geekhack
geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: o2dazone on Sun, 28 June 2009, 23:34:47
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I tried AVG, hearing so many great things about it. Unfortunately, I could not get it to shut off completely. (There was a service running that did nothing when attempting to End Process it, and had no brute force method in services.msc). I don't turn my machine on and off a whole lot (I'm a standby man...maybe reboot once a week), but I would like it so that it wasn't running all the time.
Really, all I need is a lightweight antivirus that I can use to scan individual big files. I use Jotti (http://virusscan.jotti.org/) for smaller files, but wouldn't mind something local, to scan bigger files. I don't need this AV to run in the background, or to sniff my email, or even to keep "spyware" off my machine or any of those wonderful resource gobbling applications. I just need to be able to right click an exe, rar or zip and scan it for viruses. When it's done, it dismisses itself and doesn't run in the background.
Any recommendations?
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I use NOD32 and they have these legit usernames and passwords that they give out so you don't have to pay. I never got a virus or spyware and I download pirated games all the time.
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Thanks, I'll check it out. I'm about a week away from formatting, so once I find something I like, I'll end up adding it to my nLite build of XP.
Anymore suggestions?
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Microsoft Security Essentials seems pretty good. I'm using it right now, and I've been quite impressed with it. The only thing is, it will only silently update if you have automatic updates enabled for all of Windows (which I don't). Mine is set to let me know when there are updates for Windows, which means that everyday Windows Update pops up trying to get me to download virus definitions.
(Get it here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Antivirus/Microsoft-Security-Essentials.shtml)
What I was using before (and what I'll probably switch back to) is Symantec Endpoint Protection. This is Symantec's enterprise grade security product with antivirus, zero day protection, and a firewall. It automatically updates and never gets in your way, but it still finds viruses. Even though you have to pay for it, it never expires. It has no product keys or activation or any other "DRM", it just installs and works forever. It's meant for large businesses but individuals can buy it too.
(Get it here: http://shop.symantecstore.com/store/symnasmb/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsSmbPage/ThemeID.106400/productID.80779800)
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Interesting
I'll give those both a testdrive despite my natural reaction to recoil in fear when seeing the word Symantec lol
I don't run Windows Updates either, just as long as it's not chugging along in the background, or if I can turn that ability off, I'm fine.
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o2 why dont you like virus protection or OS patches?
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I've been without an antivirus for close to 5 years...I use Adblock Plus and Noscript - and all my mail is filtered through Gmail. I never get so drunk to the point that I would just randomly run stuff on my machine unless I knew what it was. I'm not saying I'm bulletproof, I'm just sharp enough to never get a virus (and I download from some very shady places at times). I just don't need an antivirus scanning everything that goes in and out of my computer...it's just not necessary. On occasion, I do need something that will scan an individual file that might be too big to submit to online file virus scanners.
As for OS patches. Same reason...because most Windows updates are "critical patches" that do things like fix vulnerabilities in stuff I don't use (telnet, netmeeting, adobe PDF viewers), I don't bother. I use this (http://ikings94.blogspot.com/2007/09/windows-tinyxp-platinum-edition-2.html) version of Windows XP, and it's recent 'enough' for me. And don't get me wrong, I'm a huge security nut (truecrypting my jump drives lol), I just don't find it necessary...and so far so good.
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thats an interesting approach, and if it works for you thats great and all; but I take it you're doing it this way though mostly on "principle" as opposed to necessity (in other words its not because of any perceived "performance hit" on your cpu or anything that an actively scanning antivirus program would bring).
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Well, I'm kind of big on not letting sh!t running all the time. In fact, I even turn off my printer spooler (the service that collects available printers) if I'm not using it. While it's a small amount of memory, I just don't like it being there...
Antiviruses have caused me grief in the passed, and while it shows that it takes a small footprint, it still is scanning everything being moved in and out of the machine, and that's what bothers me the most. Last I need is something to be bottlenecking because the AV software can't keep up.
But in all, if I can circumvent having an application running all the time, by just being a better user, then so be it.
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Don't want to start a flamewar but also I don't want anyone get a wrong impression of geekhackers. I'm sure most of us know that the three most important security principles are (especially when running a Microsoft OS):
1. Keep all software current (updates!)
2. Use a good virus scanner (which means one with near real time signature updates), and
3. Make backups regularly.
Not doing the first two is just careless and I even think there should be some law to punish people for letting their machines turn into spam relaying zombie bots.
Not offending you personally o2dazone. If it works out for you, alright. I wish you luck though. You'll need it >:)
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I'll throw another vote in for nod32, powerful set of features, and a lot of room for customization which was the biggest selling point for me. Relatively inexpensive as well.
I run it pretty much as an on-demand virus scan on the local file system, with the real time scan running for the web.
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Oh, I'm not offended - to each his/her own. I'm a firm believer that the first step to being secure is being knowledgeable. If I can use this knowledge to prevent me from having to manage an antivirus and updates, then it saves me more time. Which is time I can use for more fun things like reading forums, or doing freelance.
I'll give nod32 a run on the weekend- sounds pretty good.
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I may be nuts, but I hate virus scanners of any type...
I've never had a real problem with viruses, so I don't worry too much.
The reason these continuous scanning options exist is because the average user is not savvy enough to know what is safe, and what isn't.
My thought is, if I can keep up to date, don't download things from suspicious places, and block advertising, I'm not likely to have a virus/malware issue.
Then there's those "new" computers from the big companies...with the effect of a virus attack at startup because of all the useless junk pre-installed...sometimes I wish I could just read machine code, and delete all the fluff from programs...
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I agree. In all the years I've owned computers, most of them were spent without any AV. During all that time, I've only ever had three viruses, and two were directly the result of my own stupidity (involving software piracy in my reckless formative years =P)... Having some cop on should always be the first line of defense.
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I use Symantec AV Corporate edition, and I have never had a virus problem. It's not anywhere near as crappy as Norton. I don't put myself in situations, normally, that expose me to virii, but you never know what hitches a ride on torrents and such.
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Oh, I'm not offended - to each his/her own. I'm a firm believer that the first step to being secure is being knowledgeable. If I can use this knowledge to prevent me from having to manage an antivirus and updates, then it saves me more time. Which is time I can use for more fun things like reading forums, or doing freelance.
I'll give nod32 a run on the weekend- sounds pretty good.
I completely agree. Personally I have not been running any anti virus software since early 2000s as well.
It just hit me back then when I first installed Norton Antivirus and it made my system much slower than any virus had ever made it :D
If you know what you are doing and close out holes in the OS itself (as in some major Microsoft patches from SP etc) then there is no point to have a virus scanner running constantly in the background, slowing your system down.
I only open trusted files and don't run pirate software on my main machine. If something is fishy I check it on a VM first!
Edit: Nod32 is actually pretty decent though, there is a portable edition too. I am a big fan of portable software and like my Windows as clean and untouched as possible, so that's a big plus for NOD32.
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Is Linux an option here?
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Linux would be an option if I could get Photoshop to work in Wine :(
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What about running PS inside a VM and use Linux for everything else? Although, there are performance penalties for using VMs, which may or may not be a problem depending on whether you run some of the more system intensive features or not.
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I do actually, all my photo editing is done with Smart Objects, which retain the original size of everything. That's not to say I can't dual boot though - considering I almost never go back to Photoshop once I start coding something.
But then again, the main reason for all this would to be protected by some suspicious files, and most anything I would need for Linux would be OSS, and not laden with viruses in the first place
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Augh, now you have me wanting to dual boot my machine again :( damn you
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I've been running without any AV for years now... having an external router with firewall functionality helps a lot though. Update your browser once in a while and use a safe e-mail app (I'm mostly on webmail these days anyway), that's pretty much it. Oh, and all the autorun stuff is disabled here.
I don't have any mobile system that might be exposed to questionable WLANs though... I guess you're well advised to keep Windows up to date then.
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o2dazone writes:
> Linux would be an option if I could get Photoshop to work in Wine :(
What's wrong with The Gimp?
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Gimp isn't exactly the most intuitive program in the world... I prefer Krita for graphics editing in Linux, although I dont know how it stacks up feature wise compared with Gimp or PS.
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The Gimp doesn't really support a lot of the advanced features that I use in Photoshop, like smart objects and smart filters. And when I'm doing print, it helps to do stuff in CMYK (I'm not sure if the gimp has implemented that...they didn't have it when I used it).
Anywho, it's getting a little off topic. I'll be trying NOD32 this weekend, along with a few others - still taking suggestions
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I know what I do and therefore don't need anti-virus.
Sigh. Modern malware infects your system without you knowing just by browsing the web. Even on respectable sites. Even on geekhack. Good article, German only, unfortunately:
http://www.heise.de/security/Einfallstor-Browser--/artikel/115254 (http://www.heise.de/security/Einfallstor-Browser--/artikel/115254)
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you think I'm going to fall for that trick? That link has malware written all over it :P
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Avast (http://www.avast.com/)?
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Nice, Avast, forgot about that one thanks
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Web pages infect Windows PCs via new DirectShow hole (http://www.h-online.com/security/Web-pages-infect-Windows-PCs-via-new-DirectShow-hole--/news/113695)
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I am a fan of Malware's Bits and Bites & BitDefender 2009.
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Web pages infect Windows PCs via new DirectShow hole (http://www.h-online.com/security/Web-pages-infect-Windows-PCs-via-new-DirectShow-hole--/news/113695)
Yeah, ActiveX is full of vulnerabilities...who woulda thunkit :P
I've also heard of BitDefender, I'll have to give that a go sometime. I formatted my machine this weekend but not before trying out a few virus scanners. I ended up using Avast because funny enough, I was able to get it in a "no strings attached" portable version. So now it pops up when I need it to, without me needing to tick on/off a service. So I can safely scan a file via context menu, and when it's done scanning, I can close it with no background processing gobbling up all my precious memory :P
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Believe or not, but I use, and have used for a long time, XP with SP1 equipped with only a firewall, which isn't up-to-date either (Outpost 3.5). I also have a lot of services disabled that are automatically started by default (14 processes after startup). I rarely install anything I don't know is 100% legit. If I forget the firewall off for a longer period of time, weird stuff pop up, other than that, never. Formatting and reinstalling everything is not much of an issue for me.
The reason I don't upgrade to SP2/SP3 is that it ruins the performance. I know people say there's no difference, but from my experience, there is. And that's enough for me to not upgrade. Antivirus is pretty much pointless, it never actually does anything except eats resources. I run an online virus scanner every now and then and they don't find squat.
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Use a NAT router.
Do proper backups.
Scan manually for malware every now and again.
Install a free antivirus on machines you don't use for gaming.
That's where I am at the moment, I got Kapersky free from my bank and run it on the PC I use for web surfing.
Take whatever risks you are willing to accept with your own data, but you should at least make sure you don't let someone turn your computer into a zombie sending spam emails round the world.
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Understandable. I ran a scan with Avast just to see how the software operated before I formatted. It's clean! This is after over a year of "unprotected" surfing.
Now that were talking about setups, I figure I would share mine. My only concern when I started this thread, was "Is there an AV I could use so that I didn't have to reinstall my OS immediately when getting hit with a virus." If I did get a virus, it would have to penetrate my headerless Truecrypt volume before it got to anything valuable. Everything that I need to "back up" are on Truecrypt volumes that are dismounted every time I go into Standby. Not that I'm terribly concerned about a law authority knocking on my door and confiscating my computers or anything...but having most stuff OTFE'd helps for situations like this. So all my software backups, movie backups, music, photos, freelance projects and a few registry tweaks, firefox profiles, fonts, etc are all on an encrypted external hdd, which is just about everything on my machine that I store (although if I were to lose about 80% of that due to a failed platter or something, I've got backups burned to DVD that I did about a month ago). Assuming I would have been struck with a virus the second I made this thread, I would have lost a few bookmarks, my recent Firefox history (oh no :p) and anything that I was downloading at that very moment (which is probably nothing). Otherwise it's a quick 10 minute format before my system is clean and ready to use again (it helps to have a couple bat scripts that automate a few things for you like apply registry tweaks for icons, services, and move some fonts around, install a couple apps, etc). It allows me to format once every 3-4 months, if the situation arises.
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Just want to mention that at the moment malware code is being executed (i.e. the system gets infected) you can not trust the system anymore. Once a virus or the like is active it has complete control over the system and can effectively hide itself from scanners, deactivate them, make them display false results et cetera. So installing anti-virus on a suspect system is pointless, you'd have to scan the disk from another known clean system.
That's also why doing on-demand scans from time to time is not enough and even superfluous. The point of anti-virus software is to prevent the first time execution of malware, so a real-time scanner *has* to be running constantly.
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Since I got my first Windows 95-based PC in 1997, I ran anti-virus software - ThunderBYTE Anti-Virus (TBAV). It worked well and was unintrusive, and never noticeably slowed my PC.
My next PC, in 2000, ran Windows 98SE and came bundled with McAfee VirusScan 4.0. To begin with, this also worked great, the DAT updates never caused problems. There was a bit of slowdown, but nothing too bad. Then came the engine update and I came close to throwing that PC down the stairs. McAfee turned a brand new Pentium III PC into something that performed worse than the P133 it replaced. The whole system would freeze for several seconds when doing certain tasks (open a folder with a zip file - bang, freeze). It never locked up and had to be reset, it was just continual pauses.
I was offered a free update to McAfee VirusScan 5.0, and I downloaded it. Since this used the same engine as the updated v4.0, it performed just as bad, but also suffered from several new bugs and caused various blue screens of death.
Not long after that I updated to Windows XP. VirusScan 5.0 on XP was equally as appalling. It no longer caused the cursor freezes, but the system was still unresponsive and generally unstable. Insert an Iomega Zip disc into the drive - BSOD. I gave up after several weeks of battling with that god-awful software.
I went with Norton AV2002, and it made a refreshing change from McAfee (or McCrappy as we called it). But after 2002, Norton began to go downhill and became a resource-hog like McAfee. That's a lie, it was like McAfee back in 2001 - from v7.0 onwards McAfee became such bloated crapware that I think anybody would struggle to match them in its crappyness (which was a shame because VirusScan Enterprise 8.0 was a reasonable product). Nobody wants their PC to be hijacked, but then nobody wants their PC to perform like crap and be crash-happy either.
Since 2004 I've run without anti-virus software, and touch-wood I've not had a single virus infection. But as careful as you are, you never know if somebody is going to come and "check their PowerPoint presentation" on your PC and plug in their virus-infected USB memory stick. So I've been trying various anti-virus packages (freeware and various trials) and so far I'm really liking the Norton 2009 range. I've got the trial of Norton Internet Security 2009 installed, and it's fantastic. I can't notice any system slowdown that can be attributed to Norton, no annoying nag screens, no weird firewall glitches. It just works. I'll keep it installed until the trial runs out, but I think I'll probably end up buying this one. None of the free antivirus packages gave such a good impression, and Norton isn't expensive if you're installing on 3 family PCs.
So for now, this is a thumbs up for NAV2009/NIS2009.
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I used to be a big AVG fan, but after trying NOD32, Avast, Kaspersky for the last couple of years.. I have begun using Avira Antivir for my personal, and customer's systems. It tests at the top of the class, it is free, and the footprint is the most minimal I have seen for it's level of protection.
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I'm gonna second Avira. I slipstreamed it into my install DVD so I don't have to worry about the problems lal was talking about. At this moment Avira is using just under 8MB of RAM. Not bad.
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http://www.virustotal.com/
dont need to install anything and it scans w/ every virus scanner o_O...
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Nice! I've been using something similar but it only did 15mb files
VCheez, I'll give Avira a go, I've never heard of it before, sounds pretty great thanks
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Been using Avira for a bit. The free version has that annoying popup screen when you update, but it's easy to disable it.
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Surprised nobody has mentioned ClamWin (http://www.clamwin.com/).
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I recently formatted my mothers machine thanks to Clamwin. It does a horrible job at sniffing out false positives and telling me what is actually a virus. Scanned a zip with Clamwin that said it was infected. Submitted it to VirusTotal, and it popped up clean. Scanned another zip with Clamwin, showed clean. Installed, and I could hear the hard-drive being written to almost immediately. Opened the task manager, and saw all the awful disguises of trojans and malware (winsvc.exe, all that good stuff). Thankfully she only plays Solitaire on it, so within an hour I had her back up and running.
Sorry to slam foss like that...but it didn't do it's job :(
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If she's only playing Solitaire, why not put on Ubuntu?
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I use this awesome anti-virus software. Have never had a single problem in 8 years of downloading & running all sorts of shady crap. It's called Mac OS X. Works great. ;)
[ only teasing, flamewar not intended :) ]
In all honesty, I run the latest Leopard releases, Ubuntu (Karmic Alpha) & Windows 7 (Prereleases), and haven't had problems on any of them, mainly due to common sense practices.
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Oh trust me, if Final Cut Pro wasn't required as the only technology I'm allowed to use from work/home I would have moved on long ago
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I use Common Sense Antivirus (CSAV), where I simply don't go to find free credit reports, don't claim prizes for being the 10000th visitor, and don't find that trick for white teeth. CSAV works great and I have never gotten a virus in the many years I have been using it.
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Problem here is the rarity of common sense amongst the ignorant masses... They find it a bit too complex to use >.>
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Problem here is the rarity of common sense amongst the ignorant masses...
That is the enemy of security, there are too many persons in charge that tell the coders that something needs to be turned on out of the box, because the user does not need to spend time looking or learning how to turn that something on.
As for running AV all of the time there is no need, then I only run win 2000 for my M$ installs, and have a 6'ish year old install on a box that runs 24/7 and gets a re-boot every month ..if it needs it or not.
It is only running an AMD 2600 XP (2GHz) chip but the box boots at ~200 MB, it does take almost 60 seconds to start, but page files and registry are re-built and de-fragged every boot. Also it has a lot running in the background as its got my TV cards and does quite a lot of media serving as well as being my local NNTP server. As said by others if you dont need a service turn it off. I have a .bat file that turns off all unneeded services on a LAN connected NT 5x box ...I will find if people want the use of.
Web sites cant use any Active X nasties because they are blocked at the modem and again at the main router that is an old 466 MHz box that is a basic hardware firewall/router/print/e-mail server.
For security sake a software firewall on an interweb connected box is about the most important thing and should be first on any list. It matters not if you get infected with something, if it cant phone home and get or give info. I also dont update anything unless there is a good reason M$ updates included I dont see the point of new software if it cant do anything more than the old stuff.
If you do get hit by a real virus the best thing to do is format and start again. I am another that has used Acronis True Image for ages and have a stack of backups on DVD+RW. I also always multi boot every box so you can work on the OS from the other side just in case you have to get something back, and that is how I run any AV and malware scans. I also keep the registry backed up and go thru it by hand every few weeks to clear it out, and make copies of all the Master Boot records ...again just in case.
But then I grew up with a dad that ran some of the first big computers in this country with the IBM 1401 in 1960 then 360/30's and 360/60's in '64 and never really stopped after that.
As a kid I learnt to write on punch cards and had "backup or die" drummed into me from an early age :)
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For security sake a software firewall on an interweb connected box is about the most important thing and should be first on any list. It matters not if you get infected with something, if it cant phone home and get or give info. I also dont update anything unless there is a good reason M$ updates included I dont see the point of new software if it cant do anything more than the old stuff.
Jesus, you don't know what you're talking about...
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I agree with lal here, there are plenty of viruses that can do a ****load of damage without being able to phone home.
I never get people who use Windows 2000, with all the effort you put it to keeping it up and running, you'd be better off learning how to use Linux. Besides, MS isn't going to support it for ever, what do you do then?
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Since I've made this thread I've formatted twice, for fun (I've got a twisted idea of fun). I've been using VirusTotal for all my scans, but when something big comes across, I'm still undecided. I found a way to turn off AVG for good. And I use a bat script to turn the service back on, and then "run" AVG when I need to scan something big. Hit another shortcut, it brute forces AVG off, and disables the service. It's working how I need it to, but I need the reliability that if I scan something, it's not covered in viruses.
But I do this maybe...once every month, when I'm running something I don't currently own (and has already been scanned). The AV lays dormant on my machine, when I need it, it comes to life. When I don't need it, it goes back to sleep. Firefox, NoScript and Adblock keep me protected from all the "baddies" on the internet. Common sense is playing the role of the anti-virus here.
If you're like me, that likes to demo a lot of software, you can't exactly open an exe and look through it trying to find malicious bits of code. This is what the AV is for. I don't need it for everyday use (a lot of contributors to this thread that only seemed to have read the last five posts...which is why I'm reiterating this), I just use it for big files.
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If you're like me, that likes to demo a lot of software, you can't exactly open an exe and look through it trying to find malicious bits of code. This is what the AV is for.
No, that's what Virtual Box or VMware Server is for.
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I am another that has used Acronis True Image for ages and have a stack of backups on DVD+RW.
I used to do regular Ghost images to CD/DVD until Disk sizes just got too big. I tried Acronis True Image last night and was pleased to find that:
- You can boot straight from the CD and have USB support;
- Then do a full image of the internal drives, and save it onto an external USB drive.
As far as I'm concerned, this is the only way to do a proper full backup of a system - take a full image while the system is inactive, and save it straight to an external media.
And given how cheap 1TB external drives are now...
Acronis did the job well. I'd read tales of it failing to restore, and thought I'd encountered the problem, but it turns out it was analyzing the backup data in the background (no "Please wait" message unfortunately!) After waiting patiently for a minute, it went ahead as intended. It allowed me to move and expand partitions from a 80GB failing drive to a replacement 500GB drive with no fuss. *
I bet the latest version of Ghost can do the same, but I stopped buying that ages ago when they kept bringing out updates that did less than the older versions.
(*) Done via an image on an external USB drive.
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No, that's what Virtual Box or VMware Server is for.
Good call. I mostly just use vm's for multiple versions of IE ;p
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Obviously it's more work, but I don't really trust anti-viruses to pick up everything, and once you get a virus on a Windows installation, you really need to reformat to guarantee that your PC is safe from it.
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I agree about having to reformat. There's just no clean way to get everything. But the time you've dug out all the roots a virus has sunk into the dirt (your os), many things come up broken, or dll's come up corrupted and irreparable.
I have yet to give sandboxie a look, but I was under the impression it did a bit of what a vm would do (correct me if I'm wrong though)
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Jesus, you don't know what you're talking about...
Well I will let you believe that as I have no need to prove anything, but this thing I also said might go some way ..."If you do get hit by a real virus the best thing to do is format and start again". The reason why a software firewall keeps you safe (i.e. the reason I was trying to put across) is that its trivial to format and re-install, its what, like a 10 minute job, the big deal is when your info is got by a third party, or your box gets 0wned and made to do things you would not want. All your anti Virus can stop that cant they ? ...but then I have not a clue what I am talking about do I.
With a 'hard' Win2k box well locked down there is not much that can get into it that is why I do have 6+ year old installs that can run for 2/300 plus days without a problem, but then there has to be a reason why M$ has promised 'us' (see link below) support thru 2016 before they review and renew the lifeline again ...but then I dont have a clue what I am talking about.
As for running win2000 only, I dont seem to remember saying that ? It was more like..."then I only run win 2000 for my M$ installs". I have too much stuff I have to work with that is still run in an M$ enviro, and as I have been a M$ Select plus customer (https://partner.microsoft.com/UK/licensing/licensingprograms/ltvolumelicensing/vlselectplus)for almost too long to remember I see no reason to stop.
Then again only running 2k could be called a lie, as I did build a dual quad core box to show someone just how bad XP (NT5.1) is with multi chip/cores and has to be patched to thread anything but the first core it can see, and its still round here somewhere. Where as 2k can use 32 chips/cores right out of the box, and with a few reg hacks is happy with 64 and 64 GB.
As for Linux I dont have a box that has 'not' got a slackware boot or solaris on my ultrasparc T1's, but then I also remember when Linus first offered us the use of his new minix like kernel code and asked if we could help out with some source to try to get it up to something more like a real OS quite some years back in c.o.m ...but then its not like I have a clue what I am talking about.
Thinking about it only yesterday I followed a link from here to overclockers forum to a thread about mech kbrds and wondered why it was full of kids telling other kids that they did not have clue about anything and 'they' were the real deal.
Its a shame that in 26~27 years of being 'on-line' talking to others computer users things have really seemed to have gone down hill ...but then.....
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Yep - ESET/NOD32 all the way. Less intrusive of all, very small footprint, excellent detection rate. (Con: Below average at cleaning)
As a side note BufferZone from Trustware is pretty good at sandboxing.
It's basically the poor man's virtualization. I've played with a lot of azardous material in the "Virtual Zone" and it was able to contain most of the mess.
Click here to see how BufferZone works (http://db.trustware.com/How-BufferZone-Pro-works/)
But not exactly non-intrusive.
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Well, I'm kind of big on not letting sh!t running all the time. In fact, I even turn off my printer spooler (the service that collects available printers) if I'm not using it. While it's a small amount of memory, I just don't like it being there...
Antiviruses have caused me grief in the passed, and while it shows that it takes a small footprint, it still is scanning everything being moved in and out of the machine, and that's what bothers me the most. Last I need is something to be bottlenecking because the AV software can't keep up.
But in all, if I can circumvent having an application running all the time, by just being a better user, then so be it.
I'm little late to this thread. I agree with your points, well said.
I've been online since there was an "online" and I'll bet I log as many hours with my machines on and online as anybody. In all that time ( up until 5 years ago I ditched Windows completely except for one copy I run in a VM for work) I never ran any AV on Windows.
I turn off 50-60% of Windows services and I use a router or a hardware firewall AND a good software firewall. I turn off auto update on the GUI *and* in the services list, just because I don't trust anybody in that part of Washington state.
In Winworld, most of the threat is the OS, it's not from outside. If you set up a nice software firewall like ZoneAlarm or Kerio (find an older version, the newer ones suck) and set the default to not let anything go outside your box you will be amazed how much crap including stuff like Word is trying to phone home. I have never had any virus on any of my Windows machines so I have to say either our view is correct and practical, or today
today
today
I am the luckiest est est est
man
on the face of the earth erth erth erth....
The best AV is limiting use of services you don't need, paying attention, and just not doing stupid things.
For the people who don't agree with our philsophy, then ask yourself why you are running an OS that spawned a multi BILLION dollar AV industry.
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I use Common Sense Antivirus (CSAV), where I simply don't go to find free credit reports, don't claim prizes for being the 10000th visitor, and don't find that trick for white teeth. CSAV works great and I have never gotten a virus in the many years I have been using it.
LOL, classic post. Somebody sticky this!
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As for Linux I dont have a box that has 'not' got a slackware boot or solaris on my ultrasparc T1's, but then I also remember when Linus first offered us the use of his new minix like kernel code and asked if we could help out with some source to try to get it up to something more like a real OS quite some years back in c.o.m ...but then its not like I have a clue what I am talking about.
Thinking about it only yesterday I followed a link from here to overclockers forum to a thread about mech kbrds and wondered why it was full of kids telling other kids that they did not have clue about anything and 'they' were the real deal.
Its a shame that in 26~27 years of being 'on-line' talking to others computer users things have really seemed to have gone down hill ...but then.....
Welcome to the forums Lenny, from another greybeard.
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but then there has to be a reason why M$ has promised 'us' (see link below) support thru 2016 before they review and renew the lifeline again ...but then I dont have a clue what I am talking about.
Oh, I was under the impression that they were killing it next year. My bad!
Where as 2k can use 32 chips/cores right out of the box, and with a few reg hacks is happy with 64 and 64 GB.
I had heard about the large RAM support that they mysteriously killed in the desktop versions of XP and later, but not the multicore support. Again, news to me.
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[...I'm pissed...]
Well, I'm feeling a bit sorry that you're pissed, Lenny. So I will try to give you a short explanation why I think that you don't know what you were talking about. You said:
For security sake a software firewall on an interweb connected box is about the most important thing and should be first on any list.
Which is BS because anyone claiming to have a clue about security should know that PFs are completely and utterly useless. Reason: malware can just reconfigure or disable it without you noticing. As I said earlier, once malware gets to run it has complete control over the system. Anti-virus is there to prevent first time execution.
Even when we hypothesize you're being *really* security sensitive and log in as a non-admin user only, so the malware runs with just user privileges, AND we assume the PF is well behaved and cannot be modified from the user context, you will still have at least one application whitelisted that is allowed to communicate with the network (otherwise you could just pull the network plug and don't need a PF). The malware can piggyback on this app and communicate with the world just fine. You loose.
If you have a local privilege escalation hole it's much easier for the malware obviously since it can just gain admin rights and do what it wants to, which in your case is very likely because:
I also dont update anything unless there is a good reason M$ updates included
Which is a violation of the *true* first security principle. If you don't understand why immediate patching of widely known security flaws is important, I just can't help you, sorry.
One word to everyone thinking a PF can stop your applications "phoning home": apart from the fact that it does not (see above), I just don't get why you're running proprietary software in the first place if you don't trust it? And then you install another proprietary program to try to shut it up? That's insane. There is OSS if you want something you can trust.
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PFs are completely and utterly useless.
By PF do you mean personal firewall - i.e. software application running on the computer you are using?
Saying they are utterly useless is too strong. They can do a lot of good. Your point that they are not bulletproof is valid though. You need a separate, well configured 'black box' firewall sitting between you and the Internet to reach that level of confidence.
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By PF do you mean personal firewall - i.e. software application running on the computer you are using?
Saying they are utterly useless is too strong. They can do a lot of good. Your point that they are not bulletproof is valid though. You need a separate, well configured 'black box' firewall sitting between you and the Internet to reach that level of confidence.
Yes, i meant "personal firewall", sorry. And if you mean the warm feeling of power and control that you get when the PF tells you that it successfully defended another break-in attempt from a dangerous hax0r (in reality a script kiddie ping-scanning the whole internet or something), then yes, a PF can do something good ;)
Full ACK to your last sentence.
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Lal, do you use a firewall with your Linux boxes? If so, which one?
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Lal, do you use a firewall with your Linux boxes? If so, which one?
Only on the one exposed host that serves http, ssh etc. to the internet. It's basically a script that sets up the iptables filter rules.
If I would do it "professionally" correct that box would only run services accessible from the internet and hence would need no filter rules whatsoever. But I'm cheap and have it running LAN-only services too and while they're bound to the LAN interface only I play it safe and additionally block them with iptables.
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Oh, and the LAN is "protected" by your typical broadband router that does the network address translation so the hosts behind it cannot be "seen" from the internet (except that one exposed host of course).
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I stopped putting ZoneAlarm on my Windows PCs when I got my first wireless router - before the router I'd get thousands of suspicious traffic blocked over some period of time (I used to check every once in a while, cant remember how regularly though) but when I got the router, it dropped to 2-3 over the space of a week or two, with no changes in my internet usage. Figured it wasn't really worth my time maintaining the router and unblocking apps when it wasn't doing much. Now that I use Linux on an almost primary basis, it seems even less relevant.
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Yeah ZA can be weird at times. I switched over to Kerio years ago for the same reason, but some people like the ZA interface more. Plus ZA has that cool geolocator addon which is sweet.
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Has anybody tried Microsoft Security Essentials? I've installed it on several PCs and the results are very good. Even the slowest of the lot, an Athlon XP 2100+ with 1GB RAM and Windows XP SP3 is still responsive. The biggest benefits of it (other than being lightweight) are that it's very simple and unobtrusive, and that integrates well into Windows and Windows Update. It feels like it's part of Windows (and probably would be, if not for anti-competitive issues).
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Is that a firewall or AV?
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Has anybody tried Microsoft Security Essentials? I've installed it on several PCs and the results are very good. Even the slowest of the lot, an Athlon XP 2100+ with 1GB RAM and Windows XP SP3 is still responsive. The biggest benefits of it (other than being lightweight) are that it's very simple and unobtrusive, and that integrates well into Windows and Windows Update. It feels like it's part of Windows (and probably would be, if not for anti-competitive issues).
I use it on both my Windows 7 installs, and I love it. No performance impact to speak of and very unobtrusive.
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I don't have any additional firewall software over the standard Windows Firewall and the hardware firewall in my router. Every time I've tried 3rd party firewalls they've been problematic, although admittedly a lot of those bad experiences were on Windows 98SE and Windows Me.
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Is that a firewall or AV?
AV
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The first thing that goes on a clean bloze install (if that isn't a oxymoron) is Kerio. The bloze firewall does fine as a mini fw but the threats in winbloze-land are from the OS and the apps. A good software firewall set to deny everything shows you just how much winbloze spills its guts to the world outside.
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Are you bashing Windows?
To tell you the truth, I use Windows 2000 every day. It's got no anti-virus software. No firewall. No Windows Defender. And no viruses!
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common sense 2010 deluxe combined with regular updates,
cant imagine when it has served me wrong.
ive played with kaspersky, seems nice, but still.
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MS Security Essentials. Currently sitting at 243k memory usage. Best AV I've used yet, even better than my beloved nod32.
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The only thing that makes me sceptical of MS Security Essentials is that that's where the front line fighting will be most intense! Every virus maker worth his weight in piss will be trying his best to get past it, while other programs like Avast etc won't attract the same kind of attention. That's my guess.
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MS Security Essentials. Currently sitting at 243k memory usage. Best AV I've used yet, even better than my beloved nod32.
Exactly. SAV Corporate used anywhere from 60MB to 125MB. MSSECES.exe is using 1.7MB. Nice.
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MS Security Essentials. Currently sitting at 243k memory usage. Best AV I've used yet, even better than my beloved nod32.
Bah! Why are there always catches? (Going by the installation video on their website.)
Runs a Genuine Validation during installation. I'm 100% legit, but there's always a chance it will mess up my system. Besides, it's like having a police car follow you while you're driving, you feel guilty even if you've done nothing wrong.
There's something about a privacy statement. Why? What personal info can they justify taking?
You are advised to uninstall all other anti-virus and anti-spyware software.
Trust MS to sour its own milk.
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You are advised to uninstall all other anti-virus and anti-spyware software.
That's good advice. Using two antiviruses is like wearing two condoms - it's not as good an idea as you might think.
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That's good advice. Using two antiviruses is like wearing two condoms - it's not as good an idea as you might think.
Yes, but all anti-spyware too? And full uninstall, not just deactivate? Totally unnecessary for on-demand scanners.
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http://lifehacker.com/5399564/five-best-antivirus-applications
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http://lifehacker.com/5399564/five-best-antivirus-applications
I'm sure Avast works well, but wow that UI, it's like going back to 1999.
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Yes, but all anti-spyware too? And full uninstall, not just deactivate? Totally unnecessary for on-demand scanners.
MSE also automatically detects stuff... And I'm pretty sure it's meant to catch out spyware and the like as well, although I can't entirely confirm that.
Does it actually refuse to be installed unless you get rid of the other stuff?
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MSE also automatically detects stuff... And I'm pretty sure it's meant to catch out spyware and the like as well, although I can't entirely confirm that.
Does it actually refuse to be installed unless you get rid of the other stuff?
[strike]I doubt it refuses, but I haven't tried.[/strike] I'm keeping Kapersky on my XP machine for now, it seems fine, and I just installed MSE on my Vista box (previously had nothing of that nature on it, I'm trying to keep it as clean as possible for gaming.)
EDIT> Correction - I had Ad-Aware loaded on my Vista PC before installing MSE. It didn't cause any problems.
The thing about spyware scanners is most people say to use several. None of them detect everything, and they don't conflict with each other. So MS asking you to uninstall them seems odd - or at least unnecessarily cautious.
MSE did install easily and the first scan was extremely quick. I laughed when it said it could take "several minutes", but it really was that quick. (But as I said, that machine doesn't have any junk installed.)
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I used to swear by Symantec Antivirus Corporate.
But, it's now an EOL'ed (end of life) product, replaced by Symantec Endpoint Security which seems like the slow bloatware you usually get from Norton. It still updates, however, but I'm not sure whether it's compatible with Windows 7.
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I prefer Kasperasky and Avast! AVG comes in third because it's very free and not bad at all.
Good, thorough programs- few false positives and very lightweight.
Right now I'm using McAfee (I know I know) because it comes free with my ISP. Not bad at all.
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Right now I'm using McAfee (I know I know) because it comes free with my ISP. Not bad at all.
Do you install every piece of free software you get onto your PC? You might end up in a bad way if you stick with that...
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Do you install every piece of free software you get onto your PC? You might end up in a bad way if you stick with that...
It uses very little resources compared to older Mcafee versions
Seriously. i wouldn't use it if there were a better free option.
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It uses very little resources compared to older Mcafee versions
Seriously. i wouldn't use it if there were a better free option.
MS Security Essentials. Get it today.
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I use the free version of Avast and it's miles better than AVG, Kaspersky, Norton, Avira and Bitdefender because it doesn't give many false positives and updates 2-3 times a day sometimes.The GUI and user interface of Avast is crap but I can live with that shortcoming for the full spectrum safety aspect.The pro version of Avast is a little better in that regard.All the big four AV software let nasties in and missed most of the stuff that Avast caught.
I don't use AD-Aware, spybot or spyware blocker anymore because they are too big and intrusive and windows defender is big and ineffective.I use malwarebytes free and SpywareBlaster and the best site for anti-virus and anti-malware/spyware free and paid programs and great advice is run by a guy called Eric Howes formerly at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.It is a very comprehensive site that I have been using for ten years.
http://www.spywarewarrior.com/uiuc/main.htm
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Hmmm. I ran a full scan while away from my PC, and MS Security Essentials found a ton of viruses in my email attachment folder (not a problem, as I get a lot of spam and assume all attachments are viruses.)
BUT ... MSE didn't bother telling me about them! I had to go into History to find out!
Excuse me, Microsoft, but don't you think users need to be alerted that they had an infection????
What's the point of cleaning the system if you allow the user to remain ignorant and keep doing the things that cause infection?
Bloody MS have to dumb down everything.
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installed MS security essentials (downloading updates now) to see/prove how well common sense 2010 has been working lately
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Hmmm. I ran a full scan while away from my PC, and MS Security Essentials found a ton of viruses in my email attachment folder (not a problem, as I get a lot of spam and assume all attachments are viruses.)
BUT ... MSE didn't bother telling me about them! I had to go into History to find out!
Excuse me, Microsoft, but don't you think users need to be alerted that they had an infection????
What's the point of cleaning the system if you allow the user to remain ignorant and keep doing the things that cause infection?
Bloody MS have to dumb down everything.
That's why I don't use MS Security Essentials or Windows defender or whatever crap it was called when it first came out.
I've tried them all from freeware to state of the art corporate security software at thousands of pounds and now I know what works and what doesn't through a lot of trial and error over ten years.
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Hmmm. I ran a full scan while away from my PC, and MS Security Essentials found a ton of viruses in my email attachment folder (not a problem, as I get a lot of spam and assume all attachments are viruses.)
BUT ... MSE didn't bother telling me about them! I had to go into History to find out!
Excuse me, Microsoft, but don't you think users need to be alerted that they had an infection????
What's the point of cleaning the system if you allow the user to remain ignorant and keep doing the things that cause infection?
Bloody MS have to dumb down everything.
I was using it to clean a friend's PC and it notified me everytime it found something. It also picked up stuff AVG and Avira never found.
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microsoft security essentials found... NOTHING! not some alert about a game crack, etc... NOTHING
common sense 2010 reigns supreme
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Hmmm. I ran a full scan while away from my PC, and MS Security Essentials found a ton of viruses in my email attachment folder (not a problem, as I get a lot of spam and assume all attachments are viruses.)
BUT ... MSE didn't bother telling me about them! I had to go into History to find out!
Excuse me, Microsoft, but don't you think users need to be alerted that they had an infection????
What's the point of cleaning the system if you allow the user to remain ignorant and keep doing the things that cause infection?
Bloody MS have to dumb down everything.
Symantec AV Corporate didn't alert me if an attachment had a virus, either. Like Symantec Corporate, I think you have to actually open/act on the attachment before it will send up an alert.
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I was using it to clean a friend's PC and it notified me everytime it found something.
Did the notification stay visible? As I said, I ran the full scan while I wasn't watching the screen. When I came back to check it had completed there was no summary screen, no indication of any kind.
The PC had gone into S3 standby in the meantime, but that shouldn't be relevant.
I've never in the last 20+ years had a virus or spyware checker fail to give a summary once it had completed.
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Seems to work fine here with the EICAR test file (created with MSE real-time off, then re-enabled it and did a Quick scan).
First of all, a notification window popped up in the bottom-right corner, which I ignored.
Next, a warning message appeared in the MSE window.
Finally, once the scan had finished, the notification window disappeared but the MSE window has turned red (At risk) with a big red "Clean computer" button in it and the system tray icon has also turned red with a cross in it.
Maybe for certain types of virus it cleans/quaranteens automatically but EICAR certainly seems to give the desired behaviour. Red = something needs attending to, Green = all ok.