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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: drewba on Thu, 08 January 2015, 16:11:56

Title: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: drewba on Thu, 08 January 2015, 16:11:56
Unsure if this should be in the "Projects" subforum, mods feel free to move.

I've had great luck dying various plastics in the past (discs, paintball gun bolts, R/C car parts) so I've been reading up on dying PBT keycaps. If all goes according to plan I'd like to create a guide, perhaps even a video.

Two questions:
1. Geekkeys top printed PBT keycaps (http://www.geekkeys.com/top-printed-pbt-104-keyset/) are a few dollars cheaper than their blank PBT keycaps. What will happen to the legends when they are dyed? I'm not familiar enough with laser-etched-printing. I think a cool effect could be created if the black legends remain while using black/gray dye (similar to the dark gray HHKB (https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/pdkb400b_corner1000_th620x400.jpg)). If the legends disappear, then I still saved a few dollars by purchasing the printed PBT keyset.

2. Will dye penetrate the plastic of the keycap when heat is applied? I had a (crazy?) idea to attempt to find some heat resistant tape, cut it into a thin strip and wrap it around the keycap to create some sort of design. If the dye will only stick if it contacts the surface of the keycap, there might be some opportunity to get creative.

I appreciate the help!
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 16:19:01
1.  The laser etched should be fine.  It's burning the legend onto the cap.  If it was lasered and infilled, that might cause some issues.

2.  You should be able to mask off parts, but you'll have bleeding most likely.  And the tape may bond with the cap or other issues. It's worth testing on some caps though.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: drewba on Thu, 08 January 2015, 16:44:03
Quote from: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 16:19:01
1.  The laser etched should be fine.  It's burning the legend onto the cap.  If it was lasered and infilled, that might cause some issues.

2.  You should be able to mask off parts, but you'll have bleeding most likely.  And the tape may bond with the cap or other issues. It's worth testing on some caps though.

Thanks for the info nubbinator - can you give me an example of keycaps that are lasered and infilled so I know what to avoid?

I'll definitely test out tape masking!
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 16:56:40
It's tough to tell.  Unless they explicitly say or others have done the research, it can be impossible to tell sometimes.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:03:19
Here's an example of what can turn out with lasered keycaps for you
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/20131015_133611_zps078c1adb.jpg)
Keys were 2tone to start off with, but I cooked the darker ones for way longer on purpose to make it more obvious.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:12:44
Dye subbed legends tend to bleed bad.  Well the set I had tried out that was dyed with dye subbed legends had bad bleeding issues with the legends.  I do not have the caps anymore and I don't think I took pictures of them before sending them off.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:22:55
Quote from: Melvang on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:12:44
Dye subbed legends tend to bleed bad.  Well the set I had tried out that was dyed with dye subbed legends had bad bleeding issues with the legends.  I do not have the caps anymore and I don't think I took pictures of them before sending them off.

Did you use Rit or Dylon?  I had no noticeable bleed on my Model M I did with iDye Poly.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: drewba on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:26:12
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:03:19
Here's an example of what can turn out with lasered keycaps for you
Show Image
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/20131015_133611_zps078c1adb.jpg)

Keys were 2tone to start off with, but I cooked the darker ones for way longer on purpose to make it more obvious.
Thanks for the picture. Are you happy with the result?


Quote from: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:22:55
Did you use Rit or Dylon?  I had no noticeable bleed on my Model M I did with iDye Poly.

I've read a few places that RIT has changed their recipe and to stay away. Would you recommend idye poly over dylon?
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:28:11
I have no experience with Dylon.  I know from my own experience that iDye Poly is awesome.  It works quick, but smells bad, and dyed a Unicomp Model M case.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:29:37
I was fine with the way it turned out, though I mostly just did it for something to try. I didn't end up keeping it afterwards.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:41:30
Quote from: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:22:55
Quote from: Melvang on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:12:44
Dye subbed legends tend to bleed bad.  Well the set I had tried out that was dyed with dye subbed legends had bad bleeding issues with the legends.  I do not have the caps anymore and I don't think I took pictures of them before sending them off.

Did you use Rit or Dylon?  I had no noticeable bleed on my Model M I did with iDye Poly.

I don't know.  I got them already dyed.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:03:33
I keep referring to this one, especially reply # 14:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453)
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: drewba on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:06:56
Quote from: fohat.digs on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:03:33
I keep referring to this one, especially reply # 14:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444.msg658453#msg658453)
Yeah I found that post earlier, the detail in that post is much appreciated.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:07:28
Is idye poly easy to get? I want to dye my hhkb's caps.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: drewba on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:23:40
Quote from: Joey Quinn on Thu, 08 January 2015, 19:07:28
Is idye poly easy to get? I want to dye my hhkb's caps.

You're in chicago, no? Dikc Blick carries it.

edit - ok that's hilarious, d.i.c.k. is apparently censored on GH. Won't even let me post the link without breaking it. Mods pls no banerino.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 09 January 2015, 14:24:09
**** Blick idye Poly (http://www.****blick.com/products/jacquard-idye-for-polyesternylon/)

No problem here... perhaps you have the filter on? You can turn it off... modify profile, look and layout, check leave words uncensored.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: drewba on Fri, 09 January 2015, 14:40:48
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 09 January 2015, 14:24:09
**** Blick idye Poly (http://www.****blick.com/products/jacquard-idye-for-polyesternylon/)

No problem here... perhaps you have the filter on? You can turn it off... modify profile, look and layout, check leave words uncensored.
Hahaha that's how you fix that then! Thanks Ivan!
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 16 January 2015, 06:51:59
Quote from: drewba on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:26:12
Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:03:19
Here's an example of what can turn out with lasered keycaps for you
Show Image
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/20131015_133611_zps078c1adb.jpg)

Keys were 2tone to start off with, but I cooked the darker ones for way longer on purpose to make it more obvious.
Thanks for the picture. Are you happy with the result?


Quote from: nubbinator on Thu, 08 January 2015, 18:22:55
Did you use Rit or Dylon?  I had no noticeable bleed on my Model M I did with iDye Poly.

I've read a few places that RIT has changed their recipe and to stay away. Would you recommend idye poly over dylon?

As a dylon user, I find dylon works well and predictably. I've heard plenty of mixed stuff about RIT though. If you are living in a country where you can buy both, I strongly suggest just buying the dylon.
Title: Re: Dying PBT - Questions
Post by: drewba on Fri, 16 January 2015, 16:52:46
Quote from: berserkfan on Fri, 16 January 2015, 06:51:59
As a dylon user, I find dylon works well and predictably. I've heard plenty of mixed stuff about RIT though. If you are living in a country where you can buy both, I strongly suggest just buying the dylon.
Thanks, I won't even bother with RIT.

Keycaps are purchased, I'll put up some pictures when I'm all done.