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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: LuckerCat on Sun, 09 November 2014, 17:01:10
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I'm a guy who knows a lot about a lot of things technology-related, but I've never really learned a lot about keyboards. I generally just look up reviews from smart people (like you guys), but the keyboard, and never look back. Now that my current quickfire stealth TKL is getting old, I want to make an informed buying decision.
I use my keyboard primarily for typing but also for some gaming on the side. I absolutely need tenkeyless (I have never and will never use a numberpad and I prefer the extra space on my desk). I want a keyboard with the "ultimate" typing experience and my budget is $250. Would you recommend the Novatouch TKL?
I don't know the difference between Topre and Cherry MX, but so far the reviews I have read swear by Topre being a better typing experience. Also, I read in a review on Amazon that if you do purchase the Novatouch TKL you will want to replace the default keycaps. What kind of keycaps should I replace them with? Just to clarify, I am not just trying to use this forum as a crutch rather than reading reviews. The problem with the majority of reviews is that they don't actually compare the product to a competitor - they just review the product at hand. While I'm sure the Novatouch TKL is a fine keyboard, I'm most interested in whether or not it is the best option in my price range.
I'm a complete newb when it comes to keyboards and I appreciate any help in advance!
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There are at least 4–5 existing threads of novatouch discussion and reviews. If you do a search (either through geekhack’s search feature, or e.g. by doing a google search for «novatouch site:geekhack.org») I’m sure you can find some helpful advice/info.
Personally, my recommendation is: you need to try a keyboard to see if you like it. Keyboard preferences are not at all consistent from one person to another.
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Here are some relevant threads:
1) 56756 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56756) “CM Storm Novatouch”
2) 56838 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56838) “CM Storm Novatouch Pre-Launch Showcase & First Impressions & Typing test”
3) 59798 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59798) “Linustechtips reviews the Novatouch”
4) 61075 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61075) “CMStorm Novatouch Unbox and Review”
5) 62407 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62407) “CM Novatouch Review”
6) 63073 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63073) “mkawa's long-term review of the CM Storm Novatouch TKL”
7) 63902 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63902) “Cooler Master Novatouch vs Realforce 87U and some other things.”
8] 64602 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64602) “CM Storm Novatouch Tour - Sign Up Now!”
9) 64855 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64855) “Yet another CM Novatouch TKL Review”
By the way, welcome to Geekhack! :)
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
Overpriced even for $169 on amazon? (http://www.amazon.com/Storm-NovaTouch-TKL-Exclusive-Capacitive/dp/B00MY3S288/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415577532&sr=8-1&keywords=novatouch+tkl)
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Overpriced even for $169 on amazon? (http://www.amazon.com/Storm-NovaTouch-TKL-Exclusive-Capacitive/dp/B00MY3S288/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415577532&sr=8-1&keywords=novatouch+tkl)
It's not my review ;)
Quoting Matt3o:It's a $199 keyboard, with ABS keycaps and subpar topre implementation. For the same price you get a Realforce that is less pretty and the case is less sturdy, bust still has a better overall typing feel and PBT keycaps (!).
So yeah, 169$ is probably more appropriate.
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Coolermaster should try a "barebones" NovaTouch: No keycaps / accessories and shipped in a plain brown cardboard box for $149.99.
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Wow that's a good price on Amazon..
If you live in the US (lucky!) you should take advantage of the excellent return policy places like Amazon has.
I have both the Realforce and Novatouch. The Realforce is harder to customize because of the price/availability of topre keycaps, but they come with the best feeling keycaps I've tried..
It is also slightly quieter than the Novatouch. The Novatouch really changes a lot depending on the keycaps you put on it.
I do think topre is better than MX for typing and totally fine for gaming. But what I found was that this is a very subjective hobby and often you find yourself not liking something a lot of people rave about on the forums.
My Realforce 87u 45g is used at work because I wouldn't want to add fancy keycaps and attract attention and because it is slightly quiter.
The Novatouch is used at home with engraved keycaps, which are almost blank. I plan to add some cheap novelty keycaps later.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Loner1337/DSC09528_zps6ad55406.jpg)
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No because linear is better :P
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
The problem with the Realforce is that you cannot get it with the keycaps of your choice. I'm not talking about aesthetics. It's not just about replacing the keycaps with prettier ones.
It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
There is an AZERTY model of the Realforce, the RF88, but it has ridiculous unreadable black on black keycaps. I know, I have one.
In this sense, there is no way the Realforce can be favorably compared to the Novatouch: the Realforce simply cannot do something that I need. The Novatouch can.
I have a set of AZERTY SA tall spherical doubleshot keycaps that are just waiting for my Novatouch to arrive.
Even if the Novatouch is not as good as the Realforce, if it's close enough, it will win. I may also be able to mod it to close the gap with the Realforce, who knows.
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
The problem with the Realforce is that you cannot get it with the keycaps of your choice. I'm not talking about aesthetics. It's not just about replacing the keycaps with prettier ones.
It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
There is an AZERTY model of the Realforce, the RF88, but it has ridiculous unreadable black on black keycaps. I know, I have one.
In this sense, there is no way the Realforce can be favorably compared to the Novatouch: the Realforce simply cannot do something that I need. The Novatouch can.
I have a set of AZERTY SA tall spherical doubleshot keycaps that are just waiting for my Novatouch to arrive.
Even if the Novatouch is not as good as the Realforce, if it's close enough, it will win. I may also be able to mod it to close the gap with the Realforce, who knows.
Did you receive your Novatouch, buddy?
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Read all the reviews, still asking this question myself everyday.
To buy or not to buy.
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It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
The majority of GH is american. Not everybody needs special layouts. A good point though I suppose.
Also you should really learn touch typing, I type on a keyboard with US ANSI layout and legends everyday although I use the german layout - I don't mind. I also script almost everyday and I know the symbols as well (a lot of them with Ctrl+Alt instead of AltGr). It's all about practice! :thumb:
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
The problem with the Realforce is that you cannot get it with the keycaps of your choice. I'm not talking about aesthetics. It's not just about replacing the keycaps with prettier ones.
It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
There is an AZERTY model of the Realforce, the RF88, but it has ridiculous unreadable black on black keycaps. I know, I have one.
In this sense, there is no way the Realforce can be favorably compared to the Novatouch: the Realforce simply cannot do something that I need. The Novatouch can.
I have a set of AZERTY SA tall spherical doubleshot keycaps that are just waiting for my Novatouch to arrive.
Even if the Novatouch is not as good as the Realforce, if it's close enough, it will win. I may also be able to mod it to close the gap with the Realforce, who knows.
Did you receive your Novatouch, buddy?
Not yet. It's taking its time.
Apparently it is on the edge of delivery, but given that it has taken the customs more than a week to clear the package, anything can happen.
It's been 3 weeks now and tomorrow is a holiday here.
My guess is that I'll receive it this week.
Anyway, thanks again! :)
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It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
The majority of GH is american. Not everybody needs special layouts. A good point though I suppose.
Also you should really learn touch typing, I type on a keyboard with US ANSI layout and legends everyday although I use the german layout - I don't mind. I also script almost everyday and I know the symbols as well (a lot of them with Ctrl+Alt instead of AltGr). It's all about practice! :thumb:
I can type without looking at the keyboard, but the truth is that I'm faster when I allow myself to look at it.
It's all about feeling comfortable on my keyboard, not about mastering the art of touch-typing.
I program in C, Objective-C and C#, and even bash, and I don't want to dedicate more of my brain and my energy to the keyboard when I'm working. Most of my time on the computer is spent thinking, not typing, and when I type the keyboard must not get in the way and distract me. I often look at the keyboard because it's easier for me this way. It's less disruptive than bringing up a mental image of the keyboard.
I adapt the keyboard to me, not the opposite.
I also prefer the ANSI layout, so I must be one of the very few people in the world using AZERTY on ANSI (normally, AZERTY exists only in ISO layout). You are probably one of the few people in the world using QWERTZ on ANSI with non-matching keycaps. :)
For me, being able to customize the keycaps is mandatory.
I love Cherry MX and Topre boards, and until now only my Cherry MX ones could get proper keycaps. The Novatouch is good news for my Topre addiction.
Well... I should probably wait until I receive the keyboard. The Realforce being my reference for Topre, the bar is set very high for the Novatouch.
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Read all the reviews, still asking this question myself everyday.
To buy or not to buy.
Yea it is really difficult to decide such things. Because I haven't tried topre before, I read all reviews, watched youtube videos, went down to a shop twice to try it for 10mins and was still undecided.
Ultimately it was curiosity that led to my purchase, and I was planning to sell it after a few months. Ended up liking topre slightly more than MX.
I suspect LuckerCat would need to take a similar gamble x_x
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I often look at the keyboard because it's easier for me this way. It's less disruptive than bringing up a mental image of the keyboard.
I do sometimes too. But even though I see different characters on the keycaps, I know which key to press. It's like seeing the right characters without them actually being there - sounds weird but that's how it is for me.
Well... I should probably wait until I receive the keyboard. The Realforce being my reference for Topre, the bar is set very high for the Novatouch.
You should write a review then when you receive it :thumb:
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
The problem with the Realforce is that you cannot get it with the keycaps of your choice. I'm not talking about aesthetics. It's not just about replacing the keycaps with prettier ones.
It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
There is an AZERTY model of the Realforce, the RF88, but it has ridiculous unreadable black on black keycaps. I know, I have one.
In this sense, there is no way the Realforce can be favorably compared to the Novatouch: the Realforce simply cannot do something that I need. The Novatouch can.
I have a set of AZERTY SA tall spherical doubleshot keycaps that are just waiting for my Novatouch to arrive.
Even if the Novatouch is not as good as the Realforce, if it's close enough, it will win. I may also be able to mod it to close the gap with the Realforce, who knows.
Did you receive your Novatouch, buddy?
I just got it.
My first impressions are:
- Classy box. I hope it doesn't cost as much to produce as the provided keycaps.
- Solid build.
- No quality issue as far as I can tell.
- The Topre thock is clearly there.
- It's a little bit noisy.
If I manage to silence it well enough, I can see it replacing my Realforce.
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The CM Novatouch provides a better typing experience than I have encountered with any Cherry mx keyboard, but not as good as those with non-hybrid Topre switches, such as the HHKB Pro 2, HHKB Pro 2 Type-S, Leopold FC660C, RF 87u 45g, or RF 87u 55g.
The main feature of the Novatouch is the ability to populate it with Cherry mx keycaps (although it will NOT work with Topre keycaps).
I am hoping that there will be a "Novatouch 2.0" that will address the issues and shortcomings of the first version.
Even so, I have sold all my Cherry mx boards and kept my Topre boards, including the Novatouch.
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my very first and very fresh novatouch TKL impressions:
1. i already own a FC660C
2. got this NT a couple of minutes ago, i'm at work right now, normally using a MX black filco
- feels very different to the leopold, lighter (considering that both should be 45g)
- all keys have a louder audible feedback (i.e rattling) than the leo (with default caps at least, will have to test at home tomorrow thick pbt caps
- will reserve my judgement after i've tested them both side by side, but so far, i think matt3o was spot-on in his review
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Has anyone tried to put o-rings on the stabs to reduce the clack?
I would assume that annoying clack is because the stems aren't actually attached to the stabilizers and they're constantly hitting them. Could be wrong though.
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dunno....the thing is that the rattling is louder also on the normal keys, not just the stabilized ones. i think it's a combination of the different stem and the keycap material...
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dunno....the thing is that the rattling is louder also on the normal keys, not just the stabilized ones. i think it's a combination of the different stem and the keycap material...
Do the stems not have good tolerances? They could be wobbly or something.
I doubt it could be the material when people are using PBT caps on them.
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i don't know really, just had it for like 2 hours, literally. only with default caps so far.
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
The problem with the Realforce is that you cannot get it with the keycaps of your choice. I'm not talking about aesthetics. It's not just about replacing the keycaps with prettier ones.
It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
There is an AZERTY model of the Realforce, the RF88, but it has ridiculous unreadable black on black keycaps. I know, I have one.
In this sense, there is no way the Realforce can be favorably compared to the Novatouch: the Realforce simply cannot do something that I need. The Novatouch can.
I have a set of AZERTY SA tall spherical doubleshot keycaps that are just waiting for my Novatouch to arrive.
Even if the Novatouch is not as good as the Realforce, if it's close enough, it will win. I may also be able to mod it to close the gap with the Realforce, who knows.
is it avaible in ISO version already ?
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CM Storm NovaTouch TKL Available in the EU (http://www.techpowerup.com/207126/cm-storm-novatouch-tkl-available-in-the-eu.html)
MSRP : 179€
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yes
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so....having used the novatouch for a couple of hours with the thick PBT keys on, i can safely say that i will be selling it in the classifieds very soon.
it's by no means a bad board, but if you already own a topre board, you're better off with it, than NT. i have a FC660C and it's way better to type on, i can't put my finger on why, but the tactility seems much better, the keys are snappier, and there's way less rattle on the longer keys (yes i know that topre boards only have stabilizers on the spacebar).
so i guess i will offer the same advice as matt3o: if you already have a topre board, don't bother. if you don't, you might as well get it.
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Because I don't like Cherry mx switches, but I have several sets of nice Cherry mx keycaps, I might keep my Novatouch as the only keyboard that I could use with my Cherry-compatible keycaps. But for the best Topre experience, I have my HHKB Pro 2 for a 60% and my RF 87ub 55g for a TKL.
However, the CM NT is now available for $168.99 on Amazon, and with Amazon Prime, I think that shipping is free. It might be worth considering at this price, especially if you do not already have a good Topre-switch board and if you don't particularly like Cherry mx switches.
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I would really recommend this review by Matt3o: http://deskthority.net/review-f45/my-take-at-novatouch-t8906.html
Tldr: it's decent, but overpriced and not worth it in comparison to the Realforce for example.
The problem with the Realforce is that you cannot get it with the keycaps of your choice. I'm not talking about aesthetics. It's not just about replacing the keycaps with prettier ones.
It's about getting keycaps for your language. I cannot get AZERTY keycaps for my RF87U, for example. My RF87U is covered with stickers. That's how I have converted it to AZERTY.
There is an AZERTY model of the Realforce, the RF88, but it has ridiculous unreadable black on black keycaps. I know, I have one.
In this sense, there is no way the Realforce can be favorably compared to the Novatouch: the Realforce simply cannot do something that I need. The Novatouch can.
I have a set of AZERTY SA tall spherical doubleshot keycaps that are just waiting for my Novatouch to arrive.
Even if the Novatouch is not as good as the Realforce, if it's close enough, it will win. I may also be able to mod it to close the gap with the Realforce, who knows.
is it avaible in ISO version already ?
I think they plan to sell it in ISO, but I'm not sure it's available at this time. If it's not already, it should be very soon. I have received a promo email for CM and they already have a long list of resellers in Europe.
I did not need to wait, because I use AZERTY on the ANSI layout. Yeah, I know, it's a bit weird, but I prefer the ANSI layout with its big Shifts, and with Cherry MX keycaps you can easily set up an ANSI board in AZERTY.
I have Filco tall spherical doubleshot keycaps on my Novatouch now. It really looks and sounds like a vintage keyboard! :)
Nice look, but it's way too noisy. I must silence it, and I'm not sure I'll be able to keep these keycaps on it, because they make much more noise than the standard ones.
It's obvious the rattle on the stabilized keys comes from the wire inside. This should be easy to silence with thick silicone grease.
The keyboard also obviously needs padding inside the case. But it will not be enough. It needs landing pads inside the Topre switches, which requires a complete disassembly of the keyboard. It should not be a problem, but I need a free evening to do it correctly.
I'm afraid that even with these mods it will not be as silent as my silenced Realforce and FC660C. However, It should be decent. We will see.
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Just an update guys.
Novatouch = Purchased!
Tested it out at the shop, they have a demo set there. Was immediately sold. It feels really good, I had only used MX switches before, the closest equivalent would be ergo clear I guess with an organic feel to it.
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I did not need to wait, because I use AZERTY on the ANSI layout. Yeah, I know, it's a bit weird, but I prefer the ANSI layout with its big Shifts, and with Cherry MX keycaps you can easily set up an ANSI board in AZERTY.
I'm curious about how you deal with the 2 missing keys :
[> <] and [* µ ] ? are you using a remmaping software ?
IS the key above Return bound to something ?
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It needs landing pads inside the Topre switches, which requires a complete disassembly of the keyboard. It should not be a problem, but I need a free evening to do it correctly.
Never seen landing pads get used on Topre switches, is that even possible in terms of spacing? Guess you'll find out.
I'm curious about how you deal with the 2 missing keys :
[> <] and [* µ ] ? are you using a remmaping software ?
IS the key above Return bound to something ?
The key above Enter is bound to [* µ].
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Never seen landing pads get used on Topre switches, is that even possible in terms of spacing? Guess you'll find out.
Yes, he developed the method: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0
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I just noticed that the NT is available at my local store since Tuesday.
Since I bought my first Cherry MX board I'd love to try a Topre one. But I can't decide which one: the RealForce 88UB 45g or the NT ...
So far Spicebar if you don't mod the NT, do you think the RF is above? As far as I remember you modded your RF so I don't know if you can tell really but I still ask the question.
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I just noticed that the NT is available at my local store since Tuesday.
We are talking about ldlc right ?
I'll wait until they have stock at the Lyon store , so I can try them out .
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Yes, he developed the method: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.0
Oh I thought he wanted to dampen the downstroke.
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I just noticed that the NT is available at my local store since Tuesday.
We are talking about ldlc right ?
I'll wait until they have stock at the Lyon store , so I can try them out .
Yeah you are right. Do you think they will put it in the shop? Before I bought my Cherry MX from them I was able to try the Red and Black. However even though they had Blues and Browns in stock they didn't have any to test in the shop.
Are you living in Lyon as well?
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I just noticed that the NT is available at my local store since Tuesday.
We are talking about ldlc right ?
I'll wait until they have stock at the Lyon store , so I can try them out .
Yeah you are right. Do you think they will put it in the shop? Before I bought my Cherry MX from them I was able to try the Red and Black. However even though they had Blues and Browns in stock they didn't have any to test in the shop.
Are you living in Lyon as well?
No I'm just there sometimes for school .
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LDLC should have available stock by Monday. I don't know about their physical outlets though. My contact explained to me the demand is much higher than expected so everybody has to make due with limited availability to start with.
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LDLC should have available stock by Monday. I don't know about their physical outlets though. My contact explained to me the demand is much higher than expected everybody has to make due with limited availability to start with.
yeah their website is showing avaibility for 17/11 .
I hope they'll have a demo board in store , I'll contact them .
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yeah their website is showing avaibility for 17/11 .
I hope they'll have a demo board in store , I'll contact them .
Would you mind telling me what they answer? I am a member over on HFR and if they do have a demo keyboard I could inform people about it for those living close by and who would want to try it out.
I've had my Novatouch since august and although it has it's imperfections it has really grown on me to the point that it has replaced my FILCO as my daily driver for typing and gaming. I'd really like this little keyboard to do well so future iterations could see the improvements it needs to be even better.
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Would you mind telling me what they answer? I am a member over on HFR and if they do have a demo keyboard I could inform people about it for those living close by and who would want to try it out.
I've had my Novatouch since august and although it has it's imperfections it has really grown on me to the point that it has replaced my FILCO as my daily driver for typing and gaming. I'd really like this little keyboard to do well so future iterations could see the improvements it needs to be even better.
Almost the same reason why I got it. I initially wanted to wait for the next version, but realized that there might not be even a new version if no one buys the current one. The keyboard is definitely not perfect but I can survive without the various locks LED and rattling stabilizers. Once my warranty is over, I will probably mod and fit it.
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To be fair though, I did not pay for mine since I have been a tester of the Novatouch for Cooler Master.
For what it is worth, a little bird told me so far it has been selling well and CM are already working on another Topre unit.
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To be fair though, I did not pay for mine since I have been a tester of the Novatouch for Cooler Master.
For what it is worth, a little bird told me so far it has been selling well and CM are already working on another Topre unit.
That's good news from the little bird. I would like to see a "Novatouch 2.0" that addresses the issues, shortcomings, and feature requests that have been posted on GH and DT. It would also be great if CM were to produce a 60% model with hybrid Topre switches.
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On paper, the Novatouch has most everything I could want in a keyboard, but after watching several typing videos, I simply don't like the way it sounds compared to my Realforces and HHKB. Not even a good quality cap set is enough to mask the fact that, to my ears, the Novatouch seems cheap. If it were priced at $120-$130, I'd take a flyer on it, but it's still a bit pricey for my liking. Even though the HHKB and Realforce are actually pricier, they seem worth the cost because I believe they feel like more premium products.
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yeah their website is showing avaibility for 17/11 .
I hope they'll have a demo board in store , I'll contact them .
Would you mind telling me what they answer? I am a member over on HFR and if they do have a demo keyboard I could inform people about it for those living close by and who would want to try it out.
I've had my Novatouch since august and although it has it's imperfections it has really grown on me to the point that it has replaced my FILCO as my daily driver for typing and gaming. I'd really like this little keyboard to do well so future iterations could see the improvements it needs to be even better.
I wouldn't mind to be updated as well when the intel comes by. By the way, what does HFR stand for?
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To be fair though, I did not pay for mine since I have been a tester of the Novatouch for Cooler Master.
For what it is worth, a little bird told me so far it has been selling well and CM are already working on another Topre unit.
Good thing to hear. But I hope I'll be able to land my hand on 1.0.
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That's good news from the little bird. I would like to see a "Novatouch 2.0" that addresses the issues, shortcomings, and feature requests that have been posted on GH and DT. It would also be great if CM were to produce a 60% model with hybrid Topre switches.
I have no further information on this subject, but if I was to guess I think the chances are Cooler Master is more likely working on another unit, rather than a Novatouch 2.0.
On paper, the Novatouch has most everything I could want in a keyboard, but after watching several typing videos, I simply don't like the way it sounds compared to my Realforces and HHKB. Not even a good quality cap set is enough to mask the fact that, to my ears, the Novatouch seems cheap. If it were priced at $120-$130, I'd take a flyer on it, but it's still a bit pricey for my liking. Even though the HHKB and Realforce are actually pricier, they seem worth the cost because I believe they feel like more premium products.
I can understand that. It is also what I wrote in my review on a foreign forum. That being said it is still, in my opinion, better than any other Cherry MX keyboard I have used.
I wouldn't mind to be updated as well when the intel comes by. By the way, what does HFR stand for?
C'est l'acronyme de Hardware.fr.
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That's good news from the little bird. I would like to see a "Novatouch 2.0" that addresses the issues, shortcomings, and feature requests that have been posted on GH and DT. It would also be great if CM were to produce a 60% model with hybrid Topre switches.
I have no further information on this subject, but if I was to guess I think the chances are Cooler Master is more likely working on another unit, rather than a Novatouch 2.0.
On paper, the Novatouch has most everything I could want in a keyboard, but after watching several typing videos, I simply don't like the way it sounds compared to my Realforces and HHKB. Not even a good quality cap set is enough to mask the fact that, to my ears, the Novatouch seems cheap. If it were priced at $120-$130, I'd take a flyer on it, but it's still a bit pricey for my liking. Even though the HHKB and Realforce are actually pricier, they seem worth the cost because I believe they feel like more premium products.
I can understand that. It is also what I wrote in my review on a foreign forum. That being said it is still, in my opinion, better than any other Cherry MX keyboard I have used.
I wouldn't mind to be updated as well when the intel comes by. By the way, what does HFR stand for?
C'est l'acronyme de Hardware.fr.
Merci. Je m'en doutais un peu mais je préfèrais être sûr !
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I did not need to wait, because I use AZERTY on the ANSI layout. Yeah, I know, it's a bit weird, but I prefer the ANSI layout with its big Shifts, and with Cherry MX keycaps you can easily set up an ANSI board in AZERTY.
I'm curious about how you deal with the 2 missing keys :
[> <] and [* µ ] ? are you using a remmaping software ?
IS the key above Return bound to something ?
Here is my ANSI Novatouch in AZERTY:
[attachimg=1]
The key set is a heavy Filco ABS doubleshot I have bought here:
http://www.keyboardco.com/product/double-shot-filco-105-key-french-keyset.asp
These sets also exist for US, German, Swedish/Finnish, UK and Japanese keyboards.
Costar inserts are glued to the stabilized keys, but they are easy to remove using a pair or pliers. The glue is not the kind the melts into the plastic, fortunately.
The keys are tall, so I had to use the set to populate the whole keyboard. Most of the time I just replace the letters, digits and punctuation symbols from the ANSI keyboard, leaving the modifiers in place, but in this case the original modifiers would have been too low.
Here, we have two stabilized keys that simply do not exist in the AZERTY set: the left Shift and the Enter key. As you see, it is possible to use the "+" and Enter keys from the numeric keypad as replacements. They do not fit perfectly: there is 1/8 of the key length missing on the left and on the right, and their legends are not the right ones.
The missing key located at the right of the left Shift is "< >" in AZERTY. I put this key in place of the one located under the Esc key, which is quite useless on AZERTY, as it is a "square of" symbol (upperscript 2). The "< >" key ends up in a row where it does not belong, so its profile is wrong (you can see it on the picture).
I remap this key when necessary, but depending on the OS sometimes it is not even needed. IIRC, on the Mac if you tell the OS that you are using an ANSI keyboard, the key will be automatically mapped to "< >". On Linux you need to create a short .Xmodmap file in your home directory and put one line to remap this key.
The key above Enter is the "* µ". As you can see the key does not have the right size. On a black keyboard, you barely notice it.
There is no need to remap this key, as it already produces the right scancode.
That's what I do to convert an ANSI TKL to AZERTY.
The same tricks work on a 60% board, except for the "< >", because the key located on the upper left of the keyboard in this case is used for Esc. US users have the same problem because Esc takes the place of backquote/tilde.
My solution for 60% keyboards is to remap CapsLock to "< >" (on a US keyboard that would be backquote/tilde), and Ctrl-CapsLock to CapsLock.
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I just noticed that the NT is available at my local store since Tuesday.
Since I bought my first Cherry MX board I'd love to try a Topre one. But I can't decide which one: the RealForce 88UB 45g or the NT ...
So far Spicebar if you don't mod the NT, do you think the RF is above? As far as I remember you modded your RF so I don't know if you can tell really but I still ask the question.
Yes, the Realforce is clearly better.
The build quality is equivalent, but the unmodded Realforce has a better sound.
The bottoming-out sound on the Realforce sounds less hollow. Both keyboards "thock", but the Novatouch case makes the sound less pleasant.
The upstroke sound is much louder on the Novatouch, and I can't explain why yet.
All the stabilized keys on the Novatouch have stabilizer wires in them, and these wires rattle a lot. The stabilized keys on standard Topre boards also have wire in them, but they don't rattle, or very little.
All these problem can be solved, I believe. Sound dampening material inside the case should take care of the bottoming-out sound. Thick silicon grease on the stabilizer wires will take care of the rattling sound. Slimmed down landing pads inside the Topre switches will take care of the upstroke sound. If you do these mods, the Novatouch will sound better than a stock Realforce.
What I do not know yet is how the silenced Novatouch will sound compared to a silenced Realforce.
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Wouldn't the best of both worlds be transplanting the Novatouch stems into the Realforce?
What draws me to the Novatouch is being able to have it dental banded AND adding o-rings thus significantly cutting travel distance.
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Wouldn't the best of both worlds be transplanting the Novatouch stems into the Realforce?
Depends, some people don't like the look of RF cases. Also you'd have to spend a whole lot of money :-X
What draws me to the Novatouch is being able to have it dental banded AND adding o-rings thus significantly cutting travel distance.
Might as well get a good scissor switch or other rubberdome board then. I don't see the point of capacitive switches if you want low travel (because you're going to bottom out anyways), and without that Topre is just a nice feeling rubberdome.
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I bought mine the other day, main selling points for me were:
MX keycap compatibility and the fact it was an accessible topre board. I think the fact that I had a play with one at the insomnia summer LAN also helped massively. They keycap compatibility was actually very high on my list because I have a reasonable amount of MX key sets and I didn't want to factor in the cost of a new topre set on top of the board.
With you guys talking about price; I paid £150 for mine from Scan. They seemed to be about the only people other than overclockers selling ISO units in the UK currently. I should say that neither OCUK or Scan actually said they were ISO units, just says English keyboard layout. I wouldn't have been mad if I got an ANSI one, but would have preferred the ISO that I did get.
To me this board feels infinitely better than my Razer BW 2013 with blues and my Poker II on browns. I am really enjoying this and honestly can't believe that a realforce or HHKB feels a great deal different. I know it is the sound difference most have a gripe with, but I wear closed headphones petty much the entire time I am at my PC so don't hear whatever switches I use.
Anyway here is a potato:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yTYZq6a6k9I/VGZRwdHtiDI/AAAAAAAAEB0/je7P4Bxqdig/w1598-h904-no/IMAG0042.jpg)
Also for anyone wondering about my bro...I may have had to make slight modifications to it so it would fit.
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Wouldn't the best of both worlds be transplanting the Novatouch stems into the Realforce?
What draws me to the Novatouch is being able to have it dental banded AND adding o-rings thus significantly cutting travel distance.
As far as I can tell, O-rings do absolutely nothing in the Novatouch.
I'm not even sure why they provide a set of O-rings with the keyboard.
They absolutely do not reduce the key travel at all. Why? Because they never make contact with the Topre switch housing. They cannot.
It is possible that their only purpose is to lift the keycap a little bit so it does not touch the top of the Topre housing. This would only apply to some Cherry MX keycaps. But none of the keycaps I have tried touch the housing on the downstroke.
In this case, all the O-rings would do is change the height of the key. They cannot act as shock absorbers and cannot reduce the key travel.
If you read the reviews, you will notice that all the users who have tried O-rings were not finding much difference. It's because it does not make any difference, unless you have strangely designed Cherry MX keycaps.
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They do however make a difference on the space bar by making the landing less rough (this is if you have removed the spring).
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As far as I can tell, O-rings do absolutely nothing in the Novatouch.
I have found the same thing, for the most part. They have done nothing on all the alphas I have tried. On some modifiers, they just dramatically reduce the travel and make the key feel mushy. They certainly don't do anything good. Can't tell why they're included.
It is possible that their only purpose is to lift the keycap a little bit so it does not touch the top of the Topre housing. This would only apply to some Cherry MX keycaps. But none of the keycaps I have tried touch the housing on the downstroke.
Try GMK right shift and enter... super annoying clack. It would be great if you could devise a solution. O rings, at least the included ones, are definitely not the solution. As described above, they make the key feel horrible.
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I'm not even sure why they provide a set of O-rings with the keyboard.
Doesn't make much sense, since it doesn't affect key travel or noise, the latter being the main reason why most folks put them on MX boards.
This is a great video illustrating the differences in sound between the Novatouch, including the useless o-rings, and the Leopold FC660C, a keyboard that's very close in sound to the Realforce.
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What draws me to the Novatouch is being able to have it dental banded AND adding o-rings thus significantly cutting travel distance.
Might as well get a good scissor switch or other rubberdome board then. I don't see the point of capacitive switches if you want low travel (because you're going to bottom out anyways), and without that Topre is just a nice feeling rubberdome.
Capacitive are nice if you like that membrane sheet feel; Also, it is hard to find a compact scissor switch/rubberdome that is above 2kro for gaming.
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Capacitive are nice if you like that membrane sheet feel; Also, it is hard to find a compact scissor switch/rubberdome that is above 2kro for gaming.
Capacitive has no feel for itself (because it's a no-contact mechanism) ;)
What I meant was: Topre switches are capacitive so you don't have to bottom out. However, if you're going to have low travel switches, there is no real point to use them because you're going to bottom out anyways. There are ways to achieve a higher KRO with regular rubberdomes too, and using those instead of a capacitive switch would result in a cheaper board, making it even harder to justify the Topre price tag. Sadly I don't think such a board is in production anywhere right now.
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dunno....the thing is that the rattling is louder also on the normal keys, not just the stabilized ones. i think it's a combination of the different stem and the keycap material...
That's too bad. For me, personally, the smoothness, silence and high tolerances of the Topre Realforce, and the good PBT keys are what sets them apart from other keyboards.
Without those qualities, the Novatouch sounds to me like just a rubber dome with 6-KRO that can take Cherry MX keycaps ...
I have already got a rubber dome that can take Cherry MX keycaps: a BTC board that I got at a flea market for ~2€ ...
And both my BTC and my Topre Realforce have Swedish legends on the keycaps. Not "Nordic"! Proper Swedish legends, which are otherwise hard to find Cherry MX-compatible keycaps with.
There are ways to achieve a higher KRO with regular rubberdomes too, and using those instead of a capacitive switch would result in a cheaper board, making it even harder to justify the Topre price tag.
Oh yeah... My BTC keyboard has domes with conductive rubber on top of a one-sided PCB. It would be possible to make a new PCB with diodes and get NKRO.
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What I meant was: Topre switches are capacitive so you don't have to bottom out. However, if you're going to have low travel switches, there is no real point to use them because you're going to bottom out anyways. There are ways to achieve a higher KRO with regular rubberdomes too, and using those instead of a capacitive switch would result in a cheaper board, making it even harder to justify the Topre price tag.
The big advantage to the Topre switch compared to the “standard” electrical-contact rubberdome (whether the dome has a little conductive piece that bridges two pads, or whether it pushes contacts on separate membranes together) is that the Topre switch reliably actuates at about halfway through the stroke, whereas many rubber domes fail to make reliable contact unless you really mash them down. It’s really bad when a tactile switch doesn’t reliably actuate after the tactile point, because it encourages the typist to use dramatically more force than necessary, and results in a nasty impact shock at the bottom.
Bottoming out on any switch isn’t bad, per se. What’s bad is bottoming out hard.
Most scissor switches, as well as certain types of buckling rubber dome/sleeve switches, are pretty good about reliably actuating once they get past the tactile point, so they should also be a reasonable option.
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Without those qualities, the Novatouch sounds to me like just a rubber dome with 6-KRO that can take Cherry MX keycaps ...
To nitpick, the Novatouch is NKRO over USB.
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I did not need to wait, because I use AZERTY on the ANSI layout. Yeah, I know, it's a bit weird, but I prefer the ANSI layout with its big Shifts, and with Cherry MX keycaps you can easily set up an ANSI board in AZERTY.
I'm curious about how you deal with the 2 missing keys :
[> <] and [* µ ] ? are you using a remmaping software ?
IS the key above Return bound to something ?
Here is my ANSI Novatouch in AZERTY:
(Attachment Link)
The key set is a heavy Filco ABS doubleshot I have bought here:
http://www.keyboardco.com/product/double-shot-filco-105-key-french-keyset.asp
These sets also exist for US, German, Swedish/Finnish, UK and Japanese keyboards.
Costar inserts are glued to the stabilized keys, but they are easy to remove using a pair or pliers. The glue is not the kind the melts into the plastic, fortunately.
The keys are tall, so I had to use the set to populate the whole keyboard. Most of the time I just replace the letters, digits and punctuation symbols from the ANSI keyboard, leaving the modifiers in place, but in this case the original modifiers would have been too low.
Here, we have two stabilized keys that simply do not exist in the AZERTY set: the left Shift and the Enter key. As you see, it is possible to use the "+" and Enter keys from the numeric keypad as replacements. They do not fit perfectly: there is 1/8 of the key length missing on the left and on the right, and their legends are not the right ones.
The missing key located at the right of the left Shift is "< >" in AZERTY. I put this key in place of the one located under the Esc key, which is quite useless on AZERTY, as it is a "square of" symbol (upperscript 2). The "< >" key ends up in a row where it does not belong, so its profile is wrong (you can see it on the picture).
I remap this key when necessary, but depending on the OS sometimes it is not even needed. IIRC, on the Mac if you tell the OS that you are using an ANSI keyboard, the key will be automatically mapped to "< >". On Linux you need to create a short .Xmodmap file in your home directory and put one line to remap this key.
The key above Enter is the "* µ". As you can see the key does not have the right size. On a black keyboard, you barely notice it.
There is no need to remap this key, as it already produces the right scancode.
That's what I do to convert an ANSI TKL to AZERTY.
The same tricks work on a 60% board, except for the "< >", because the key located on the upper left of the keyboard in this case is used for Esc. US users have the same problem because Esc takes the place of backquote/tilde.
My solution for 60% keyboards is to remap CapsLock to "< >" (on a US keyboard that would be backquote/tilde), and Ctrl-CapsLock to CapsLock.
Thanks for complete answer , that's an interesting way to do it but it re-enforce my choice to remain ISO Azerty , even if I miss a lot of opportunities .
yeah their website is showing avaibility for 17/11 .
I hope they'll have a demo board in store , I'll contact them .
Would you mind telling me what they answer? I am a member over on HFR and if they do have a demo keyboard I could inform people about it for those living close by and who would want to try it out.
I've had my Novatouch since august and although it has it's imperfections it has really grown on me to the point that it has replaced my FILCO as my daily driver for typing and gaming. I'd really like this little keyboard to do well so future iterations could see the improvements it needs to be even better.
yeah their website is showing avaibility for 17/11 .
I hope they'll have a demo board in store , I'll contact them .
Would you mind telling me what they answer? I am a member over on HFR and if they do have a demo keyboard I could inform people about it for those living close by and who would want to try it out.
I've had my Novatouch since august and although it has it's imperfections it has really grown on me to the point that it has replaced my FILCO as my daily driver for typing and gaming. I'd really like this little keyboard to do well so future iterations could see the improvements it needs to be even better.
Just called the lyon store , demo board will not happen . :(
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Just called the lyon store , demo board will not happen . :(
That sucks. I'm guessing they are not going to do demo units because of the limited stock.
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Just called the lyon store , demo board will not happen . :(
That sucks. I'm guessing they are not going to do demo units because of the limited stock.
What the guy told me is they don't have a lot of space , and even if they rarely do demo boards .
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if you like nice keycaps and topre switches then it's the ideal keyboard, if you don't want to put different keycaps on it you could get a Realforce or one of the other Topre keyboards
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yeah their website is showing avaibility for 17/11 .
I hope they'll have a demo board in store , I'll contact them .
Would you mind telling me what they answer? I am a member over on HFR and if they do have a demo keyboard I could inform people about it for those living close by and who would want to try it out.
I've had my Novatouch since august and although it has it's imperfections it has really grown on me to the point that it has replaced my FILCO as my daily driver for typing and gaming. I'd really like this little keyboard to do well so future iterations could see the improvements it needs to be even better.
Just called the lyon store , demo board will not happen . :(
That's a pity. I wish I could test it. I guess the price of the board and the stock amount are the reasons they don't want to put one in the shop. I'll have to get a Topre board blindly then.
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if you like nice keycaps and topre switches then it's the ideal keyboard, if you don't want to put different keycaps on it you could get a Realforce or one of the other Topre keyboards
Captain Obvious, is it you?
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Capacitive are nice if you like that membrane sheet feel; Also, it is hard to find a compact scissor switch/rubberdome that is above 2kro for gaming.
Capacitive has no feel for itself (because it's a no-contact mechanism) ;)
What I meant was: Topre switches are capacitive so you don't have to bottom out. However, if you're going to have low travel switches, there is no real point to use them because you're going to bottom out anyways. There are ways to achieve a higher KRO with regular rubberdomes too, and using those instead of a capacitive switch would result in a cheaper board, making it even harder to justify the Topre price tag. Sadly I don't think such a board is in production anywhere right now.
I-Rocks just came out with the K20; have no idea if it's any good - but it can handle key roll over:
(http://image.brainbox.co.kr/content/review/4580/k20_main_6.jpg)