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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Kreation on Sun, 12 October 2014, 17:35:00
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Is there any way to tell roughly how worn out a cherry switch is? Aside from it being completely shot and feeling awful, I'm wondering if there are some visual indicators inside the switch that would reveal the approximate wear and tear on a key switch.
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I should test this with my QFR and my DS3
Thanks for the project idea!
I can't think of any off the top of my head.
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What actually in a Cherry MX switch wear out?
If the slider wears, perhaps it could be measured to see if it has become thinner.
If the metal contacts wear, perhaps they too could be measured.
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Worn in switches feel the best! Vintage blacks/browns/blue/clears/etc all feel smoother the more worn they are. Usually people will spend more on switches that are well-worn.
Obviously "worn out" could mean other things like beat to death and broken or filled with grit & grime but typically older switches are the best kind of switches.
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You can try using coins to measure the weight required to depress the buttons. The blue switch on my 6 year old Das keyboard got lighter by 5-10 grams. Almost like a red switch with a click.
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You can try using coins to measure the weight required to depress the buttons. The blue switch on my 6 year old Das keyboard got lighter by 5-10 grams. Almost like a red switch with a click.
Reds and blues have the same springs ;)
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You are right! But they really feel different. I did an experiment and my 6 year old blue switches require approximately 40.4g to depress, and 49.3g to actuate.
This is lighter than the 55/60grams needed to actuate on a new switch ( http://m.imgur.com/a/r1BNN)
The bump midway is almost unnoticeable too, but the click remains.
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On old Cherry Browns (or any other tactile variety), you can see the tactile bump on the slider physically worn down. This obviously happens for linear switches as well, but you could argue it actually improves the smoothness for those switches.
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You are right! But they really feel different. I did an experiment and my 6 year old blue switches require approximately 40.4g to depress, and 49.3g to actuate.
This is lighter than the 55/60grams needed to actuate on a new switch ( http://m.imgur.com/a/r1BNN)
The bump midway is almost unnoticeable too, but the click remains.
yep.
the bump requires force to push past. bigger bump when new = more force. smaller bump after being worn = less force. no more bump = same force as red switch.
although, a blue switch is very different internally to a red and that may or may not create a slightly different force curve.
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You are right! But they really feel different. I did an experiment and my 6 year old blue switches require approximately 40.4g to depress, and 49.3g to actuate.
This is lighter than the 55/60grams needed to actuate on a new switch ( http://m.imgur.com/a/r1BNN (http://m.imgur.com/a/r1BNN))
The bump midway is almost unnoticeable too, but the click remains.
This sort of data isn't very useful, if you didn't make any measurements, when the switches were new. There are quite big differences among different batches. For example, I've just read a review of some brand new cheap gaming keyboard that had 16 cN difference between some switches.
Is there any way to tell roughly how worn out a cherry switch is? Aside from it being completely shot and feeling awful, I'm wondering if there are some visual indicators inside the switch that would reveal the approximate wear and tear on a key switch.
Blues/greens/whites click inconsistently and may lose tactility, but that's it. Mechanically, MX switches get only better with wear, although inconsistently across the board, of course. However, it doesn't tell anything about the *function* of the switch itself.
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Yup, davkol points out that the actuation forces from the spring have a tolerance zone and aren't perfect. The sliders, springs, and the points in the housing that contact the sliders should wear. I think if you had some calipers, you could take measurements to check the dimensions on the sliders. Compare those to new sliders or specs on the Cherry site and you'll probably see differences.
If someone had access to a lab, you could also figure out some mechanical properties of the spring and see how they stacked up to new springs.