geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Karura on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:19:53

Title: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Karura on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:19:53

Considering the jump from TKL -> 60%.

Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?

What was your reason?

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: isaske on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:25:01

I switch back and forth.

While 60% really look cute, the layout on the TKLs is more satisfying and functional to me.
I like having the F-row and the arrow keys.

It's all personal preference though, i game a lot and also play sc2 at a high level. Hence i need the F-row :)

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: skuko on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:26:44

used poker 2 for a about a week, but i simply couldn't stand the lack of an arrow cluster, went back to TKL

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:27:11

75% looks in the middle :D

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Jokrik on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:29:25

me,
I keep looking for the arrow cluster, not nice when you keep hitting the top of the table looking for it
but the lightsaver is the bomb, it's as compact as TKL but even has the numpad
It's nice to have an enter key next to your mouse

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Sent on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:32:24

Never really felt the need for a TKL.  I can type and function just as fast/well on a 60% board.  65% is even better, though, in my opinion.  Dedicated arrow cluster is nice.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: nuclearsandwich on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:39:44

It all depends on what I'm doing. I've had 60% boards at work (where most of what I do is write prose) that I don't really miss the extra keys, although I have gotten very adept at using shifted keys. Every prior adventure in switching back to tenkeyless at work left me thinking "I have to move my hands to get to the arrows?" so perhaps there's something in the shifted layout. I plan to swap out for a tenkeyless at work all next month so we'll see what happens.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: StylinGreymon on Fri, 24 October 2014, 03:55:48

I thought I would miss dedicated cursors and nav clusters, but I haven't so much as touched my Filco TKL since buying my Poker II over a year ago.
It just gathers dust on a shelf, now.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:08:35

There's no coming back !

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: bueller on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:22:54

I switched pretty regularly when I all I had were my Pures and Filco TKL but now that I've got my GH60 up and running I'm done with the Filco.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Karura on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:23:36

Honestly I love 75% layouts, but the only available keyboard right now is the Duck 75%; however, I am not the biggest fan of the nub.

Even in black where it is less noticeable, I still don't know how I feel about it =/

I love sharp edges, and the nub is an interesting addition :D

(http://i.imgur.com/9g3r69w.jpg)

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Sent on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:25:57

Quote from: Karura on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:23:36

Honestly I love 75% layouts, but the only available keyboard right now is the Duck 75%; however, I am not the biggest fan of the nub.

Even in black where it is less noticeable, I still don't know how I feel about it =/

I love sharp edges, and the nub is an interesting addition :D

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/9g3r69w.jpg)

Yup.  That nub is the only reason I didn't get that board. :(  So sad.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Karura on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:27:22

Quote from: Sent on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:25:57

Quote from: Karura on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:23:36

Honestly I love 75% layouts, but the only available keyboard right now is the Duck 75%; however, I am not the biggest fan of the nub.

Even in black where it is less noticeable, I still don't know how I feel about it =/

I love sharp edges, and the nub is an interesting addition :D

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/9g3r69w.jpg)

Yup.  That nub is the only reason I didn't get that board. :(  So sad.

I think we gave a little bit of feedback but it was not heard :(

If it was straight like the lightsaver, I think I'd instaorder :D

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: StylinGreymon on Fri, 24 October 2014, 04:34:09

I saw some early Eagle/Viper mock ups and all I can say is I'm glad that the nub didn't make the final cut :)

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 24 October 2014, 05:09:24

I switch regularly between HHKB and various TKL boards (not to mention a couple of full size boards, including a Model M).

The only real problem switching back to TKL is the backspace.  Backspace on HHKB is where \| key is on TKL keyboard, so I find myself typing \\\ instead of backspacing errors.  For the first 10 minutes or so.

The biggest thing I missed using HHKB on Windows was the arrow keys, and home/end.  On Mac I can use Ctrl sequences to do the same thing, so I don't miss the arrow keys as much.

Have you considered Leopold FC660M or FC660C?  60% layout plus arrow keys!

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 24 October 2014, 05:12:13

Quote from: rowdy on Fri, 24 October 2014, 05:09:24

I switch regularly between HHKB and various TKL boards (not to mention a couple of full size boards, including a Model M).

The only real problem switching back to TKL is the backspace.  Backspace on HHKB is where \| key is on TKL keyboard, so I find myself typing \\\ instead of backspacing errors.  For the first 10 minutes or so.

The biggest thing I missed using HHKB on Windows was the arrow keys, and home/end.  On Mac I can use Ctrl sequences to do the same thing, so I don't miss the arrow keys as much.

Have you considered Leopold FC660M or FC660C?  60% layout plus arrow keys!

use spacefn?

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 24 October 2014, 05:21:07

Quote from: yasuo on Fri, 24 October 2014, 05:12:13

Quote from: rowdy on Fri, 24 October 2014, 05:09:24

I switch regularly between HHKB and various TKL boards (not to mention a couple of full size boards, including a Model M).

The only real problem switching back to TKL is the backspace.  Backspace on HHKB is where \| key is on TKL keyboard, so I find myself typing \\\ instead of backspacing errors.  For the first 10 minutes or so.

The biggest thing I missed using HHKB on Windows was the arrow keys, and home/end.  On Mac I can use Ctrl sequences to do the same thing, so I don't miss the arrow keys as much.

Have you considered Leopold FC660M or FC660C?  60% layout plus arrow keys!

use spacefn?

Took me long enough to learn HHKB layout, now you are trying to get me to learn another trick? :p :))

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 24 October 2014, 05:34:54

I have a 60%, a 75% and a TKL. Just in terms of looks, my V60 Mini is my favourite. In terms of functionality I think my 75% is my favourite. And my TKL combines the two.

I think I prefer my 60% over my TKL overall though. While I need the arrow keys for things now, my 60% is my favourite of the 3.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 24 October 2014, 06:37:18

Really all I'm doing on my computer is typing and gaming, so 60% is really has all the keys I need

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 24 October 2014, 06:50:51

I do a lot of moving pieces of text around and I find my 60% is a bit of a hassle to use for this, but I still use it. Haven't gone back to TKL and I don't think I ever will, since the benefits of the 60% size (mouse hand closer, main keys more central to the screen, portability, less large hand movements, looks) outweigh the hassles for me.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Fri, 24 October 2014, 07:08:14

V60 mini has an option where you can lock ( like caps lock) the bottom right mods to be an arrow cluster.

It works really really well, any time I DO feel the need for devoted arrow cluster I can have it, then change it back in two key strokes and the fn layer arrows are accessible enough for general use.

Tbh once I really got used to my 60% it's just as fast for the writing and small about of coding I do.

I think 60% skeptics don't realize just how nice not moving your arms around is for productivity

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: limitz on Fri, 24 October 2014, 07:11:53

Absolutely. I have a Poker 2, but it is very rarely used.

No function row and no arrow keys seriously hampered my productivity. Not to mention the other navigation keys (Home, End, PgUp, PgDown) all need to have the user hold down Fn + Key. Just not very productive.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: ComradeSniper on Fri, 24 October 2014, 08:36:09

I only went back to TKL because there are too many cool TKL Korean Customs. Otherwise I much prefer 60%.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Lain1911 on Fri, 24 October 2014, 08:50:47

I use 60% for typing. I've gotten use to holding Fn and wasd for arrows and whatever else I need. I use TLK for gaming but I've also considered a 75% Keycool if I can get one cheap enough.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: 0100010 on Fri, 24 October 2014, 08:51:13

What about one that is a little like a Plum96 and a Lightsaver?  This is based on a design TheProfosist (sp?) had put out a while back :

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b40f198fba6ef9b85a3e70eb2487d5c7

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: dimamantra on Fri, 24 October 2014, 09:01:43

I mainly use my 60% for general computer use and IRC while my TKL is for gaming.

Having the F row available helps in a lot of games.

I'm also considering another TKL right now for the office.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: pichu23 on Fri, 24 October 2014, 09:09:39

I prefer my 60% more but have no problem going back to my tkl.
The size of the 60% is just too cute to resist! :D

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: inanis on Fri, 24 October 2014, 09:42:24

I go back and forth between a 60% and a TKL. At work I use a 60% pretty much all the time. At home, the other members of my household can't understand a 60% at all. So, on the shared computer (which is actually my desktop, but has somehow morphed into something everyone feels they can use) has as TKL.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: bueller on Fri, 24 October 2014, 09:45:26

Quote from: ConscienceDrop on Fri, 24 October 2014, 07:08:14

V60 mini has an option where you can lock ( like caps lock) the bottom right mods to be an arrow cluster.

It works really really well, any time I DO feel the need for devoted arrow cluster I can have it, then change it back in two key strokes and the fn layer arrows are accessible enough for general use.

Tbh once I really got used to my 60% it's just as fast for the writing and small about of coding I do.

I think 60% skeptics don't realize just how nice not moving your arms around is for productivity

The Pure has the same mode, I've programmed my GH60 to do the same because I never need any or those mods.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: saturnotaku on Fri, 24 October 2014, 10:04:38

Quote from: dimamantra on Fri, 24 October 2014, 09:01:43

I mainly use my 60% for general computer use and IRC while my TKL is for gaming.

Having the F row available helps in a lot of games.

I'm also considering another TKL right now for the office.

In the same boat here. This is my fist day with an HHKB at work, and so far, so good. The smaller layout is not as great an impediment to my workflow as I thought, but I'm going to give it a few weeks before making a final decision.

At home, though, because 1) I game and 2) my wife uses my computer sometimes, a TKL is necessary. The Realforce 87U suits my needs perfectly in this application.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: ajx on Sat, 25 October 2014, 04:04:06

Quote from: pichu23 on Fri, 24 October 2014, 09:09:39

I prefer my 60% more but have no problem going back to my tkl.
The size of the 60% is just too cute to resist! :D

Pikachu = TKL
Pichu = 60%
Too cute to resist  ;D
I went from TKL to 60% (but i was using 60% on the past, TKL was still too huge and took more room than i expected)
The compactness of 60% wins over TKL functions (arrows, F1,F2 etc... )
 

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 25 October 2014, 17:06:08

I pulled out my Leopold TKL for an ongoing Arduino project, due to the easier access to nav keys.  I miss the mousing space I had with my Poker, can't wait to finish so I can go back.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: keyhopper on Sat, 25 October 2014, 17:19:35

Consider this:

      - After a long days work, you load the newspaper in your favorite browser and grab some cheetos.

      - You want to scroll the page, but both of your hands are greasy. You don't want to touch your precious keyboard or mouse/trackball with your fingers.

      - That leaves the knuckles. But your left hand is busy holding the bag of cheetos.

      - So you hit PageDown or DownArrow with a knuckle on your right hand.

I can't do this with a 60% KB :) :) because I would have to press FN + <whatever key has pgDown on FN layer>   and I only have one knuckle available, because the other hand is holding the cheetos :)

Cheers!
.KeyHopper.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 25 October 2014, 18:12:25

My first 60% was a Poker II with mx blues, but I did not like the sound or feel of the switches, and the layout was just not quite right.

Then I was fortunate enough to find an IBM Model M SSK in excellent condition and used it happily for some time, but I kept sampling various keyboards, looking for the ultimate typing experience.

Finally, I tried the HHKB Pro 2, and it was love at first type. I liked everything about the HHKB, including the 60% form factor, the dye-sub PBT keycaps, and the superb layout. Nevertheless, I was not quite satisfied with the sound and feel of the switches.

More recently, I decided to try Realforce: RF 87ub 55g and RF 87ub 45g. I like them both, with a slight preference for the 55g. They sound and feel more solid than the HHKB Pro 2, and I now use them more frequently than any other boards.

Someday I hope to get a Type-S HHKB Pro 2 and put 55g domes in it. This might be just about the perfect 60% board that will lure me away from my RF TKLs.

Title: Re: Anyone go back to TKL from 60%?
Post by: pichu23 on Sat, 25 October 2014, 18:17:49

Quote from: ajx on Sat, 25 October 2014, 04:04:06

Quote from: pichu23 on Fri, 24 October 2014, 09:09:39

I prefer my 60% more but have no problem going back to my tkl.
The size of the 60% is just too cute to resist! :D

Pikachu = TKL
Pichu = 60%
Too cute to resist  ;D
I went from TKL to 60% (but i was using 60% on the past, TKL was still too huge and took more room than i expected)
The compactness of 60% wins over TKL functions (arrows, F1,F2 etc... )

haha, :D
but yes 60%'s compactness is a win for me.  ;D