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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: rrspamrr on Mon, 08 December 2014, 16:41:47
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Hello there! I'm currently typing this with a cherry mx blue (razer blackwidow ultimate 2012) keyboard and I'm not all that satisfied. The gaudy lighting and semi-decent typing feel doesn't really seem worth the 120 dollars I initially payed for it. I'm personally looking for a keyboard that will simply feel pleasent to type on. I'm not much of a gamer anymore and all I look for is a good typing experience.
That said, some people have recommended that I try the mx brown keys but others have warned that they feel "gritty" and that the lighter feeling will make going from an mx blue to an mx brown an even worse experience. Therefore, I seek the help of those experienced folk who have tried both types of keys. Which one feels better and why? And do you recommend any specific brands? I'd love to hear your thoughts!
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I haven't used blues, but if you do decide on browns I would recommend picking up a used board with browns that have already been broken in, besides the cheaper price tag they will be a lot smoother and as for brand personally I love my filco with browns.
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Personally, I prefer MX blues over MX browns, but MX clear or MX green over both. MX clears have the advantage of being much more tactile than the browns, and with a different type of tactility (no click) than the blues (clicky). Personally, my preference is for greater tactility when at all possible. I prefer browns only over linear switches, then blues, then greens, then clears as my favourite MX switch.
I've been really happy with my CM Storm boards. Others have said good things about WASD, KUL, Filco, Ducky and Leopold.
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My first keyboard is also Razer Blackwidow with MX Blue. Though I initially returned it because I can't stand macro keys (otherwise nothing wrong with keyboard).
Though once I went Brown I realize how much more I like Brown. The main different is reset point, since Blue has 2 slider inside so it require you to lift almost all the way up to reset the swtich. Brown is consistently at the half way point going down and up.
To me that's enough to tip the scale over.
My 2 favorite MX switches are Brown and Red. Though lately I've been using Topre as my daily driver.
That being said it's still all comes down to preference, it doesn't hurt to try it out though.
What form factor do you want (full size, tenkeyless... etc)? Also do you want backlit?
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I've actually always wondered about the clear switch! Could you explain what you mean by greater tactility? Is it that you feel more of a bump when you press down?
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Definitely looking for a tenkeyless model. I also find that the macro keys annoy me, now that you mention it! But do you feel that the brown is a bit too light? And do you recommend any specific models?
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What you've read about the browns is kind of correct.i switched from the blackwidow 2011 blue to the ducky premiere brown.coming from blues, the reds felt very smooth indeed and because of that they feel abit light for me. The browns even though they require the same amount of pressure as the reds feel less smooth but i definitely prefer them since they provide a small resistance on the way down and help me with typing.
Do note that i'm not some typing whiz, i am able to touch type if i dont think too much about it but once i realise that i am touch typing, i mess up my key presses.lol.
Like the rest said, if you could find a 2nd hand board, that would be the best
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Like you, I also started with a BlackWidow with MX Blue. I ended up adding a DAS keyboard with MX Brown switches shortly afterwards and used them interchangeably since.
I actually find that I like using each in their own way, as well as MX Red. The thing about the Browns is that the tactile bump feels quite notchy and not noticeable... some people describe them as feeling like broken reds (which are similar weight but completely linear).
It's also worth considering that keyboards feel completely different with different keycaps. You'd likely lose backlighting, but I reckon putting a set of PBT caps on it will make it feel a lot better. I intend to do this with mine and report back. I also added some rubber/foam stuff inside which makes it (and all my MX boards) sound a lot more snug / less hollow.
If you want tactile and smooth, then Topre boards seem to do a really good job. Buttery smooth, and the 55g Realforce is particularly tactile in addition to being quite quiet. Drawback is the cost.
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I second the notchy browns...u actually dont feel the bump during normal typing..only when i slowly n purposfully depress the key do i feel the bump
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if you're gonna get a tactile switch get clears
browns should feel ashamed calling themselves tactile
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if you're gonna get a tactile switch get clears
browns should feel ashamed calling themselves tactile
they are..hence the colour :p
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1. Buckling springs
2. Buckling springs
3. Springling bucks
4. Alps
5. Buckling springs
5a. Buckling springs
6. Did I mention buckling springs?
Addendum: Buckling springs.
PS: Alps
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Thanks for all the tips guys! I think the general consensus here is that clears are the most tactile (and, I assume, feel better than both blues and browns) and I'm really interested in buying one! I'm still not to sure how the topres stack up to mechanical key switches but regardless I don't think I'd even consider them given their exorbitant prices. With that said, I thank you all for your time. I really learned a lot :) Cheers!
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I started with blues and then switched to browns for a year or two. It is only since I have been building my own boards that I have used anything other than browns (and Topre).
I switched from blues almost entirely because if the reset point. As a developer it drove me mental every time I hit the same char twice quickly. I could never get used to that.
I admit that the browns did feel gritty when I first got them. I lubed the stabs and that helped a lot. I also did a ghetto lube job where I would depress the switch and then paint a super thin layer if lube on the inside of the side of the housing. This made a big difference to make the switches feel smoother until they broke in nicely. They are buttery now.
Browns are very subtle. Yes they are tactile but your brain will not notice it when typing quickly. I find that my fingers notice it even if my brain doesn't, so I find them very smooth and comfortable to type on.
I also agree that the keycaps make a huge difference for the feel of the board. I used thick pbt for years and loved them. There are some made by Leopold available right now for a pretty realistic price that people have been raving about. I personally have some IMSTO dye-subs which I still really like. I am currently using SA caps, which I do really enjoy as well. I have some GMK caps coming which I am sure I will enjoy as well. Keep in mind that other than the IMSTO caps all of those sets are over 100$ per set. I would recommend that you get the Leopold set if you want great caps for a good value.
Other notes...
I modded my caps with orings and I liked the feeling of that.
I currently use 65g clears with silicone balls. I find them still a little scratchy and a bit too noticeable still. I think they will smooth out with some more wear.
Let me know if you have questions about any of this.
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I've never owned a keyboard with blues, but I like browns. They're not the most tactile compared to other switches sure, but I think that browns are meant to be easy to type on while giving a minimal amount of tactility, like swill described.
Also note that clears, while more tactile, are quite a bit heavier to type on than browns or blues. This is why a lot of people mod their switches to ergo-clears, which uses a lighter spring (e.g. from browns/blues/reds or Korean springs) and an MX clear slider/stem. Browns are about the same or slightly lighter than blues.
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Hello there! I'm currently typing this with a cherry mx blue (razer blackwidow ultimate 2012) keyboard and I'm not all that satisfied. The gaudy lighting and semi-decent typing feel doesn't really seem worth the 120 dollars I initially payed for it. I'm personally looking for a keyboard that will simply feel pleasent to type on. I'm not much of a gamer anymore and all I look for is a good typing experience.
That said, some people have recommended that I try the mx brown keys but others have warned that they feel "gritty" and that the lighter feeling will make going from an mx blue to an mx brown an even worse experience. Therefore, I seek the help of those experienced folk who have tried both types of keys. Which one feels better and why? And do you recommend any specific brands? I'd love to hear your thoughts!
I bought a 2012 Blackwidow as an emergency replacement and to my complete amazement, absolutely loved it. I don't know what they did to 'tune' the Blues on there, but they felt great. I sold it on and bought a Filco Blue and found the clickiness to be much more intrusive. Fitting doubleshot spherical caps helped transform the board into something akin to a clicky Brown (yeah, I know....). The other day I decided to re-fit the stock caps after nearly a year with the doubleshots, only to find the Blues unbearable! At around the same time I tried a Corsair k95 RGB with Browns and I really loved them. One of the nicest boards I've ever typed on in fact. Prior to that, my experience with Browns was exactly as some people complain: gritty, or rather dirty, switch feeling.
I guess you can't pin down a single switch type as your favourite for life. Tastes change over time it seems. I think you could take a safe gamble on the latest Corsair boards though.
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Besides the answers you are getting here, I strongly recommend you to make your own research on switches, for that there is this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44165.0)directory, that provides general and also detailed information on experiences with different types of switches. The tours with testers are specially enlightening. Good reading!
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My first Cherry mx board was a Filco MJ2 Ninja TKL with mx blues; this is an excellent board for those who like mx blues. However, I was not satisfied with the sound or feel, and so I tried just about every mx switch (blue, green, red, black, clear, and brown). I've sold all my Cherry mx boards except for a WASD V2 with mx browns. I finally chose browns as an all-around compromise in a Cherry switch, but I don't really like them that much.
This week I received my KBP V2 Matias Quiet Click Mini keyboard from Massdrop. I really like the Matias switches. They have excellent tactility and give me a feeling of control that was lacking with all the Cherry switches. I like this board better than any Cherry mx board I have tried.
Overall, my current favorite switches are IBM capacitive buckling spring and Topre, and my current favorite keyboards are an IBM XT, RF 87ub 55g, and HHKB Pro 2. However, I am typing on my new V60 Matias board now, and enjoying it more and more.
BTW, my primary computer is a Mac and my favorite keyboard layout is HHKB. I was pleased that by using a combination of DIP switch settings and Karabiner software, I was able to remap my V60 to a Mac/HHKB layout.
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1. Buckling springs
2. Buckling springs
3. Springling bucks
4. Alps
5. Buckling springs
5a. Buckling springs
6. Did I mention buckling springs?
Addendum: Buckling springs.
PS: Alps
This is pretty spot on but replace alps with Black Space Invaders.
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Blues suffer from hysteresis. (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hysteresis)
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Blues suffer from hysteresis. (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hysteresis)
I believe this is not actually perceptible at ALL..
The reason is.. for you to FEEL this delay, you would have to be pressing the key slow enough and controlled enough such that it stops RIGHT after the click..
That is nearly an impossible event to occur unless purposefully intended..
NO ONE presses the key and aim for exactly 2mm.. because to do so, you'd have to train yourself to STOP at a certain depth.. THAT is a huge waste of time, since it will not bring any improvements to performance and requires an extra step..
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tp4, you're right to an extent. When typing, I've never noticed an issue with hysteresis from MX blues. However, I commonly experience this issue in games, when I try to double tap and float particular keys. Not to say it would be a problem for everyone, but my personal experience with the switch is that I have an issue with hysteresis in some applications.
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Blues suffer from hysteresis. (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hysteresis)
Ya, this **** drove me nuts and was the main reason I had to switch from blues. When I type quickly I don't always fully depress the keys and this was very noticeable. Everytime I doubletapped a key I noticed it. Too annoying...
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I own both types of switches. I'm currently typing this on my Poker II w/ MX Blues. I lend the Ducky one to a friend. I enjoy switching between them. You definitely won't have the same level of tactility going from Blues to Brown and the same level of noise either. See if you can meet someone from your area that could be willing to let you try some of his board. You could discover some goods switches and spare some money too. Otherwise you could try to head to a store that show some mechkb too.
if you're gonna get a tactile switch get clears
browns should feel ashamed calling themselves tactile
Well there is a difference in the strength required from MX Blue to MX Clear. Maybe he doesn't like heavier switches.