geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: RoflCopter4 on Tue, 23 December 2014, 20:59:36
-
I bought a custom set of keycaps from Unicomp to go on my old IBM Model F Space Unsaver 122 key terminal thing (just rolls off the tongue) and, upon cursory inspection of the stems of the old and new keycaps, I noticed a small difference.
I was suprised to discover that Unicomp actually still produces the old style two piece keycaps, which is what they sent me. For whatever reason different sections of the board seem to have differently coloured stems, but as far as I can tell that is just colour. In any case, they mostly seem to be the same as the old ones found on Model Ms and some Model Fs, such as mine, with a few noticeable differences.
Firstly, and least importantly, the Unicomp ones seem to be molded rather badly. Many have serious cosmetic defects in the colour of the plastic, but given the age of the equipment Unicomp is working with I can totally forgive this. It's just the colour that's inconsistent and you don't even see the stems anyway. The second and more prominent difference is in the shape of the stem. For whatever reason, and I really don't know what that reason is, the old Model F stems have a higher slit in the back than the Unicomp ones. It's actually quite a bit larger. As far as I can tell this slit doesn't actually do anything, so I don't think it should matter... but I'm not totally sure.
Has anyone else noticed this? Would this make any difference in the typing? I had planned to just replace all of the keys, stem and all, with the new Unicomp ones, but I could just leave the old stems and put the Unicomp tops on, at least for all the keys where that is possible. I don't think that will be necessary but I really can't imagine why this difference in the mold even exists.
Some photos I took with my potato:
http://imgur.com/a/o0NrT
-
Unicomp sends all kinds of random color stems with their caps. In the old days IBM made pearl-pebble-esque stems in a small spectrum of variation, but Unicomp goes from black to white with all kinds of gray in between.
Modern quality issues are discussed here regularly, but even IBMs displayed considerable variations in weight and placement of legends throughout the 1980s.
-
Unicomp sends all kinds of random color stems with their caps. In the old days IBM made pearl-pebble-esque stems in a small spectrum of variation, but Unicomp goes from black to white with all kinds of gray in between.
Modern quality issues are discussed here regularly, but even IBMs displayed considerable variations in weight and placement of legends throughout the 1980s.
I don't really care about the colour differences. It's the differences in the slit that confuse me. The colour is totally irrelevant.
-
Can you feel or hear a difference when typing on them? If not, what’s the problem?
-
The slit is the gap in the stem that gives room for the spring to buckle into to hit the barrel / chimney. The height difference is likely due to F vs M molds. I used Unicomp stems / caps on my F107, no issues.
-
I have to wonder how much life Unicomp's molds have left. A larger company would have made new molds long ago, but unfortunately that wouldn't be feasible for Unicomp, unless they absolutely have to. Given that, I wonder if the future of Unicomp may be uncertain...
-
I have to wonder how much life Unicomp's molds have left. A larger company would have made new molds long ago, but unfortunately that wouldn't be feasible for Unicomp, unless they absolutely have to. Given that, I wonder if the future of Unicomp may be uncertain...
You scare me. Don't say that!
Regarding the key caps, they seem to work fine on my 107. Feel the same. Slightly off topic, I've found with the original caps on the 107 didn't have nubs on the F and J keys and I felt like a complete nub typing, like my fingers completely forgot what they were doing. Do all other model F keybaords have nubs on the F and J keys or was it standard practice not to include nubs?
-
didn't have nubs on the F and J keys and I felt like a complete nub typing, like my fingers completely forgot what they were doing.
I prefer no nubs.
But for sentimental (or is it just mental?) reasons I keep red or orange caps on "GH" and that functions about the same for a "cheating touch-typer" like myself.
-
first a disclaimer: I only have been able to find M's, so my experience with F's is just about nonexistent.
but if you can't feel a difference typing with the new one, I don't think it matters at all. and if your old F keys had detachable stems, I'd recommend you use the old stems and new caps if it bothers you.
My 1993 Lexmark M stems had similar swirls; I don't think thay's due to age necessarily. And unicomp keeps telling me they're working on a tenkeyless mould so I think that they can afford a new one if it isn't too often (though the ETA keeps changing. If it had been at their original arrival time, it would have been announced February 2014 or so). I would buy three tenkeyless M's if they would start making them, already.
Then again, I also think they would sell loads if they were to make black keycaps with white lettering on them. But neither have happened and both would make Unicomp get a LOT of orders, because they would be making rarer and more desirable variants and would be able to sell cheaper than the price M13's and especially tenkeylesses go for now.
I can just imagine... a black tenkeyless M!
But I digress.
-
I have to wonder how much life Unicomp's molds have left. A larger company would have made new molds long ago, but unfortunately that wouldn't be feasible for Unicomp, unless they absolutely have to. Given that, I wonder if the future of Unicomp may be uncertain...
You scare me. Don't say that!
Regarding the key caps, they seem to work fine on my 107. Feel the same. Slightly off topic, I've found with the original caps on the 107 didn't have nubs on the F and J keys and I felt like a complete nub typing, like my fingers completely forgot what they were doing. Do all other model F keybaords have nubs on the F and J keys or was it standard practice not to include nubs?
The terminal boards don't have home row nubs, the PC boards do.
-
I have to wonder how much life Unicomp's molds have left. A larger company would have made new molds long ago, but unfortunately that wouldn't be feasible for Unicomp, unless they absolutely have to. Given that, I wonder if the future of Unicomp may be uncertain...
You scare me. Don't say that!
Regarding the key caps, they seem to work fine on my 107. Feel the same. Slightly off topic, I've found with the original caps on the 107 didn't have nubs on the F and J keys and I felt like a complete nub typing, like my fingers completely forgot what they were doing. Do all other model F keybaords have nubs on the F and J keys or was it standard practice not to include nubs?
The terminal boards don't have home row nubs, the PC boards do.
Interesting, that must just be for model F, as my terminal M has nubs.
-
And unicomp keeps telling me they're working on a tenkeyless mould so I think that they can afford a new one if it isn't too often (though the ETA keeps changing. If it had been at their original arrival time, it would have been announced February 2014 or so). I would buy three tenkeyless M's if they would start making them, already.
Don’t get your hopes up. They’ve been hinting at numpad-less models for years, with no physical evidence they’re actually working on it.
-
And unicomp keeps telling me they're working on a tenkeyless mould so I think that they can afford a new one if it isn't too often (though the ETA keeps changing. If it had been at their original arrival time, it would have been announced February 2014 or so). I would buy three tenkeyless M's if they would start making them, already.
Don’t get your hopes up. They’ve been hinting at numpad-less models for years, with no physical evidence they’re actually working on it.
Perhaps what they mean when they hint is that they're looking for commercial contracts for them rather than actually physically working on the moulds?
-
Unicomp is bad at marketing itself.
It is bad at innovating.
It is using ageing equipment and has quality issues.
The only thing that they are good at being, is friendly. Many big industrial firms don't respond to inquiries from retail customers. Customer goodwill is about the only thing sustaining Unicomp now.
-
Since the patents on buckling spring have long expired, I'm shocked there are not knock-offs out there yet.
-
Since the patents on buckling spring have long expired, I'm shocked there are not knock-offs out there yet.
Not a big enough market for them.
-
If you could come up with a blingy backlit BS keyboard, demand might increase slightly. Make it a silent one, and you'd be on a winner!
-
I have to wonder how much life Unicomp's molds have left. A larger company would have made new molds long ago, but unfortunately that wouldn't be feasible for Unicomp, unless they absolutely have to. Given that, I wonder if the future of Unicomp may be uncertain...
You scare me. Don't say that!
Regarding the key caps, they seem to work fine on my 107. Feel the same. Slightly off topic, I've found with the original caps on the 107 didn't have nubs on the F and J keys and I felt like a complete nub typing, like my fingers completely forgot what they were doing. Do all other model F keybaords have nubs on the F and J keys or was it standard practice not to include nubs?
The terminal boards don't have home row nubs, the PC boards do.
I have to wonder how much life Unicomp's molds have left. A larger company would have made new molds long ago, but unfortunately that wouldn't be feasible for Unicomp, unless they absolutely have to. Given that, I wonder if the future of Unicomp may be uncertain...
You scare me. Don't say that!
Regarding the key caps, they seem to work fine on my 107. Feel the same. Slightly off topic, I've found with the original caps on the 107 didn't have nubs on the F and J keys and I felt like a complete nub typing, like my fingers completely forgot what they were doing. Do all other model F keybaords have nubs on the F and J keys or was it standard practice not to include nubs?
The terminal boards don't have home row nubs, the PC boards do.
Both my PC model F and my AT model F have one-piece keys and no nubs. My 1984 M has two-piece keys and nubs. I vaguely remember nubs being talked about as a new thing back then, part of what came to be called "universal access" meaning a design philosophy that puts handicapped-accessible features everywhere, not just in special purpose-built things for handicapped people. The thinking is to make the whole world more accessible. It's way cheaper and easier to put nubs on all keyboards rather than build special keyboards. It's also easier for everyone to learn and use touch-typing to have the nubs.
I can't find any documentation on that in a quick search, I just remember it being a thing.