geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Elocutive on Wed, 19 November 2014, 21:46:29
-
I have been around here for a couple of months now, and the switch I know the least about is likely alps. Yet whenever there is a topic about alps, I always hear, "blue alps are the best!" and I really haven't heard much else. Are there some other switches that people like more in the alps department? Or is blue alps the undeclared victor?
-
I heard that there is a clicky mod that you can do for orange alps and someone did like them better.
-
I'd say that specifically, Monterey Blues (which are A blue alps) are considered the best Alps and among the finer switches. There are other Alps-type switches that are also blue though (such as the KPT-Alps), and there are white alps variants that are very similar.
-
Check out this post here for some more of my thoughts (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.msg1527147#msg1527147) but I really like these Alps:
- Complicated Green Alps (Not the Green XM Alps) = My 2nd favorite linear switch, ever.
- Matias Clicky = A wonderfully clicky Alps that is very close to Blue Alps but not quite as smooth. I think if you don't have an chance to get Blue Alps, you would be very happy with these. They felt the same as Gray Alps which are hard to find.
- Matias Quiet = An improved version of Cream Alps in my opinion. Smooth, nice tactile bump, fun cushiony bottom out.
- Complicated Orange Alps = My favorite tactile Alps switch.
Depending on the condition, Black Alps are very nice too. But of course, condition always matters with Alps so that's why the Matias Alps are so nice.
-
Are there quite Alps that feel like blue Alps?
-
I mean, it's always a preference thing, but yes lots of people seem to agree that Monterey blues are the best alps switches and some of the best switches period.
-
I heard that there is a clicky mod that you can do for orange alps and someone did like them better.
That was me. I prefer the tonality and tactile bump of click modded Orange Alps to Blue Alps.
Also, linear Green Alps are by far my favorite linear switch I have ever tried with regards to smoothness. I like the weight and bottoming out of Ghost Blacks a little better, but Green Alps are the best stock linear switch I have felt.
Cream Alps, while not my favorite, are also pretty nice. Black Alps usually suck to me. I'm also in the minority who absolutely hates White Alps.
I also feel that Matias Alps are inferior to feel of vintage Alps, but would take clicky Matias Alps over White Alps.
I mean, it's always a preference thing, but yes lots of people seem to agree that Monterey blues are the best alps switches and some of the best switches period.
They're some of the smoothest, but they're too light for me and always seem to be on absolutely horribly boards. It's like dropping a Porsche engine in a Ford Taurus.
-
Depending on the condition, Black Alps are very nice too. But of course, condition always matters with Alps so that's why the Matias Alps are so nice.
You know how folks seem to want to sell "I typed a few phrases on rubberdomes and now it's mushy" - well BS depending on the board but Black Alps truly live up to this myth. You really need to buy them brand new and maybe they will be good for a while but I've found they deteriorate quite quickly after a few months.
For whatever reason - the Black Alps in the Wang 724 seem to stay 'fresher' than the Dell AT101 longer.
-
For my Alps-transplant projects, I have used blue and orange to replace whatever originals I did not like.
I don't like linear switches, but there is something to be said for non-clicky tactiles, and orange is the best.
One nice thing about doing a switch transplant project is that if you don't have enough switches to replace the entire set, complicated whites make a good stand-in for blue, and black can stand in for orange on the lesser-used keys, and you will hardly know the difference.
People refer to SMK "Monterey" switches as "Alps" or clones but while the key caps are interchangeable, the switches are not. Otherwise we would be using a lot more of them for transplant projects.
-
Another vote here for orange Alps for an excellent tactile switch, although in a tactile/clicky switch, I also like Monterey blue Alps.
Overall, I like most Alps or "Alps-inspired" (e.g., Matias) switches better than Cherry mx switches. I don't understand the economic forces that pushed Alps aside to be replaced in most contemporary keyboards by Cherry mx. This problem is exacerbated by a lack of sources for Alps keycaps. For example, there are some new projects, such as the Matias 60 and Infinity 60 keyboard kit on Massdrop, where there is a choice of Alps (Matias) or Cherry mx switches. I think more people would choose Alps/Matias if there were sources for keycaps (especially dye-sub PBT or doubleshot ABS).
My all-time favorite switches are IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) and Topre 55g, but I would put various Alps switches in my second tier.
-
I think more people would choose Alps/Matias if there were sources for keycaps (especially dye-sub PBT or doubleshot ABS).
There are sources, I listed some in your Alps keycap thread. But the problem is, the MOQs are quite high and there doesn't seem to be a lot of demand for them. For example, the Delta Blues Alps SP buy only has 60 votes. I'm not sure what the threshold is for buys to tip on the SP site but that doesn't seem very promising.
I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing.
-
clicker blue alps is not clone?
-
clicker blue alps is not clone?
I may not understand your question, but Alps made "complicated" blue switches in the late 1980s that were tactile and clicky. SMK made a "non-clone" switch that was similar in look and feel, but lighter in touch and color, with interchangeable key caps but not pins, for a short while in Taiwan.
-
I think more people would choose Alps/Matias if there were sources for keycaps (especially dye-sub PBT or doubleshot ABS).
There are sources, I listed some in your Alps keycap thread. But the problem is, the MOQs are quite high and there doesn't seem to be a lot of demand for them. For example, the Delta Blues Alps SP buy only has 60 votes. I'm not sure what the threshold is for buys to tip on the SP site but that doesn't seem very promising.
I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing.
Yes, I probably should have qualified my statement to indicate "more" sources or lower MOQs, etc.
I definitely agree that we have a classic chicken-egg dilemma!
On a more positive note, recently I sent an inquiry to Matias.ca and today I got a reply. They will be selling ABS keycaps on the Matias site soon. In addition, if they sell enough Matias 60% keyboards in the Group Buy, there will be PBT keycaps available for the Matias 60%, which could also be used on the top 4 rows of other Matias/Alps keyboards.
-
I think blue ALPS are my favorite switch. Theres some linear ALPS or ALPS-like switch at my work that are like butter. They're even much smoother than my vintage MX blacks and I really wish I could get one.
-
I am about to get Blue ALPS in perhaps a week or so.
I will give my input then
-
Just make sure you get blue ALPS and not Monterey blues.
-
Just make sure you get blue ALPS and not Monterey blues.
Havn't tried Blue Alps but Monterey Blues hare pretty heavenly. My second favorite switch behind BS.
-
Just make sure you get blue ALPS and not Monterey blues.
Havn't tried Blue Alps but Monterey Blues hare pretty heavenly. My second favorite switch behind BS.
Did we try the same Monerey blues? The ones I tried felt almost waterlogged, it was awful.
-
i am all over the place.............blue alps, orange and even green.
i am back and forth, but saying all that "blue alps" are pretty special
-
Just make sure you get blue ALPS and not Monterey blues.
Havn't tried Blue Alps but Monterey Blues hare pretty heavenly. My second favorite switch behind BS.
Did we try the same Monerey blues? The ones I tried felt almost waterlogged, it was awful.
The way you describe them sounds like something different entirely or you had really bad condition switches. The best way I can describe them is like cherry blues but lighter, more tactile and a lighter sounding click. Also for what its worth, I'm not a fan of linear switches. At least alps black and yellow.
-
Just make sure you get blue ALPS and not Monterey blues.
Havn't tried Blue Alps but Monterey Blues hare pretty heavenly. My second favorite switch behind BS.
Did we try the same Monerey blues? The ones I tried felt almost waterlogged, it was awful.
The way you describe them sounds like something different entirely or you had really bad condition switches. The best way I can describe them is like cherry blues but lighter, more tactile and a lighter sounding click. Also for what its worth, I'm not a fan of linear switches. At least alps black and yellow.
Considering the keyboard was almost NIB, I seriously doubt that the switches were screwed...
-
Considering the keyboard was almost NIB, I seriously doubt that the switches were screwed...
SMK blue "Monterey" switches are light and exquisitely tactile and clicky. Almost everyone loves them.
-
I mean, it's always a preference thing, but yes lots of people seem to agree that Monterey blues are the best alps switches and some of the best switches period.
I'd say that specifically, Monterey Blues (which are A blue alps) are considered the best Alps and among the finer switches.
although in a tactile/clicky switch, I also like Monterey blue Alps.
Folks: SMK made these switches, they have nothing to do with Alps beyond the keycap mount. They therefore can’t be the “best Alps switches”.
The name “Monterey” comes from showing up in some keyboards made by Monterey, since the switches are otherwise unbranded.
Anyhow, I like SMK switches quite a bit, both the clicky and tactile types, and regardless of keycap mount. The clicky MX-mount version is fairly similar to the clicky Alps-mount version. Also, remove the click leaf and you get a pretty nice linear switch.
Blue-slider complicated Alps switches (i.e. early SKCMAG switches; “blue Alps”) are also really nice. They don’t feel or sound too much like SMK switches.
-
I mean, it's always a preference thing, but yes lots of people seem to agree that Monterey blues are the best alps switches and some of the best switches period.
I'd say that specifically, Monterey Blues (which are A blue alps) are considered the best Alps and among the finer switches.
although in a tactile/clicky switch, I also like Monterey blue Alps.
Folks: SMK made these switches, they have nothing to do with Alps beyond the keycap mount. They therefore can’t be the “best Alps switches”.
The name “Monterey” comes from showing up in some keyboards made by Monterey, since the switches are otherwise unbranded.
TIL
-
Yet whenever there is a topic about alps, I always hear, "blue alps are the best!" and I really haven't heard much else. Are there some other switches that people like more in the alps department? Or is blue alps the undeclared victor?
I personally like most of the Alps switches I’ve tried from ~1985–1989, including green [linear], blue & amber [clicky], ivory & brown & orange [tactile] switches. The ivory ones are a little bit too light and not tactile enough for my taste, whereas the brown ones are too heavy for heavy daily use for me. Both blue and amber switches are really nice, very smooth and a nice click, with the amber switches being both stiffer and more tactile than the blue ones. Orange switches are probably in between those in terms of force, also great to type on. Personally I’m not a big fan of linear switches, but I could definitely see myself typing on green Alps switches, especially with the addition of a solenoid for some click. They’re exactly the right spring weight for a linear switch.
I still like the Alps switches from ~1990–1993 but not quite as much, after the switch to the short switch plates. These include yellow [linear], white [clicky], salmon & green & black [tactile], cream [dampened]. I find them not quite as smooth or even, and most types are slightly too stiff for my taste. White and tactile green switches are probably my favorites of this bunch.
The Alps switches from after 1994 aren’t as nice, IMO. You can pick those out by the lack of little “slits” in the top housing. I believe they were still making yellow, white, green, black, and dampened white (they gave up on the cream color apparently) switches for another couple years.
Alps’s keyboard switch department really got battered by Apple switching to rubber dome keyboards in the mid-1990s. I believe Apple had previously been their biggest customer, and then stopped ordering switches fairly abruptly. Within a few years, everyone else had also stopped ordering mechanical switches, and Alps got out of the game entirely.
I’m not sure if Alps themselves ever made “simplified Alps” (“SKBM”) switches themselves, or if that was Fuhua (Forward Electronics) from the start. I believe Alps did do the design work for those switches, which are basically an inferior reduced-cost mechanism compared to the earlier “complicated” switches.
I quite like some Alps clones, including the still-available Matias switches. Matias was ordering “simplified Alps” switches from Fuhua for a few years, but at some point Fuhua decided to get out of the business, so Edgar Matias took the design, tweaked it, and went to a bunch of Chinese manufacturers for parts and assembly, and managed to resurrect a switch that’s in my opinion better than many of the switches Alps / Fuhua made. It has a really fantastic click or tactile leaf IMO, which results in a smooth and definite click. Like other switches based on the simplified Alps design, it does suffer from a bit of a wobble, and makes a slightly different click when you press the slider/keycap from different angles. Also, I wish they’d slightly reduce the force of the spring. But overall I think they’re great switches, and they’re cheap with good availability, and Matias (both the man and the company) are very responsive and friendly Canadians. The clear housing should make it possible for keyboards to use surface-mount RGB LEDs, for those folks who need blinky lights.
-
I've only been able to try blue alps and I really liked them which was surprising because I'm not a fan of clicky switches other than buckling spring. Also I read this whole thread and I can't wait until I'm able to try more Alps switches.
-
I just got my blue alps keyboard today which was surprising because I expected shipping to take forever as per usual.
First thing: Blue alps are AMAZING! These things are clicky, but somehow they remain smooth as butter. There is barely any sign of a bump on the upstroke and it really feels like you're typing on a machine with these things. They have a very nice and deep click to them
Second: They are very light. Maybe It's because I have been using my SSK as my daily driver, but they are nice a light and my fingers feel really quite nimble
Thirdly: I managed to flip the spacebar on these which I wasn't able to do on my SSK. Brownie points for spacebar flipping capabilities.
I will go more in depth once I actually get a converter to use this keyboard.
-
I just got my blue alps keyboard today which was surprising because I expected shipping to take forever as per usual.
First thing: Blue alps are AMAZING! These things are clicky, but somehow they remain smooth as butter. There is barely any sign of a bump on the upstroke and it really feels like you're typing on a machine with these things. They have a very nice and deep click to them
Second: They are very light. Maybe It's because I have been using my SSK as my daily driver, but they are nice a light and my fingers feel really quite nimble
Thirdly: I managed to flip the spacebar on these which I wasn't able to do on my SSK. Brownie points for spacebar flipping capabilities.
I will go more in depth once I actually get a converter to use this keyboard.
Where did you buy your blue alps keyboard? I'm in the market for trying out a clicky alp but I can't really find blue alps anywhere.
-
I just got my blue alps keyboard today which was surprising because I expected shipping to take forever as per usual.
First thing: Blue alps are AMAZING! These things are clicky, but somehow they remain smooth as butter. There is barely any sign of a bump on the upstroke and it really feels like you're typing on a machine with these things. They have a very nice and deep click to them
Second: They are very light. Maybe It's because I have been using my SSK as my daily driver, but they are nice a light and my fingers feel really quite nimble
Thirdly: I managed to flip the spacebar on these which I wasn't able to do on my SSK. Brownie points for spacebar flipping capabilities.
I will go more in depth once I actually get a converter to use this keyboard.
Where did you buy your blue alps keyboard? I'm in the market for trying out a clicky alp but I can't really find blue alps anywhere.
intelli78 was clearing out some of his stuff and he had a fully functional blue alps board so I snagged it. Shipping was a *****, but it was worth it.
-
I personally like the Matias ALPS-alike switch because it's something I can rely on. They feel *comparable* with a quality vintage switch, but you can get them brand new in any quantity you want, without the hassle of desoldering, for less money than new MX switches.
Vintage switches are apt to be wildly inconsistent-- can you find a new-old-stock board you like? Or will you have to deal with a board with ten years of hard use on it? Even if you say "I'll do a switch transplant" you have the same problem unless you're going to great lengths to acquire a stash of quality new or near-new salvaged switches.
However, it has also taught me that switches alone are only part of the puzzle. I get a different sound and slightly different feel out of the AT101W, as with a Ducky 1008XM using the exact same type. The latter has a paper-thin plate, and that likely impacts resonance and feel.