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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Fragil1ty on Sat, 13 December 2014, 20:50:44
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So recently I got hold of one of the older choc mini models and as you may or may not know, I'm a big 75% enthusiast and the noppoo is a personal favourite keyboard mine, I have been an avid mx red user for well over 2 years now, but one thing about this keyboard was the fact that it's a brown board.
Image below to demonstrate what the older versions vs the new versions of the noppoo looks like:
new:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61OOXjeMzZL._SL1024_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61OOXjeMzZL._SL1024_.jpg)
old:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/gamingarena/5938443143_1cd7e12f17_z.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/gamingarena/5938443143_1cd7e12f17_z.jpg)
And now that I have the board and after cleaning the keys and all that jazz and I started to use the keyboard (as my older noppoo which is one of the newer models, it has chattering issues kind of, every now and again), I started to use the keyboard and switching from reds to browns, to me, personally, it feels horrible, it feels very coarse, very rough and just not as pleasant what so ever and I'm just wondering if there is anyone out there who has made a similar switch and if so, how did you get around the feeling, etc?
tl;dr - Got a new 75% board, old had reds, new has browns, don't like browns. Tell me your reds to browns success stories or your keyswitch stories in general.
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I think the only Browns vs Reds debate is which one deserves the title of the worst switch that Cherry makes.
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I usually use browns but I got a 356 mini that had reds and I couldnt stand having no tactile feedback so I just switched them out with 62g mx clears.
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I think the only Browns vs Reds debate is which one deserves the title of the worst switch that Cherry makes.
:O!
Shots fired.
I usually use browns but I got a 356 mini that had reds and I couldnt stand having no tactile feedback so I just switched them out with 62g mx clears.
May I ask why you need that tactile feedback, is it because of the games you play or is it for the typing experience or what? I'd love to know, very intrigued.
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Personally, I just need some sort of feedback. Linear keys are kind of unnerving to me.
On the other hand, my teenage son, a gamer, loves black Cherry switches and O-rings because he can move and bounce incredibly fast.
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"browns feel like reds with a turd under them" -/g/
I think browns are trying to be both reds and clears. No like. Reds and clears are both pretty good, but browns try to hard to be both.
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I think the only Browns vs Reds debate is which one deserves the title of the worst switch that Cherry makes.
:O!
Shots fired.
I usually use browns but I got a 356 mini that had reds and I couldnt stand having no tactile feedback so I just switched them out with 62g mx clears.
May I ask why you need that tactile feedback, is it because of the games you play or is it for the typing experience or what? I'd love to know, very intrigued.
I need the feedback or else my hands get very tired from bottoming out the switches.
Lubed browns are really nice, but stock really arent that bad either.
"browns feel like reds with a turd under them" -/g/
I think browns are trying to be both reds and clears. No like. Reds and clears are both pretty good, but browns try to hard to be both.
Lubed browns are pretty nice, but stock browns really arent that bad if you are used to them , they are a good middle ground between blacks and blues, at least stock.
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Deciding which Cherry switch you'd rather use is like deciding which gulag you'd rather live in.
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Deciding which Cherry switch you'd rather use is like deciding which gulag you'd rather live in.
Oh I'm going to stick to reds, i'm going to use the keycaps that I got from the board, buy a new noppoo and then go from there, was just wondering if anyone had basically got around this issue really, XD.
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Deciding which Cherry switch you'd rather use is like deciding which gulag you'd rather live in.
I can see this being in someone's signature.
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Seems like the only debate is: "Do you want to feel a bump or not?"
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Deciding which Cherry switch you'd rather use is like deciding which gulag you'd rather live in.
Oh I'm going to stick to reds, i'm going to use the keycaps that I got from the board, buy a new noppoo and then go from there, was just wondering if anyone had basically got around this issue really, XD.
Yeah go with whatever you would like and if you dont like it you can allways message me or anyone else on the artisan section to get the switches swapped out!
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Does the feel of browns change over time? The MX Browns on a switch tester at Microcenter felt almost exactly like MX Reds, while the one on my brand new switch tester feels a lot more gritty.
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Does the feel of browns change over time? The MX Browns on a switch tester at Microcenter felt almost exactly like MX Reds, while the one on my brand new switch tester feels a lot more gritty.
Yes, the plastic wears down over time.
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was just wondering if anyone had basically got around this issue really, XD.
What does it mean to “get around this issue”? It’s a matter of personal preference; MX brown switches are uninspired but mostly unobjectionable, IMO. I’d recommend using them on keyboards in settings like computer labs, public libraries, or guest bedrooms.
For folks who enjoy tactile feedback, I’d advise against any kind of MX switches.
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*CLiB is an MX peasant
Don't judge me cuz I'm poor, man...
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They're both ****. The topre gods call.
only mx switch worth your time is blues or greens. everything else is ****.
and only blues/greens if there is no topre around.
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Am I the only who doesn't like Topre that much? I prefer my Filco red to my variable weighted 87u, though by a very small margin, I wouldn't mind using either.
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Am I the only who doesn't like Topre that much? I prefer my Filco red to my variable weighted 87u, though by a very small margin, I wouldn't mind using either.
No. I'm not a huge fan of it. I like it enough to use it to program, but that's the full extent my realforce gets used. I don't mind though, it gets more use than some of my other boards.
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Am I the only who doesn't like Topre that much? I prefer my Filco red to my variable weighted 87u, though by a very small margin, I wouldn't mind using either.
I don't like topres either to be honest with you, little over-hyped if you ask me but they are amazing for typing on, I just cannot use them for gaming what so ever, so that's a little bit annoying for me and that's the main reason I got rid of mine, I do regret it a lot of the time in all fairness. ;_ owel
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Am I the only who doesn't like Topre that much? I prefer my Filco red to my variable weighted 87u, though by a very small margin, I wouldn't mind using either.
I don't like topres either to be honest with you(not as much as reds anyway), little over-hyped if you ask me but they are amazing for typing on, I just cannot use them for gaming what so ever, so that's a little bit annoying for me and that's the main reason I got rid of mine, I do regret it a lot of the time in all fairness. ;_ owel
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Am I the only who doesn't like Topre that much? I prefer my Filco red to my variable weighted 87u, though by a very small margin, I wouldn't mind using either.
I don't like topres either to be honest with you, little over-hyped if you ask me but they are amazing for typing on, I just cannot use them for gaming what so ever, so that's a little bit annoying for me and that's the main reason I got rid of mine, I do regret it a lot of the time in all fairness. ;_ owel
Fall asleep at the wheel?
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My first board used browns, my third board used reds. I'm not a huge fan of either switch to be honest, but I'd prefer the browns over the reds. Browns I can at least use for more than a few minutes without disliking the experience, reds I could really only tolerate in very short term applications.
Personally, I feel that the more tactile a switch is, the better it is. Nothing like that physical feedback :)
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I don't like topres either to be honest with you(not as much as reds anyway), little over-hyped if you ask me but they are amazing for typing on, I just cannot use them for gaming what so ever, so that's a little bit annoying for me and that's the main reason I got rid of mine, I do regret it a lot of the time in all fairness. ;_ owel
Yeah I feel ya bro, I kinda bought into the topre bandwagon and got the 87u. It's a great board, but definitely not 1.5x better than my blue camo. And the integrated pseudo-numpad is not that great either. Num lock is on by default when my computer boots and I keep mistyping my password due to that :))
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I still would like to try reds sometime. I've tried Brown's a few times. They are ok but I gotta have more tactility and noise, but I'm an avid fan of bucking spring and don't think much stacks up against them.
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I still would like to try reds sometime. I've tried Brown's a few times. They are ok but I gotta have more tactility and noise, but I'm an avid fan of bucking spring and don't think much stacks up against them.
Your preferences are like the total opposite of what the reds are :D I also like tactility but am still enjoying my red board quite a bit, especially for gaming. My blue board can only handle RTS games, FPS not so much.
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Browns with a the tactility of a clear switch would be great . Browns should be ergo-clear.
"browns feel like reds with a turd under them" -/g/
This is a great way to describe how browns switches feel.
It amaze me that browns are one of the most common switches for generics keyboards .
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I think it is all personal preference. When I used Cherry MX, I preferred browns to reds.
The argument that browns feel like "dirty reds" is a popular one. Personally, I never felt like that. The feedback and tactility of the browns felt clean and consistent to me. Additionally, the slight tactile feedback made typing on browns a more pleasant experience for me. But then again, opinions on this differ. There is no right or wrong. Both are popular switches that you can easily adapt to. I would expect that browns would have a more mainstream appeal since they do not feel quite as unique as the very light and linear reds.
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I like browns better than reds but I like ergo clears more than browns! :p I like the light weightness of a brown switch but the tactile bump is so crap! (In lack of a better word) You can't notice the bump unless you're typing at like 20 words per minute!
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Browns with a the tactility of a clear switch would be great . Browns should be ergo-clear.
"browns feel like reds with a turd under them" -/g/
This is a great way to describe how browns switches feel.
It amaze me that browns are one of the most common switches for generics keyboards .
Hell, it amazes me that Cherry Corporation somehow got a practical monopoly on Mechanical keyboard switches. I don't know what allowed them to survive the 90s when so many others died considering all Cherry switches feel like cheap pieces of ****. I just don't get it. Why are they so popular? I suppose the whole keycap hype that's currently going on might have something to do with it, but I have to say that I don't understand that either. It hurts my brain trying to figure out why anyone would care what their keycaps look like, so maybe my opinion on this is a little fringe.
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I prefer Browns, but that's because I just don't like linear switches.
I also have an issue with the small bump on the Browns. They're definitely tactile, but feel too much like a compromise. I much prefer Clears for their much bigger tactile bump, although I don't like how hard stock Clear springs are.
IMHO, Cherry should only make three switches: Clears with 62g springs, Blacks with 62g springs and Greens with 62g springs. Their "soft" springs are too soft and their "hard" springs are too hard. 62g is juuust right.
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I recently made the switch from reds to browns (my rosewill malfunctioned) and have to say that I'm definitely enjoying the experience. I think the tactility of the browns creates a bit more resistance and this has helped lessen the errors I usually made with the red. For gaming, I'd also choose the browns since I'm an FPS player that needs to quickly double-tap keys. I'll agree that the tactileness of the browns is negligible, but it's still different and has been beneficial to me.
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Linear switches are murder
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The basis of Cherry mx switches is simple compression of a helical spring. The force-displacement curve therefore follows Hooke's law, a linear relationship. The purest form of this is found in the purely linear switches, black and red.
In order to provide tactility, Cherry added a literal bump or cam to the slider, which requires force additional to that to compress the spring to get over the bump. This device is employed in the tactile switches, clear and brown.
In order to provide tactility and aural feedback, a plastic clicker was added in addition to the tactile bump. This gives you the green and blue switches.
To me, if I wanted to use a Cherry switch, I would go with its purest forms, black or red.
If I wanted a tactile switch in which the tactility was more of an integral part of the switching mechanism rather than an add-on, I would go with IBM buckling spring (capacitive Model F or membrane Model M), Topre, Matias, or tactile forms of Alps or Alps-type switches.
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The basis of Cherry mx switches is simple compression of a helical spring. The force-displacement curve therefore follows Hooke's law, a linear relationship. The purest form of this is found in the purely linear switches, black and red.
In order to provide tactility, Cherry added a literal bump or cam to the slider, which requires force additional to that to compress the spring to get over the bump. This device is employed in the tactile switches, clear and brown.
In order to provide tactility and aural feedback, a plastic clicker was added in addition to the tactile bump. This gives you the green and blue switches.
To me, if I wanted to use a Cherry switch, I would go with its purest forms, black or red.
If I wanted a tactile switch in which the tactility was more of an integral part of the switching mechanism rather than an add-on, I would go with IBM buckling spring (capacitive Model F or membrane Model M), Topre, Matias, or tactile forms of Alps or Alps-type switches.
Cherry MX switches have always struck me as a fundementally linear design whose original purpose was first and foremost durability. It's such a simple design that allows for a cheap and very reliable switch to use in situations where the reliability of the switch is paramount. See: industrial equipment, POS terminals, etc. Their "tactile" variants feel very much like MacGyver'd up pieces of ****.
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To the above 2 posters: Wow, hate much?
The basis of all mechanical key switches is the compression of a metal spring. Even Topre have one, although it's conical rather than helical. Different implementations allow the spring force to have more or less prominence in the slider movement. Most prominent = MX, least = Topre.
There is very little difference in the way the tactile part of Alps, Matias and MX switches function. The tactility is still a plastic "bump" with a shaped leaf spring. It's just a different shape and in a different place in the movement.
That said, I do think Clears with lighter springs are the only tactile variant of MX worth using. Browns have too small of a bump on the stem for my taste. They're tactile enough to prevent accidental presses and to give enough positive feedback when typing to improve typing accuracy for some people, though, and that's enough in some cases (if you want something as close to linear as possible, but with these features), but I wouldn't consider them properly "tactile", more like linear-ish with mild tactile feedback.
I agree on the clicky MX variants, though. Seems to be an ad hoc feature that doesn't really work for me. Clicky Alps use a completely different mechanism for the click and they are much nicer, both in sound and feeling.
So, 62g Blacks, Ghost Blacks and 62g ErgoClears are the best MX types. Pity Cherry doesn't make them like that.
If you want clicky, go Alps or buckling spring.
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the tactility in brown also diminishes over time.. down from almost nothing to nothing..
SO.. you might as well just go with linear if your choices are between Linear and Brown..
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Reds vs. Browns = ergo Clears. Just pointing that the actual winner for this debate is not within the contenders.
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I must be a light typer because I beat on browns all day and still feel the bump. The bump is slight enough so that my brain realizes that I've hit the switch and I continue typing. I do bottom out on browns, but much lighter then I did on Reds. There is something else I just don't like about reds, but harder for me to describe. The press of the switch just doesn't feel fluid enough for me for what I feel a linear switch should feel like. Maybe lube would have helped with this, but I wasn't going to try it especially since I am not sure that was the exact issue was to begin with. The perfect linear switch to me would be an old cash register I've used (cant remember what kind, but I believe it was an old IBM). On this old register I believe the key travel was a lot shorter as well which may have added to it.
Long story short, browns are probably my favorite of the mx keys that I've tried so far (blue, brown, red, green, clear, black). I had a blue board (my first) which I didn't particularly enjoy typing on, but when I tried browns I fell in love. Very light key that my fingers can easily glide on. Oh I also really enjoy my realforce 45g, probably equally to my browns.
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To the above 2 posters: Wow, hate much?
The basis of all mechanical key switches is the compression of a metal spring. Even Topre have one, although it's conical rather than helical. Different implementations allow the spring force to have more or less prominence in the slider movement. Most prominent = MX, least = Topre.
There is very little difference in the way the tactile part of Alps, Matias and MX switches function. The tactility is still a plastic "bump" with a shaped leaf spring. It's just a different shape and in a different place in the movement.
That said, I do think Clears with lighter springs are the only tactile variant of MX worth using. Browns have too small of a bump on the stem for my taste. They're tactile enough to prevent accidental presses and to give enough positive feedback when typing to improve typing accuracy for some people, though, and that's enough in some cases (if you want something as close to linear as possible, but with these features), but I wouldn't consider them properly "tactile", more like linear-ish with mild tactile feedback.
I agree on the clicky MX variants, though. Seems to be an ad hoc feature that doesn't really work for me. Clicky Alps use a completely different mechanism for the click and they are much nicer, both in sound and feeling.
So, 62g Blacks, Ghost Blacks and 62g ErgoClears are the best MX types. Pity Cherry doesn't make them like that.
If you want clicky, go Alps or buckling spring.
No hate intended! Attempting to be objective. Apologies if this was misconstrued.
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The bump is slight enough so that my brain realizes that I've hit the switch and I continue typing.
This is the crux of the matter.
Any tactility, even very slight, is sufficient for (some/many) people.
I like more, but your brain can interpret signals on a subliminal level.
When I buy a Cherry keyboard to actually use, some variation of clears will be what I go for.
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When I buy a Cherry keyboard to actually use, some variation of clears will be what I go for.
Don’t do it! Or if you really feel you must, go for spring-swapped (either MX clear springs, or aftermarket "Korean" 62/65/67g springs) “vintage” black switches, ideally lubed.
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Reds or browns? Neither.
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new in box vintage mx browns are the best switch hands down
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I must be a light typer because I beat on browns all day and still feel the bump. The bump is slight enough so that my brain realizes that I've hit the switch and I continue typing. I do bottom out on browns, but much lighter then I did on Reds. There is something else I just don't like about reds, but harder for me to describe. The press of the switch just doesn't feel fluid enough for me for what I feel a linear switch should feel like. Maybe lube would have helped with this, but I wasn't going to try it especially since I am not sure that was the exact issue was to begin with. The perfect linear switch to me would be an old cash register I've used (cant remember what kind, but I believe it was an old IBM). On this old register I believe the key travel was a lot shorter as well which may have added to it.
Long story short, browns are probably my favorite of the mx keys that I've tried so far (blue, brown, red, green, clear, black). I had a blue board (my first) which I didn't particularly enjoy typing on, but when I tried browns I fell in love. Very light key that my fingers can easily glide on. Oh I also really enjoy my realforce 45g, probably equally to my browns.
I like the brown switches as well, but I like clears with ~50g springs better. The actuation bump is crisper than that on the brown switches, and the force required for actuation is still well under rubber dome based boards. As you said, if I should use a stock MX switch, I would prefer the brown.
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The broken in Browns on my Poker II with Leopold PBT caps is perhaps one of the best typing experiences I've ever had. I don't like linear switches.
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I must be a light typer because I beat on browns all day and still feel the bump. The bump is slight enough so that my brain realizes that I've hit the switch and I continue typing. I do bottom out on browns, but much lighter then I did on Reds. There is something else I just don't like about reds, but harder for me to describe. The press of the switch just doesn't feel fluid enough for me for what I feel a linear switch should feel like. Maybe lube would have helped with this, but I wasn't going to try it especially since I am not sure that was the exact issue was to begin with. The perfect linear switch to me would be an old cash register I've used (cant remember what kind, but I believe it was an old IBM). On this old register I believe the key travel was a lot shorter as well which may have added to it.
Long story short, browns are probably my favorite of the mx keys that I've tried so far (blue, brown, red, green, clear, black). I had a blue board (my first) which I didn't particularly enjoy typing on, but when I tried browns I fell in love. Very light key that my fingers can easily glide on. Oh I also really enjoy my realforce 45g, probably equally to my browns.
I like the brown switches as well, but I like clears with ~50g springs better. The actuation bump is crisper than that on the brown switches, and the force required for actuation is still well under rubber dome based boards. As you said, if I should use a stock MX switch, I would prefer the brown.
Ergo clears do sound interesting... I do like the way the clears feel with the exception of force required. Alas I am not about to spend the time replacing the plastic/springs in every switch so until cherry mx release a retail version browns will remain my favorite mx switch.
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I have seen Ergo Clears recommended so often, I would like to give them a try.
When I tried stock Clears, I found them too heavy because I like to bottom out and the force increases rather sharply after actuation with Clears.
I am now typing on Matias Quiet Click switches in a V60. These feel really good -- in fact, the feeling of Matias Quiet Click is what I was hoping to find with stock Clears. It would be interesting to compare Matias with Ergo Clears.
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I'm going to pull the hipster card and say Brown Kailhs feel better than MX.
Of course, Matias Quiet Click are better than both.
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Cherry MX Blue have the bestest soft-touch feel.. it has the lowest perceptible friction points of all the switches..
It is by far the smoothest Cherry mx switch, the work of an engineering Genius..
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I'm going to pull the hipster card and say Brown Kailhs feel better than MX.
Of course, Matias Quiet Click are better than both.
It is too bad their boards are horrendously ugly.
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I'm going to pull the hipster card and say Brown Kailhs feel better than MX.
Of course, Matias Quiet Click are better than both.
It is too bad their boards are horrendously ugly.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I actually simply cannot comprehend, my brain cannot process the idea that the aesthetic appearance of a keyboard could matter in any way whatsoever. You don't look at a keyboard; you don't show off a keyboard - it cannot be a status symbol; the appearance is completely relevant. The things that matter are those that relate to function. This is why I just don't get all this stuff about clacks or whatever. Am I just, like, autistic or something? I can't understand why anyone would care.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: I actually simply cannot comprehend, my brain cannot process the idea that the aesthetic appearance of a keyboard could matter in any way whatsoever. You don't look at a keyboard; you don't show off a keyboard - it cannot be a status symbol; the appearance is completely relevant. The things that matter are those that relate to function. This is why I just don't get all this stuff about clacks or whatever. Am I just, like, autistic or something? I can't understand why anyone would care.
As the adage goes, different strokes for different folks. I personally cannot comprehend not considering aesthetics. The keyboard, much like the computer case, should please me aesthetically when I use it. The optimum fir any product is to be fubctional, aesthetically pleasing, and reliable. Unfirtunately, Matias products are stuck in the '90s.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: I actually simply cannot comprehend, my brain cannot process the idea that the aesthetic appearance of a keyboard could matter in any way whatsoever. You don't look at a keyboard; you don't show off a keyboard - it cannot be a status symbol; the appearance is completely relevant. The things that matter are those that relate to function. This is why I just don't get all this stuff about clacks or whatever. Am I just, like, autistic or something? I can't understand why anyone would care.
It's the same reason any brand updates their products, popular aesthetics change over time. Some designs stay timeless, while others signal a certain era of design. The Matias boards are designed to look like 90s to early 00s boards, even their branding and site features an older design and Apple products. That said many here rock older boards and love them, so it's obviously personal taste.
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They're both ****. The topre gods call.
only mx switch worth your time is blues or greens. everything else is ****.
and only blues/greens if there is no topre around.
Can confirm, MX blue masterrace
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I'm going to pull the hipster card and say Brown Kailhs feel better than MX.
Of course, Matias Quiet Click are better than both.
I wouldn't say better, but I would definitely say they feel as good as MX.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: I actually simply cannot comprehend, my brain cannot process the idea that the aesthetic appearance of a keyboard could matter in any way whatsoever. You don't look at a keyboard; you don't show off a keyboard - it cannot be a status symbol; the appearance is completely relevant. The things that matter are those that relate to function. This is why I just don't get all this stuff about clacks or whatever. Am I just, like, autistic or something? I can't understand why anyone would care.
You just haven't been on GH very long. You'll learn. ;)
But seriously, do you NEVER look at your keyboard? It's nice to own stuff that looks good (after the fact that it functions well). It can even be inspiring, especially when the looks and function match in awesomeness. I guess what I'm saying is that your environment matters, so how things look matters. People tend to be more productive and have a better self image when they're in an uplifiting environment.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: I actually simply cannot comprehend, my brain cannot process the idea that the aesthetic appearance of a keyboard could matter in any way whatsoever. You don't look at a keyboard; you don't show off a keyboard - it cannot be a status symbol; the appearance is completely relevant. The things that matter are those that relate to function. This is why I just don't get all this stuff about clacks or whatever. Am I just, like, autistic or something? I can't understand why anyone would care.
As the adage goes, different strokes for different folks. I personally cannot comprehend not considering aesthetics. The keyboard, much like the computer case, should please me aesthetically when I use it. The optimum fir any product is to be fubctional, aesthetically pleasing, and reliable. Unfirtunately, Matias products are stuck in the '90s.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: I actually simply cannot comprehend, my brain cannot process the idea that the aesthetic appearance of a keyboard could matter in any way whatsoever. You don't look at a keyboard; you don't show off a keyboard - it cannot be a status symbol; the appearance is completely relevant. The things that matter are those that relate to function. This is why I just don't get all this stuff about clacks or whatever. Am I just, like, autistic or something? I can't understand why anyone would care.
You just haven't been on GH very long. You'll learn. ;)
But seriously, do you NEVER look at your keyboard? It's nice to own stuff that looks good (after the fact that it functions well). It can even be inspiring, especially when the looks and function match in awesomeness. I guess what I'm saying is that your environment matters, so how things look matters. People tend to be more productive and have a better self image when they're in an uplifiting environment.
Alright, I'm going to have to backpedal a little. I overstated that comment. Not sure why I felt compelled to fish for a reaction like that. Nobody human can honestly say that aesthetics are totally irrelevant. I suppose, personally, I'd rather my these sorts of things kind of blend in rather than stand out. Aesthetics are very much an afterthought. In my brain "keyboard" is filed under "tool" and as such the order of relevancy for traits distinguishing a good keyboard are strongly biased towards the functional rather than aesthetic.
I'd say, depending on the intended use of the board, key switches are most important by far, followed, potentially though not always, by layout and form factor (if you want a portable keyboard to carry around with your laptop a Model M is probably not the way to go), followed by the keycap construction and material, followed by the general health of the board (applicable only to used boards), followed in very dead last by aesthetics. I suppose what confuses me is people making sweeping dismissals of what I consider to be a board that excels in all the more important areas by this last and least important criterion, and I don't understand the desire to bling out a board. I don't put glitter all over my other tools. Is clean and non-offensive not good enough?
I suppose I also have to admit that my opinions on this topic are probably at least partially coloured by the fact that I hate myself enough to think I don't deserve nice things.
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Can you two edit the last two posts and fix your broken quote nesting?
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Nope.
Can you two edit the last two posts and fix your broken quote nesting?
Okay.