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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: wilsonnzxc on Fri, 07 November 2014, 11:51:19
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After years of service, my Lycosa finally had it. Over the past 5-6 years of its life, it had it's fair share of wear and tear, and also oily stains and a cup of water here and there. I loved it alot, and felt that I was lucky because of all the recent rants about Razer's shoddy build quality. But still I love it nonetheless.
So with it now pretty much back in it's box, I think it's time for me to move into the world of mechanical keyboards. I've done quite abit of research, and I decided on the Corsair Vengeance K70 in the end, because I think it suits me well.
So here's the question. The keyboard comes with either Cherry MX Reds, Blues or Browns. I'm a gamer, somewhere between moderate and hardcore. I play MOBA games, mainly DotA 2 and League. I also frequent FPS games, mainly CS:GO. And also some games that require spamming of a particular key. So, what switch would suit to my needs best? Also, Corsair released the RGB version of the K70. Should I get that? Personally I don't find a need for the USB port and the RGB LED. Is the new switch more durable than that of the normal switch? Is the price justifiable in terms of quality? I really would like to know.
I'm going to purchase the keyboard next week, so I do hope to hear from the forum soon. Thanks!
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I would wait on the RGB. Reviews says the software is flaky.
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Also, if you ever want to replace the keycaps, don't get a the K70. They have non-standard sized keys on the bottom row, so aftermarket keycap sets don't fit.
Better to look at Ducky, Filco or KUL for top quality full size and TKL boards. Leopold also make some great boards, but many of them have unusual stabiliser spacing on the spacebar, so some spacebars don't fit.
In terms of value for money, CoolerMaster's CMStorm QuickFire range (XT, Rapid and Rapid-i) is really good. All the boards I mentioned have standard layouts, so you have a very large range of keycap sets that fit.
Reds or Browns are better for gaming and key spamming. Blues have hysteresis (actuation point is different to release point, so you can't "hover" them above or below the actuation point like you can with Reds and to a lesser extent with Browns). So I'd say Reds > Browns > Blues. If you want to also do a lot of typing, I'd go with Browns, but they're a bit of a compromise, so not quite as easy to spam as Reds, but also many find they're not quite as satisfying to type on as Blues.
I like Browns and Clears, but I do a lot more typing than gaming and in the end it's largely down to personal preference.
To throw yet another spanner in the works, I find Clears are great for both typing and gaming. They have a larger tactile bump than Browns and this can act as a "backstop" and reference point when releasing the switches so you can keep it right near the actuation point easily. Unfortunately there aren't all that many boards available with Clears, but the KUL ES-87 is one.
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I have a friend that swears by browns but I can barely feel any bump. Personally I would go with blues because I love tactility and as much noise as possible. Music to my ears. I can't comment on reds as I have never tried them, but I imagine they are much lighter to type on and quite pleasant. Can't really comment on the k70 though as I have never tried it. In regards to spamming keys though I think reds would be the way for you to go. Its all opinion though. If you have a store that carries keyboards near buy, like best buy I would go in and try out a Black Widow. It would give you an Idea of how blues feel.
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Filco TKL. It's a great starter board and one that you will keep back to again and again, I have two Filcos, full and TKL, the former with Browns and the latter with Blues. My daily driver these days is the HHKB Pro 2 and I've set up my poker II to mimic the HHKB, in terms of layout. The Filcos however are great and I love pulling them out every now and again for a bash.
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Keep in mind Reds aren't strictly *bad* for typing. People around seem to classify them as such but there are few things as satisfying as bottoming out Red switches when typing. I love them as my general-purpose board.
Dat clack :-X
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For a person having owned all the 3 switches you mentioned. I would recommend the Browns or Reds for your needs. I have tried playing FPS on the Blues and somehow the click just annoys me and overwhelms my gameplay and I feel that it sets me behind. If I were you I would get the reds as I like typing and gaming on the reds all round although most of the other people have different preferences and might find the reds hard to type on. If you are only going to get one mechanical keyboard I would suggest the Browns as they are considered the "all-round" keyboard as it has the lightness of the reds and a subtle bit of the tactile bump of the blue which I feel that is just enough that it does not interrupt my gameplay.
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Keep in mind Reds aren't strictly *bad* for typing. People around seem to classify them as such but there are few things as satisfying as bottoming out Red switches when typing. I love them as my general-purpose board.
Dat clack :-X
You actually have the same thought as me. To me reds are my favorite switch, I like them both for typing and for gaming. Ahhh the sweet sound of PBT keycaps hitting the metal plate of my Filco
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I just bought my first michanical keyboard a few weeks ago, where I went with reds and mostly use it for programming.
It is a joy to type on and is not straining on my fingers, so I can keep using it for hours. I felt that the browns became to "scratchy" or "grainy", while the high pitch noise of the blues where too irritaiting.
I actually do not make a lot og typos compared to using an membrane keyboard, so I am a satisfied user of reds just like pr0ximity and Adriel.
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After years of service, my Lycosa finally had it. Over the past 5-6 years of its life, it had it's fair share of wear and tear, and also oily stains and a cup of water here and there. I loved it alot, and felt that I was lucky because of all the recent rants about Razer's shoddy build quality. But still I love it nonetheless.
So with it now pretty much back in it's box, I think it's time for me to move into the world of mechanical keyboards. I've done quite abit of research, and I decided on the Corsair Vengeance K70 in the end, because I think it suits me well.
So here's the question. The keyboard comes with either Cherry MX Reds, Blues or Browns. I'm a gamer, somewhere between moderate and hardcore. I play MOBA games, mainly DotA 2 and League. I also frequent FPS games, mainly CS:GO. And also some games that require spamming of a particular key. So, what switch would suit to my needs best? Also, Corsair released the RGB version of the K70. Should I get that? Personally I don't find a need for the USB port and the RGB LED. Is the new switch more durable than that of the normal switch? Is the price justifiable in terms of quality? I really would like to know.
I'm going to purchase the keyboard next week, so I do hope to hear from the forum soon. Thanks!
The Lycosa is the keyboard I last used before getting into the mechanical world!
Anyways, switch choice will ultimately come down to preference. Type of game, as much as people like to give general guidelines, don't really affect much in the way of your choice. The only variable is what feels good to you.
I started my mechanical foray with a Das Ultimate with Blue switches; mainly due to loving the sound on streams and my old affinity for Buckling Spring keyboards and their tactile and audible nature. I primarily play FPS games, and never had any issue double-tapping nor had I any other hindrance with the switch properties. To that point, my main switches are Greens and Clears now, and again, playing CS:GO, or any other game, it's a non-issue and doesn't impact my performance.
That all being said, it's best if you can try out a keyboard out at a local retailer, and then decide on a switch. Outside of that, most places are good about a return policy, so utilize their time window to try something out, and exchange it if need be.
As for your choice of K70, I personally veer from "gamer" keyboard options, as most around these forums do as well (though most here dislike Das, and that's a route I started with, so meh).
However, your choice ultimately comes down to asking yourself some questions:
1. Do you need a full-size keyboard? (ie Do you use the Num Pad sometimes, always, never?)
2. Do you want backlighting, and is it a deal breaker?
3. Do you need separate macro keys, or are you okay with re-binding keys/function keys for game purposes?
Answering these questions can help us suggest specific keyboard options, rather than the typical <insert brand here> or <anecdotal response here>.
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In my limited experience I have noticed that used browns are much nicer then new browns, It seems that the switch has a smoother feel after a fair bit of use and the tactile bump is more evident with time. The good side of it is that you can typical find some nice boards in the classifieds for a decent price. I started out with a ducky shine 3 with browns and then picked up a filco majestouch tkl with used browns and haven't looked back at the ducky yet. This is just my opinion with limited experience. Why not just buy one of each, try it out for a while and then sell it or trade it till you find what you like?
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I just bought my first michanical keyboard a few weeks ago, where I went with reds and mostly use it for programming.
It is a joy to type on and is not straining on my fingers, so I can keep using it for hours. I felt that the browns became to "scratchy" or "grainy", while the high pitch noise of the blues where too irritaiting.
I actually do not make a lot og typos compared to using an membrane keyboard, so I am a satisfied user of reds just like pr0ximity and Adriel.
Sorry, quoted for posterity :p ;)
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I just bought my first michanical keyboard a few weeks ago, where I went with reds and mostly use it for programming.
It is a joy to type on and is not straining on my fingers, so I can keep using it for hours. I felt that the browns became to "scratchy" or "grainy", while the high pitch noise of the blues where too irritaiting.
I actually do not make a lot og typos compared to using an membrane keyboard, so I am a satisfied user of reds just like pr0ximity and Adriel.
Sorry, quoted for posterity :p ;)
Hehe, I was actually writing that on my phone :p
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Hello! Firstly, thank you all for the helpful comments guys!
To me, I guess the aesthetics does matter to me, and sometimes I need the backlighting on my keyboard to find some keys, and also it looks good too. I also would like to have like gimmicks here and there, like how Corsair has the dedicated media keys and the awesome volume scroll wheel, and also the big volume knob on the Daskeyboard, that's really dope. I guess these are the main ones that I think makes or breaks a keyboard for me. Other things such as an extra USB, audio jacks passthroughs, and macro keys don't really matter at all. And I would really prefer it to be a full sized keyboard, as I find myself using the number pad a lot too.
I do know that companies such as Filco, Daskeyboard, and especially Ducky, make great quality keyboards, but as I live in Singapore, it is not often available in the market here. They are rare as hell. Also I feel that... well they look plain to me (apart from the DasKeyboard, it looks sick. Just wish it had backlighting :c ).
And also, yes. I am only getting one mechanical keyboard, as I'm not going to be able to spend alot of time gaming after a few more years. So I don't mind spending the extra money for a keyboard that is aesthetically pleasing, and durable. (I tried the reds today as well. Feels really great too! It's even more difficult to find the perfect keyswitch now! )
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Also, if you ever want to replace the keycaps, don't get a the K70. They have non-standard sized keys on the bottom row, so aftermarket keycap sets don't fit.
Is it just the bottom row that have a non-standard size? Are all of the others easily swappable?
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Also, if you ever want to replace the keycaps, don't get a the K70. They have non-standard sized keys on the bottom row, so aftermarket keycap sets don't fit.
Is it just the bottom row that have a non-standard size? Are all of the others easily swappable?
Yes, but it's unlikely you'd want to leave the bottom row original and change the rest. Apart from the appearance being different the stock caps are OEM profile and won't sit well with any of the other profiles generally used for custom sets.
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Keep in mind Reds aren't strictly *bad* for typing. People around seem to classify them as such but there are few things as satisfying as bottoming out Red switches when typing. I love them as my general-purpose board.
Dat clack :-X
I like mine with blue orings...dat silence ;)
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Also, if you ever want to replace the keycaps, don't get a the K70. They have non-standard sized keys on the bottom row, so aftermarket keycap sets don't fit.
Is it just the bottom row that have a non-standard size? Are all of the others easily swappable?
Yes, but it's unlikely you'd want to leave the bottom row original and change the rest. Apart from the appearance being different the stock caps are OEM profile and won't sit well with any of the other profiles generally used for custom sets.
Is there a place to buy magical bottom row replacement keys, or am I stuck with the stock ones forever?
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It really depends on what you want on the board. Some group buys will be able to accommodate the layout at additional cost (e.g. Toxic or others from SP) but other sets won't, e.g. most of the GMK sets (as far as I'm aware there's no such thing as a GMK space bar that fits a K70). It's cheaper and easier to go with a standard layout board.
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It really depends on what you want on the board. Some group buys will be able to accommodate the layout at additional cost (e.g. Toxic or others from SP) but other sets won't, e.g. most of the GMK sets (as far as I'm aware there's no such thing as a GMK space bar that fits a K70). It's cheaper and easier to go with a standard layout board.
SP does not make 6.5x spacebars (only 6.25x, which they often refer to as 6.2x and 7x, although you can get a few other sizes in SA profile). None of the major keycap makers do. So there are no good quality sets that fit.
I highly recommend rather getting a board with standard layout like the CMStorm QuickFire Rapid-i, Ducky Shine or Zero, WASD Code, Filco, etc.
Ducky, Filco and CMStorm should all be available in Singapore. For instance these guys sell Ducky: https://www.facebook.com/xtremesolutionzone
And here is the Rapid-i: http://banleong.com/sg/cm-storm-quick-fire-rapid-i-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-activlite-technology-led-keys#.VGEDlhbwCt8
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If you don't ever plan on changing the caps, get the K70, it's a good board. Filco's are great obviously but quite more expensive than the K70. RGB is useless and I'd just stay away from it.
You can also look into a KUL as suggested previously. This is what I would probably get personally.
Switch choice is ALL personal preference. Try them out if you can first. Though I would stay away from blues as they are hard to double tap. Don't know why that one guy specifically suggested blues to you - they are terrible to game on if you're going for accuracy. Browns and Reds for you. I'm a Brown kinda guy myself, because I do a lot of typing as well.
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I do know that companies such as Filco, Daskeyboard, and especially Ducky, make great quality keyboards, but as I live in Singapore, it is not often available in the market here. They are rare as hell.
That's not true, I'm also Singaporean and there are a few shops here that sell. So far Ducky, Filco, KBC, CM Storm, KUL, Leopold and stuff and at a reasonable price. What you might have trouble finding are the less common switches like Clears and Blacks. If you want gimmicks and features while having aesthetics. I would recommend the Ducky Shine 3 or the Shine 4. They are backlit, comes with media keys and dipswitches. I would not recommend DAS keyboard as it is retailing at SGD$260 from the keyboard retailers. So the shine 3 seems like the best choice for you if not you can't go wrong with Corsair if you are not planning to change keycaps and again keycaps are also very expensive in Singapore.
You can always use the last resort and order online if you can't find your desired keyboard in Singapore.
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I do know that companies such as Filco, Daskeyboard, and especially Ducky, make great quality keyboards, but as I live in Singapore, it is not often available in the market here. They are rare as hell.
That's not true, I'm also Singaporean and there are a few shops here that sell. So far Ducky, Filco, KBC, CM Storm, KUL, Leopold and stuff and at a reasonable price. What you might have trouble finding are the less common switches like Clears and Blacks. If you want gimmicks and features while having aesthetics. I would recommend the Ducky Shine 3 or the Shine 4. They are backlit, comes with media keys and dipswitches. I would not recommend DAS keyboard as it is retailing at SGD$260 from the keyboard retailers. So the shine 3 seems like the best choice for you if not you can't go wrong with Corsair if you are not planning to change keycaps and again keycaps are also very expensive in Singapore.
You can always use the last resort and order online if you can't find your desired keyboard in Singapore.
Well I guess I have made a decision. I'm gonna go for Corsair. All that's left is for me to test out the different keyswitches again. Thanks guys! Really appreciate it :)
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Hey wilsonnzxc, how did you go with the corsair? What switches did you end up getting, and have you managed to change keycaps successfully?
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I'd like to mention the Deck Hassium. I'm really liking mine. I know most people here really hate the font but I don't mind it at all. I play Dota 2 primarily with a bit of CS:GO and SC2 here and there. Loving the MX Browns. Previously was using MX Blacks on a SteelSeries 7G with tons of busted keycaps. The double shot PBT on the Deck Hassium feels really nice. Some of the back-lighting is a bit uneven but rarely look at my keyboard when using it and use the lighting mode where the keys that I recently pressed light up and fade out. I've only had this keyboard for a week so maybe I'll feel different a year from now if quality issues pop up but so far I really couldn't be happier.
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I do know that companies such as Filco, Daskeyboard, and especially Ducky, make great quality keyboards, but as I live in Singapore, it is not often available in the market here. They are rare as hell.
That's not true, I'm also Singaporean and there are a few shops here that sell. So far Ducky, Filco, KBC, CM Storm, KUL, Leopold and stuff and at a reasonable price. What you might have trouble finding are the less common switches like Clears and Blacks. If you want gimmicks and features while having aesthetics. I would recommend the Ducky Shine 3 or the Shine 4. They are backlit, comes with media keys and dipswitches. I would not recommend DAS keyboard as it is retailing at SGD$260 from the keyboard retailers. So the shine 3 seems like the best choice for you if not you can't go wrong with Corsair if you are not planning to change keycaps and again keycaps are also very expensive in Singapore.
You can always use the last resort and order online if you can't find your desired keyboard in Singapore.
Well I guess I have made a decision. I'm gonna go for Corsair. All that's left is for me to test out the different keyswitches again. Thanks guys! Really appreciate it :)
If you live in Singapore, try buying online at the local forums. The prices are much lower than the retailer. You're taking a risk of course, but I don't see the reason to pay a premium for a one year warranty that will very rarely be used.
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Filco or KUL would've been my choice.
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Sorry, quoted for posterity :p ;)
LMAO