If you want tactile snap then Alps and Buckling Springs are your friends.
If you want tactile snap then Alps and Buckling Springs are your friends.
While I do not have any Alps boards I have tried CPTBadAss's Kingsaver with Blue (complicated i think) alps switches and they are LEAPS and BOUNDS above MX in terms of tactility and quality of the click.
Is there a chart that matches up relative tactile/clickiness/weight of the ALPS with the Cherry MX switches, so if I were to buy an ALPS keyboard, I know which switch to choose that's similar (but better) to the Cherry MX's counterpart?
The real question is whether you should skip Cherry in favor of Alps.
The real question is whether you should skip Cherry in favor of Alps.
Are ALPS similar enough in terms of feel to Cherry MX to be considered in one main category separate from Topre, buckling spring, etc? Or are they different enough that they really should be considered totally different categories?
As a casual collecter, I'd just get some kind of Apple Extended or Alps Bigfoot in good shape. These are significant pieces of keyboard history, relatively easy to use with modern systems, quite solid and equipped with very good keycaps and dampened Alps switches.
As a casual collecter, I'd just get some kind of Apple Extended or Alps Bigfoot in good shape. These are significant pieces of keyboard history, relatively easy to use with modern systems, quite solid and equipped with very good keycaps and dampened Alps switches.
As a casual collecter, I'd just get some kind of Apple Extended or Alps Bigfoot in good shape. These are significant pieces of keyboard history, relatively easy to use with modern systems, quite solid and equipped with very good keycaps and dampened Alps switches.
I'm not a collector though--I just want really good keyboards to write my novels on, and I want to have one keyboard of each major switch type so I can compare them. I might not keep all of them once I've made up my mind which I prefer the most. Also, form-factor is important. I can't stand full-sized keyboards due to the number pad pushing the mouse away and causing ergonomic problems. I only will consider TKL or smaller these days. The only full-size I allowed myself to get is the Unicomp Endurapro, since they don't make TKL sizes, and the Model M SSK breaks my rule of being out-of-production and without warranty.
I might consider the other Matias models like the Quiet Pro, Secure Pro, or Laptop Pro. The first two has PC versions, but I'm not sure if I want the quiet version, since some say it is slightly less tactile, while some say it feels the same only quieter. I don't know who to beleive.
As a casual collecter, I'd just get some kind of Apple Extended or Alps Bigfoot in good shape. These are significant pieces of keyboard history, relatively easy to use with modern systems, quite solid and equipped with very good keycaps and dampened Alps switches.
I'm not a collector though--I just want really good keyboards to write my novels on, and I want to have one keyboard of each major switch type so I can compare them. I might not keep all of them once I've made up my mind which I prefer the most. Also, form-factor is important. I can't stand full-sized keyboards due to the number pad pushing the mouse away and causing ergonomic problems. I only will consider TKL or smaller these days. The only full-size I allowed myself to get is the Unicomp Endurapro, since they don't make TKL sizes, and the Model M SSK breaks my rule of being out-of-production and without warranty.
I might consider the other Matias models like the Quiet Pro, Secure Pro, or Laptop Pro. The first two has PC versions, but I'm not sure if I want the quiet version, since some say it is slightly less tactile, while some say it feels the same only quieter. I don't know who to beleive.
ALPS are miles more tactile than cherry. "Slightly less" tactile is like saying "this rock is more grey than that rock"
It's not a huge difference.
As a casual collecter, I'd just get some kind of Apple Extended or Alps Bigfoot in good shape. These are significant pieces of keyboard history, relatively easy to use with modern systems, quite solid and equipped with very good keycaps and dampened Alps switches.Personally I find the dampened tactile Alps switches, like the ones on the AEK II or SGI keyboards, to be the least “Alpsy” of all Alps switches. The dampening makes it feel mushy, and I personally find it heavier than my preference. They’re roughly comparable IMO to Cherry MX clear.
How would you rate the difference in the level of tactile feel between the Tactile Pro's switch and the Quiet Pro's dampened switch (in percentages)? 10% difference? And compared to the Cherry MX's tactile switches?The feel is nearly identical until you get to the bottom out (which differs because one has squishy dampers at the bottom whereas the other is plastic hitting plastic), and substantially more tactile than any Cherry MX switch. The main difference is the sound (the clicky ones have a click from the leaf plus a “clack” from bottom-out, whereas the quiet ones are pretty quiet).
These can be found pretty inexpensively in Dell AT101 keyboards.
I also have KPT Alps which are quite heavy and super crunchy.
And, by the way, blue "Monterey" switches are SMK, not Alps.
And, by the way, blue "Monterey" switches are SMK, not Alps.
which is why they're avoiding my flaming hate in this thread
i'm gonna revisit them this week to see exactly how justified it is, since lot of people are questioning me
And, by the way, blue "Monterey" switches are SMK, not Alps.
which is why they're avoiding my flaming hate in this thread
i'm gonna revisit them this week to see exactly how justified it is, since lot of people are questioning me
KPT is a new one on me, I had never heard of it before!There are several switches from an unknown maker, labeled “KPT (http://deskthority.net/wiki/KPT_switch)”, “TEC (http://deskthority.net/wiki/TEC_switch)”, or entirely without branding (http://deskthority.net/wiki/KPT-like_switch). They have a click leaf very similar to Alps click leaves, but the contact mechanism is different. Since the switch housing is a different shape, and the pin locations are different, I wouldn’t suggest anyone call them “Alps” anything.
I’m guessing if Altis’s are “quite heavy and super crunchy” there’s a good chance the switches themselves are in bad condition (full of dirt).
They're all cleaned up! They don't feel gritty at all, just heavy with a very tactile click that ends up being more of a crunch. I'd say they're most similar to White Alps, but even crunchier. The build-up at the 'click' becomes very strong, then it snaps heavily when you break past it.Ah, okay. I didn’t know what you meant by “crunchy”. I wonder what you’d think of amber Omron switches.
I have a Cherry MX Brown board and I like Browns but after heavy use of my NMB board with black Hi-Tek switches, the Browns are feeling light. I also want a variety of boards, including Alps and MX Clears. Considering my current switches, if I were to buy only 1 board in the next year, can you guys make a recommendation regarding Matias Quiet Click or MX Clears (stock or modified)? Are Matias Quiet Click and Cherry MX Clear similar enough as to not justify spending $400 (or more) for 2 keyboards? Has anyone posted a comparison between Alps and Hi-Tek switches?
AEK, m0116, Wang boards including the 724, AT101W are all models that come to mind off the top of my head. Which boards do you have?
AEK II is PBT as well [...] Those do feel pretty good considering the lack of thickness to them.What do you mean? They’re quite thick, same as any Alps-made dyesubs (except the ones on the silly IBM P70 luggable, which are quite thin).
AEK II is PBT as well [...] Those do feel pretty good considering the lack of thickness to them.What do you mean? They�re quite thick, same as any Alps-made dyesubs (except the ones on the silly IBM P70 luggable, which are quite thin).
AEK, m0116, Wang boards including the 724, and AT101W are all models that come to mind off the top of my head. There are more which have PBT caps. Which boards do you have?
If you meant usable PBT caps for a normal ANSI layout, that'd be different and your statement would be more correct.
Depends on the model. Some AT101 are PBT, some are ABS.
Regarding Matias "Alps-inspired" switches, although I like them both, I prefer the Matias Click switch over the Matias Quiet switch. I like the aural feedback, and the feel of the keystroke seems better overall in the Click switch. In addition, I prefer the sound and feel of the Matias Click switches in my KBP V60 over the Matias Mini Tactile Pro keyboard. This preference might have something to do with the different case materials and different keycaps. The caps on my KBP V60-MTS-C include Matias black blanks for the mods and spacebar, and dye-sub PBT from an IBM 5140 for the alphanumeric keys.
(Attachment Link)
Ah I see. All the ones I've seen are PBT.
from my experiance of matias vs cherry the moat glaring difference is the actuation point of the matiases; they feel almost like membranes in that they dont have any travel before the tactile bump. Matiases feel decicidly snappier than cherrys, which is a very noticrable charictaristic but one you cant quite explain in words or.even put your finger on.
from my experiance of matias vs cherry the moat glaring difference is the actuation point of the matiases; they feel almost like membranes in that they dont have any travel before the tactile bump.
I noticed that about the Matias swtiches as well. Pretty much 0 travel before the bump/click. Are all ALPS switches like this?What do you folks mean by “no travel before the bump/click”? The tactile point in Matias switches is about 1.5mm into the stroke, out of a total of like 3.8mm. So ~40% of the stroke happens before the force drops.
I also feel that my cherry linear switches are smoother than the Matias linear. I'm still curious as to how the old ALPS green linear feels though because I've heard many say that is the smoothest linear switch ever made.When did you try Matias linear switches? As far as I know they’re still a brand new product that no one has yet gotten in a shipped keyboard. There were a handful of loose switches at the MassDrop office at the last bay area keyboard meetup, but they weren’t in a keyboard, so it’s hard to judge conclusively, but I definitely thought they were smoother than current NIB MX red or black switches. (I didn’t have any 80s/early 90s MX black switches at the meetup to compare directly, so I’m not sure about those.)
from my experiance of matias vs cherry the moat glaring difference is the actuation point of the matiases; they feel almost like membranes in that they dont have any travel before the tactile bump.I noticed that about the Matias swtiches as well. Pretty much 0 travel before the bump/click. Are all ALPS switches like this?What do you folks mean by “no travel before the bump/click”? The tactile point in Matias switches is about 1.5mm into the stroke, out of a total of like 3.8mm. So ~40% of the stroke happens before the force drops.
This is less than cherry switches, where what pitiful tactile feeling there is happens at about 2mm (50%) into a 4mm stroke. And it’s also less than IBM Model M/F switches, where the tactile point is ~3mm into a ~4.2mm stroke.Quote from: Den441I also feel that my cherry linear switches are smoother than the Matias linear. I'm still curious as to how the old ALPS green linear feels though because I've heard many say that is the smoothest linear switch ever made.When did you try Matias linear switches? As far as I know they’re still a brand new product that no one has yet gotten in a shipped keyboard. There were a handful of loose switches at the MassDrop office at the last bay area keyboard meetup, but they weren’t in a keyboard, so it’s hard to judge conclusively, but I definitely thought they were smoother than current NIB MX red or black switches. (I didn’t have any 80s/early 90s MX black switches at the meetup to compare directly, so I’m not sure about those.)
Green Alps switches are nice linear switches, but definitely not the smoothest ever made.
All the best linear switches are from the 1960s/70s (Honeywell/Micro Switch, Fujitsu, ITW, “vintage” SMK, “complicated” Futaba, RAFI, ...) nicer than any of the cheap consumer switches from >1980 (like Alps SKCM, Cherry MX, Hi-Tek “space invaders”, etc.). HaaTa’s favorite is the Alps magnetic reed switch.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157635545864692/Show Image(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3759/9765400954_780823fdc8_h.jpg)Show Image(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/9765734984_b51be45879_h.jpg)