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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: iggysaps on Fri, 03 July 2009, 05:40:30

Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: iggysaps on Fri, 03 July 2009, 05:40:30: http://www.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/designer-p2.htm

Anyone heard of these? They seem to sell a lot of keyboards but the link I posted above seems to be the most interesting. Furthermore they boast of different key force required similar to the topre.

Some input from our experts would be appreciated. It is a lot cheaper than any of the topres.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: low-fi on Fri, 03 July 2009, 05:57:43: Key Tronics were extremely popular in Finland in the nineties-early 00s. For their price, I consider them to be really good rubber dome 'boards. The Designer model you linked resembles the KT2001 model I've been using, and I think it has a pretty nice feel. It's not really as good as e.g. Model M, but sometimes I prefer Keytronic's light feel to mechanical switches.

They are very good keyboards for gaming, because they have good rollover-ability (not exactly NKRO, but still enough) and a precise feel. They're good for writing, I wouldn't really mind writing a novel on one. The keycaps are somewhat tall, the same as Model M.

I suggest you try it out. They're definitely not as good as expensive mechanical boards, but way above contemporary Logitech and Microsoft crap.

I actually thought about starting a KeyTronic appreciation thread a while ago.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Fri, 03 July 2009, 10:51:32: I actually have one of those around here somewhere :) That is what I used before I rediscovered IBM Model M's and now Topre boards. They are one of the better rubber dome boards out there. And for the price you can find them for they are not a bad deal. But the real question is would I buy or recommend one to some one? Depends on who or what type of person I'm doing the recommending to 1) Cheap ass General user sure no problem they are better than most of the other crap out there but if they have a little more Money to spend then I would recommend one of the cheaper mechanical boards. 2) Keyboard geek no way they are not good enough for a keyboard geek mechanical and Topre boards are much better. 3) I would not buy one for myself but then again I'm a keyboard geek. But another question would be would I use one in a pinch sure but not for long.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 03 July 2009, 11:00:57: The only time I saw a Keytronic keyboard was when I was using an old computer. That keyboard weighed nearly as much as my Model M and was even more yellow than French's mustard. It also had a spot under the function keys where is showed commands like Copying and Pasting. From what I remember from them, I would say it dated from the early 1990's when Windows 3.1 came out.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: low-fi on Fri, 03 July 2009, 12:36:12: Quote from: ripster;100971

Sorry for posting such a big pic but I think this is a good find and want to emphasize the key weighting is similar to Topres. I don't have one but I remember EJ-XX having a Keytronic, I think a different model.

Especially if you have RSI.

I really haven't noticed a big difference between the 'weighted' keys. I'd say it's more of a gimmick than a functional feature.

Edit: Oh, and I'm talking about the Key Tronc 'board here.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: low-fi on Fri, 03 July 2009, 13:05:54: Hm, well, the overall feel is a bit light, yes. Actually the keyboard has quite a strange feel to it that's hard to explain. Maybe the keys _are_ weighted, but I personally just don't feel it that way. The keys are just weird, somehow. But they are nice to type on, which is the important thing.

Now that I've used a G80-3000 for a few hours, the Key Tronic isn't that much lighter than this Cherry board -- so if the Blues are the "heaviest" Cherry switches around, the Key Tronic board in question cannot be considered a light keyboard. I guess anything feels light when compared to a Model M.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: low-fi on Fri, 03 July 2009, 13:37:52: Quote from: ripster;100987
...but you'd have to go collect some US nickels...

They could sell those at computer stores. :D
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 03 July 2009, 15:02:01: Quote from: low-fi;100977
so if the Blues are the "heaviest" Cherry switches around,

They aren't - the blacks, clears, greys and greens are heavier (the latter two being special heavy switches for spacebars)
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: low-fi on Fri, 03 July 2009, 15:24:56: I'm not into breaking my new G80-3000 into pieces right now, so could someone provide me with information on the switches used on the board's enter, backspace and shift? They seem a lot more stiff than rest of the keys. Greens, greys, or what?
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 03 July 2009, 17:03:46: My KeyTronic is on a pile with the other rubber domes. I think it has issues in the looks department. Have to try it again though.

Quote from: low-fi;101009
I'm not into breaking my new G80-3000 into pieces right now, so could someone provide me with information on the switches used on the board's enter, backspace and shift? They seem a lot more stiff than rest of the keys. Greens, greys, or what?

Same switches as the others. Only space has a different switch.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: 1cewolf on Fri, 03 July 2009, 19:17:00: I'm pretty sure that Key Tronic was the OEM that made the original Microsoft Natural keyboard I've been using. Its feel is second to none compared to the other rubber dome keyboards I've tried.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: keyb_gr on Sat, 04 July 2009, 11:16:06: Quote from: 1cewolf;101033
I'm pretty sure that Key Tronic was the OEM that made the original Microsoft Natural keyboard I've been using.
If grey cell memory doesn't fail me too badly, the FCC ID on these reveals the same. Check the FCC ID reference in the wiki.

Oh, and the FreeKEYB guys wrote the same in 1997.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 05 July 2009, 02:20:54: I've placed the Keytronic at the top of my rubber dome list since 1990 when I typed on my first one. The programmers each had one on his 33 MHz 386. We other folk had to fend for ourselves or find out which programmer wanted to trade...

Today I have two Keytronic boards with the trackball below spacebar. It's my favorite for quick motherboard testing since it has mouse and keyboard in one enclosure (not to mention a very nice feel to the keystrokes).
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Sun, 05 July 2009, 20:56:14: Quote from: ripster;101271
Rdjack, I didn't see any posting comparing the Keytronic to the Realforce. Any similarity in feel?? I know you like the 87U better but still there are some RSI users that would benefit from a lighter than average keyboard.

Hmm I guess I will need to go dig through my pile and see if I can find that board. It has been quite some time since I have typed on it but I'll see if I can find it and write up my impressions.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: huha on Sun, 05 July 2009, 21:33:24: Quote from: low-fi;101009
I'm not into breaking my new G80-3000 into pieces right now, so could someone provide me with information on the switches used on the board's enter, backspace and shift? They seem a lot more stiff than rest of the keys. Greens, greys, or what?

I don't know if the US shift has stabilizers, but the keys with stabilizers feel different from those without stabilizers. I swapped springs on my G80-3000 to create green switches, but I didn't like the feel on keys with stabilizers, so they have been swapped back to blue switches again.

-huha
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 06 July 2009, 11:14:43: I've noticed a similar difference with key stablizers especially on the spacebars of older keyboards (a little on the Model M, more noticeable on the Model F).
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: megarat on Mon, 06 July 2009, 13:52:19: Quote from: 1cewolf;101033
I'm pretty sure that Key Tronic was the OEM that made the original Microsoft Natural keyboard I've been using. Its feel is second to none compared to the other rubber dome keyboards I've tried.

I believe this is correct, and that Keytronic is a geographic neighbor of Microsoft (being based in Spokane, WA) might be additional evidence of this.

Keytronic was a huge manufacturer of keyboards during the late 80s and early 90s, BTW. Or ... maybe they only seemed huge to me as I grew up in the vicinity, so they were getting the benefit of additional local support.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: IBI on Mon, 06 July 2009, 17:34:00: Quote from: ripster;101432
One of these second tier Keyboard Manufacturers is NOT going to make it through the recession - Unicomp, Keytronic, DSI, and/or TG3 (Deck). If your favorite keyboard is on this list I'd suggest buying a spare. Make sure you use a credit card, no Paypal.

It seems like Strong Man may already have gone bust.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 06 July 2009, 23:52:20: IMO, Key Tronic could well be the surprise loser.

What do they have right now, both in terms of a market and of product differentiation.

TS3-Deck has the modder freak. Theirs is probably the best of the illuminated keyboards, plus there's the embedded market they service.

Unicomp has the Model M Nostalgia market, and their existing market featuring "we need a 122 board for our app" customers.

DSI, looking at their site, sells a lot of rubbish-- those roll-up keyboards, multimedia keyboards-- which provide plenty of margin to keep their key products running.

But Key Tronic's products are inherently generic. And their product line is actually narrower than Unicomp's (One basic design, in two layouts, with a trackball or two-port hub options). Who will come to mourn them?
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Mon, 06 July 2009, 23:56:54: Found my Key Tronic keyboard it is a KT800PS2US-C which is an older version of the KT800P1. I will need to spend a little time on it but on first pass the keys feel heaver than a Topre but they also have more tactile feed back I would almost say it feels more like a Model M than a Topre. But on the really bad side it just feels really cheap. By that I mean the thing is light as a feather and the whole keyboard flexes. Cheap thin plastic case. Even though it has good tactile feed back that feed back just feels fake and over done to compensate for the over all cheap feel to the rest of the board.

Also I don't think the model I have has weighted keys. Unlike my Topre board I can't tell any differance between any of the keys they all feel the same. On the Topre you can feel the differance even though it is sutle you can still feel it.

I think I will take this thing apart and see what is inside when I get a chance.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Tue, 07 July 2009, 08:57:38: By cheap do you mean it feels cheap when you are typing on it, or cheap when you lift it?
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Tue, 07 July 2009, 10:08:16: Quote from: willhs;101516
By cheap do you mean it feels cheap when you are typing on it, or cheap when you lift it?

Actually a little of both. I think if they made the case more solid it would not be a bad board. But as it is it the keys just feel over done which adds up to the over all cheap feel of the board. But then again for someone that has not typed on or gotten used to a quality board would probably think it is far better than what they have and it is much better than just about any of the rubber dome boards I've typed on. But from my reference point comparing it against a Topre or even a Filco it just feels like a cheap board but a good cheap board, it does not have the mushy feeling most rubber domes have.

I really need to plug it in and type on it more to get a better feeling for it.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Tue, 07 July 2009, 21:04:53: I'm pretty intrigued by this board, so I put in an order (only $35) for the Designer and it's already shipped! Should get it in a few days and post some thoughts. And you're right, the model you are using doesn't have the variable force membrane, or at least not the same one as the Designer. I've never used the Topre, so I won't have a frame of reference, though.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Wed, 08 July 2009, 09:46:26: Quote from: willhs;101664
I'm pretty intrigued by this board, so I put in an order (only $35) for the Designer and it's already shipped! Should get it in a few days and post some thoughts. And you're right, the model you are using doesn't have the variable force membrane, or at least not the same one as the Designer. I've never used the Topre, so I won't have a frame of reference, though.

The one I have is not a bad board especially for the price you get them for. But like I said once you have typed on a really good board be that a Filco or one of the Topre boards it just feels cheap. But if you haven't typed on one of those you will most likely like it. I used one for many years and it was the only board I would use until I started down the path of mechanical keyboards. Now well I could use one and my fingers would not be to teribly upset with me but my keyboard tastes have now become more refined and I prefer Tenderloin versas Serlion but then again Serlion is better than hamberger.

Tenderrloin = Topre
T-Bone/Porterhouse = Filco
Hamburger = Key Tronic, Scorpious M10 (Mostly becuase it has quality issues)
Spam (The type in a can) = Crappy rubber domes (feels like mush to your fingers)

EDIT: Oh forgot to add do let us know what you think of it when you get it. Especially if you how you feel about the key action Light/Heavy. Also if all you have typed on is crappy rubber domes you should be happy with it if it feels like mine.

EDIT 2: Updated the listing of meat to keyboard. I just love a good Hamburger and no way a Crappy rubber dome is a Hamburger. See down a couple for a good ripster picture of what is meant by Spam ... LOL. And to be honest I like Hamburger better than Serlion unless of course you make Hambuger out of the Serlion then it is good.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 08 July 2009, 09:48:10: I like hamburgers, though.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Wed, 08 July 2009, 10:55:35: Quote from: ripster;101733
Me too - how about Crappy Rubber Dome =

Show Image
(http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/photos/spam_1.jpg)

LOL I like that one... I will edit the previous post for crappy rubber domes
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 08 July 2009, 13:22:07: Quote from: ripster;101747
(should keep a pocketful of nickels with me at all times - :biggrin:)

"Excuse me, sir. What the f*ck are you doing? Security... Security!"
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 08 July 2009, 13:40:24: Quote from: ripster;101763
Yeah, it was weird because my Home Depot has sent everyone through this crash "Customer Service" program. I'm used to being left alone and not having all these smiling employees asking me if I need help.

If I want chipper employees I go to Starbucks.

True to style though I had to ask twice to find some plexiglass since the first guy sent me to the wrong part of the store. THEN the second guy wanted me to identify the first employee that sent me to the wrong place - I refused - my Mama told me not to snitch.

I had a part time job at Home Depot once. They were the absolute worst when it came to Customer Service. They also have some of the crappiest merchandising and cleanliness. Horrible company. I try to shop at Lowes whenever I can.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Wed, 08 July 2009, 14:09:13: Quote from: ripster;101747
I was just at Home Depot and they have a keytronic with a trackball for filling out customer surveys. Felt nothing like a Topre - but definite tactile bump. Lots of contractors with greasy hands probably didn't help it none but at least it seemed to be working fine. Not as light as Topre by any means. (should keep a pocketful of nickels with me at all times - :biggrin:)

Yep sounds similar to mine heaver then a Topre and not as smooth but a definite tactile bump. I actually think the feel is more like the Model M (Heavy very distinct tactile bump) but quite.

I'm hopping I get some time to take mine apart this weekend. I will try put some nickels on it and see how heavy it really is.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: megarat on Wed, 08 July 2009, 17:59:05: Quote from: Hak Foo;101483
IMO, Key Tronic could well be the surprise loser.

But Key Tronic's products are inherently generic. And their product line is actually narrower than Unicomp's (One basic design, in two layouts, with a trackball or two-port hub options). Who will come to mourn them?

But in a bland market, there's a lot of market strength to be had in being generic.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Wed, 08 July 2009, 21:07:51: Quote from: ripster;101812
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3069&stc=1&d=1247094495)

Stopped at a headshop after my son got his haircut (he likes Tie-die t-shirts) and got the elegant version of the RipOmeter. $3.

Same result (Blue Cherry Filco) in a more elegant package. Only other one they had was 100g though so I'll still need to keep a couple of nickels around.

"Sir - the metal detector senses something - empty your pockets sir. What's that. Hands up. SIR, I SAID HANDS UP!!!"

Nice but if you really want to do this right you need something more like this

Class 1 calibration weight set (WTSET21PC1C) consists of 21 pieces ranging from 1mg to 100 grams, ASTM Shape, includes Report of Traceability and Certificate of Calibration. (http://balance.balances.com/scales/953/)
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Wed, 08 July 2009, 23:10:09: Well gents, I got the board already and have done some preliminary typing on it. I will have to spend a large amount of time with it before putting together a worthy review, but my initial impressions are very, very good. I've been typing on the Scorpius M10 for the past few months, and I've used a Model M before.

My first impression, right off the bat, is that it is awesome. It actuates very high for a membrane board, which is surprisingly unlike the cherry blues which in my experience actuate about halfway or more. It definitely has a tactile feel reminiscent of the Model M, but MUCH lighter, closer to the blues in weight. There is definitely a big difference between the weighting of the keys, and I'm really digging it.

Not sure how to put it into words since my palate of keyboards isn't as broad as most forum viewers, but this is just "smoother" than the cherry blues but with more of a tactile feel and less of a "clicky" sound. To my fingers, the cherry blues make a very neat click, but don't really tell your fingers that the key has been actuated, and you just keep on going until you bottom out. This is more of an instant feeling that you pressed the key WITHOUT much of a noise, and it's much easier to not bottom out. AND when you do bottom out, you are hitting a nice soft membrane instead of hard plastic.

That's my initial take. I mostly just wanted to type. I'm sure it's not popular to say that membrane is better than cherry blue. :-) There is really no comparison between this Keytronic and any other membrane board I've ever used.

Is there anyone else on this forum who has this keyboard?
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Wed, 08 July 2009, 23:46:26: Oh, and the cheapest way to buy it is either direct from Buy.com for $35 shipped

http://www.buy.com/prod/keytronic-designer-p2-keyboard-ps-2-104-keys-black-keytronic-designer/q/loc/101/203922385.html

Or, I bought it from them via their ebay store to make use of the Microsoft bing.com cashback of 8% (slashed off $2.80... not that big of a deal).
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: D-EJ915 on Wed, 08 July 2009, 23:54:47: nice price, it's dumb that the "low" mode on the designer is absolutely useless. wish the bottom row wasn't as high either but guess we can't have everything
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Thu, 09 July 2009, 00:28:05: Quote from: willhs;101837
Not sure how to put it into words since my palate of keyboards isn't as broad as most forum viewers, but this is just "smoother" than the cherry blues but with more of a tactile feel and less of a "clicky" sound. To my fingers, the cherry blues make a very neat click, but don't really tell your fingers that the key has been actuated, and you just keep on going until you bottom out. This is more of an instant feeling that you pressed the key WITHOUT much of a noise, and it's much easier to not bottom out. AND when you do bottom out, you are hitting a nice soft membrane instead of hard plastic.
You did just fine putting it into words. I tend to agree with you that the Key Tronic is smother than the cherry blues and quite a bit more tactile feed back. I also tend to bottom out the blues as well. Yes a very quite board almost as quite as a Topre but not quite, it is not nearly as tight as a Topre but it is close.

Quote from: willhs;101837
That's my initial take. I mostly just wanted to type. I'm sure it's not popular to say that membrane is better than cherry blue. :-) There is really no comparison between this Keytronic and any other membrane board I've ever used.

Yea it is not a popular opion that there can be a rubber dome as good as a mechanical board. But then again the Topre is also not a mechanical switch board either and I prefer it over all the other mechanical boards. I just might have to get myself one of the weighted models to see how close it comes to a Topre. Oh and I know that feeling of just wanting to type on the new board.

I've been typing on mine a bit too and I pretty much agree with him in that the Key Tronic does feel better than the Cheery Blues but is quiter than the Browns. The one I have though has a heaver action that what willhs describes so I guess I going to be getting another board to try out. But even with that said I still like the Topre better I guess I will see if I have the same opionon after getting the weighted one.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Thu, 09 July 2009, 09:48:09: Did some research last night and there are several boards that use the weighted membrane... I just googled "site:keytronic.com ergo technology" and it pulled up ~10 boards. Didn't check their availablility or cost, but I did see a really cool looking Mac board that's reminiscent of the old iMacs. :-)

Adding to my impression, this board is extremely lightweight and uses a curved plastic back to achieve the kind of stadium seating on the keys. I'm fairly certain the there is no metal strip in the board, but the plastic has some reinforcement to it and I am unable to bend the board (which I can do with the Scorpius, despite it being a little heavier). I would bet that the Topre has a more substantial feel to it.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Thu, 09 July 2009, 10:16:14: Quote from: willhs;101868
Did some research last night and there are several boards that use the weighted membrane... I just googled "site:keytronic.com ergo technology" and it pulled up ~10 boards. Didn't check their availablility or cost, but I did see a really cool looking Mac board that's reminiscent of the old iMacs. :-)

Adding to my impression, this board is extremely lightweight and uses a curved plastic back to achieve the kind of stadium seating on the keys. I'm fairly certain the there is no metal strip in the board, but the plastic has some reinforcement to it and I am unable to bend the board (which I can do with the Scorpius, despite it being a little heavier). I would bet that the Topre has a more substantial feel to it.

They must have put in some extra plastic because mine is really easy to twist. That is one of the reasons I say it has a cheap feel because the board flexes. If they have fixed this then the board may not have such a cheap feel to it. I just wish they offered a mini or small size board. Every thing they have are full size. I will get one just to see how this new ergo board feels. But I can't order one until next week have get a HHKB Pro first :)
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Thu, 09 July 2009, 22:54:30: Okay, it took 10 nickels to actuate the F key, so it's slightly heavier than the Topre, but not by very much, and I find that I quite like the level of resistance. I put in a lot of QT today, typing up a lot of documents I've been putting off. :-)

So far, so good. Very positive experience. I will try to sell the Scorpius (vs a trade) in the next few days here...
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Fri, 10 July 2009, 11:06:52: Yeah the reviews on Amazon and Buy.com are also universally awesome. I'm sort of surprised this keyboard is so seemingly obscure... maybe they just need to sex it up a little bit. The cheesy "Best Keyboard in the World!" on the box doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but I must say this thing is just a joy to type on.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Fri, 10 July 2009, 11:14:31: Wow, actually you can pick up a really good looking board with the ergo technology for only $15 from NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823131060

Damn...
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 10 July 2009, 11:27:50: Quote from: willhs;101981
Wow, actually you can pick up a really good looking board with the ergo technology for only $15 from NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823131060

Damn...

That's still a membrane, but they say "membrane switch". I doubt its anything more than a weighted rubber dome board.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Fri, 10 July 2009, 12:22:19: Quote from: willhs;101981
Wow, actually you can pick up a really good looking board with the ergo technology for only $15 from NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823131060

Damn...

That looks like the newer one of what I have. And judging from the price I bet just a cheaply built as well. That does not mean it is not a nice keyboard but I can't stand a board that flexes. Also on Key Tronic's web site it does not mention that this board has ergo technology. All the other ergo Tech boards are more expensive than this one. I bet newegg just got the description wrong they do that allot.

Link to Key Tronic for the above board: http://www.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/kt800p1.htm
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Fri, 10 July 2009, 19:02:37: @timw4mail: Yeah, the ergo boards are a membrane that has different weighting, similar to the Topre (though I haven't tried a Topre).

@rdjack, yeah Newegg screws up descriptions sometimes. If anyone's really interested in a cheaper weighted board, maybe email them first to verify that. Otherwise, this $35 board is truly amazing.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Fri, 10 July 2009, 21:09:16: Quote from: willhs;102045
@timw4mail: Yeah, the ergo boards are a membrane that has different weighting, similar to the Topre (though I haven't tried a Topre).

If you had tried a Topre board you would not be typing on a Key Tronic. But then again the price you have to pay for a Topre may not be worth it to you. And I do hope that there is a possibility of a fairly good quality board out there with weighted keys. Because quite a few people would like to have one. Oh well I'm going to get one and check it out but that is a few weeks off yet.

Quote from: willhs;102045
@rdjack, yeah Newegg screws up descriptions sometimes. If anyone's really interested in a cheaper weighted board, maybe email them first to verify that. Otherwise, this $35 board is truly amazing.

Emailing newegg will do you no good. All they will verify is vendor part number and then tell you to call the vendor. They have description and tech specs wrong all over the site and all they will do is tell you to verify with the vendor. What's nutty even after you tell them they have a problem they still don't fix it. I will give them this though they will refund your money if the product is not as described.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: keyb_gr on Mon, 13 July 2009, 04:41:41: Today I had a look at one keyboard gathering dust here in the lab, turns out it's a KT2001. It's a fairly light, not too imprecise, moderately springy rubber dome. Not outright exciting, mind you, but a little better than a Dell (Silitek) SK-3203.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Mon, 13 July 2009, 10:01:28: Quote from: keyb_gr;102349
Today I had a look at one keyboard gathering dust here in the lab, turns out it's a KT2001. It's a fairly light, not too imprecise, moderately springy rubber dome. Not outright exciting, mind you, but a little better than a Dell (Silitek) SK-3203.

Yea the Key Tronic boards are not too bad for a rubber dome board. And like you said they are not exciting but not bad. Now if they would just raise the quality level of the plastics used and made said plastic thicker they would be a little better.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: Milquetoast on Tue, 14 July 2009, 01:09:43: The mid-nineties Key Tronics used were more solidly built. The newer ones are definitely more flimsy, however they still have, in my opinion, the best action of any membrane keyboard, period.

This is probably heresy here, but I actually like the action better than on my Dell AT101W, because Key Tronics have a definite tactile "snap", which happens right at the moment the key press is registered (the Dell still sounds way cooler, though).

I'm sure my cubemates would probably shiv me in the spleen after a couple of hours of exposure to mechanical keyswitches, so I use an E03600 at work. It's basically almost exactly like a Model M in shape and size, with the straight return key and the large backspace (as God intended).

I'm sure they do alright as an OEM and such, but it would be nice if Key Tronic would sex up their line with something more modern. I'd really like to see a compact design like the Filcos, with the ergo layout.

If you're wondering if the ergo thing is really noticable, check out adjacent keys with big force differences, like the keypad 7 and numlock. You'll notice the difference (even it doesn't provide any real benefit, the difference is there.)
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Tue, 14 July 2009, 10:31:58: Quote from: keyb_gr;102349
Today I had a look at one keyboard gathering dust here in the lab, turns out it's a KT2001. It's a fairly light, not too imprecise, moderately springy rubber dome. Not outright exciting, mind you, but a little better than a Dell (Silitek) SK-3203.

Did you try typing for an extended period on it? I've been using mine constantly since I got it, and I absolutely love it. I've definitely found a difference between the keys, and I think it affects my typing -- if you really pay attention while typing, the pinkey keys are a lot easier to manage than the center keys, but the center keys are weighted really well for tactile response. I've typed on model Ms many a time, and this is like a refined version of that.

I totally agree that they should come out with a slimmed down sexy Das-ish keyboard (without the shinyness...). I would bet that the uber keyboard market is probably not worth the time of a giant corporation in terms of margin and overall profit, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm thinking about buying one of the cheaper boards with the ergo and seeing if I can mod it. Would be a fun project.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: keyb_gr on Tue, 14 July 2009, 10:46:32: Quote from: willhs;102527
Did you try typing for an extended period on it?

Not on this dirty thing. It would need a good cleaning first, and I didn't feel much like doing that.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Tue, 14 July 2009, 12:04:52: Quote from: willhs;102527
I'm thinking about buying one of the cheaper boards with the ergo and seeing if I can mod it. Would be a fun project.

From my perspective the DESIGNER-P2 at $59.99 Direct from Key Tronic is a cheap keyboard. Yea I know that is not the case for most people but my idea of expensive has changed since I joined this forum.

I've just purchased another $200+ keyboard and am already looking at another one. I just knew I should not have taken that red pill :( If I did not need to save a little money for vacation (later this month) I would be getting a DESIGNER-P2 as well but it looks like that will have to wait until August.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Tue, 14 July 2009, 18:56:51: It's actually only $35 from Buy.com with free shipping.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: Stevie Wonder on Tue, 14 July 2009, 19:29:03: Man, some you people real snobby about your keyboards.

(http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/s/stuckupsideways1.jpg)(http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/s/stuckupsideways2.jpg)(http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/s/stuckup3.jpg)

Yeah, I know sign language too. I'm more talented than that MJ guy and he gets all the credit.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Tue, 14 July 2009, 20:50:16: Quote from: willhs;102602
It's actually only $35 from Buy.com with free shipping.

Cool thanks I will check them out when I get ready to get one.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Tue, 28 July 2009, 10:49:10: Just to put in another plug, this keyboard is mindblowingly awesome and I can't recommend it more. I'll be writing up a comprehensive review of it for my blog, mostly so I can get even more typing time on it. :-)

I'll post a copy of the article on here when I finish, but I was just wondering if anyone on this forum reading this has this keyboard?
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 28 July 2009, 10:55:36: Quote from: Stevie Wonder;102607
Man, some you people real snobby about your keyboards. Yeah, I know sign language too. I'm more talented than that MJ guy and he gets all the credit.

You are pretty talented, Stevie, if you know sign language.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: iggysaps on Wed, 29 July 2009, 02:03:39: Well I started this thread and after all the input of willhs, i decided to purchase this board too. Plan to use in the house, as it will be the most silent board I am going to have. All the boards I have make a racket, except for the G84, but I only use that when using my laptop.

I liked the fact that he described the feel as a sort of lighter BS, that's good news to me, because of all the keyboards I'm using right now, I especially like the BS spacesaver, except that it gets tiring to type on after awhile. Thanks for all the input.

Cheers!
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: 1cewolf on Wed, 29 July 2009, 20:13:41: This thread convinced me to pick up a Designer P2 and I must say I'm very impressed! It has a very crisp, tactile feel and the weighted keys make it a joy to type on. My fingers just glide across the keys like it's nothing and I can type for hours on end without fatigue.

It's great for gaming, too. It isn't NKRO, obviously, but I've put it through the wringer in Call of Duty 4 and Team Fortress 2 and I have yet to encounter any blocking at all. I've played those same games with a Dell AT101w, ABS M1, and original Microsoft Natural keyboard and none of them are as good as this Keytronic.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Thu, 06 August 2009, 19:58:48: Just checked back in on the thread myself, very glad that people liked the input about the board. I've been typing on it constantly since I got it... as much and as often as I can. Working around the hospital, I am forced to use whatever keyboard is around, and I am constantly reminded why people on this forum don't like membrane boards.

1cwewolf, I couldn't agree more about the tactile feel and ease of typing. I can definitely type on the board much longer than any other board I've tried.

Truly awesome. Still working on a review that does it justice for my blog -- I want something to go up on the internet so people who are researching keyboards give this one a fair shake!
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 06 August 2009, 20:03:13: The college I go to has KeyTronic boards in all the computer labs, but maybe they're really worn, because they just don't seem that spectacular to me.

Then again, maybe I'm just spoiled with the keyboards I have.

I took apart an old KeyTronic, and they are pretty much a hammer over dome mechanism. Other than this, I really don't see what's so nice about these.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Thu, 06 August 2009, 20:05:56: Do those boards have the Ergo technology?

I definitely think people have their own way of typing, and the kind of keyboard that they like. Personally, cherry blues produce a lot of fatigue for me.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Thu, 06 August 2009, 22:08:03: Quote from: timw4mail;107752
The college I go to has KeyTronic boards in all the computer labs, but maybe they're really worn, because they just don't seem that spectacular to me.

Then again, maybe I'm just spoiled with the keyboards I have.

I took apart an old KeyTronic, and they are pretty much a hammer over dome mechanism. Other than this, I really don't see what's so nice about these.

The newer ones are pure rubber dome but good rubber dome. I don't have one of the ergo boards yet but I'm planning on getting one for no other reason than I want to know how they regulate the weight of the keys. The domes on the one I have has bars embeded in the dome and if counted add up perfectly with the weight of the key so I'm thinking that all they do is add or remove them to weight the keys but I still need to get one to know for sure.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: kode on Sat, 08 August 2009, 14:01:20: I've got two key tronic keyboards ("incorporating ergoforce", as well as conductive/grounded space bar), http://www.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/euro_kt2001.htm (KT2001PS2SV, to be exact). They're sort of commonplace here, which I think is because the university bought a whole lot of them. They aren't bad, either, imo. I can at least vouch for them being able to take some abuse (one of mine I saved from the outdoors during rainy season, according to a friend of mine I was walking around with at the time, it had been resting against that shed for at least a week. Took it home, it works like it should). The other one I swiped from a e-waste container at uni.

Doesn't beat my clickys, tho, but it's a good keyboard.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Sun, 09 August 2009, 14:46:26: Also most if not all of there boards have a lifetime warranty as well. The one I have is easy 10 years old and it still feels the same as the day I got it. I have to confess after I dug in my pile I found a few more of them but none of the ergo type boards. Eventually I will get one but I think it is going to take longer than I originally thought.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: willhs on Sun, 09 August 2009, 14:49:00: Yeah there aren't a lot of lifetime warranties on keyboards...
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: quadibloc on Sun, 09 August 2009, 16:26:49: I know that the keyboard I chose for my first PC-compatible (a 10 MHz NEC V-20 based XT clone) was a keyboard by KeyTronic, which had the standard 101-key layout (as opposed to an AT-like modification thereof, which was the default choice). It was a major independent manufacturer of PC-clone keyboards right from the earliest days.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: bond1 on Sat, 22 August 2009, 16:50:08: I just joined here after doing some research for a new keyboard. I'm glad to see this thread - I've been using a Keytronic Classic U2 keyboard and it is my favorite "everyday" keyboard.

I have a Unicomp which is very nice, but a bit loud for quiet times. And I'm selling my Filco with MX brown switches, keys are too light and not enough tactile response.

But the Keytronic is just right, has a fantastic feel, dead quiet, and gets the most use.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Sat, 22 August 2009, 16:55:06: Quote from: bond1;111368
I just joined here after doing some research for a new keyboard. I'm glad to see this thread - I've been using a Keytronic Classic U2 keyboard and it is my favorite "everyday" keyboard.

I have a Unicomp which is very nice, but a bit loud for quiet times. And I'm selling my Filco with MX brown switches, keys are too light and not enough tactile response.

But the Keytronic is just right, has a fantastic feel, dead quiet, and gets the most use.

welcome to geekhack! (;
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Sat, 22 August 2009, 22:15:44: Quote from: bond1;111368
I just joined here after doing some research for a new keyboard. I'm glad to see this thread - I've been using a Keytronic Classic U2 keyboard and it is my favorite "everyday" keyboard.

I have a Unicomp which is very nice, but a bit loud for quiet times. And I'm selling my Filco with MX brown switches, keys are too light and not enough tactile response.

But the Keytronic is just right, has a fantastic feel, dead quiet, and gets the most use.
Welcome to geekhack!

I agree the Keytronic boards are not too bad for the price. But the quality of them leaves something to be desired. I still plan on getting one of those ergo(weighted keys) keytronics boards just so I can see how it feels and so I can take it apart and see how they did it. Oh if you want to see what the inside of your Keytronic looks like take look here http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6499
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: bond1 on Sun, 23 August 2009, 09:03:47: Thanks for the welcomes!

Cool article, I haven't taken my Key Tronic apart. My particular keyboard is one of their red logo "Lifetime" series, and a bit more expensive than the $15 model in that article. I wonder if the guts are the same...

Anyway, yeah it doesn't have the same weighty feel of my unicomp or Filco. But the key action just feels so good, crisp and tactile,not a hint of sponginess, and the keys bottom out in a pleasant way, with a nice soft definitive "thud". I've been using it for 3 years now, and even though it has a lifetime warranty, I still bought a backup just in case - I like it that much.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: rdjack21 on Sun, 23 August 2009, 11:41:10: Oh we are big believers of having a back up here so don't feel lonely. The problem is I think I have around 10 back up boards and have a few more on the way. I may have to get one of the lifetime boards as well. Actually I may have one in my pile of rubber dome boards I'll have to look.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: masta on Mon, 26 October 2009, 21:57:21: Damn, I have a Keytronic ErgoForce KT2001 and I just broke my spacebar by throwing something in the air.

It's still in perfect condition except for the spacebar after 7 years of intense usage. Some keys are a little shiny but the labels are indestructibles.

It's AWESOME for gaming and very good for typing. You really can feel the ergoforce technology.

I guess the new KT2001 is the DESIGNER-P2?

Some of you say they should make a smaller version of the keyboard but I like the shape of the KT2001. You can rest your palm on the bottom part of the keyboard. It's really comfortable. Whereas I have a filco with black switches and I can feel the veins in my left hand pop up due to the position.

Mine is solidly build (IBM Model M like), so I guess the DESIGNER-P2 is worse?

I emailed Keytronic but they stopped selling oversea due to the WEEE regulations that were implemented in europe... Damn!

Do you guys in Sweden still have online shops that sell them?
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Mon, 26 October 2009, 23:25:04: I have several Keytronic boards and I love them to death. They may be rubber domes, but they're really sturdy and rarely jam up when you hit the keys at the wrong angle. Also, the spacebars have a great action to them.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: kode on Tue, 27 October 2009, 03:29:32: Quote from: masta;128490

Do you guys in Sweden still have online shops that sell them?

Not that I've seen, no. I have friends who swear by them and fear the day their KT2001 breaks down. I've found most of mine in recycling cages in the university campus underpass, which only means that employees are phasing them out in favour of crappier rubberdomes.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: masta on Tue, 27 October 2009, 05:02:26: Damn, I guess I will have to use a service that gives you an US address but Im a little tired of paying 40€ of taxes per keyboard.

About the keyboard, it's built like a tank. You just have 2 pieces: the plastic key cap and the rubber dome that covers the whole keyboard area. I can't believe I managed to break it. I threw somemthing heavy in the air, then it fell on the space bar. I broke the hard plastic part when it hit the bottom of the keyboard I guess.

The keys get looser but even after 7 years it's still very good.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: skriefal on Tue, 27 October 2009, 08:55:45: Have you checked eBay for any good-condition used Keytronic boards in Europe? These might not be as ideal as a new one, but at least you could avoid the import/customs fees.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: overdriver on Tue, 27 October 2009, 11:05:10: try to buy E03600 or E03601 series if you can - E03601 has large L-shape Enter key - because its Keys withstand over 30 million keystrokes and Ergo tech instead of just 10 million of other Keytronic one.

I have had E3601 for past 6 good years. I also have had IBM M keyboard at same time and Dell AT101W incoming. Due to the complaint from my family I cannot use my beloved mechanical keyboards.. I tried many other membrane or rubber dome ones (even newer IBM keyboards) but I settled with Keytronic E03601.
I won't say it is the best but I will say this is the one of the best Keytronic one.

Out of curiosity I tried to disassemble one but I broke Space bar LOL...!! I will order new one soon while I hear the same complaint from my family.. arg
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: kode on Tue, 27 October 2009, 17:27:08: I actually heard someone on irc claim that the key tronics are too noisy... :)
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 27 October 2009, 19:46:29: I think some people should just be locked in a padded room...
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: handyrandyrc on Wed, 05 May 2010, 20:18:47: I'm a complete newb. Have a Key Tronic E03601 (E03601QUS201-C) from the old days. This thing has the differently-weighted 'ergo' keys. You can tell quite a difference in the feel. Bought this thing back in the 90s, if I am remembering correctly. We knew these Key Tronic keyboards worked better than the other cheapies of the day, so spent the little extra for them. This has a PS/2 connector.

This was in a closet at my parent's house. I had completely forgotten about this thing!! It's seen many an hour of Diablo and Starcraft games when I was a teen.

(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm159/handyrandyrc/IMG00063-20100505-1910.jpg)

(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm159/handyrandyrc/IMG00062-20100505-1910.jpg)

(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm159/handyrandyrc/IMG00061-20100505-1909.jpg)

Have not tested rollover -- is that how many keys that can be depressed simultaneously and have them all register? I'll have to read the FAQ on here on how to test that.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: nasse on Sat, 04 December 2010, 06:38:26: Quote from: low-fi;100905
Key Tronics were extremely popular in Finland in the nineties-early 00s. For their price, I consider them to be really good rubber dome 'boards. The Designer model you linked resembles the KT2001 model I've been using, and I think it has a pretty nice feel. It's not really as good as e.g. Model M, but sometimes I prefer Keytronic's light feel to mechanical switches.

They are very good keyboards for gaming, because they have good rollover-ability (not exactly NKRO, but still enough) and a precise feel. They're good for writing, I wouldn't really mind writing a novel on one. The keycaps are somewhat tall, the same as Model M.

I suggest you try it out. They're definitely not as good as expensive mechanical boards, but way above contemporary Logitech and Microsoft crap.

I actually thought about starting a KeyTronic appreciation thread a while ago.

You might be right on that those are pretty popular in Finland ;)
I went looking for some Model M's and those Key Tronics were basically only 'old' keyboards that i found.
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/307/20101203162610.jpg)
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: wanabe on Sat, 04 December 2010, 09:55:13: i just want to add that i really, really like my Keytronic E03601. Sometimes it makes me wonder why i invest so much in my mechanicals
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: bond1 on Mon, 06 December 2010, 01:45:02: Quote from: wanabe;256902
Sometimes it makes me wonder why i invest so much in my mechanicals

For sure! I absolutely LOVE my KeyTronic Classic U-2. The key action is unbelievable , not just for a rubber dome keyboard, but in spite of it. I have a Unicomp, a FILCO, and an old NMB, but I keep coming back to the Keytronic.

I'll also add that while the other Keytronic models I've tried are good, none of them have the exact feel of their "Classic" branded line of boards, which I think are the best by far.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 06 December 2010, 15:11:35: I tried one out at a thrift store yesterday, and the keys felt...weird. It's a very smooth action with barely a tactile bump. I'm more used to Quietkeys and the like, which have very strong tactile points.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: wanabe on Mon, 06 December 2010, 15:14:19: Quote from: Pylon;258230
I tried one out at a thrift store yesterday, and the keys felt...weird. It's a very smooth action with barely a tactile bump. I'm more used to Quietkeys and the like, which have very strong tactile points.

you must have tried one that was worn out. the keytronics ive tried have pretty sharp tactile bumps. They feel similar to quietkeys in my opinion
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: Tony on Thu, 13 January 2011, 00:55:13: Thanks to this topic, I have decided to buy a second-hand Keytronic keyboard, and it is lucky that I now got the Keytronic E03601 OPTMSEB-C that you have mentioned.

I am surprised at its quietness, which is very good for my office :-) A IBM Model M would wake up a lot of my colleagues :-)

The typing feelings is excellent for a membrane keyboard. I like it, and it even boost my typing speed a bit. This keyboard feels right at home, for a cheap price.

Thank you guys at Geekhack for your sharing experience and in-depth discussions. It helps me and others a lot.
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: palad1 on Sat, 30 July 2011, 12:13:29: I'm suffering from withdrawal from my KT2001. I thought the DAS ultimate would cure this, but to no avail.

I have ordered an E03600U2 from an amazon vendor, would anyone know the difference between those and the KT2001 ? Looking at the specs here:

E03600U2 (http://keyboards.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/e03600u1.htm)
CLASSIC-U2 (http://keyboards.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/classic-u1.htm)

It seems like the E... is slightly heavier, and that the classic has an L-shaped key, but I was curious if you guys had any more info.

I've tried a Topre yesterday, and it brought back memories of the KT2001, I realized I had it with the crappy plastic toys like the natural keyboard and I needed a True Man's keyboard. Albeit one that doesn't cost 200 quid ;)
Title: Key Tronic Keyboards?
Post by: palad1 on Sat, 30 July 2011, 12:29:39: Thanks; I'll make a mental note to stash away 20p coins :)