Here's a list (http://home.earthlink.net/~bazillion/resources.html) of spring manufactures sorted by County and State.
The specs for the IBM Model M springs are kinda here (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=104600&postcount=40) but don't quote me on the wire diameter part.
You'd also likely loose some of the sound, .
Your mind follows strange paths.
I'll try that sometime. While doing the rivet mod I managed to bend a spring over the barrel. It was so slight I didn't think it would matter but a slight bend basically rendered the spring useless - it wouldn't buckle! I ended up swapping springs using Sandy's method that you posted - I took one from my son't Unicomp ScrollLock. Those suckers are easy to put in but hard to pull out without bending.
can someone do rip-O-meter on the F? Is it really lighter than M? By at least 10g?
Edit: Caught up with the converstaion on the other thread. Apparently you'd need a longer barrel on the M to just swap springs.
But -- since its the longer spring of the F that is creating a softer feel -- what if:
d) You cut the M spring by a quarter inch, then stretch it to make it longer. Would that equal a softer M?
Also,
e) out of curiosity, how about putting in springs from other keyboards (like a black alps board) by stretching those springs? How would it feel?
thanks for the info CH. IIRC, the M's are about 65-70g, so I guess the F's are about 5g or so lighter then. I'd like to bring them down to 50g :)
My only real issue with the spring strength is the tendency to make one's fingers bounce too much in normal typing. What are the linear Cherry's force rating? That seems to be a pretty good strength.
(Of course that might be 50g, I'm not sure.)
Blue Cherries are 50g. Not too stiff, not too light. Might have something to do with it leading in the poll.
Is there a way to lighten the BS spring?
How about adding weights into the keycaps? Should give an interesting feel!
Thanks to this (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6490) thread (and an upcoming mod) I have a bucket of springs and keys to play around with. I'll see what I can come up with to test some of these ideas.
When you start to learn how to type light enough, the Cherrys help you out by pushing your finger back up off the key. The Alps only seemed to have enough force to push the key back up and that was about it.
Yep, that's what I'm feeling on this AT101W - it makes it feel at least as much work to type as a Buckling Spring if not more.
Cherry blacks start at 40g and finish at 80g
Ripster - how much do those coins weigh again?
I count 16... So you managed to raise the resistance to 80g?
Just as soon as you think you understand the Buckling Spring the thing gets all random on you
What do I do to make it softer?? No acid spring bath for me nosiree..... End up looking like Phantom of the Opera.
Your mind follows strange paths. I was thinking of a blowtorch on the springs but couldn't remember if that makes steel harder or softer. So then I found a WHOLE SITE dedicated to DIY springs (http://home.earthlink.net/~bazillion/intro.html) written in English no less. I started reading it before deciding I was going off the deep end.It's all there:
There are three basic principles in spring design:So we simply need to do the exact opposite of the above. Simple... or not.
* The heavier the wire, the stronger the spring.
* The smaller the coil, the stronger the spring.
* The more active coils, the less load you will have to apply in order to get it to move a certain distance.
Based on these general principles, you now know what to do to change the properties of a spring you already have. For instance, if you want to make automotive valve springs a little stronger than stock, you can a) go to a slightly heavier wire and keep the dimensions and coil count the same, b) decrease the diameter of the spring, keeping the wire size and coil count the same, or c) decrease the number of active coils, keeping the wire size and spring diameter the same. Naturally, you can also go to a stronger material to achieve the same result.
lol, thanks for the experiment, rippy! 80g, eh? hmmmm.
I'd stick mine under the coffee table but I only have one working M and I dont want to ruin it! Someone who has some spare boards will have to try....
I'll try the propane torch trick and throwing them into a preheated oven to cool down. If it work's I'll just fire up the Barbie (as the Aussies say) and do a couple hundred of them!
I plan to introduce Mr. Model M to Mr. Tablesaw this Friday
How about adding weights into the keycaps? Should give an interesting feel!
As my son loves to say, "Epic Fail". Just as soon as you think you understand the Buckling Spring the thing gets all random on you.
There are three basic principles in spring design:
* The heavier the wire, the stronger the spring.
* The smaller the coil, the stronger the spring.
* The more active coils, the less load you will have to apply in order to get it to move a certain distance.
Maybe my son and I will try samurai swords next.
Some people claim they can feel the difference in two piece keys versus one - I couldn't in my limited testing (although I will get another M Space Saving with two piecers so it'll be easier to tell).
I could definitely feel a difference between my Boscom and my Endurapro; the former does feature two-piece keycaps, but I'm not exactly sure if this makes for all the differences in feel.
-huha
Anybody have any luck finding a substitute online? Lots of springs out there. You can use one of my pics to count windings.
Here it is (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=104600&postcount=40) in inches.Indeed, if the wire diameter, spring size and coil count are the same, the only thing remaining is the spring material (or there was a measure error when looking at the wire diameter).
Unicomp oddly enough is exactly the same. Coil count too. May be a slightly different metal though. Other factor is the foot - different plastic - I need to do a more complete comparison there.
I got the impression from that DIY Spring site that most small springs are made of "music" steel. The same stuff in my guitar strings. Probably SOME variance though.
Yeah, I was going to comment on the cost. My $20 Boscom will net me 122 springs - that is the cheapest deal going if you wanted to renovate an old mushy M.
That can get rather expensive when you're replacing 101 springs, though.
I just took a few measurements of the springs from my 401.
Length : 18.5mm
OD : 2.75mm
ID : 2mm
Wire dia : .18mm (33 gauge)
Buckling point : 4.8mm compression @ 68g
As far as I could measure, the compression force seems to be fairly linear at about 15g/mm
Unless I screwed up the conversion (very possible) 15g/mm translates to about .83 lb/inch. Seems to be almost exactly what that spring you linked was rated.
Hmm..
http://www.leespring.com/uk_intro_LP_compression.asp
I sacrificed a Boscom and managed to sleep fine.
yes but was it your only begotten boscom? this is my only begotten model M, and I will have to forsake it, and it will be set upon and killed, verily.
Who knows, tearing it apart could motivate you to start working on your own mod!Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3561&stc=1&d=1249354549)
(Still a work in progress).
Indeed, looks promising. Now if you could make the cuts a) invisible and b) indestructible...
you could probably make it pretty undetectable if you fill the seam with caulk and paint over it.
I would use something harder like Bondo. That way you could sand it down and paint it a little easier. Caulk would be too rubbery, I think. The only thing that might be lacking with any method of filling and painting would be matching the texture of the original case. That could be a whole new mod (refinishing/rebuilding the case).
I'm using a 2 part epoxy putty. Give a bit of structural strength that Bondo doesn't.
Still a long way to go on it.