you could just buy one of those separate numpads.
You should really consider making the switch to a trackball for that hand pain. After increasing strain from the mouse, about 2 years ago, I switched and haven't looked back. Pain free, strain free.
Tenkeyless to get the pointing device closer does help. And definitely get an external keypad. You can place it out of the way until you need to use it. Now you have 3 things to purchase.
Show Image(http://www.shareware-beach.com/photos/J1282752.jpg)
This has a scroll wheel :)
I do recommend trying to use the standard number keys before the keypad. Like anything you'll get better over time. I simply use the number row as homerow while entering numbers. I also remapped tilde to period.
I've got a keypad but it'll only come out during tax season.
P.S. THAT is a $250 collectible device that should not be used but stuck in a box somewhere.
I don't know why but I'd have to be hard pressed to buy a Microsoft product. The Logitech Trackman Wheel is similar and has a scrollwheel, too.Show Image(http://www.logitech.com/repository/1162/jpg/9624.1.0.jpg)
Sorry to derail this thread a tad, but this is a common misconception. The Trackman is garbage :( And everyone who owns an MSO, has tried one (or quite a few have according to a previous thread). The ball is too small...and it's Logitech - which have been in the market of designing flaws into their peripherals for quite a while. A lot of the people who use an MSO here on the board, have been using one for 5+ years, without fail.
Don't mean to go off on such a tangent, but if you're seriously considering a thumb controlled trackball, I would prefer if someone didn't taint their experience with the Trackman.
The Trackman is garbage :( [...] The ball is too small...and it's Logitech - which have been in the market of designing flaws into their peripherals for quite a while.
Oh man if that is not a flame war waiting to happen I don't know one. The Trackman is far from being a POS and yes I have tried the MSO and personally did not like it. Even though I did not like it I don't go around trash talking it like you have the Trackman. I've been using Trackman's ever since they first came out (10+ years) and have never had a problem with them. Every body has their personal favorite trackball weather it is the Trackman the MSO or the any one of the Kensington trackballs. Even though you have decided you like the MSO does not mean every one likes it for what ever reason. So please lets stop the trash talk.
But I admit that yours is probably bigger than mine ;)
Sure you did. Otherwise why post a collectors trackball?? At least the Logitech is cheap and easy to throw away if you don't like. :fencing:
Sorry, one last one from me.
My balls are bigger than yours.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2325&stc=1&d=1240420980)
We need to start posting more in the pointing devices part of the forum. Pretty sleepy over there.
MsKeyboard has said the Fentek one uses blue cherrys if you can't find any in Canada.
Back on subject!!!!!!!!
I'm starting to think the tenkeyless boards are not quite small enough. So how about a HHKB Pro instead? I would think for a travel keyboard the HHKB could not be beat. I think the only think I would miss on the HHKB is the function keys. I use those allot. But all that junk to the right of the enter key is pretty usless. I mean if you are going to get rid of the num pad why not go all the way and get rid of every thing except the main alpha section and the function keys. I'm actually supprised that Filco has not come out with a board that drops all of that other stuff as well.
I would be very unhappy with a HHKB because of the layout. But I agree that the Tenkeyless can be improved. The right control key could have been removed to allow the arrrow keys to be moved closer. The other keys could be aligned vertically instead of horizontally.
Yes take this one:Show Image(http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/minitouch.jpg)
Fix the enter key move \ to the correct place switch caps lock and Ctrl change the switch from white Alps to Cherry or better yet Topre and it would be a great board. Small and functional. I actually have this one but I really don't like the White Alps in it. I'm thinking I should either sell it or replace the White Alps with Black Alps which are OK. At some point I will make up my mind but I'm beginning to lean towards fixing it verses getting rid of it.
This is a nice keyboard. Too bad keyboards cannot be customized to each buyer's tastes. That would have been cool.
This is a nice keyboard. Too bad keyboards cannot be customized to each buyer's tastes. That would have been cool.
Sorry, one last one from me.
My balls are bigger than yours.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2325&stc=1&d=1240420980)
We need to start posting more in the pointing devices part of the forum. Pretty sleepy over there.
Yes, that left handed keyboard (http://www.fentek-ind.com/modular.htm#kblhusbsb) is Blue Cherry.
If there are any specific questions about this board I would be more than happy to try and answer them.
Later....
I use Win+L a lot here at work (it locks your PC), but that's about the Windows key use I ever get. I am sure I would find others more useful, but I don't ever care to learn any others.
You really don't need a compact board if the issue is RSI.
I just meant a 10keyless is fine if the issue is bringing the mouse in to a comfortable distance. Once you shave off 5 inches there's no need shave another 2" (the HHKB is 11.6 inches wide).
Some people would argue the HHKB is better because of the layout but if it's your right hand that hurts the arrow keys on the HHKB are a REAL pain. Try it. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6152)
It would be interesting if it was possible to design a somewhat generic grid of key switches that would allow the end user to attach either single or multi-span key caps to the switches, similar to the programmable macro boards (but with an offset, rather then regular grid).
That would allow some customization of the key layout (within some bounds). Alternatively targeting a smaller niche market one could build a keyboard "kit" that comes un-assembled, the end user would have to solder the key switches in place (again with some limits on possible configurations), and possibly program the controller to give the key assignments desired.
Patrick, have you ever tried a trackball or mouse with your left hand?? I believe there are right handers here that are able to do that exclusively. I do a combo of both to give my right hand a break. The Logitech marble is cheap and commonly available - maybe just for Excel and web browsing. Use a third party app for the scroll using the ball - not bad really.
The whole 10keyless, numpad, ergo mice, thing is starting to add up $$$ and you don't seem sold on 10keyless.
I am a righty but use a trackball on the left hand side. In the beginning it is very much goofy mousing.
It takes a week or so but it becomes sane. I can mouse with either hand now, but still keep the mouse on the left hand side. Even though I use keyboards without numpads I find the mouse more advantageous on the left hand side. Scrolling is no longer a big deal for me since the arrow keys/page up-down are easily accessed with the right hand. YMMV of course but it works out very well. The downside is getting lefthanded mice. Hence my affinity for kensington mice.
This (http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/77ba/) is almost what you describe. 25 keys doesn't seem like it would be enough, though :smile:
I'm tempted to say that learning to use the keypad with my left hand can potentially cause more harm than good as I may adopt a bad posture. However, I cannot say for sure until I've tried it.
Yeah, somebody try the Fentek one. It may be a sleeper since nobody here has tried it.
I'm starting to think the tenkeyless boards are not quite small enough.
If I'm getting this right you have the black alps version of this. I would think the Blue Cherry one (from Fentek) would be pretty nice. I think the big remaining issues are though the retraining for left handed arrow key and 10key use. Arrow keys should take minimal retraining but I was surprised how bad I was left handed on a numpad.
If I'm getting this right you have the black alps version of this.
Having tried a G80-1800 and a 'compact' keyboard (the shortboard I wrote a review of) I'd agree. I feel that now neither of them were really small enough and it's only with my current keyboard with absolutely nothing except a ~17mm surround to the left of enter do I feel I don't need to keep moving my keyboard. Ideally I'd like a filco-like thiness of surround too, but that'll go on my wish list next to N-key rollover and complicated alps.
I still don't feel tenlesskey has reduced pains of my right arm.
I still don't feel tenlesskey has reduced pains of my right arm.
The next funny thing: Most of CAD-Software uses dots for decimal separators. In Germany we use the komma. So the ger Keypads are useless in a way because we have to move to the [.] anyway.
So I use a programmable num-pad from Cherry which allows me to chose between [,] and [.] but what to do with the original numpad of the keyboard? I'd like to cut that thing but the only keyboards I know that have a layout like this, are the Model M spacesavers, the Filco tenkeyless Boards and the Realforce 87U.
And they aren't available here.
That's somehow ridiculus, but everyone lives with that so the companies wouldn't change a thing.
Sometimes I just hate my country.
For me, brown cherry is not meant for ergonomic use(not to reduce your pain). Moreover the tenlesskey version is not really reducing pain. Actually it's kind of a bit dilemmatic to choose how you're going to type.
For light touch typing;
I'm feeling insensibility for the keys over time.
If you want a quiet keyboard, brown is not the choice. When you're trying to dampen the sound by typing lightly, u put more pressure on your shoulders and wrists, see what will happen.
And for me, I find my self constantly doing typos and the keys sometimes are pressed repeatedly, ex; jjjjjjjjj.
Hard touch is almost the same. The only good is I do less typos.
And so far I feel more pain rather than using my old rubber dome. That's just me:D
I might change my opinion over time.
On the blue cherries, I'm getting pretty good at using a light touch typing. Like you mentionned, I was making a high number of typos when learning how to develop a light tough.
You can remap the dot/comma on the keypad to send a period from the main keyboard area instead.
In Windows you can use KeyTweak (semi-permanent, requires a reboot to change) or AutoHotkey (temporary, start or stop the script to change.)
If you just want to remap a single key, you can use the keyboard layout editor from Microsoft and create a new keyboard layout. It's fast and doesn't require registry hacks or software to run. Installing on other computers is also quite easy, just pop the file it creates in the right folder and you're settled.
-huha
How come nobody talks about Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator? Looks pretty intuitive.While it can do a number of things, it cannot reassign keys like Caps Lock. For that you have to resort to the global registry mapping stuff or AHK.
I find AutoHotkey powerful but incredibly frustrating since the documentation is so poor. The forum is not very helpful either.The problem is that AHK is a whole workshop while we'd be pretty much satisfied with half a swiss army knife.
I think the browns are a bit lighter then the blues. Certainly quieter without the click but I tend to bottom out anyways so there is some noise. If you are light on the keys and don't bottom out then you could possibly be all ninja like.
I personally prefer the browns over the blues as the high pitched click gets on my nerves. But thats me. YMMV.
Also, the tactile point on the browns is not meant to be as well defined.
If you are light on the keys and don't bottom out then you could possibly be all ninja like.
the tactile bump in the cherry brown is a figment of most peoples imagination : )
I kid, I kid. There is a bump there but when typing at speed I don't really notice it, hence the bottoming out. For whatever reason I still like the browns though. I like to call them sublime.
Its pretty cool that you control the force and not bottom out. I tend to bottom out more often then not, but coming off of bs keys will do that to you. I think over time I would adjust better but I have a hard time sticking with one keyboard long enough for that to happen.
Now that I have used the browns for quite some time, I feel the tactile bump with no problems. When I was coming off the ABS and trying out the browns on an old MX-11800, I could barely tell. As I have learned to lighten my touch with the browns, I love them more and more.
IMO, the blues are a lot louder than the browns. All of the sound difference is in the click. Like pook, I find the blues annoying, too, so I might perceive a greater sound difference than what is actually there.
I find AutoHotkey powerful but incredibly frustrating since the documentation is so poor. The forum is not very helpful either.
I find AutoHotkey powerful but incredibly frustrating since the documentation is so poor. The forum is not very helpful either.
I wish someone here did an AutoHotkey workshop to get others who are interested started. Short introduction, some Q&A, some practice. Something like that.
Patrick, I think you've heard them already but for others following the thread lots of sound samples are here (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6617). Set your volume using the mouse click.
If I were you I'd not get the Brown Cherries and just save up for a Topre - it is the quietest board by far. Maybe when they come out with a new super duper model. Cheaper to turn the fan on though to mask the noise.
If I were you I'd not get the Brown Cherries and just save up for a Topre - it is the quietest board by far.
My specific problem is under Vista I just can't seem to remap Pause or ScrollLock for my HHKB2 script. Tried MULTIPLE variations. Tried Raj's. Tried posting there even after other people asked the same question. Nada.
The following keys are not supported by the built-in remapping method:
* The mouse wheel (WheelUp/Down/Left/Right).
* Pause and Break as destination keys (since they match the names of commands).
* Curly braces {} as destination keys. Instead use the VK/SC method; e.g. x::+sc01A and y::+sc01B
* A percent sign (%) as a destination key. Instead use the VK/SC method.
* "Return" as a destination key. Instead use "Enter".