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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Hypersphere on Sun, 02 November 2014, 17:43:49
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Recently, I bought a RF 87ub 55g and a RF87ub 45g ("EK Edition") with the intention of deciding which one I liked better and then selling the other one. Naturally, I have to make up my own mind, but my indecision made me wonder if others found it difficult to choose between these two boards, perhaps because the differences between them are not sufficiently great to make obvious distinctions between the two.
There are only three differences of which I am aware:
1. Nominal 55g vs 45g Topre switches across the board.
2. 45g has red LEDs, whereas the 55g has blue LEDs (on Num Lock and both locations of Caps Lock).
3. 45g has improved legends, but with the black on dark gray color scheme, the legends are virtually invisible anyway.
Obviously, the main functional difference ought to be the key weights between the two. There can be some variance in key weights of Topre switches, and I have not done any objective measurements.
My Typeracer speed and accuracy scores are sometimes better on the 55g and at other times they are better on the 45g.
Subjectively, at times the 55g feels agreeably heavier and more responsive than the 45g. At these times, the 55g seems to provide more of the "Topre experience" than the 45g, making me think that I ought to prefer the 55g. However, at other times, the 55g feels more fatiguing than the 45g, making me think that I ought to prefer the 45g -- after all, this switch weight (or even lighter) is the one most commonly found on Topre-switch keyboards, such as the 45g RF, some of the switches on the variable RF, RF 104 HiPro, HHKB Pro 2, Leopold FC660C, Type Heaven, and Novatouch.
In my case, there is no clear winner. The solution might be to keep both keyboards in a keyboard rotation or to use one at home and the other at work.
Apart from my own dilemma, I would be interested in knowing if others have found it difficult or easy to choose between these two keyboards.
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This is really something that you can only answer yourself.
But let me just say one thing about my experiences with the "heavier" switches. I have also been in situations where I compared them head to head and used each for short periods of time. In that situation I like them both equally. It is only when I was tired, and sitting 10+ hours a day behind the computer getting work done where I personally felt like "what the #$% kind of idiot am I for having these heavy $(*$ switches".
While they felt nice in the short run, for real every day use it was not even close. I have a really strong preference for the lighter switches (I have a 45g uniform board, and a variable weight board).
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In my case, there is no clear winner. The solution might be to keep both keyboards in a keyboard rotation or to use one at home and the other at work.
Within your question, you have found the answer. I am very proud of you young grasshopper. You are on the path to keyboard zen.
Your next task is to take the pebble from the bottom of the lake without getting your arm wet.
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55g is the general preference, but I love my 45g.
In my case, there is no clear winner. The solution might be to keep both keyboards in a keyboard rotation or to use one at home and the other at work.
Within your question, you have found the answer. I am very proud of you young grasshopper. You are on the path to keyboard zen.
Your next task is to take the pebble from the bottom of the lake without getting your arm wet.
A really big shovel?
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In my case, there is no clear winner. The solution might be to keep both keyboards in a keyboard rotation or to use one at home and the other at work.
Within your question, you have found the answer. I am very proud of you young grasshopper. You are on the path to keyboard zen.
Your next task is to take the pebble from the bottom of the lake without getting your arm wet.
I have grasped the pebble from the bottom of the lake. My arm is dry. But the pebble has been crushed into sand.
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Obviously the solution is to buy more keyboards.
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Obviously the solution is to buy more keyboards.
Yes! There must be one or two out there somewhere that I have not yet bought. ;)
At least I have finally ruled out all the current generation of Cherry mx boards -- the last one in my collection left the house yesterday.
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I think the touch feeling is really different for everyone. So you need to find store to try it.
But I think 55g is better for more people.
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It seems that many Topre aficionados advocate 55g switches. In view of this, it is surprising that 55g Topres aren't more prevalent. In fact, the opposite is true. The 45g versions are found on the RF 87u EK edition, on many of the keys on the RF variables, and on the HHKB Pro 2, microTron, Leopold FC660C, Type Heaven, and Novatouch.
I feel like I ought to prefer 55g switches in order to be alpha, macho, and cool, and I do prefer them at times, but sometimes it seems I can type better when using 45g Topres. As some others have suggested, 55g switches might be fine for the short term, but for long typing sessions and/or when one is otherwise fatigued, 45g switches could be better.
The most direct comparison I can make is between the 45g and 55g versions of the RF 87ub with the same keycaps on each board. Under these conditions, presumably the only difference between the two boards with respect to typing sound and feel is the switch weight, and the difference seems fairly subtle. But here again, it is difficult to make long-term predictions based on short-term assessments.
In my case, I like to rotate among my favorite keyboards anyway. I think I might start with a RF 87ub 55g in the single workstation in my home office, put the other RF 87ub 55 in one of my two workstations at work, and place the RF 87ub 45g "EK Edition" in the other workstation at work. At work, I need to move from one workstation to the other at various times during the day, and this will give me many opportunities for making continual comparisons without needing to plug/unplug keyboards.
Currently, the favorites in my rotation include the RF 87ub 55g, RF87ub 45g, HHKB Pro 2, and IBM Model F XT. Ah, the luxury of first-world problems! I do appreciate it!
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I love my 45g.
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Hypersphere,
I feel that you cannot lose either way, as both boards felt amazing to me. I tried both the 45g and 55g uniform boards at EK, and ended up buying the 55g; I do not regret this purchase. That said, I do not feel that either board offered a significant advantage over the other.
During testing at EK, I did several back-to-back typeracer runs with both boards. My gross speed was slightly better with the 45g, but at the cost of a slightly higher error rate. My accuracy was noticeably better with the 55g, at the cost of slightly slower speed.
Comfort was initially a little better with the 45g initially. As I started to warm up, the comfort advantage of the 45g disappeared and the 55g felt more satisfying (the "Topre Experience" you referred to earlier). Ultimately this feeling of satisfying keyswitch feeling is what motivated my purchase of the 55g model.
At no time have I felt excessive fatigue from using the 55g board. I usually type 4+ hours per day, but take frequent breaks from the keyboard to attend meetings, MBWA or to perform other work tasks. I might feel differently if I spent 7+ hours per day cutting code or typing text with few breaks. In that case, the 45g might be a better choice.
Ultimately, you might want to consider keeping one of each weighting (45g and 55g). Why not both?
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I've only tried 45g Topres but here are my 2-cents on switch weights:
Lighter switches are more comfortable in the long run and I generally type much faster on lighter switches even though I always think I like heavier switches.
For example on Typeracer I type at 100wpm on 45g Topre; 90wpm on stock MX Clears; 90% accuracy with Topres and 100% accuracy on MX Clears.
I always feel like I prefer a heavier switch because of the added accuracy and because I am a heavy typist but after about the third hour straight of typing on MX Clears, my hands get fatigued even without bottoming out (my hand strength is above average as an ex-gymnast and it takes a TON of pressure to tire my hands out). On the other hand, I have no problems typing for hours on end on the 45g Topres.
Heavier switches allow me to be more deliberate with my typing (or they force me to be more deliberate with my keystrokes) while the lighter Topre allows me to type effortlessly (or maybe carelessly; but nonetheless without fatigue).
55g Topres aren't nearly as heavy as stock MX Clears but I'd expect a similar comparison between the two (a tradeoff: speed and comfort vs. accuracy and fatigue in the long run)
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i'm kind of in the same boat....bought a FC660C last week and instantly fell in love with topre. i have used the board all weekend and yesterday at work, now i have left the board at home and typing on a MX black filco and i feel filthy :D
i am currently looking at a 55g uniform realforce, but i fear that it will be too stiff for me (the leopold is just right, or so it feels to me). the thing is that the only other topre board i can find is the novatouch, can't even find a uniform 45g.
@Hypersphere - where do you even find a 45g uniform topre? EK doesn't even have stock atm.
so if i want to get a TKL form factor with 45g uniform in EU, i have to get a novatouch, huh?
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i'm kind of in the same boat....bought a FC660C last week and instantly fell in love with topre. i have used the board all weekend and yesterday at work, now i have left the board at home and typing on a MX black filco and i feel filthy :D
i am currently looking at a 55g uniform realforce, but i fear that it will be too stiff for me (the leopold is just right, or so it feels to me). the thing is that the only other topre board i can find is the novatouch, can't even find a uniform 45g.
@Hypersphere - where do you even find a 45g uniform topre? EK doesn't even have stock atm.
so if i want to get a TKL form factor with 45g uniform in EU, i have to get a novatouch, huh?
You could buy my Type Heaven for 120 shipped if you are in the US! :-P
NVM, I see you are from Slovakia.
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i'm kind of in the same boat....bought a FC660C last week and instantly fell in love with topre. i have used the board all weekend and yesterday at work, now i have left the board at home and typing on a MX black filco and i feel filthy :D
i am currently looking at a 55g uniform realforce, but i fear that it will be too stiff for me (the leopold is just right, or so it feels to me). the thing is that the only other topre board i can find is the novatouch, can't even find a uniform 45g.
@Hypersphere - where do you even find a 45g uniform topre? EK doesn't even have stock atm.
so if i want to get a TKL form factor with 45g uniform in EU, i have to get a novatouch, huh?
I have a Novatouch. It feels very different from my other Topre boards and much lighter. I like it better than any Cherry mx board I have ever used (blues, browns, clears, vintage blacks, reds, greens), but not nearly as well as my HHKB Pro 2 or either of my RF 87ub boards.
EK is expecting their uniform 45g EK Edition keyboards to be back in stock in December. The price they list is 199 USD, which is quite reasonable for such an excellent Topre board.
I agree with what some others are saying about 45g vs 55g. It seems quite plausible that 45g would be better for long sessions and speed, whereas 55g could be better for shorter sessions and accuracy.
BTW, I am typing this on my HHKB Pro 2, which I like very much, but if I could change it, I would like Type-S switches, possibly at a heavier weight, such as 50 or 55g. The HHKB is more fun than the RF, but the RF seems more refined and quiet, even though the RF does not have silenced switches. To use a car analogy, the HHKB is like a small sports car, whereas the RF is like a luxury sedan.