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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: sixty on Fri, 24 July 2009, 13:35:11

Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: sixty on Fri, 24 July 2009, 13:35:11
I don't know if you guys had already spotted this over at Diatec, and I don't know how longs its been up there.. did a quick serach here and found nothing. So here it goes:

(http://www.diatec.co.jp/image_prod/FKB108ZJW-AB_01.jpg)

This is the Filco Majestouch Zero 108 in white - it uses real black ALPS. The website puts extra attention to that:

(http://www.diatec.co.jp/image_prod/FKB108ZJW-AB_03.jpg)

The website says that his product is a limited production run and will only be sold online, not in/to retail shops or other vendors. I am assuming they found some leftover black ALPS stock somewhere and came up with these. Nice.

It comes at a nice 7,480 yen (around 79 USD), and is still available at the Diatec online shop (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=532) with instant shipping.

Now if only it wasn't for the exclusive Japanese layout I would probably be grabbing one of these.

However I figured some of you ALPS people might still be interested in this.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 24 July 2009, 14:46:03
You can make your own - all you need is a Filco Zero, a Dell AT, a soldering iron and a bucketload of patience :P
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: huha on Fri, 24 July 2009, 18:30:43
You could also just buy an AT102DW.

-huha
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 24 July 2009, 18:34:32
Wouldnt be Tenkeyless (I was refering to the US layout Filco zero, not the keyboard above.)

To be honest, Alps aren't nearly nice enough to justify that effort. Then again, some people love them so maybe it's good for them.

Another thing in regards the "real Alps" - theyre probably the simplified ones.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: huha on Fri, 24 July 2009, 18:39:40
Quote from: ch_123;104189
Wouldnt be Tenkeyless (I was refering to the US layout Filco zero, not the keyboard above.)

To be honest, Alps aren't nearly nice enough to justify that effort. Then again, some people love them so maybe it's good for them.

Another thing in regards the "real Alps" - theyre probably the simplified ones.


I got my AT102DW for next to nothing--normal German layout, black Alps, Windows keys. NIB. They do pop up on ebay from time to time and as noone really knows them, they're cheap.

-huha
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 24 July 2009, 18:48:20
Well, nobody not from around here at least... I remember around Christmas there was a guy over in the States selling them for $5 a piece, brand new in their box.

Irrespective of my personal opinion of the Alps, they're a great starter board for people who want to try out mechanical boards - cheap and easily available.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: huha on Fri, 24 July 2009, 18:52:25
I paid EUR 1 + shipping for mine IIRC.

I'll be the heretic and say I like black Alps more than MX browns. Browns are light linears with disturbing tactility. Light linears might be cool, but the tactility of browns just annoys me. Doesn't feel smooth if you push through them anyway.

-huha
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: zwmalone on Fri, 24 July 2009, 18:53:02
The Zero Tenkeyless advertisement also showed ALPS marked switches, and we all know they're fake simplified.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 24 July 2009, 19:41:15
I think the XM switches, and whatever it is that the ABS M1 uses are lisenced copies, but aren't as good quality (issues with smoothness, also the copies don't last as long)

Odds are that if you like blue cherries, you won't like black Alps, they're kinda the antithesis of eachother. Blue Cherries are nice and bouncy, black Alps are 'clunk and freefall'
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 24 July 2009, 20:01:14
Quote from: ch_123;104158
You can make your own - all you need is a Filco Zero, a Dell AT, a soldering iron and a bucketload of patience :P


been there, done that : ) and will be doing it again.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 24 July 2009, 20:15:31
Quote from: ripster;104223
Addicted to solder fumes eh....

Show Image
(http://rlv.zcache.com/get_real_be_rational_mug-p1686559540598628923mm9_400.jpg)


actually, no : ) it IS tedious work and time consuming but its worth it for me. I don't see a whole lot of love here for the black alps switches which is cool and all. But I am digging them. Anyone want a NIB model m mini?
I got 2 of them : )
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 24 July 2009, 20:27:59
Quote from: ripster;104223
Addicted to solder fumes eh....

Anyway, I think calling them fake is totally confusing and arises from some poor asian translation.  That's what shipping today so everybody should let go of the past - need something more descriptive of the Simplified Alps differences like the Cherry switches have - like Brown vs Blue Cherries.  We don't go around calling the latest Cherry switches fakes.

The system is complicated, but it makes sense. Fake Alps are not made by Alps, but an assortment of different Chinese companies, so your Cherry switch analogy doesn't really work there. There are fake Cherrys however, the SMKs being the obvious example, but there's some keyboards that use copies that you'd really have to know what you were looking for in order to spot them. Unlike the Alps though, they don't seem to be as common, which is why you don't hear as much about them as the fake Alps.

The simplified vs complicated thing came around as a consequence of Alps changing around the design of their switches over the years to cut down on cost (which had an adverse affect on quality from what I can gather). As a consequence, the parts of simple and complicated Alps are not interchangable. As far as I know, the parts of new Cherrys and old ones are interchangable, as they haven't changed the design much over the years.

Quote
Sure, I'll swap them for two NIB Dells with Black Alps. Deal?

I can offer one almost NIB Dell for one of your Minis :P
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: bigpook on Fri, 24 July 2009, 20:29:22
Quote from: webwit;104226
Sure, I'll swap them for two NIB Dells with Black Alps. Deal?


: ) right
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: o2dazone on Fri, 24 July 2009, 22:32:22
Quote from: ripster;104223
Addicted to solder fumes eh....

Anyway, I think calling them fake is totally confusing and arises from some poor asian translation.  That's what shipping today so everybody should let go of the past - need something more descriptive of the Simplified Alps differences like the Cherry switches have - like Brown vs Blue Cherries.  We don't go around calling the latest Cherry switches fakes.

Show Image
(http://rlv.zcache.com/get_real_be_rational_mug-p1686559540598628923mm9_400.jpg)


(http://o2dazone.com/y/viewImage.php?id=cde59acec15448ef4e6f96f87936cac3)
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Fri, 24 July 2009, 22:36:57
let's say it's not real, can't they just print that on the casing of the switch if they wanted to?
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 25 July 2009, 08:28:28
Quote from: ripster;104251
Or are we saying only Old Skool Alps are worthy and anything after 1999 (or whatever) is not worth looking at?  Including modern Alps manufactured switches and the variant?  I also think that's a bit harsh since the ABS M1 and Filco Zero can't be that bad, especially compared to other $50 to $70 boards.


Well, alot of people take that attitude about buckling Springs... Then again, unlike Lexmarks/Unicomps, I've never seen someone say that they prefer the later Alps to the earlier ones.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 25 July 2009, 11:07:14
Well, I was more refering to the "cheap" Lexmarks like the 42H, which I believe Ripster said to be like a Unicomp.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 25 July 2009, 11:25:09
Quote from: ripster;104302
Well, so far nobody has shown me anything "cheap" about a 42H or a Unicomp other than some key molding defects that even IBM M's have to a lesser extent.  Sorry, but a smaller controller with a different connection mechanism is not a big deal in terms of a "keyboard experience".  Somebody can always open one up and prove me wrong.

If I remember correctly, you described the 42H as having "Unicomp innards" in regards to both the controller AND the keyboard assembly. No way that a different controller could make a keyboard 200g lighter. It's also in a different casing - you can tell from the lack of speaker grille. I'd be reasonably willing to bet that the quality of the plastic was changed. After all, you don't retool your machines just to get rid of a useless speaker grille...

Also, there's the email on webwit's post on this (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6013&highlight=42H1292) forum. That said, typing quality is probably not all that much different.
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Sat, 25 July 2009, 19:39:11
They're not going to be around forever they're not... I'll take eight! [/Zoidberg]
Title: Filco - FKB108Z/JW-AB (REAL black ALPS)
Post by: Qwertyuiop on Sun, 26 July 2009, 04:47:55
Quote
Well, so far nobody has shown me anything "cheap" about a 42H or a Unicomp other than some key molding defects that even IBM M's have to a lesser extent.

Well I certainly consider one-piece keycaps and non-removable cables, especially the flat-style on the later model Ms to be cheap compared to that 1391401, really annoying since those cables are too short for floor-mounted PCs in my opinion.

I don't have access to a 42H, only a 1993 52G. That one still has the housing with the speaker hole. I think it feels a little lighter in touch than my 1391401s but it might be my imagination. Now if I could just find somewhere to buy the right AMP SDL connector for the controller in the 52G I could have a removable cable on it...

I don't much like this Unicomp Customizer that I have to use because of the motherboard issues though...I find the "spring break" point ill-defined and the touch feels "rubbery" to me. This is one of the old all-black pre-ugly-logo Customizers in case that makes any difference. At least it's not the horror that brown Cherry switches were for me.