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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: user91 on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:03:59

Title: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: user91 on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:03:59: I'm thinking about trying MX Cherry Clear switches, as my favorite are Browns. I don't know what keyboard to go with, however. The WASD v2? I'm a huge fan of Filcos, greatly preferring them to any other I've tried. How's the build quality on WASD boards?
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:14:00: The wasd board with clears has been known to have a good amount of ping.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: user91 on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:38:57: Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:14:00
The wasd board with clears has been known to have a good amount of ping.

Do o-ring modifications help with that?
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:42:41: Quote from: user91 on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:38:57
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:14:00
The wasd board with clears has been known to have a good amount of ping.

Do o-ring modifications help with that?
Not sure.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:44:05: this ping thing... it's never gonna let up.. if ya'll old guys keep the myth alive.. (http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:03:19: The CODE keyboard (also from WASD) is a very popular option.

http://codekeyboards.com/

Ping included at no extra charge!

Also consider Ducky with clear, although they seem less common.

Also Leopold FC660M.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: user91 on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:09:13: I heard good things about Ducky and Leopold, certainly. Something about them comparing favorably to Filco, though I've not heard anyone claim they exceed Filco in quality.

I can't see using a backlit keyboard. I'm never at my desk without light, I touch type already, and I really cant stand how the light bleeds around the edges of the keycaps. If they fixed that latter problem I guess it'd be neat just from an aesthetic standpoint, but not a practical one for me.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:16:04: Quote from: user91 on Thu, 06 November 2014, 23:09:13
I heard good things about Ducky and Leopold, certainly. Something about them comparing favorably to Filco, though I've not heard anyone claim they exceed Filco in quality.

I can't see using a backlit keyboard. I'm never at my desk without light, I touch type already, and I really cant stand how the light bleeds around the edges of the keycaps. If they fixed that latter problem I guess it'd be neat just from an aesthetic standpoint, but not a practical one for me.

Not all Duckys have backlighting :p
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: tribade on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:20:39: Quote from: user91 on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:03:59
I'm thinking about trying MX Cherry Clear switches, as my favorite are Browns. I don't know what keyboard to go with, however. The WASD v2? I'm a huge fan of Filcos, greatly preferring them to any other I've tried. How's the build quality on WASD boards?

I've read a lot of good things about the KUL boards sold at elitekeyboards: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al

That and the WASD v2 or CODE are probably pretty good choices.

I've heard that Filco are arguably the best manufactured board so I don't know whether you'll be able to find one that's as well made but these ones aren't slouches either and you shouldn't have any issues with them I think. I don't know whether Ducky is making boards with clears these days, but they'll probably release one when they come out with the Shine 4. Leopold are a little harder to get in the states now I think since elitekeyboards isn't carrying them anymore. I think Feng sells them, though. I don't remember.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: user91 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:32:43: Thanks, I didn't know about KUL and will check them out too
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:38:25: If you plan on putting thick keycaps on, you may want to go with a board with Cherry stabilisers like Ducky, KUL, Leopold or Vortex since the wire can scrape the inside of the cap on thick stabilised keycaps.

For full size there's the WASD V2 and Code (Costar stabilisers), for TKL, KUL ES-87 (Cherry stabilisers). If you want to go smaller, there's the Vortex Poker II with Clears from Massdrop or the Leopold FC660C, both great boards.

I don't know of any current Ducky or Filco boards with Clears.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: tribade on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:38:57: Quote from: user91 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 01:32:43
Thanks, I didn't know about KUL and will check them out too

Yeah no problem. Here are a couple reviews from the review section here:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59116.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63305.0
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:24:41: Cherry G80-3000LQCEU-2

Some people hate on it, because it's a bit flimsy, *but* it's PCB mount (you can mod switches without soldering), features thick POM keycaps, can fit a Teensy inside, and the €60 price tag in Germany makes it a decent deal, even if you only harvest the keys.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: spiceBar on Fri, 07 November 2014, 10:06:50: The "ping" in keyboards with clears comes from the Cherry MX clear switches themselves.

I have a few individual Cherry MX switches of different colors, and the clear switch pings. The brown one pings a little bit, but it's barely audible. Reds and blacks ping a little bit more than browns.

The ping comes from the spring inside the switch. The spring is stronger than the one in browns and reds, and it resonates with a higher pitched sound. The spring in other switches also resonates, but for some reason it's less audible (a matter of resonance linked to the dimensions of the switch - who knows).

If you have a keyboard with Cherry MX switches, you can hear the pings. Put your very ear close to the keyboard and press/release a key quickly. You will hear the ping. You may be so used to it that it may take a while to discern it.

The spring in black switches also pings with a higher pitch than red or browns, but for some reason it doesn't ping as much as the one in clears.

Knowing that the ping comes from the spring inside the switch, the kind of keycaps you put on it may improve things, but maybe not much. I guess O-rings should reduce the ping somehow by reducing the bottoming-out shock wave.

Putting some sound-absorbing material inside the keyboard, and O-rings under the keycaps, is probably going to be the most effective solution, as usual.

I plan to do that when I get a keyboard with MX clears.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:16:38: That's weird. There was the whole SUMMER OF PING thing without MX Clear involved. I've had a SteelSeries 6Gv2 ping like crazy. It's far more likely that the WASDv2 case or switch mounting are prone to making ping more obvious, due to resonation.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: user91 on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:49:23: I'll see if I can find a video of the ping online. It can't be worse than the IBM buckling spring sound, though, which I actually enjoy
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:00:39: Take a look at the long WASDv2/Code thread. There are several recordings of extreme ping.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:13:57: Quote from: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 08:24:41
Cherry G80-3000LQCEU-2

Some people hate on it, because it's a bit flimsy, *but* it's PCB mount (you can mod switches without soldering), features thick POM keycaps, can fit a Teensy inside, and the €60 price tag in Germany makes it a decent deal, even if you only harvest the keys.

The ones I got came with thin PBT caps, do the black ones really have thick POM? They're not just a bit flimsy, they're downright floppy. With some more internal support for the PCB they're okay, but still only 2KRO.

The GMK PCB's I just got from Ivan's GB with Black switches on are MUCH better quality than the PCB's in those 3000LQCEU's. Much stiffer, too.

Ping comes from the springs as spiceBar says. Best solution is to lube the springs. No more ping. Plates tend to be more resonant and emphasise the higher frequencies so you hear it more than PCB mount, but PCB mount switches do also ping unless lubed.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:40:21: Yes, they do; only winkeys are thin AFAIK. I want to buy one for keycaps and perhaps switches some day, and do some mods to it.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:47:57: Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 06 November 2014, 22:44:05
this ping thing... it's never gonna let up.. if ya'll old guys keep the myth alive..
Show Image
(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/embarrassed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862502)

the ping is real friend

my filco is wound so tight there is ping for days if i take my finger off the depressed spring to quick. people think a clock tower is going off when they walk by my house.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: divito on Fri, 07 November 2014, 15:27:46: PingGate is so overblown. My KeyCool with Clears kind of pings (if you can call it that), yet so do my Green keyboards, so not sure what the fuss is about. Sounds like a keyboard to me.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 07 November 2014, 16:04:41: Quote from: davkol on Fri, 07 November 2014, 12:40:21
Yes, they do; only winkeys are thin AFAIK. I want to buy one for keycaps and perhaps switches some day, and do some mods to it.

Awesome! I may just have to pick up one of the black ones when I need some more switches so I can also get the caps. POM caps are too rare, IMHO. Would love for someone to run a GB for a nice POM set. The only ones I have been able to get hold of so far are the medium thickness blanks from Banggood and used Cherry WoB from SP/PMK. Thinking of trying a Taobao proxy for some white jellies, but I'd really rather get some more that have legends.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: limitz on Sat, 08 November 2014, 11:15:27: I have 3, Poker 2 in Clear with a Tex case.

Kul 87

CODE

Of the 3. The CODE gets the most use. It's my work keyboard. People have complained about ping, but I really don't hear it.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: dante on Sat, 08 November 2014, 11:22:51: They will be tough to find now but Keycool did several runs of MX Clear boards. One in 2012 and one in 2013 (Year of the Snake). They came in 84, 87, and 108 formats - POM or PBT keycaps. I believe all of these had Costar wire stabilizers.

The older models may have unique spacebar stem spacing however the stock keycaps should be good enough - if not - the Leopold PBT on Ebay may be compatible.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: 00zeRO on Sat, 08 November 2014, 12:38:42: KUL ES-87 is the best Clear switch keyboard hands down for those who don't require backlighting. The WASD Code is also a great buy for a backlit keyboard.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: Puddsy on Sat, 08 November 2014, 13:03:35: Quote from: 00zeRO on Sat, 08 November 2014, 12:38:42
KUL ES-87 is the best Clear switch keyboard hands down for those who don't require backlighting. The WASD Code is also a great buy for a backlit keyboard.

ayussss
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 08 November 2014, 13:35:24: Quote from: dante on Sat, 08 November 2014, 11:22:51
They will be tough to find now but Keycool did several runs of MX Clear boards. One in 2012 and one in 2013 (Year of the Snake). They came in 84, 87, and 108 formats - POM or PBT keycaps. I believe all of these had Costar wire stabilizers.

The older models may have unique spacebar stem spacing however the stock keycaps should be good enough - if not - the Leopold PBT on Ebay may be compatible.
The stabilizers are costar like but smaller inserts. I have the 84 key clear version.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 08 November 2014, 13:45:40: I have owned a Filco MJ2 TKL Ninja with mx blues. It had some ping, but it didn't bother me.

I have also owned a Kul ES-87 with mx clears and another with reds. I found the clears too heavy for my liking, but I like to bottom out on every keystroke. Some people like clears for the very reason that the increasing force after the actuation point makes it quite difficult to bottom out. In any event, of all the Cherry mx switches I have tried, I liked reds the best.

The Kul struck me as a high-quality board, and I liked the numerous DIP switch options. However, it has Cherry stabilizers, which are nice for switching keycaps, but they feel mushy to me. In contrast, the Filco has Costar-type stabilizers, which feel better to me than Cherry stabilizers. I also had a CM QFR Stealth with mx greens and Costar-type stabilizers, which again felt better than Cherry stabilizers.

I have never tried a WASD or WASD CODE keyboard, but they are apparently made by Costar in Taiwan, and have Costar-type stabilizers. I would expect the quality to be good. WASD has the advantage that you can buy a "barebones" model with no keycaps. This is great, because the stock thin ABS caps are begging to be replaced anyway.

In my own case, I have tried virtually all of the Cherry mx switch types, and I have concluded that I do not really like any of them. My current favorites are IBM Model F capacitive buckling springs and Topre 45g and 55g -- to me, these switches provide an excellent tactile typing experience that is far better than any Cherry mx switch.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: 00zeRO on Sat, 08 November 2014, 14:37:38: A word of warning regarding the Code backlighting, the White LED's are not consistent in color. Some are more yellow and others are more white in color.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: Liar on Sun, 09 November 2014, 02:15:59: There is a Varmilo available on MassDrop with your choice of switches (including rarer types like White and Grey) and PBT Keycaps, and optional backlighting all for around $150 (assuming CONUS).

If you can stand the Comic Sans on the spacebar (and don't mind waiting until it ships on 12/26/14), then it seems like a pretty economical choice.

I ordered one with Clears myself, and Mint keycaps.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/varmilo-mechanical-keyboard (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/varmilo-mechanical-keyboard)
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: daerid on Sun, 09 November 2014, 02:40:59: That drop is sooooo tempting... but I'm in need of another board NAO
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: divito on Sun, 09 November 2014, 02:44:24: Quote from: Liar on Sun, 09 November 2014, 02:15:59
There is a Varmilo available on MassDrop with your choice of switches (including rarer types like White and Grey) and PBT Keycaps, and optional backlighting all for around $150 (assuming CONUS).

If you can stand the Comic Sans on the spacebar (and don't mind waiting until it ships on 12/26/14), then it seems like a pretty economical choice.

I ordered one with Clears myself, and Mint keycaps.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/varmilo-mechanical-keyboard (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/varmilo-mechanical-keyboard)

I got in on this as well. I was debating getting a White switch board, but figured I could find White easier than Grey down the road so went for an all Grey-tactile board. Went with the white etched keys, though not sure what I'll put on it when I get it.
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: Liar on Sun, 09 November 2014, 08:08:12: Quote from: divito on Sun, 09 November 2014, 02:44:24
I got in on this as well. I was debating getting a White switch board, but figured I could find White easier than Grey down the road so went for an all Grey-tactile board. Went with the white etched keys, though not sure what I'll put on it when I get it.

I was tempted to get the Tactile Grey myself, but the amount of actuation force worried me. How do you feel about possible finger fatigue?
Title: Re: Which MX Cherry Clear board?
Post by: divito on Sun, 09 November 2014, 09:20:34: Quote from: Liar on Sun, 09 November 2014, 08:08:12
I was tempted to get the Tactile Grey myself, but the amount of actuation force worried me. How do you feel about possible finger fatigue?

Not sure to be honest. Blacks are the only switch that ever felt tiresome to type on when I tried them a long time ago; not sure why though, as I have no problem with Greens or stock Clears.

Outside of that, I plan to own at least one keyboard with each type of switch, so it'll be part of my collection whether they're tiresome or not.