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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: wellington1869 on Wed, 05 August 2009, 12:05:19
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I have a 19" regular lcd right now.
i saw some of these ginormous monitors at work. at first i thought it was way overkill. but when I saw how nice and big the fonts get, I started to be tempted.
if i were to upgrade i'd get a 23 or 24 inch I guess, cuz the vertical height (even if its widescreen) would remain around same vertical height as on the 19".
ideally i'd like to rotate it to view a word document vertically on it, but that might be asking too much. not sure how much i'd really use that anyway.
anyway, so is it worth it? In actual screen real estate, you actually dont get all that much more (about a 4 inch wide strip).
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I would say yes.
Everything is being designed for widescreen now: movies, games, websites, etc.
Any program which uses a central working area and menus on the sides will also benefit.
You shouldn't pay more for portrait-mode as it's not all that great. Most screens have small viewing angle on the sides which leads to pretty crappy image when you turn your screen. Your screen will also stick out a huge amount above your head which makes it not that comfortable to read.
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hmmm, good points all. wonder if I can find one around $200. maybe a used one. I love ebay and craigslist.
its going to be nearly as big as my desk, lol.
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I would say yes.
Everything is being designed for widescreen now: movies, games, websites, etc.
Any program which uses a central working area and menus on the sides will also benefit.
You shouldn't pay more for portrait-mode as it's not all that great. Most screens have small viewing angle on the sides which leads to pretty crappy image when you turn your screen. Your screen will also stick out a huge amount above your head which makes it not that comfortable to read.
Widescreen websites? Where?
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Going widescreen is worth it, but beware: The influence of of LCD panels' shortcomings is getting worse and worse the larger the screen gets. When sitting in front of a large widescreen monitor, you'll get significant differences in viewing angle at the edges, leading to slight colour shifts when using TN panels.
If that doesn't annoy you, go for it. If it does, you'll have to chose a high-quality panel (current production TNs are better in that respect, yet still not exactly good)--either an IPS or VA variant, but they're much more expensive than their TN brethren.
Maybe someone has a Dell 2405WFP or 2407WFP to sell--they feature PVA (IIRC) panels plus pivot, which is what you'd like to have. I wouldn't buy anything based on a TN panel when wanting to use pivot; the dependancy on viewing angles makes for a crappy picture.
-huha
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If you want a monitor that big the only ones made nowadays are all widescreen so you don't have much of a choice :P
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Going widescreen is worth it, but beware: The influence of of LCD panels' shortcomings is getting worse and worse the larger the screen gets. When sitting in front of a large widescreen monitor, you'll get significant differences in viewing angle at the edges, leading to slight colour shifts when using TN panels.
If that doesn't annoy you, go for it. If it does, you'll have to chose a high-quality panel (current production TNs are better in that respect, yet still not exactly good)--either an IPS or VA variant, but they're much more expensive than their TN brethren.
Maybe someone has a Dell 2405WFP or 2407WFP to sell--they feature PVA (IIRC) panels plus pivot, which is what you'd like to have. I wouldn't buy anything based on a TN panel when wanting to use pivot; the dependancy on viewing angles makes for a crappy picture.
-huha
ya i noticed a wide range of quality among the ones at work. some look absolutely amazing and bright and clear and others look pretty crappy and dull. i need to write down the model numbers of the ones i liked. I think they were all dells at work though.
my fear is that the ones i liked are going to be super expensive.
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another option is to buy a second 19" one maybe.
but i'm not actually looking for more real estate just for the sake of it. What i liked specifically was that at the same resolution the fonts were bigger. Its really just for my poor tired eyes. I usually only work on one window at a time so its not like i'd be putting windows side by side or anything.
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ya i noticed a wide range of quality among the ones at work. some look absolutely amazing and bright and clear and others look pretty crappy and dull. i need to write down the model numbers of the ones i liked. I think they were all dells at work though.
my fear is that the ones i liked are going to be super expensive.
Depending on what you want to do, bright and clear is not neccessarily better. Some LCDs now incorporate a wide-gamut backlight that allows the display to output a wider range of colours. The disadvantage is the total number of colours the display can show hasn't increased, so your colours are a bit "stretched out," so to speak. If you're not that much into post-nuclear apocalypse photography, most photos will look slightly ... off on these monitors because they're way too vivid. This can be remedied by calibration, but that will make gradients look bad if you overdo it. It's a tricky topic.
If you're not into photography or don't care if pictures look like they were taken in teletubby land, you're fine without calibration, though.
Viewing angle is important. Try looking at the displays from above and the sides--any big colour or contrast shifts? (The picture will naturally get darker, as less light is travelling to you)
-huha
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Widescreen websites? Where?
Most websites nowadays have 2 sidebars with the actual content in the middle. I also use the great Tree Style Tabs extension (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5890) in firefox. It's really handy on a widescreen as most sites are indeed not full widescreen yet so there's room on the sides. Doing the same on a normal width monitor might cram the website together.
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What huha said
You kind of get what you pay for when it comes to LCD's. My brother went through two monitors before settling on a Dell Ultrasharp, and his HP and Asus had some horrible vignetting around the edges after about a year. Getting one for $200 might be a bargain, but expect it to have less than stellar quality, either new or a year old.
Oh, and don't bother with dual monitors. Having dual 19s or having a single 24 is night and day. I use 2 24's at work and find it too much, but I've worked on a single 30 and it was amazing!
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thanks for the tips huha. i'm not into photography but i can see how viewing angle is pretty important, esp on a big screen.
tree style tabs - like a table of contents for the website you're viewing. nice.
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What huha said
You kind of get what you pay for when it comes to LCD's. My brother went through two monitors before settling on a Dell Ultrasharp, and his HP and Asus had some horrible vignetting around the edges after about a year. Getting one for $200 might be a bargain, but expect it to have less than stellar quality, either new or a year old.
Oh, and don't bother with dual monitors. Having dual 19s or having a single 24 is night and day. I use 2 24's at work and find it too much, but I've worked on a single 30 and it was amazing!
i cant even imagine working on a single 30.
anyone out there working on a 23 or 24 that they like and can recommend? I'll do the usual price comparison shopping but i'd like to come up with a short list of models I guess. Other than the ones i'm going to check out at work.
yea, 200 used maybe.
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I have the Dell 2407WFP-HC and for the most part I like it. The image quality is great, viewing angles are great, power consumption isn't too bad and the optional Dell AS500 Soundbar speakers sound pretty good for small speakers.
The downsides of it are humming from the monitor at certain brightnesses (but I believe this affects a lot of LCD monitors) and ghosting at certain brightness/contrast/gamma settings (this I think is specific to the HC variant of this Dell). Other than those complaints, I think it's a great monitor.
Personally I'd like to try out an Apple Cinema display with LCD backlighting, but I'm not going to go down the "buy every possible type of monitor in the world to see if it's better" as I have done with keyboards.
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I have a 2407WFPb at work and a 2405FPW, they are both part of Dell's "Ultrasharp" line. They are both PVA's - and I honestly like them. Nice even color. I've had my 2405 for about 4 years, and haven't had a problem. Vesa mounted and come with a tilting base (although I use a monitor arm nowadays).
I know Eizo is another nice brand, but can get $$$
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Welcome to the top of the dreaded hardware spiral!
I bought myself a Samsung 245T for home a year or so ago. Completely worth the investment. I absolutely love the screen, and its ability to rotate into portrait mode for coding.
But the whole process went something like this :
1) Ok, invest in a good quality screen as my primary and use my old cheap 22" as a secondary.
2) Crap, my video card can't drive a 22" and a 24". I'll get a new video card.
3) Crap, my motheboard only supports AGP, and everything is PCI-E, ok time to get a new motherboard.
4) Crap, none of the motherboards that support my CPU have PCI-E, so I need a new CPU.
5) And new ram.
6) And a new hard drive....
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lol, good point talis, i'll have to plug my old dell lappie into one of these at work to make sure it can drive it!
otherwise i'm looking at a new laptop too, lol.
i havent owned a desktop in like seven years or so.
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I have 2 19s at work, and I like it more than my 22" Widescreen, but I can't speak for a 24" since that's a different resolution class. What I use my monitors for at work makes more sense with a 2 monitor setup. I post on GH with my main monitor and keep my e-mail up on my auxillary. Seriously, though, I code web apps on my main screen and view in a browser on the auxillary, or I write SQL in the main screen and analyze the results in Excel on the auxillary. In this sense, having 2 monitors keeps different things "separated" with the bezels of the monitors acting like a dividing line. When all of that stuff is on one monitor, the desktop feels cluttered.
See attached. Where the end of the taskbar is is where the monitors split.
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See attached. Where the end of the taskbar is is where the monitors split.
what, we cant read your private emails? :D
just what are you trying to hide? :D
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Well, it's my work PC, and I blocked out people's names for employment reasons.
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You're right tho, you don't really get that much more working space on a bigger screen. No matter how big the screen is, its unlikely going to be large enough to comfortably get two documents of any sort open on it at the same time.
I use 2 17" at work and that works just as well as my home set up for most things, as I tend to just blow everything in the main screen up to full size. I usually have a browser and IM client open on the other screen, along with any other documents I need to reference (PDF data sheets, etc).
Do you have a docking station for your notebook?
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I've got two 22" TN panels...and I regret buying the second panel, because of the narrow viewing angles. I wanted a monitor to flip into portrait mode, but the viewing angle literally hurts the eyes.
However, it does work well for a regular dual-screen setup.
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Do you have a docking station for your notebook?
yes, if you can call this a docking station:
(http://discountoffice.nl/icimages/716850.jpg)
:D Altho its one of the better nicer and heavier hubs i've ever had. (its called the 'kensington dome hub').
so basically I plug in three cables when i'm home (usb to the hub, usb-power to the hub, and vga). plus laptop power supply of course. Its pretty easy.
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In addition to the points already mentioned, it be said that at the same size in pixels, things will actually be slightly smaller on a 24" 1920x1200 screen when compared to a 19" 1280x1024 - 94 ppi vs. 86 ppi. (I made a simple but effective spreadsheet (http://stephan.win31.de/screendpi.ods) for this.)
Widescreen monitors actually are a somewhat better match for TN panels and their inequal viewing angles but I guess only up to a certain size. For me, TN is not an option at all, would be like looking into a tunnel. At my viewing distance even a flat monitor seems slightly curved. As one may guess, a larger monitor than my current 19" would only have me lose the mouse pointer even more often.
And as it's already been said, $200 for a quality 24" is entirely unrealistic, at least new. A good (read: Eizo or NEC with a decent panel) 19" still costs twice that, though one may be able to find a nice used model that doesn't break the bank, or two for a multi-monitor setup.
EDIT:
so basically I plug in three cables when i'm home (usb to the hub, usb-power to the hub, and vga). plus laptop power supply of course. Its pretty easy.
I'm not sure whether I'd want to run 1920x1200 with a notebook's VGA port. Some decent DVI out would be better.
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Very recently, I bought a 24" monitor, the Dell S2409W. Here it is next to my old 19" monitor.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3584&stc=1&d=1249503713)
It's TN but the viewing angle is fine, for me at least. and at €215, it's a bargain!
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I'm not sure whether I'd want to run 1920x1200 with a notebook's VGA port. Some decent DVI out would be better.
That's sort of what I was getting at. Most docking stations have a DVI output as well. At least you can take your laptop with you to the store and try before you buy.
The 245T is a true 8 bit S-PVA (most TN panels are 6 bit) and seems to sell for around $600. I haven't had any issues at all with viewing angle, but it is very slow relative to a TN of the same rated speed (the ghosting is a lot more apparent on it rated at 6ms vs my 9 year old 32ms TN screen).
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In addition to the points already mentioned, it be said that at the same size in pixels, things will actually be slightly smaller on a 24" 1920x1200 screen when compared to a 19" 1280x1024 - 94 ppi vs. 86 ppi. (I made a simple but effective spreadsheet (http://stephan.win31.de/screendpi.ods) for this.)
True. And don't listen to anyone who says you can increase the system font size to easily get around that problem, at least if you use Windows XP. It is not a complete solution, eventually you will get dialogue boxes where there is too much text to show. I've even had them where the click buttons were not visible, and had to use Tab and educated guesswork to make a selection.
P.S. you can fit 2 documents on a 1920x1200 screen if you tile them vertically*. It isn't generous in size, but it's usable. (* I mean side-by-side.)
Using a VGA connection at 1920x1200 can also be OK, depending on the adapter and screen. It would be a crime to do that if you have DVI available, but if you don't it's worth trying.
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I am currently using a Samsung 2433bw, attached to a 3M monitor/notebook combo arm. Works great, and places the monitor at a much more pleasant height and angle than the typical attached monitor stand.
I was real lucky, found the monitors (yes, I bought more than one at risk of significant other stealing mine) at Costco and used a coupon online to put the final price @ $219 before tax.
I spent too much time looking around, scouring the sales, and reading reviews, but I am real happy with what I now have. Almost went with the HP that can be flipped on its side, but really like the picture better on the Samsung. Have it set on 1920 X 1200 and it leaves me a whole lot of room for multiple applications to be used side by side.
Did not go with the dual monitor setup because of hardware issues and wires, etc., and all my friends see my setup and are making the switch to a single unit.
Hope whatever you decide works out for you......Later
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I'm not sure whether I'd want to run 1920x1200 with a notebook's VGA port. Some decent DVI out would be better.
true but if that means buying a new computer i'll prolly have to do a poor man's solution for a while.
also I wouldnt run it at that high a resolution. My eyes cant take it. I'd prolly do 1200 by 1000 range. I dont need screen real estate, I'm happy with how much info I can put on the screen around 1200 pixels; I just want slightly bigger text on it, thats all.
Of course the higher res is nice to have if I ever change my mind. Or try gaming again. Or get into photography.
EDIT:
don't listen to anyone who says you can increase the system font size to easily get around that problem,
ya i've played around with text size and even a magnifier, lol. I mean i'm not blind or anything but when you're in front of the damn thing 10 hours a day, its just really nice to have a big crisp screen.
this would definitely be a luxury item for me, i dont 'need' it in any sense. Especially since all i liked about it is the bigger fonts at same res. Tho i'm sure i'd find other uses for the real estate once I get used to having it.
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Very recently, I bought a 24" monitor, the Dell S2409W. Here it is next to my old 19" monitor.
holy crap it looks so huge
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We're using a couple of Samsung 245T at the office, and I have a Dell 2408WFP at home. They're absolutely beautiful, especially if you calibrate them.
BUT..... each has their flaws. The HDMI port / resolutions seem to work better on the Dell (it also has more ports, like DisplayPort), and the Samsung has a better menu system (IMO). The buttons on the Dell also feel worse than the Samsung's. They seem to activate on one side easier than the other, in pairs. Imagine two arrows pointed at each other. That's where they activate easy. Repeat that three times, and add another arrow for the power button. You pretty much can't even push it on the opposite side. Bizarre.
The backlight on the Samsung is better - It's brighter on the left of the Dell and top left corner too. It's a known issue with a bunch of them though I don't think it effects them all.
Both displays, due to the nature of the panels types they use, have a high input latency. I have noticed when playing games, especially where timing is a critical issue. If you're going to play games with require precise timing or split second reaction, you might want to use a TN display instead. For other types, you might be fine learning the delay and compensating for it.
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Check panel types.
I bought a Soyo Topaz S (MVA panel) when they were $300. Now a similar panel would cost $600, even though I can get a 24 of TN panel for 200 or so.
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thanks for the tips everyone. keep 'em coming if you have more.
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Like Hak Foo I picked up one of the Soyo Topaz S 24 back when they were $299 and I really love it. But one thing I have found is that the 24" monitors are really hard to get setup just right so that you don't end up with neck problems/pains. This problem mostly affects vertical position more than horizontal. So you get it set up so that you can look at it dead on but if you need to read text either at the top or bottom you tend to bend your neck to see it. Also through out the day as you shift sitting positions it puts your head in the wrong position to look at the monitor dead on. Unlike smaller monitors you really need to look at the 24" dead on or you will be bending your neck allot to beable to see the whole thing. At times this has caused me some minor neck pain. What I did to reduce this problem is I bought a good Ergotron monitor arm now as I change sitting postions though out the day I just reach out and push the monitor to where I can focus on it correctly with out having to move my neck around as much. Oh and as far as rotating it 180 the Ergotron I have will let me do that and I tried using it that way for a bit but again found that I had to move my neck too much to see the top and bottom of the screen again causing neck pain. I really need to train my eyes to move more and do less neck movement but at least for me that has been a little harder to do than it sounds.
Also like you my old eyes are not nearly as good as they used to be so my monitor sits at about arm length away from me. And when I get new glasses I have the doctor write me a prescription for reading glasses where the focus is right at arm length. This helps allot. With these glasses on I have no problem reading the screen at all. With my normal glasses I have eye strain and can't really focus on the screen as well as I should be able to.
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After all these years of using computers and staring at various good and bad CRTs and LCDs, I still have the bad habit of eventually leaning into the screen more, to be able to read or look at something.
No matter what you use, don't forget to reset your posture and move around a bit every few minutes. Rest your eyes, focus on something else once in awhile. :) Sometimes you don't notice your bad position until some starts aching or getting tired.
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I recently started using Gunnar eye glasses. You might have seen them, yellow, supposedly made to fit your face in such a way as to keep your eyes moist, stylish, and unfortunately expensive. Oakleys for the computer crowd.
There is a lot of hype about these glasses, but I can tell you that they actually work. I cannot sit down and read a magazine or newspaper much better than without, but when I am working on the computer they allow me much more face time with my monitor before my eyes start complaining.
I really should be wearing my cheaters, but these allow me a little vanity. Of course, all things come with a price!
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I recently started using Gunner eye glasses. You might have seen them, yellow, supposedly made to fit your face in such a way as to keep your eyes moist, stylish, and unfortunately expensive. Oakleys for the computer crowd.
There is a lot of hype about these glasses, but I can tell you that they actually work. I cannot sit down and read a magazine or newspaper much better than without, but when I am working on the computer they allow me much more face time with my monitor before my eyes start complaining.
I really should be wearing my cheaters, but these allow me a little vanity. Of course, all things come with a price!
Hey MsKeyboard. I've been using these (http://www.gunnars.com/) as well - for about the last 3 weeks. I've always been very prone to eye strain/fatigue and related headaches. I don't need or use eyeglasses or reading glasses. I actually have a pair of Prio glasses I got maybe 5 years ago and ended up finding them not very effective. These Gunnars definitely help relieve eye strain.
What frame style did you get Ms?
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With out my prescription glasses my monitor is just a blur. But I would think that the yellow tint on those gunner glasses would cause a colour shift on your monitor.
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Bitflipper,
Thats too funny, maybe they are just marketing more in AZ. Ya, I spelled the name wrong, will have to go back and fix that, don't want to upset them.
I received a pair from a vendor earlier this year, the red Bit Surfer's, and received a titanium pair of the Edge's as a gift a couple days later. I actually really like them, and even though they are slightly different, they don't feel or wear different.
The part that is amazing is that they are so light you forget you even have them on. Someone will come walking in the door, look at me funny for a minute or so before I remember I'm wearing them. I had to quit letting people try them on though, got tired of fighting to get them back.
Where did you find yours? We considered carrying them, but kind of like the Topre, they are priced for those willing to buy comfort. I can get them though, so let me know if you ever "need" another pair.....Later
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Ripster,
Scarlett Johansson is putting off that Drew Carey vibe! Not loving it (claws come out). It is amazing how fashion makes the rounds.
I would think that the yellow tint on those gunner glasses would cause a colour shift on your monitor.
rdjack21,
That is supposed to be one of the selling points. The tint was picked specifically for use with monitors. As I said before, I can't read the paper with them (at least not any better than without them), but they really do make the screen crisp and clean.
The reviews are mixed, but I really like mine.....Later
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the gunnar's look interesting, tho i already wear glasses so i couldnt really use them unless i went back to contact lenses.
but - why does the gunnar description say they shouldnt be used as sunglasses? they look like the sunglasses bono wears these days.
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In AZ, it's really important to take care of your eyes. I never leave home without my shades. And I use the Gunnars more and more at the computer.
I've known about them for a while, but recently I saw an article somewhere about some guys from hardocp.com (http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/06/19/gunnar_optiks_digital_performance_eyewear/) trying them out and liking them. I picked mine up straight from gunnars.com (http://www.gunnars.com/). I'm sure I'll lose them or destroy them at some point, so I'll be calling you. They just announced their sunglasses - can you get those as well?
I inadvertently leave them on and walk away from the computer. They're very subtle, but they have a nice way of enhancing the LCD screen. I'll reserve judgement as to the eye strain relief until I've used them a bit longer.
My Prios are frameless, so I got the Halogens which are more curved like goggles or sunglasses. Funny, they look great on the website, but I don't care for the way they look on me.
Expensive? I think I paid over $300 for my Prios. I have no clue how much eyeglasses cost. If they help, they're worth the price. IMHO, of course.
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the gunnar's look interesting, tho i already wear glasses so i couldnt really use them unless i went back to contact lenses.
but - why does the gunnar description say they shouldnt be used as sunglasses? they look like the sunglasses bono wears these days.
They do have an option for prescription (http://www.gunnars.com/faq/#Q4).
Q: How can I get a pair of prescription Gunnars?
A: Please visit your nearest authorized Gunnar Rx dealer. You can find a list of our Rx dealers under “Retailers” tab on our website.
The amber tint is probably counterproductive in the sunlight and they're probably not optomized for viewing longer distances.
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btw there's apparently a 25% off gunnar e-coupon (http://gizmodo.com/5276155/25-off-gunnar-optiks-eye-strain+reducing-computer-glasses) floating around.
here's gizmodo's review of gunnar (http://gizmodo.com/5046530/lightning-review-gunnar-optiks-eye-strain+reducing-computer-glasses).
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I bought a new computer recently and wanted to buy two "regular" 19" monitors from Samsung. Turns out that you are lucky if you can still get one with a 5:4 resolution, 4:3 seems impossible for affordable LCD's.
In the end, it took a few months before the first Samsung 943N arrived (something to do with the supplier), so when the second one was even more delayed I got myself a wide-screen.
Originally I intended to go for a 23" which could be switched to portrait mode, but when that particular model went out of stock, I splashed out and got a Samsung 2443BW (16:10) instead.
Now it has a few particular things. The good:
-large screen area, taller as the 19".
-comes with a foot to adjust height and rotation.
-looks decent for a TN panel.
The bad:
-has problems with its vertical viewing angle, meaning you have to sit right in front of it when in portrait mode.
-makes a long screen, meaning you have to look up to read what is on the top of the screen.
Also, my nvidia card can't rotate image on the wide-screen in Linux when I glue the screens together. That is probably only a problem for people using Linux as their primary OS though.
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One more point about the Dell 2407WFP-HC - the upscaling is decent and allows you to enforce the original aspect ratio. For example if you're playing an older game at 1024x768, it will stretch it vertically to 1200 pixels height but maintain the aspect ratio instead of filling the entire screen (although you can choose to have it do that if you so wish). At the time I bought it, some of the other monitors always stretched to fit the screen.
It might not be as much of an issue these days now that GPU scaling is available on both ATI and nVidia hardware.
Oh, and DVI and VGA are fine (and the DVI input supports HDCP) but the regular analogue inputs (Component, Composite and S-Video) are a bit crap because it doesn't have a deinterlacer unlike the previous model. This doesn't matter for DVI and VGA but will be an issue if you want to connect something like a Nintendo Wii to it.
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I actually really liked the 30" HP monitor (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/new-desk1.jpg) I had for a while. But when I replaced my 15.4" MBP with a blackbook, I could no longer use it (due to lack of dual link DVI). Of course, now I have an alum MB which could drive the 30" just fine.
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I might have to check out some prescription Gunnars (I have an astigmatism) as I sit in front of my rig at work for 11-12 hours a day. One thing I have always done at home and here at the office is to turn the lights down. This way, the monitor is slightly brighter than the ambient light, so you are not competing with the light in the room to see the monitor. Just don't turn the lights all the way off as that will just create eye strain from too much brightness. Doing this has really cut down on the eyestrain and headaches. It also gives the office a romantic feel.
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I have the Dell 2407 too but keep thinking about the 30. I wonder if it's too big though (I would think neck strain does become an issue at some point) and should compromise on a 27" (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=223-9379).
It doesn't give you any additional screen real estate over a typical 24". The only reason I go bigger monitor-wise is to gain pixels.
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itlnstln,
I really like the idea of turning the lights down, never thought of that. Kind of hard in our office situation most of the time, but probably a good way to end the day. I also put in TOO much time at home nights in front of the tv working on the laptop without the lights on, maybe some lighting would be better per your information.
It also gives the office a romantic feel
This plays on a whole other meaning to "clean up on isle 5"
Later.........
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This plays on a whole other meaning to "clean up on isle 5"
Later.........
LOL, nice. I might work in the grocery biz, but in my line of work, though, it would be more like a "SQL injection attack."
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I would go with CRT whenever I could because of their perfect viewing angle, durability, and price. My computer is a laptop, however, so I have little choice unless I want to look like an idiot using my laptop.
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If you have the space and can find a decent one there is no reason to not buy a CRT. The only reason not to would be if you didn't have the space or you didn't want to have to drive over to collect one if you couldn't find someone to deliver. Ideally it's nice to have one CRT and one LCD as then you can use them together as dual monitors and get more life out of your CRT.
A high quality CRT can't be beat in colour reproduction, clarity, viewing angle and especially ability to handle motion. Obviously the advantages of a CRT are less if you don't play multiplayer computer games however I still much prefer my CRT for most applications. Especially photoshop when I want photoreal colours. It all depends on what you use it for I guess and the availability of CRT monitors to you, as well as do you want to sacrifice the room on your desktop for one of these.
At the end of the day CRTs are extremely cheap now and so you could save a lot of money which could be spent on keyboards I guess :D plus you get better quality that you get with an LCD. If you've got the space I'd go for it. Some people are satisfied with LCDs at the end of the day and that's fine, just like some people will be satisfied with rubber dome or membrane keyboards. Each to his own. After a bit of tweaking the colour reproduction on the TFTs aren't that bad I guess. I suppose I'm a bit of a CRT fanatic.
Edit : If I used a laptop, I would connect it to an external screen at home and use it like a desktop with a separate keyboard and mouse and then when I was out use it as a functional laptop. I don't think it would make you look like an idiot :D
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in manhattan you regularly see 19" CRT's just abandoned on the sidewalk. I bet most of them still work.
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I wonder if any of them are decent. As long as you get a version with a Sony Trinitron or a Mitsubishi Diamondtron it should be a top notch monitor plus a flatscreen CRT is so much nicer than a rounded screen.
Is your 19" TFT 5:4 aspect ratio?
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I wonder if any of them are decent. As long as you get a version with a Sony Trinitron or a Mitsubishi Diamondtron it should be a top notch monitor plus a flatscreen CRT is so much nicer than a rounded screen.
Is your 19" TFT 5:4 aspect ratio?
if you mean is it 'regular' and not 'widescreen', then yes :)
I dont want an old crt anymore tho. Too heavy (i'm still a student and move around a lot), takes up too much desk space, and uses too much electricity. I know the picture on them can be perfectly nice though.
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Well it depends on what you are going to use it for I guess. I used to check behardware however it seems there are no new articles there for over a year now :/
If you play a lot of games or you are on a budget then I guess a TN-panel would suit you.
If you do a lot of photoshopping etc I guess a pva panel would be best suited.
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I might have to check out some prescription Gunnars (I have an astigmatism)
Are you sure you don't mean stigmata (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GgR2NMMsZ0) ? :heh:
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I thought that was plant related but I was probably mixing up Stigma and Stomata :/
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A stigma is some kind of mark, usually with a negative connotation. It also means dot though, and an astigmatism means that dots get bent out of shape (into some kind of lines) by the optical system. Have a bit of same, too.
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A stigma is some kind of mark, usually with a negative connotation. It also means dot though, and an astigmatism means that dots get bent out of shape (into some kind of lines) by the optical system. Have a bit of same, too.
The lens of my eye looks like a football (or a rugby ball for the non-Americans). Without my glasses, everything looks like one of those old-school 3D movies if you didn't wear the red and blue glasses.
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Without my glasses, everything looks like one of those old-school 3D movies if you didn't wear the red and blue glasses.
Does this mean you can watch those 3D movies without wearing the glasses? :heh: (kidding)
Everything's fuzzy without my glasses - can't read signs at long distances, etc. I don't believe I have any other conditions though (i.e. astigmatism). I think I still have my first pair of glasses around somewhere from grade 10. My glasses have been getting smaller and lighter over the years.
My way of dealing with having to stare at screens all day isn't to get more glasses, but buy the highest quality display you can afford, set native resolution for LCDs, or whatever you want for CRTs, sit back and relax. Something I don't do enough is to take a break, look at and refocus your eyes on something other than the screen. Although this summer we seem to have an influx staff that are easy on the eyes.
Oh, and to divurge further from the topic.. gotta love ill will press.. My current favourites are Amityville Toaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KyRCQp32p8) and Kavorkian Scarf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwacyhwgEto) :D
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Well a plug for Eizo is my right monitor has 27275 hours of usage and is still going strong so even though they are super expensive they last forever.
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An MVA with low input lag is the best monitor in my opinion as it does everything very well.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1032393379
This is the one I am using (I got it for $260 shipped). It is often rebranded. The one I am actually using is called the SVA 2400w. It also comes as a Soyo. Careful though, they often mix and match TN and MVA's in there.
I definitely recommend an MVA over a TN. I have a solid TN (HP) right next to my budget MVA and I can tell you that the MVA is much much better. The more expensive option is the IPS which is for professional graphic designers for its accurate colors and insane viewing angles. They cost a lot more but there was a sale for a great H-IPS one for $400 just a few days back (24"). The SVA 2400W I'm using appears to be discontinued. Oh well, good luck. In my opinion, mechanical is to MVA as TN is to membrane. Once you switch, you'll realize how bad the old one was.
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I've seen a lot of computer displays and even the higher quality ips panels which are 8-bit rather than 6-bit like most TN panels, utilising dithering in order to replicate 24-bit colouring they all paled in comparison to high end CRTs.
I would say a good TFT is like a good rubber dome keyboard, and the CRT is the mechanical. However if you are going to get an LCD if you can get one of these with an MVA panel and as low input lag as they claim I guess you could do a lot worse :)
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I would say a good TFT is like a good rubber dome keyboard, and the CRT is the mechanical.
Then a good TFT would have to be something like a Topre though. Not a fan of that analogy.
In any case, one should be careful with super bargain monitors. These may not have brightness adjustment via the backlight but rather a fixed backlight brightness with the panel taking care of the rest. If you want to run these at medium or low brightness, the contrast will be pretty lousy, not to mention the gamma being pretty far off. I'd rather have a tiny bit of brightness-dependent hum from the monitor (though the better constructions should be pretty much free of that).
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But the whole process went something like this :
They do still sell PCI video cards, get something crappy that's the same brand as your current card (ATI and nVidia usually don't play well together,) and use that. ;)
You're right tho, you don't really get that much more working space on a bigger screen. No matter how big the screen is, its unlikely going to be large enough to comfortably get two documents of any sort open on it at the same time.
Eh, once you get 2048 pixels wide, it becomes better. I can work with 2 documents with room to spare on my 2048x1536 15" panel in my ThinkPad. And, the IBM T221s that I'm getting are 3840x2400 22.2", which is a resolution and size specifically selected to reach 200 PPI (204, actually,) and be able to display two letter or A4 pages at 100% zoom side by side.
also I wouldnt run it at that high a resolution. My eyes cant take it. I'd prolly do 1200 by 1000 range. I dont need screen real estate, I'm happy with how much info I can put on the screen around 1200 pixels; I just want slightly bigger text on it, thats all.
For the correct aspect ratio, 1280x800 is a standard resolution that would look right. If you want to go to ~1000 pixels, there's 1440x900 and 1680x1050 on either side. One thing to keep in mind with an LCD, though, is that you'll lose crispness if you run anything other than the optimal resolution or something that it's divisible by, and the next lowest resolution that'll divide evenly is 960x600, which is too low for normal use.
There are actually some people on IBM_T2X_LCD that don't ever run their monitors at full resolution, and only got them because 3840x2400 scales down to more useful resolutions evenly than 1920x1200 does, and it also has smaller spaces between pixels due to the very high DPI. (3840x2400 scales down to 1920x1200 and 1280x800 evenly.) Of course, most of the discussion among those with the need for vision correction is where to get cheap glasses, and how to write your own scrip to get T221-optimized glasses. :lol: (Apparently there's some $39 glasses site that they all like.)
Is your 19" TFT 5:4 aspect ratio?
if you mean is it 'regular' and not 'widescreen', then yes :)
4:3 is "regular," 5:4 is actually closer to square than a regular screen. But, a lot of 19" CRTs are optimized for 1280x1024, a 5:4 resolution.
Anyway, on the topic of panel types... I've not used a *VA panel for an extended period of time. Small TN panels don't bother me, but that's because I can have the entire panel in my field of vision. I like IPS panels, and don't mind the horrendous latency. 25 ms is a very good IPS panel even today - my last three IPS panels have been a 35 ms 12.1" 1400x1050 panel from 2007, a 30 ms 15" 1600x1050 panel from 2006, and a "30 ms" (more like 60 ms overdriven - you can see it actually bounce around the new target color for a while) 15" 2048x1536 panel from 2004. That said, I don't mind it for gaming - motion blur is important for smoothing out the picture, and makes lower framerates acceptable.
However, viewing angles are downright excellent, and so is color reproduction. The main issue (other than slow response time) is a "color grain" effect, and AFFS (BOE-Hydis's IPS patent dodge) panels are much better about that (but still, the ThinkPad X61 Tablet is the grainiest display I've seen, and that is AFFS. Color grain on an IPS display is caused by coatings distorting the light. Matte coatings do just that. IDTech's IPS panels tend to have "semi-matte" coatings - enough just so that the grain isn't really noticeable, but it's not glossy.)
Basically, I'd put it like this: TN is the rubber dome. Some are better than others, they are fast (just like rubber domes are quiet - something that's a big deal to some people,) but their viewing angles aren't great, and their color reproduction isn't always great. *VA is the Cherry MX (I specifically didn't say the stem color, I'm sure there's a Cherry black of *VAs.) Some are slower, some are decently fast (although a good TN tends to be faster,) they have decent viewing angles, and decent color reproduction. IPS is the Topre in price, and the buckling spring in most other ways - color reproduction (feel) is excellent, viewing angles are perfect (170 degrees on the WORST of them, and mine's a 170 panel that's more like 180,) but they're SLOW and sometimes annoying with the color shimmer if the coatings aren't done right.
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A lot a older 19" TFTs were 5:4 commonly however I don't understand why 4:3 CRTs have a suggested optimal resolution which is 5:4 I much prefer correct aspect ratio and use 1280*960
However I can't see how you can leave CRTs out your analogy. I would say most people who try mechanical keyboards would prefer them over cheap rubber domes. Although some may prefer cherry blue switch, cherry brown or buckling springs.
The higher quality of CRTs isn't opinionated however, in tests performed on these monitors CRTs came out better in all aspects. I can understand people not wanting one due to the huge size and weight of them. Surely though if you look at a high end CRT and a high end TFT you can see for yourself which looks better.
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It wasn't a monitor analogy, it was a LCD panel analogy. ;)
And, while I'm at it, the Virtually Indestructible Keyboard would be a passive matrix display. ;)
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Oh I guess I misunderstood. It's sad that they still don't make CRTs I think there is a small market out there of people who buy them. I dunno if it would be enough to make a significant enough profit margin. Also I am assuming that CRTs are nowhere near as cost effective as LCD considering LCDs seem to be always dropping in price whereas decent CRTs always remained at a fairly high price.