geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Findecanor on Sat, 15 November 2014, 10:25:34
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If you like me, live in a non-English speaking country, and spend a lot of time on the Internet and reading books, you come across some English words in writing long before you hear them.
You may have made the words sound different in your head from how they are pronounced by real English-speakers. In a few cases, it had taken me years from I read a word to when I learned the correct pronunciation.
Here are some of mine that have taken long ... that I know of:
Ambiguity - am-bee-jew-itty. (am-big-witty)
Segue - seg-way (seeg)
Albeit - all-bee-it (all-bite)
Caveat - kavvy-att (cave-eat)
What are yours?
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Never heard 'cache' until about 5 years ago. Until then thought it was pronounced 'kay-shh', rather than 'cash'. For shame.
Also learned 'expresso' is wrong, it's 'espresso', although I so rarely referred to it. Can't think of any others.
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For the longest time even while phonetically hearing the correct pronunciation I read hors d'oeuvres as hors doov-ruz.
Also I read schadenfreude as shadenfrood. Instead of sha-den-froy-der
For the most part, I have learned the awkward words phonetically and properly.
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Also learned 'expresso' is wrong, it's 'espresso', although I so rarely referred to it.
Not sure Italian words count.
I think this happens all the time when you read on a much higher level than your peers speak. Mom had this problem famously in family lore with the following:
antique (auntie-q)
I had this with a number of different words, though the only one that springs to mind is
Chaos (chowse)
Then there's lots of words people mispronounce all the time like "meme" (i've heard at least three wrong pronunciations of this.)
Then on the flip side in french class, some poor guy was trying to pronounce "Mme".
Lots of good stories here :)
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I'm dyslexic so like half the dictionary
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I grew up reading the word "banal" and assumed that the first "a" was long, as "bane-ul".
Of course, since bane means something that repulses, therefore banal must mean even more repulsive.
Imagine my surprise to discover that this word that reeked of repulsiveness was actually very timid.
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Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
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Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
The latter
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Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
e-pi-to-mee
sooo neither?
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I grew up reading the word "banal" and assumed that the first "a" was long, as "bane-ul".
Reminds me of 'Uranus'.
Another common mispronunciation amongst tech circles is 'pwn'. How is anyone meant to know it's 'p-own' instead of 'pawn'. It's an example of a pretty esoteric term finding its way into the vernacular by use.
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Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
The latter
Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
e-pi-to-mee
sooo neither?
See? :eek:
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Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
e-pi-to-mee
sooo neither?
oh yeah wait. Forgot how to language for a second
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I'm dyslexic so like half the dictionary
i don't get it
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Of course there's potatoes and tomatoes. Is it po-tah-toes and to-mah-toes or what? This is probably an age old debate. But it's very appropriate to this thread.
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Of course there's potatoes and tomatoes. Is it po-tah-toes and to-mah-toes or what? This is probably an age old debate. But it's very appropriate to this thread.
It can be either really. It all depends on which dialect you were growing up with.
Just like vineyard. It can be vin-yerd, or vyne-yard.
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Cool whip.
That is all.
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Cool whip.
That is all.
One of the most ubiquitous conundrums of our time. Answer: N/A
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Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
e-pi-to-mee
sooo neither?
Oh wow. I've used the word in conversation and know the meaning of 'e-pit-tom-ee' orally, but have always mentally pronounced and read 'epitome' as a different word entirely ('epi-tome'), although thinking of it with the same meaning. What a bizarre thing.
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Walking
when I was younger, in middle school etc.. thought it was pronounced wok-king (picture someone walking around, stir-frying all over the place)
Shortly after and up until today, I assumed it was pronounced in a way similar to merging wal-mart and burger king -----wal-king
after one google search, it's clear now...
The "correct" pronunciation is [waw-king] //source dictionary.com
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Colonel was a fun one when I was a kid.
Kernel? Really?
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does kanye count? i used to think it was cane-y
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I know a lot of people who still say 'irregardless'
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I know a lot of people who still say 'irregardless'
but those are people that are native english speakers mostly. that's not even excusable
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The Chaos.
Gerard Nolst Trenité
Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse.
I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy;
Tear in eye, your dress you'll tear;
Queer, fair seer, hear my prayer.
Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!
Just compare heart, hear and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word.
Sword and sward, retain and Britain
(Mind the latter how it's written).
Made has not the sound of bade,
Say – said, pay – paid, laid but plaid.
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,
But be careful how you speak,
Say: gush, bush, steak, streak, break, bleak,
Previous, precious, fuchsia, via
Recipe, pipe, studding-sail, choir;
Woven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.
Say, expecting fraud and trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,
Branch, ranch, measles, topsails, aisles,
Missiles, similes, reviles.
Wholly, holly, signal, signing,
Same, examining, but mining,
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far.
From “desire”: desirable – admirable from “admire”,
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier,
Topsham, brougham, renown, but known,
Knowledge, done, lone, gone, none, tone,
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel.
Gertrude, German, wind and wind,
Beau, kind, kindred, queue, mankind,
Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather,
Reading, Reading, heathen, heather.
This phonetic labyrinth
Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.
Have you ever yet endeavoured
To pronounce revered and severed,
Demon, lemon, ghoul, foul, soul,
Peter, petrol and patrol?
Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which exactly rhymes with khaki.
Discount, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward,
Ricocheted and crocheting, croquet?
Right! Your pronunciation's OK.
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.
Is your R correct in higher?
Keats asserts it rhymes with Thalia.
Hugh, but hug, and hood, but hoot,
Buoyant, minute, but minute.
Say abscission with precision,
Now: position and transition;
Would it tally with my rhyme
If I mentioned paradigm?
Twopence, threepence, tease are easy,
But cease, crease, grease and greasy?
Cornice, nice, valise, revise,
Rabies, but lullabies.
Of such puzzling words as nauseous,
Rhyming well with cautious, tortious,
You'll envelop lists, I hope,
In a linen envelope.
Would you like some more? You'll have it!
Affidavit, David, davit.
To abjure, to perjure. Sheik
Does not sound like Czech but ache.
Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, loch, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed but vowed.
Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover.
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice,
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.
Petal, penal, and canal,
Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal,
Suit, suite, ruin. Circuit, conduit
Rhyme with “shirk it” and “beyond it”,
But it is not hard to tell
Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall.
Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor,
Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
Has the A of drachm and hammer.
****, hussy and possess,
Desert, but desert, address.
Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants
Hoist in lieu of flags left pennants.
Courier, courtier, tomb, bomb, comb,
Cow, but Cowper, some and home.
“Solder, soldier! Blood is thicker”,
Quoth he, “than liqueur or liquor”,
Making, it is sad but true,
In bravado, much ado.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Pilot, pivot, gaunt, but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand and grant.
Arsenic, specific, scenic,
Relic, rhetoric, hygienic.
Gooseberry, goose, and close, but close,
Paradise, rise, rose, and dose.
Say inveigh, neigh, but inveigle,
Make the latter rhyme with eagle.
Mind! Meandering but mean,
Valentine and magazine.
And I bet you, dear, a penny,
You say mani-(fold) like many,
Which is wrong. Say rapier, pier,
Tier (one who ties), but tier.
Arch, archangel; pray, does erring
Rhyme with herring or with stirring?
Prison, bison, treasure trove,
Treason, hover, cover, cove,
Perseverance, severance. Ribald
Rhymes (but piebald doesn't) with nibbled.
Phaeton, paean, gnat, ghat, gnaw,
Lien, psychic, shone, bone, pshaw.
Don't be down, my own, but rough it,
And distinguish buffet, buffet;
Brood, stood, roof, rook, school, wool, boon,
Worcester, Boleyn, to impugn.
Say in sounds correct and sterling
Hearse, hear, hearken, year and yearling.
Evil, devil, mezzotint,
Mind the z! (A gentle hint.)
Now you need not pay attention
To such sounds as I don't mention,
Sounds like pores, pause, pours and paws,
Rhyming with the pronoun yours;
Nor are proper names included,
Though I often heard, as you did,
Funny rhymes to unicorn,
Yes, you know them, Vaughan and Strachan.
No, my maiden, coy and comely,
I don't want to speak of Cholmondeley.
No. Yet Froude compared with proud
Is no better than McLeod.
But mind trivial and vial,
Tripod, menial, denial,
Troll and trolley, realm and ream,
Schedule, mischief, schism, and scheme.
Argil, gill, Argyll, gill. Surely
May be made to rhyme with Raleigh,
But you're not supposed to say
Piquet rhymes with sobriquet.
Had this invalid invalid
Worthless documents? How pallid,
How uncouth he, couchant, looked,
When for Portsmouth I had booked!
Zeus, Thebes, Thales, Aphrodite,
Paramour, enamoured, flighty,
Episodes, antipodes,
Acquiesce, and obsequies.
Please don't monkey with the geyser,
Don't peel 'taters with my razor,
Rather say in accents pure:
Nature, stature and mature.
Pious, impious, limb, climb, glumly,
Worsted, worsted, crumbly, dumbly,
Conquer, conquest, vase, phase, fan,
Wan, sedan and artisan.
The TH will surely trouble you
More than R, CH or W.
Say then these phonetic gems:
Thomas, thyme, Theresa, Thames.
Thompson, Chatham, Waltham, Streatham,
There are more but I forget 'em –
Wait! I've got it: Anthony,
Lighten your anxiety.
The archaic word albeit
Does not rhyme with eight – you see it;
With and forthwith, one has voice,
One has not, you make your choice.
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say: finger;
Then say: singer, ginger, linger.
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, age,
Hero, heron, query, very,
Parry, tarry, fury, bury,
Dost, lost, post, and doth, cloth, loth,
Job, Job, blossom, bosom, oath.
Faugh, oppugnant, keen oppugners,
Bowing, bowing, banjo-tuners
Holm you know, but noes, canoes,
Puisne, truism, use, to use?
Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual,
Seat, sweat, chaste, caste, Leigh, eight, height,
Put, nut, granite, and unite
Reefer does not rhyme with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,
Hint, pint, senate, but sedate.
Gaelic, Arabic, pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific;
Tour, but our, dour, succour, four,
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Say manoeuvre, yacht and vomit,
Next omit, which differs from it
Bona fide, alibi
Gyrate, dowry and awry.
Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.
Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion,
Rally with ally; yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay!
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, receiver.
Never guess – it is not safe,
We say calves, valves, half, but Ralf.
Starry, granary, canary,
Crevice, but device, and eyrie,
Face, but preface, then grimace,
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Bass, large, target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, oust, joust, and scour, but scourging;
Ear, but earn; and ere and tear
Do not rhyme with here but heir.
Mind the O of off and often
Which may be pronounced as orphan,
With the sound of saw and sauce;
Also soft, lost, cloth and cross.
Pudding, puddle, putting. Putting?
Yes: at golf it rhymes with shutting.
Respite, spite, consent, resent.
Liable, but Parliament.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, clerk and jerk,
Asp, grasp, wasp, demesne, cork, work.
A of valour, vapid, vapour,
S of news (compare newspaper),
G of gibbet, gibbon, gist,
I of antichrist and grist,
Differ like diverse and divers,
Rivers, strivers, shivers, fivers.
Once, but nonce, toll, doll, but roll,
Polish, Polish, poll and poll.
Pronunciation – think of Psyche! –
Is a paling, stout and spiky.
Won't it make you lose your wits
Writing groats and saying 'grits'?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel
Strewn with stones like rowlock, gunwale,
Islington, and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.
Don't you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father?
Finally, which rhymes with enough,
Though, through, bough, cough,
hough, sough, tough??
Hiccough has the sound of sup...
My advice is: GIVE IT UP!
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Never heard 'cache' until about 5 years ago. Until then thought it was pronounced 'kay-shh', rather than 'cash'. For shame.
Also learned 'expresso' is wrong, it's 'espresso', although I so rarely referred to it. Can't think of any others.
At work we pronounce 'cache' as cash-aye
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The first time I heard someone say 'ruff' I honestly didn't know they were saying 'roof.' But that's more of a regional pronunciation discrepancy.
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The first time I heard someone say 'ruff' I honestly didn't know they were saying 'roof.'
I was confused when I went to see my family in Chicago for the first time
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I thought it was epi--teh-mee.. where the teh is quite short.
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At work we pronounce 'cache' as cash-aye
Tell your coworkers they don’t English right.
They’re probably getting cache confused with cachet.
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Isn't cache a French word anyway?
How do they say it?
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Until today I'm not sure if epitome is e-pi-toe-may or just e-pi-tome.
e-pi-to-mee
I thought it was epi--teh-mee.. where the teh is quite short.
In American English at least, the vowel sound for the “to” part is ə (schwa). Sometimes this sound gets spelled “uh”.
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Isn't cache a French word anyway?
How do they say it?
cash
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Isn't cache a French word anyway?
How do they say it?
cash
i got 512 cash on my drive array.. it's gonna win something I just know it..
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Albeit - until very recently I though it was al - bite.
In movies I thought they were saying "all be it" as three separate words.
I still can't bring myself to pronounce it properly.
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Reminds me of 'Uranus'.
I am an old man.
I could not believe it when the usual US pronunciation of the planet and the Titan was changed in the 1980s.
To my ears, "urine + us" is much uglier and more vulgar than "your + anus"
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Me too with "albeit," also "kiosk"
When I was a kid I thought Amazon was "amaze-un" :D
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I could not believe it when the US pronunciation of the planet and the Titan was changed in the 1980s.
To my ears, "urine + us" is much uglier and more vulgar that "your + anus"
Both are perfectly acceptable pronunciations though...
I think it’s astronomers who prefer the “urine” version. Astronomers have always been a bit kinkier than the general public.
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virtually nobody in russia can pronounce "acid" and "archive" properly.
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virtually nobody in russia can pronounce "acid" and "archive" properly.
How do they pronounce it?
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I remember playing runescape and having my friend inform me that I had been saying "melee" wrong the whole time. I know there are some other similar events but I can't remember any off the top of my head.
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I remember playing runescape and having my friend inform me that I had been saying "melee" wrong the whole time. I know there are some other similar events but I can't remember any off the top of my head.
said it like "me-lee" right? I did that for the longest time.
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this word of french origins is pronounced exactly like its spelt, cul-de-sac
thought to myself they are on to something here then
realized this is also a word of french origins-> receipt :rolleyes:
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I remember playing runescape and having my friend inform me that I had been saying "melee" wrong the whole time. I know there are some other similar events but I can't remember any off the top of my head.
said it like "me-lee" right? I did that for the longest time.
I think so. I'v been saying it correctly for so long I forgot the bad way :P
With two e's one would think it is pronounced like 'li' not 'le'. Ohh well. I mean Bruce Lee isn't pronounced "Bruce Lay"...
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virtually nobody in russia can pronounce "acid" and "archive" properly.
How do they pronounce it?
ay-seed
r-cheev
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this word of french origins is pronounced exactly like its spelt, cul-de-sac
thought to myself they are on to something here then
realized this is also a word of french origins-> receipt :rolleyes:
Technically you are not supposed to pronounce the l of "Cul".
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How bout German people trying to say squirrel? :))
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I remember playing runescape and having my friend inform me that I had been saying "melee" wrong the whole time. I know there are some other similar events but I can't remember any off the top of my head.
[...] With two e's one would think it is pronounced like 'li' not 'le'. Ohh well. I mean Bruce Lee isn't pronounced "Bruce Lay"...
The spelling used to be (or still is if you want to be a bit fancy) mêlée. Bruce Lee doesn’t stick a bunch of accent marks on his name.
Before the French started dropping letters it was meslee/medlee, apparently from the medieval Latin misculare (“mix”) – the English words medley and meddle come from basically the same source.
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I grew up reading the word "banal" and assumed that the first "a" was long, as "bane-ul".
Of course, since bane means something that repulses, therefore banal must mean even more repulsive.
Imagine my surprise to discover that this word that reeked of repulsiveness was actually very timid.
So I knew that banal (which means "normal" or "ordinary" not necessarily "timid" though it can have all sorts of connotations) means, but I didnt know it was pronounced that way! I don't think I've ever heard it said.
So add that to my list of mispronunciations.
Walking
when I was younger, in middle school etc.. thought it was pronounced wok-king (picture someone walking around, stir-frying all over the place)
Shortly after and up until today, I assumed it was pronounced in a way similar to merging wal-mart and burger king -----wal-king
after one google search, it's clear now...
The "correct" pronunciation is [waw-king] //source dictionary.com
That's close enough though that people will just put it down to a different dialect if they notice at all.
If you just change out the vowels of a word, you basically just end up with a different accent. If you change the pacing or number of syllables then it sticks out. I think this is because English tends to be a very paced language.
OOh another one for me, I thought Galápagos was "gal-uh-pay-gose" I was able to find one dictionary online that lists that as an alternative to the actual . But I still think it sounds like a bunch of pudding hitting the floor.
This was probably because of the English word "galapago" is pronounced "gal-uh-pay-go"
Isn't cache a French word anyway?
How do they say it?
cash
There's two:
"cache" in french (pronounced like cash) meaning "cover" (I think? I only had 2 semesters of French in highschool).
"caché" (pronounced something like "cash-ay" using English sounds, though somewhat different using actual french ones) meaning "hidden" or "secret"
I've been interested in etymology ever since I started reading the dictionary and it's still unclear which of these the English word is based on. When I say "hard drive cache" I pronounce it like "cash" but when I say "secret cache" I pronounce it "cash-ay".
I'd actually very much like a French linguist to weigh in on the differences in the French words "cache" and "caché".
I remember playing runescape and having my friend inform me that I had been saying "melee" wrong the whole time. I know there are some other similar events but I can't remember any off the top of my head.
Yeah some people say "mealy". That's another French word English stole borrowed.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse ****. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll
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There's two:
"cache" in french (pronounced like cash) meaning "cover" (I think? I only had 2 semesters of French in highschool).
"caché" (pronounced something like "cash-ay" using English sounds, though somewhat different using actual french ones) meaning "hidden" or "secret"
“Cacher” is the French verb for “to hide”. “Caché” is the past participle. A “cache” (feminine) is a hiding place (this is the one which got adopted into English), whereas a “cache” (masculine) is a mask.
When I say "hard drive cache" I pronounce it like "cash" but when I say "secret cache" I pronounce it "cash-ay".
The second pronunciation is incorrect. These should both be pronounced basically like “cash” in English.
Like I mentioned before, I think many people get confused with the English word cachet, meaning roughly respect/prestige (which also comes from the French verb “cacher”, but from a few hundred years ago when it used to also mean “to press”; when cachet came into English it referred to a stamp/seal on an official document).
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Never heard 'cache' until about 5 years ago. Until then thought it was pronounced 'kay-shh', rather than 'cash'. For shame.
Also learned 'expresso' is wrong, it's 'espresso', although I so rarely referred to it. Can't think of any others.
You guys, don't sweat it. English words are pronounced differently in different Commonwealth countries, and sometimes it is the colonials who have it 'right' (aka closer to how the Queen or some Oxford grammarian, rather than your average undereducated yob with his localized slang, would pronounce it). Also some of the descendant countries like Oz/ Nz have readings that are probably closer to their ancestors than how a modern Londoner (London has a majority of its population born outside the UK) would read it.
As far as I am concerned, English pronounce-ments are really about power and have always been. That's why some names in the UK have weird pronunciations, only because the local Lord or Peer wanted to be different and assert his superiority. Accepting someone's pronunciation as canon or authoritative means submitting to his jurisdiction for me.
It was also quite interesting to me, having many different English teachers aka from different parts of the UK in the past and then having studied in the US and interacted with 'native speakers' from Jamaica to South Africa and New Zealand, to observe their differences. I think being able to understand is more important than reading it 'correctly' because there will never be a 'correct' now that 1/4 of this planet is no longer ruled from one capital, answering only to one Queen. (Incidentally, Victoria's native language was German and she spoke English with an accent all her life. The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha only changed its name to Windsor because of World War 1. So at the height of the British Empire the Queen's English vould sounden lich...)
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Skip to 1:50 for pronunciations. ;)
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You guys, don't sweat it. English words are pronounced differently in different Commonwealth countries,
What is this “commonwealth” baloney? Also, the California accent is clearly the only correct one, dude. :P
That's why some names in the UK have weird pronunciations, only because the local Lord or Peer wanted to be different and assert his superiority.
What? Do you have an example? As far as I know all the weird UK pronunciations are just the local custom, and have nothing to do with some noble telling anyone what to do.
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I was working at a Montessori school and heard, multiple times, teachers and admins say "pronunciate" instead of "pronounce". That was a new one to me.
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I was working at a Montessori school and heard, multiple times, teachers and admins say "pronunciate" instead of "pronounce". That was a new one to me.
That’s not a word real people use. It’s one of those “trying too hard” mixups. In this case, I’m guessing a mishmash of “enunciate” and “pronounce”.
The other fun one is when people pronounce pronunciation like “pronounce-iation”.
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Exactly, that's why I was so shocked to hear it used by people teaching children.
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I know a lot of people who still say 'irregardless'
If we're going to get needlessly pedantic irregardless and regardless are two separate words that have same meaning irrespective of which one you use.
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^that's flatout wrong, as the prefix is completely redundant. though it would be hilarious if this word were to go the way of 'literally' - misused to the point of being accepted by the culture at large
while we're on the topic on mixups, what are some words that are pronounced correctly in real life, but often misspelled online? i know there's a bunch, but the only one that comes to mind right now is per se - often wrongly written as per say. this isn't counting commonly committed grammar atrocities like it's/its and then/than. it's ****ing 2014 people, there's really no excuse to be that stupid
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it's ****ing 2014 people, there's really no excuse to be that stupid
All sorts of people are on the internet: children, foreigners just learning the language, folks who are barely literate through no fault of their own, etc. There are plenty of reasons someone might make a grammatical mistake; being stupid is seldom the reason, and honest mistakes need no excuses. In general, humans are pretty damn clever, even the ones unfamiliar with literary culture. It’s entirely unhelpful in almost every circumstance to berate or insult someone for making a mistake.
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i said it mostly in jest, but you wouldn't believe the number of extremely smart people who still makes these elementary mistakes
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Well, at least try gentle correction the first couple times. If they keep ****ing the language up after that, you can always resort to hitting them in the shins with a baseball bat until they get it.
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Niche.
I still don't know how to say it.
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Niche. I still don't know how to say it.
Like nich. Rhymes with itch or pitch or stitch. The original meaning is some little nook in the wall, like those spots saints fit in in Catholic churches. Comes from the French verb for birds making a nest. So lots of people pronounce it as a French word, like neesh. This is silly and unnecessary; it’s been a word in English for centuries.
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Well, at least try gentle correction the first couple times. If they keep ****ing the language up after that, you can always resort to hitting them in the shins with a baseball bat until they get it.
i don't bother, some of those people are literally twice my age and extremely intelligent. it's just strangely irritating to see them write an otherwise perfect post/essay and have one or two grammar mistakes like those i described, sticking out like a sore thumb
btw i always called it 'neesh'. from what i know both are accepted pronunciations, though 'nitch' is definitely the more commonly used of the two
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Coupon = koo-pon not kyou-pon
Just think of coup = koo or coupe = koop or troupe = troop...
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Coupon = koo-pon not kyou-pon
This is just regional dialect variation.
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The second is incorrect regardless of whether it's regional or not.
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i said it mostly in jest, but you wouldn't believe the number of extremely smart people who still makes these elementary mistakes
I stick with irregardless because it's more fun to say. Most of my language choices are made by my face.
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Irregardless is wrong because it's a double negative.
"I don't have no money" is a double negative. "I don't have any money" is correct.
Irregardless is like saying "I don't have no regard" as opposed to "I have no regard" which is correct.
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I don't get why double negatives are so frowned upon in English.
They're all over the place in other languages.
Language isn't math.
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I ain't got no idea, but that's the way it is. ;)
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Niche.
I still don't know how to say it.
Yeah idk why Americans say it nitch... there is no T in it lol
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English is a weird and hard language. And like jacobolus pointed out, there are regional variations that make it even harder sometimes. I spent my childhood saying "unthaw" instead of "thaw" because that's what my Grandmother would say.
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I ain't got no idea, but that's the way it is. ;)
It's just one of those things, like splitting infinitives.
We're taught not to do them, and to act as if we're confused by them, but no one actually is.
It's silly.
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Rules is rules. You if understand might, but not otherwise.
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Rules is rules. You if understand might, but not otherwise.
Now you're just being a butt ;)
I ain't sayin' all rules are dumb, but some just seem to exist to give Grammar Nazis something to do, and don't affect comprehension one way or the other.
I've always been a 'as long as we understand each other, go nuts' sort of English speaker.
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Yeah idk why Americans say it nitch... there is no T in it lol
Americans (and other English speakers; there’s not much difference between most English dialects in this case) don’t say it as “nitch”, they say it as “nich”, precisely rhyming with “lich”, “rich”, or “which”. The sound here is a glottal stop, not a “t”. It’s just that words ending in -tch like hitch, pitch, witch, glitch, itch, etc. are pronounced in approximately the same way, because often the “t” sound in those words is often mostly or entirely replaced by the glottal stop.
As Wikipedia puts it: “Standard English inserts a glottal stop before a tautosyllabic voiceless stop, e.g. sto’p, tha’t, kno’ck, wa’tch, also lea’p, soa’k, hel’p, pin’ch.”
And also: “In many accents of English, voiceless stops [...] are glottalized. This may be heard either as a glottal stop preceding the oral closure ("pre-glottalization" or "glottal reinforcement") or as a substitution of the glottal stop [ʔ] for the oral stop (glottal replacement). Pre-glottalization normally occurs in British and American English when the voiceless consonant phoneme is followed by another consonant or when the consonant is in final position. Thus football and catching are often pronounced [ˈfʊʔtbɔːl] and [ˈkæʔtʃɪŋ], respectively. Glottal replacement often happens in cases such as those just given, so that football is frequently pronounced [ˈfʊʔbɔːl].”
I suppose you might sometimes get the reverse situation, where people insert an explicit “t” sound into the way they say “niche”, “lich”, “rich”, or “which”, just to make it consistent with similarly pronounced words that do have a t in them. This is non-standard though, and I don’t think it’s too common.
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I don't think it's necessary to correct someone in casual conversation, but I do think it's crucial that someone learning the language be given the best opportunity to understand the rules. If this wasn't a thread about grammar then I would gladly keep my mouth shut.
I don't like grammar Nazis either. It's usually not necessary or appropriate to correct others, but if that person is a child or ESL it may help that person.
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Yeah idk why Americans say it nitch... there is no T in it lol
Americans (and other English speakers; there�s not much difference between most English dialects in this case) don�t say it as �nitch�, they say it as �nich�, precisely rhyming with �lich�, �rich�, or �which�. The sound here is a glottal stop, not a �t�. It�s just that words ending in -tch like hitch, pitch, witch, glitch, itch, etc. are pronounced in approximately the same way, because often the �t� sound in those words is often mostly or entirely replaced by the glottal stop.
As Wikipedia puts it: �Standard English inserts a glottal stop before a tautosyllabic voiceless stop, e.g. sto�p, tha�t, kno�ck, wa�tch, also lea�p, soa�k, hel�p, pin�ch.�
And also: �In many accents of English, voiceless stops [...] are glottalized. This may be heard either as a glottal stop preceding the oral closure ("pre-glottalization" or "glottal reinforcement") or as a substitution of the glottal stop [ʔ] for the oral stop (glottal replacement). Pre-glottalization normally occurs in British and American English when the voiceless consonant phoneme is followed by another consonant or when the consonant is in final position. Thus football and catching are often pronounced [ˈfʊʔtbɔːl] and [ˈk�ʔtʃɪŋ], respectively. Glottal replacement often happens in cases such as those just given, so that football is frequently pronounced [ˈfʊʔbɔːl].�
I suppose you might sometimes get the reverse situation, where people insert an explicit �t� sound into the way they say �niche�, �lich�, �rich�, or �which�, just to make it consistent with similarly pronounced words that do have a t in them. This is non-standard though, and I don�t think it�s too common.
I'm sure your right and that all that makes sense, but when I watch UK TV shows and/or the BBC news (usually the 'go to' for pronunciation) they say 'neesh' and on American TV shows that I watch they say nitch...
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That's why some names in the UK have weird pronunciations, only because the local Lord or Peer wanted to be different and assert his superiority.
What? Do you have an example? As far as I know all the weird UK pronunciations are just the local custom, and have nothing to do with some noble telling anyone what to do.
I've heard that English was influenced by nobility and the influential, too, although not sure about the 'telling them to' part. Certainly place and food names being changed to French versions for one, but also accent variations that became the norm due to those places being the central hub of the wealthy.
The latter was touched on in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_NcleoHhRg) by a Germanic languages expert and former teacher, that was explaining a Youtuber Let's Player's English accent, going back centuries and describing the vowel shifts that occurred between American and British English.
Yeah idk why Americans say it nitch... there is no T in it lol
Not about the word 'Niche' per se, but another video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJmHuNPclMQ) by the same person above was made about the proper pronunciation of 'Lich', such as found in fantasy books, which is pronounced 'Litch'. Fascinating break down, and really went into depth about the history of such words. Still, in this case 'neesh' and 'nitch' are both correct pronunciations.
He made a series of videos explaining both the history and correct ways of saying various words the Youtube LP'er 'Gopher' had asked about, including Is Swimmable A Word? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ7v5nFjFPQ), Cacti or Cactuses? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpB-gZXTNnM), and the pronunciation of 'Shaman' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SXBimiGqzE).
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"I don't have no money" is a double negative. "I don't have any money" is correct.
isn't "i ain't got no money" a proper version?
and the pronunciation of 'Shaman' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SXBimiGqzE).
i don't even want to know how you guys pronounce "sastrugi".
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How bout German people trying to say squirrel? :))
how about the french? SKUEEWELL
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I'm hoping that was a joke iri, but I also remember that you are Russian. So, I'm not sure if you are cereal - super cereal.
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I'm hoping that was a joke iri
it was
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@Dorkvader - I was not saying that "banal" means timid, I meant that the word itself is timid in comparison to what I had previously thought about it, both in meaning and pronunciation.
Living just outside Atlanta, I am surprised when people pronounce the "r" on the end of it.
And how about those French-speakers who pronounce the city Detroit as something like "day-twa"?
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ribosome. I thought it was rib-osome, not rye-bosome?!
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I'm sure your right and that all that makes sense, but when I watch UK TV shows and/or the BBC news (usually the 'go to' for pronunciation) they say 'neesh' and on American TV shows that I watch they say nitch...
I think you’re missing my point. The typical pronunciation of this word in American English is “nich”, not “nitch”. There’s no “t” sound, just a glottal stop.
English speakers have been pronouncing “niche” has “nich” for hundreds of years; the “neesh” thing is a recent change by people who want to sound fancy. I suspect that the pronunciation change has to do with English people who identify as “cultured” wishing they could be living in Paris enjoying palatable food and good art and so on, instead of dreary England. :P
More seriously, this is a kind of interesting blog post about pronunciation in England vs. America of various words borrowed from French: http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2006/08/pronouncing-french-words-and-names.html
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There’s no “t” sound, just a glottal stop.
Huh? How do you pronounce "rich" without the 't' sound?
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There’s no “t” sound, just a glottal stop.
Huh? How do you pronounce "rich" without the 't' sound?
Well I’m not an expert here, but in my experience I feel like in some dialects there’s a subtle difference between “ch” and “tch” sounds (so that e.g. witch and which sound slightly different), while in other dialects they’re pronounced identically.
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suite, crazy what an "e" can change ._.
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There’s no “t” sound, just a glottal stop.
Huh? How do you pronounce "rich" without the 't' sound?
Well I’m not an expert here, but in my experience I feel like in some dialects there’s a subtle difference between “ch” and “tch” sounds, while in other dialects they’re pronounced identically.
This is what I've observed as well. The "tch" sound would have a slightly higher-pitched sound to it as you ever-so-slightly add the 't' in. But functionally, you could pronounce them exactly the same and no one would care.
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I hate when people try to write the French word voilá and write it as "wa-la" or similar.
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I hate when people try to write the French word voilá and write it as "wa-la" or similar.
That would be "voilà". ;D
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I hate when people try to write the French word voil� and write it as "wa-la" or similar.
That would be "voil�". ;D
;D
I remember going to steakhouse and ordering a tournedos (Tour-nuh-d�oh) with fries once. The waitress was looking at me with an empty look on her face until I pointed it out on the menu. Then she happily exclaimed "Ah, you mean Tornados! Comin' right up!" I was flabbergasted...
I was taught British English at school but since pretty much every form of media comes from the US with subtitles I ended up with a strange mix of American/British English.
Still think that the English language needs more commas though. Makes **** a lot easier to read.
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Still think that the English language needs more commas though. Makes **** a lot easier to read.
People over-use commas so much in written word, it's a little crazy. :P They'll tend to put commas wherever they might pause in speech, despite that not necessarily being the rule in written word. It's not quite wrong to do that, but it makes it confusing and clunky in a lot of cases, and ends up splitting thoughts that shouldn't be split.
/me wishes there were fewer commas he had to read in his day. :-[
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Huh, apparently the Oxford English Dictionary recommended the “nich” pronunciation of niche as recently as 1988. So its re-Frenchification in England is even more recent than I thought.
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Still think that the English language needs more commas though. Makes **** a lot easier to read.
I totally agree. My ancestral homeplace was Oxford, and I think that multiple commas in most sentences would clear up the meanings of a great deal of written work, as well as making it flow more like spoken English, as it should.
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Still think that the English language needs more commas though. Makes **** a lot easier to read.
I totally agree. My ancestral homeplace was Oxford, and I think that multiple commas in most sentences would clear up the meanings of a great deal of written work, as well as making it flow more like spoken English, as it should.
This man gets it.
People over-use commas so much in written word, it's a little crazy. :P They'll tend to put commas wherever they might pause in speech, despite that not necessarily being the rule in written word. It's not quite wrong to do that, but it makes it confusing and clunky in a lot of cases, and ends up splitting thoughts that shouldn't be split.
/me wishes there were fewer commas he had to read in his day. :-[
(this one would be wrong though, 'And' already serves the role of splitting up the sentence. :P )
Dutch is my native language and ,similarly to German, there are a lot more commas used in the written language than in English.
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(this one would be wrong though, 'And' already serves the role of splitting up the sentence. :P )
Dutch is my native language and ,similarly to German, there are a lot more commas used in the written language than in English.
Actually all four of the commas in his comment were wrong (according to modern conventions of formal written English). It was a joke; the whole point was to demonstrate ways that people use commas where they shouldn’t when writing according to modern standards.
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(this one would be wrong though, 'And' already serves the role of splitting up the sentence. :P )
Dutch is my native language and ,similarly to German, there are a lot more commas used in the written language than in English.
Actually all four of the commas in his comment were wrong (according to modern conventions of formal written English). That was the whole point of them.
:'(
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Relevant:
(http://i.imgur.com/6qPWNt6.png)
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this word of french origins is pronounced exactly like its spelt, cul-de-sac
thought to myself they are on to something here then
realized this is also a word of french origins-> receipt :rolleyes:
Technically you are not supposed to pronounce the l of "Cul".
Technically, IMO the l of "cul" must be pronounced.
How would the plural form sound? cus-de-sac kuhlz-duh-sak
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this word of french origins is pronounced exactly like its spelt, cul-de-sac
thought to myself they are on to something here then
realized this is also a word of french origins-> receipt :rolleyes:
Technically you are not supposed to pronounce the l of "Cul".
Technically, IMO the l of "cul" must be pronounced.
How would the plural form sound? cus-de-sac kuhlz-duh-sak
Confirming _PixelNinja words :
you don't pronounce the "l" in cul-de-sac , and the plural form will sound the same , but you shouldn't find it without a pronoun ahead :
le cul-de-sac
les culs-de-sac .
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.
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I always thought mayonnaise was pronounced may-yo-naze, but turns out it's actually pronounced mio de noche (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAQmCNWJHb8)
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I always thought mayonnaise was pronounced may-yo-naze, but turns out it's actually pronounced mio de noche (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAQmCNWJHb8)
s-o-c-k-s
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I always thought mayonnaise was pronounced may-yo-naze, but turns out it's actually pronounced mio de noche (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAQmCNWJHb8)
And Chipotle is pronounced "Shahntoodle". :))
I love those videos.