geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dante on Sun, 09 November 2014, 22:15:42
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http://matias.ca/60/pc/
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The fact it could take up to 18 months is so brutal. The metal case option seems sweet, and the layout is basically exactly how I'd want (except the win key swapped with a different logo).
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I would have been in on this with a standard bottom row, I hate the look of the massive keys.
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I would have been in on this with a standard bottom row, I hate the look of the massive keys.
As do I. That and the fact that you can only use the Mathias case. That bottom row makes it so that you can't use it with any of the other 60% cases out there. I really wanted to want one because I want a 60% Alps board, but this is just not for me.
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I would have been in on this with a standard bottom row, I hate the look of the massive keys.
As do I. That and the fact that you can only use the Mathias case. That bottom row makes it so that you can't use it with any of the other 60% cases out there. I really wanted to want one because I want a 60% Alps board, but this is just not for me.
Infinity?
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I would have been in on this with a standard bottom row, I hate the look of the massive keys.
As do I. That and the fact that you can only use the Mathias case. That bottom row makes it so that you can't use it with any of the other 60% cases out there. I really wanted to want one because I want a 60% Alps board, but this is just not for me.
So... http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=988 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61966.0 ?
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Infinity?
Have one ordered. A bit pricey for my tastes though.
So... http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=988 ?
Don't care for Mathias switches, they just don't feel or sound as good as OG Alps. It is an option, but it's $120 for a board I'd have to desolder the switches on and resolder better ones on that I'll have desoldered from another board. That's a lot of soldering for one board, plus I'd be using caps I hate. I prefer building from bare PCB whenever I can since I get exactly what I want.
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I would have been in on this with a standard bottom row, I hate the look of the massive keys.
As do I. That and the fact that you can only use the Mathias case. That bottom row makes it so that you can't use it with any of the other 60% cases out there. I really wanted to want one because I want a 60% Alps board, but this is just not for me.
So... http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=988 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61966.0 ?
No programmability :/
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No programmability :/
What exactly are you looking for? I recommend voting in the MassDrop poll at https://www.massdrop.com/vote/infinity-keyboard-variations-concepts
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No programmability :/
What exactly are you looking for? I recommend voting in the MassDrop poll at https://www.massdrop.com/vote/infinity-keyboard-variations-concepts
Nothing special, just a Pure layout with programmability.
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No mention of the controller here…? That's a bit discouraging.
Will the PCB support PCB-mounted (Cherry MX) switches? (Because the picture that shows holes looks like that.) Where to get MX-compatible keycaps for the bottom row?
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Where to get MX-compatible keycaps for the bottom row?
You can’t use MX on the bottom row (well, certainly not for the arrows, and you probably can’t find keycaps for the rest, so..).
The idea is that the keyboard is either all-Alps (or Matias or whatever), or else Alps bottom row + MX on the rest.
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I intend to use nothing but Matias Alps.
Not going to lie ... not at all happy with the bottom row - however this is one of a handful of keyboards on the market that was engineered to be as low profile as technically possible; and for my personal preferences this feature takes precedence over form factor.
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By the way, if folks have questions, Edgar Matias is active on the IC thread, so that’s probably a better place to get questions answered: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268
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Folks, the bottom row is the defining feature of the design.
This has been discussed for several months now. It's a 60% board with all the navigation keys.
If you don't like the bottom row, too bad, but don't expect any change.
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No mention of the controller here…? That's a bit discouraging.
Will the PCB support PCB-mounted (Cherry MX) switches? (Because the picture that shows holes looks like that.) Where to get MX-compatible keycaps for the bottom row?
The controller is not programmable, as far as I know, but all the Fn+key combinations will send a unique scan code. This may help.
The bottom row can be populated only with Matias (ALPS) switches. The Cherry MX switches would not allow for the required key density of the navigation cluster.
The rest of the keyboard can be populated with Cherry MX or ALPS, as you have noticed.
If you want Cherry MX on the top 4 rows, you still need ALPS switches for the bottom row, and ALPS compatible keycaps. They are sold in the GB, but there are two problems here:
- You must purchase 200 ALPS switches, but you will only use 14 of them.
- You must purchase all the ALPS compatible keycaps, but you will use only 14 of them.
- Then you will have to purchase your own Cherry MX switches and their keycaps.
I want to use Cherry MX switches for everything but the bottom row, and this problem is making me think twice about purchasing the keyboard.
You will find more details about the board in the thread from which it has originated, 4 months ago:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268.0
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7bit sells Matias switches, doesn't he?
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7bit sells Matias switches, doesn't he?
yes and so does mechanicalkeyboards.com
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For sure not the Click/Quiet Alps - I plan on buying a bag of Linears - maybe I can split them up for those that are interested?
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For sure not the Click/Quiet Alps - I plan on buying a bag of Linears - maybe I can split them up for those that are interested?
I'd go in for 1/3 of a bag of linear with you, dante.
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Folks, the bottom row is the defining feature of the design.
This has been discussed for several months now. It's a 60% board with all the navigation keys.
If you don't like the bottom row, too bad, but don't expect any change.
When I read the thread, that bottom row seemed to be pushed for by a few very vocal people and in line with Mathias' vision. Many people spoke out against it. I don't think anyone expects it to be changed, but many people do not like it and won't be buying it for that reason. I know for me that bottom row was the thing that killed it. Anytime you make a non-standard board and layout, you're going to have a harder time getting people on board with it.
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For sure not the Click/Quiet Alps - I plan on buying a bag of Linears - maybe I can split them up for those that are interested?
I'd go in for 1/3 of a bag of linear with you, dante.
I'll take another 1/3.
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For sure not the Click/Quiet Alps - I plan on buying a bag of Linears - maybe I can split them up for those that are interested?
Not sure if, you're replying to me/Spam, but
Order-ID | Stock| Price|Cur|Product code
ALPSMC | 240 | 0.30|EUR|Clicky
ALPSMT | >500 | 0.30|EUR|Tactile
ALPSML | 400 | 0.30|EUR|Linear
ALPSMT200 | 1 | 50.00|EUR|Tactile 200 pack
http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html
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Folks, the bottom row is the defining feature of the design.
This has been discussed for several months now. It's a 60% board with all the navigation keys.
If you don't like the bottom row, too bad, but don't expect any change.
When I read the thread, that bottom row seemed to be pushed for by a few very vocal people and in line with Mathias' vision. Many people spoke out against it. I don't think anyone expects it to be changed, but many people do not like it and won't be buying it for that reason. I know for me that bottom row was the thing that killed it. Anytime you make a non-standard board and layout, you're going to have a harder time getting people on board with it.
I was one of many who spoke about it, and as nubbinator wrote, opinions not supporting the non standard bottom row were dismissed by those few very vocal ones.
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Folks, the bottom row is the defining feature of the design.
This has been discussed for several months now. It's a 60% board with all the navigation keys.
If you don't like the bottom row, too bad, but don't expect any change.
When I read the thread, that bottom row seemed to be pushed for by a few very vocal people and in line with Mathias' vision. Many people spoke out against it. I don't think anyone expects it to be changed, but many people do not like it and won't be buying it for that reason. I know for me that bottom row was the thing that killed it. Anytime you make a non-standard board and layout, you're going to have a harder time getting people on board with it.
I agree with you on this, the fact that a standard layout makes it easier to find keycaps and so on.
I have myself designed two 60% layouts based on this principle: both SpaceFN and GuiFN are layouts designed for "standard" PC keyboards.
But I'm afraid there is not much more we can do with a standard 60% layout.
The approach suggested by Matias with this keyboard breaks the 60% layout with this bottom row. The rest of the keyboard is standard (almost - there is the right Shift and Del keys, but these keys already exist). It is also the same width as a 60%.
The non-standard bottom row offers the functionality normally found only on TKL. That's a serious advantage and I think it's worth a try.
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When I read the thread, that bottom row seemed to be pushed for by a few very vocal people and in line with Mathias' vision. Many people spoke out against it. I don't think anyone expects it to be changed, but many people do not like it and won't be buying it for that reason. I know for me that bottom row was the thing that killed it. Anytime you make a non-standard board and layout, you're going to have a harder time getting people on board with it.
I’m not sure what your point is. The main vocal person was Edgar Matias himself, who explained several times that (a) they want to try to offer similar features found in the ErgoPro in a rectangular keyboard, since they need to make various 1.5u and .75u wide keycaps anyway, and (b) they want to do something that other keyboards don’t already do... there are several other OEMs interested in using Matias switches in various standard-ish layouts, so if that’s what you want just buy one of those instead.
Hopefully in the future other keyboards will also switch to using the new stabilizers, so that both MX and Alps can be properly supported on the same keyboard, including support for keycaps from old 80s keyboards.
Either way, the near future looks fairly bright for keyboards with Alps compatibility:
- There are of course Matias’s other keyboards, like the Tactile Pro, Quiet Pro, Mini Quiet Pro, Ergo Pro, etc.
- I hope that if KBParadise makes another iteration of their new 60% Matias-switch keyboard, they can switch to the new stabilizers & plate cutouts for them; currently they’re compatible with most old Alps caps, but not SP’s caps.
- I’m sure the Infinity keyboard is not the end of MassDrop’s MX/Alps keyboard ambitions – they want to make an MX+Alps Ergodox, and whatever layouts people are willing to buy. I’m guessing there will be a standard TKL board sometime given the current state of their poll, and presumably other stuff after that. I suspect that sometime within the next few months they’ll come up with an Ergodox that supports Alps switches.
- The stenosaurus (open source stenography keyboard) is planning to use extra-light linear Matias switches, see here (http://stenosaurus.blogspot.com/2014/11/countdown-to-launch.html)
- I’m not sure if the keyboard.io folks have made a final decision of what switches to use, but I know they were at least talking about using Matias switches, and used some on one of their prototypes (the Alps keycap mount makes it easier to make prototype keycaps).
- Matias’s new linear switches should be particularly attractive for makers of “gaming keyboards”, since they have clear housings to support surface-mount RGB LEDs underneath, and are much cheaper with better availability than MX switches (especially cheaper and more available than MX “RGB” switches). I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see some blinged out light-up Matias-switch keyboards sometime in the next few months.
- Personally I think Alps / Matias switches work better than MX switches for prototypes / DIY keyboards, e.g. with a 1/16" acrylic plate (backed by another thicker plate), or with a 3d-printed or CNC milled plate/case. With a metal plate, they’re about equally effective.
- Hasu’s tmk_keyboard firmware is a quite effective ADB to USB converter, so the various widely available and high quality old Apple keyboards (The 658-4081, M015, M0116, M3501, etc.) can be easily made compatible with modern machines.
- Other old Alps boards from Northgate, SGI, Dell, SIIG, etc. are starting to be a bit better known (and better cataloged) by geekhack/deskthority members than a few years ago, but prices for used keyboards are still low enough for anyone interested to easily dip a toe in. Matias switches are available to replace broken or poor-condition switches on any such boards.
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I'll get one of these if the keycaps are PBT. If they're ABS it's definitely a deal breaker. I can't do ABS keycaps anymore :(
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****... 1000 boards to get PBT caps and a $140 aluminum case? How the hell is this so expensive?
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****... 1000 boards to get PBT caps and a $140 aluminum case? How the hell is this so expensive?
I'd say they gotta pay for the tooling somehow. 8)
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I'll get one of these if the keycaps are PBT. If they're ABS it's definitely a deal breaker. I can't do ABS keycaps anymore :(
The bottom row keycaps will be PBT regardless, so just get some PBT keycaps from another source for the rest. There are a bunch of old Alps boards you can harvest keycaps from.
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Aren't there V60's offered in matias?
The non-standard layout will probably turn some people off. Those arrow keys look quite tiny.
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Aren't there V60's offered in matias?
The non-standard layout will probably turn some people off. Those arrow keys look quite tiny.
On the other hand, the layout may turn some people on. This keyboard is also only around 1.1" thick so it is going to be very low profile - something that can't be said for all other 60%.