Fri, 03 October 2014, 20:40:17

if she does not mind a full size board get
Thats all she'll use so thanks for the recommendations.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: terrpn on Fri, 03 October 2014, 21:39:08
here's one at 64.99, which is basically 50 bux with shipping or make him an offer :thumb:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NMB-Technologies-RT8255C-5-Pin-DIN-AT-Mechanical-Keyboard-w-PS-2-Adapter-Cable-/291245637468?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item43cf97bf5c

this person is very negotiable

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NMB-Technologies-RT8255C-5-Pin-DIN-AT-Mechanical-Keyboard-w-PS-2-Adapter-Cable-/261612052355?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3ce94b1f83

Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: SonOfSonOfSpock on Sat, 04 October 2014, 00:32:10
I don't know if there is a wrong answer. Maltron uses MX black switches in their boards.

There might be factors other than keyswitch that can help. Perhaps an ergonomic keyboard with split halves or tenting?
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: Oobly on Sat, 04 October 2014, 06:46:51
Trampoline modded or oring'ed MX Browns should be good. 62g ErgoClears would also work. Thwy're light but have decent feedback and the trampoline or oring reduces shock on bottom out. Also Matias quiet switches if you don't want to do mods. They have rubber pieces in the slider which reduce shock on bottom out and release.

With MX and Alps you can learn to type without bottoming out if you have enough sensitivity in your fingers which can help too.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: hoggy on Sun, 05 October 2014, 15:31:19
Comfort keyboards do a fairly cheap split keyboard with a really light activation of about 20g. 

I think you'll just have to find the keyboard she can get on with, and that will mean trying out a few.  You might find taking her to a normal computer store will help you get her thinking about what might work for her.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: supamesican on Sun, 05 October 2014, 19:27:00

I think you'll just have to find the keyboard she can get on with, and that will mean trying out a few.  You might find taking her to a normal computer store will help you get her thinking about what might work for her.
I think I'm gonna take her to microcenter, see what switch types work best for her since they have mechanical boards there, then probably come back here and see if anyone knows of a particularly good board with those switch types.

Thanks everyone,
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: SonOfSonOfSpock on Sun, 05 October 2014, 23:54:01
Microcenter is a good choice for mechanical boards as far as brick and mortar stores. From my experiences at the one in Denver, they don't have any display models, but they are fine with opening up the boxes for you to try. Besides the Cherry MX boards in the gaming section, they had some Matias boards in the Mac department.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: davkol on Tue, 07 October 2014, 10:50:11
30g Topre. Period.
If you can't get Topre, Goldtouch rubber domes have very soft landing or you can mod linear Cherry MX switches (heavy keycaps with soft-landing pads from EK, Korean springs and lube).

That being said, does she type for living? Can she touch type? What's the budget? Is she seeing a professional?

There were two or three threads about this last year. You can try to find them.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 07 October 2014, 12:02:45
How much motion can you accomplish prior to feeling pain.

is it the GRIP type motion when your fingers bend that causes pain..  OR is merely holding your finger firm enough to cause pain..

Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: notsonerd on Tue, 07 October 2014, 12:19:15
Blacks do seem to be the least harsh to bottom-out among the Cherry MX switches, but would the travel and increased pressure going farther down hurt her fingers?

If she can avoid bottoming-out, maybe she could try light touch-typing. It takes almost no effort to do using brown switches. With this, she could avoid any harsh feedback that might hurt her fingers. It would have to be learned, however. I'm still trying to find the right amount of pressure for every key so it's almost like I'm typing on reds at the moment with all the typos I've had typing this one message.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: supamesican on Tue, 07 October 2014, 13:50:33
Can't imagine black being worse than the rubber done and scissor switches keyboards she uses now. Though learning how to use the browns like that may be the best option, since it sounds like that would take the least amount of force and movement and still get the tactile feed back.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: davkol on Tue, 07 October 2014, 14:44:25
The biggest issue is harsh landing, friction/sticking and possibly aggressive rebound. No Cherry MX switch will help with any of that (except sticking, if compared to a broken rubber dome), unless not bottomed out or modded (dampened at the very least).
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 07 October 2014, 14:49:12
What about the Matias Quiet or Dampened Cream Alps? They've got the nice cushioning in the switch.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 07 October 2014, 14:52:18
What about the Matias Quiet or Dampened Cream Alps? They've got the nice cushioning in the switch.


If it's the LANDING that's causing pain... then the switch type doesn't really matter as long as it has 2mm actuation..

the rest comes down to technique, and not bottoming out harshly.   


To clarify, you should still bottom out.. that just makes for good typing.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: davkol on Tue, 07 October 2014, 14:53:17
I've always been curious about this; what's bottoming out on dampened Alps-like switches like? I've used only old salmon/cream dampened Alps and the impact has felt quite harsh to me, quite in contrast with the cushiony upstroke.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 07 October 2014, 14:54:38
I don't recall the dampened cream Alps very well but I recall the Matias Quiet switch having that nice cushiony feeling on the upstroke on the bottom out too.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 07 October 2014, 16:08:08
The biggest issue is harsh landing, friction/sticking and possibly aggressive rebound. No Cherry MX switch will help with any of that (except sticking, if compared to a broken rubber dome), unless not bottomed out or modded (dampened at the very least).
I think that’s overly pessimistic. A Cherry MX switch actuates about halfway through the stroke, meaning that keypresses that go at least that far reliably actuate it; by contrast, most rubber dome switches actuate at the bottom and sometimes fails to actuate when not mashed hard all the way down.

Untrained typists routinely use more than twice as much force as required to press the keys. On some rubber domes, this is almost a requirement to avoid occasional skipped letters.

However, it’s possible to type on an MX switch (or other mechanical switch) with light springy keypresses, using just a bit more than the minimum required force. Even if the key ends up going all the way to the bottom of the stroke, it can at least be very low impact by that point.

* * *

Both Matias switches and dampened cream Alps switches are relatively stiff. If you modded them to use lighter springs they might be okay for someone with low finger strength. Otherwise, low-force Topre switches or brown MX switches might work. I don’t think O rings are necessary or even necessarily helpful.

Note that if switches get *too* light, then it’s no longer possible to rest the fingers on them without accidentally actuating some, which might also be undesirable.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: davkol on Tue, 07 October 2014, 17:20:32
You're right that it's possible and I actually type like that, but it takes time and effort to get to this point.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 08 October 2014, 01:18:16
Blacks do seem to be the least harsh to bottom-out among the Cherry MX switches, but would the travel and increased pressure going farther down hurt her fingers?

If she can avoid bottoming-out, maybe she could try light touch-typing. It takes almost no effort to do using brown switches. With this, she could avoid any harsh feedback that might hurt her fingers. It would have to be learned, however. I'm still trying to find the right amount of pressure for every key so it's almost like I'm typing on reds at the moment with all the typos I've had typing this one message.

Actually Clears have the best spring profile for softening the bottom out shock. Clear springs with Black sliders are a good choice for light actuation and learning to not bottom out. Add orings or trampolines and this is probable the best switch type (Ghost Blacks with orings). However, if you want tactile feedback, Clears are better, but the force required goes up a touch and can be fatiguing.

I still think Browns with orings is best. Light springs, some tactility so you know when the switches actuate and softened bottom out shock should all help.
Title: Re: Best key switch type for ergonomics/arthritic fingers?
Post by: MKB on Sun, 26 October 2014, 03:38:37
A reply to the OP.  I would start with blues or browns.  I would avoid blacks as they require a lot of force.