geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Backward_Pawn on Mon, 12 January 2015, 11:33:27
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Hi all,
I currently own a Filco Ninja and have been satisfied with the mx brown keys. I know people say they feel like they have sand in them, but I really don't notice that. When I press a key very slowly, I can feel a definite tactile feedback. While typing and gaming, I really don't notice the feedback anymore, but psychologically, it must have some impact since I'm able to type without bottoming out or making too many mistakes.
Back when I bought this keyboard, the big argument on geekhack was whether one should go with blue or brown, as most found black too stiff. I couldn't get blue, as late night gaming sessions would probably have kept my niece and nephew awake in the next room.
Red, back then, was a mythical beast akin to a dragon that was either unavailable or too expensive to justify the difference. As it was, I had to get a Filco to find a tenkeyless board (Ducky and some others had it, but it wasn't common place), and my original goal back then was to find a keyboard to fit on my small desk tray. My obsession with mechanical switches grew out of the need for a tenkeyless.
Now I'm looking for a full sized keyboard that will be used almost exclusively for gaming, but from a lapdesk on my couch. MX Red no longer requires a Tolkienesk quest to obtain and nobody looks at you funny when you say you dropped $150 on a keyboard. And the love browns used to receive here has turned into a mix of ambivalence or hate (how times change).
While I really want to try reds, I have two problems. One is that I view a keyboard as a multifunctional device. While the full sized board won't fit on my current desk, I find it hard to justify buying a keyboard that I can't type on if I ever get a better desk. Also, from a gaming prospective, I'm not sure if the keys will be too light when using it from a couch and I like the tactile feedback for double taps (though I can probably bottom out as quickly as I can feel the feedback).
Would you stick with the devil you know or try something different? It is returnable if I don't like the reds, I'd rather not go through the hassle, though.
On a side-note, I've been slowly working through adding an accountancy certificate to my degree. The first program I was in fell apart when they couldn't find professors for the upper level courses in the satellite school (its an extension of where I earned my degree, but a different city). I tried the community college and found that you had to stay up all night doing busy work, if you expected to keep a full time job and complete their program. Eventually I may transfer my credits into the actual university near where I live. So that would be another reason to buy a brown keyboard (but I can always get an Adesso keypad later).
As you can see, I'm leaning toward brown for practicality, but my current intended use is gaming and if red really is better that's I'll get; so if the fact that I'm at my couch isn't going to make accidental key presses too easy, I've already got a brown for typing.
Sorry for the long message; I didn't mean to type so much, but I so love typing on this keyboard. If only my office would buy me one...
Thanks.
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nobody looks at you funny when you say you dropped $150 on a keyboard.
I wouldn't go that far....
It's entirely personal preference. People say that blues are the worst for gaming but many professional gamers use blues. Hell, some even use rubber domes. Razer, which makes keyboards with the only purpose of gaming makes keyboards with switches that mimic blues and browns, not reds or blacks. It even sounds like you like the browns for gaming, so if I were you, I would not switch unless you were really curious. No one switch is "better" for gaming. If you like the browns you can stick with them. I wish you the best in the future!
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Thanks. I think I will stick with brown then. I get the impression most people buying reds are coming off rubberdomes (or maybe blacks) and it feels closer to what they're used to. I found one argument that browns made it impossible to complete certain moves in a FPS. I thought it was laughable because browns don't impede anything, they just let you know you pressed a key.
I can see why people don't like them if the key presses pull them out of the game, but once I got used to them I never had that problem.
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Thanks. I think I will stick with brown then. I get the impression most people buying reds are coming off rubberdomes (or maybe blacks) and it feels closer to what they're used to. I found one argument that browns made it impossible to complete certain moves in a FPS. I thought it was laughable because browns don't impede anything, they just let you know you pressed a key.
I can see why people don't like them if the key presses pull them out of the game, but once I got used to them I never had that problem.
nobody looks at you funny when you say you dropped $150 on a keyboard.
I wouldn't go that far....
Yeah, I guess that was a bit of overstatement, but the fact that you can find them in Best Buy now, means people are buying them.
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Razer, which makes keyboards with the only purpose of gaming makes keyboards with switches that mimic blues and browns, not reds or blacks.
Razer also makes low quality, ****ty bottom-row layout, crappy quality control switches keyboards. Don't you ever mention "Razer" again in a serious keyboard-discussion.
Steelseries, which makes keyboards with the only purpose of gaming makes keyboards with switches that are MX Blacks, not browns or blues.
See ... works in both ways.
Personally, I'm using MX Blues for typing and MX Blacks for gaming. I could never imagine myself gaming on tactile switches. Never. The tactile feedback would bother me so hardcore while fast doubletapping and hammering the keys.
I would go with reds. The only reason I'm using blacks for gaming is because I couldn't find a qfr with reds.
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I guess I'll have to try reds and see what I think. I'll try the local Best Buy or MicroCenter if they have any in stock. If not, I'll order one and exchange it for brown if it doesn't work out. BTW, SteelSeries does make one of their keyboards with MX Reds now.
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Clicky ALPS/Buckling Spring = Typing
Clicky MX = Trash
Linear = Gaming
Tactile non click = Compromise
Doesn't hold true for everyone. Use what makes you happy.
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Game on what ever you like. It makes such little difference. It's much more about what feels good. I used to love red for gaming. Now I use whatever I fancy. Which is mostly topre
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Thanks. I think I will stick with brown then. I get the impression most people buying reds are coming off rubberdomes (or maybe blacks) and it feels closer to what they're used to. I found one argument that browns made it impossible to complete certain moves in a FPS. I thought it was laughable because browns don't impede anything, they just let you know you pressed a key.
I can see why people don't like them if the key presses pull them out of the game, but once I got used to them I never had that problem.
No way. I made the switch from reds to browns and I'm not looking back. Reds provide a nice gaming experience but browns serve both gaming and typing purposes really well, imo. In an FPS like Quake, browns allow me to quickly and precisely double-tap and aim/dodge for better accuracy. With reds, I sometimes 'missed' when I had to quickly dodge left to right due to not actuating the key. Browns are legit!
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Since you are comfortable w/ and like MX browns I would suggest to stick w/ them. MX Red's will most likely give you grief because of the missing tactile feedback. IMHO MX red's are targeted at 1st time mechanical board users that grew up on rubber domes (used to bottoming out, now with very little effort!)
Edit: Heh, note to self: read whole thread before posting. Looks like you came to the same conclusion :)
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Reds are best for 9/10 games. If it's something that requires less APM than an ARTS, literally any switch is fine. If you're playing starcraft or something reds are fine, but blues are better. I can't think of more examples than that where reds aren't the #1.
I use reds for pretty much every game.
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Razer, which makes keyboards with the only purpose of gaming makes keyboards with switches that mimic blues and browns, not reds or blacks.
Razer also makes low quality, ****ty bottom-row layout, crappy quality control switches keyboards. Don't you ever mention "Razer" again in a serious keyboard-discussion.
Steelseries, which makes keyboards with the only purpose of gaming makes keyboards with switches that are MX Blacks, not browns or blues.
See ... works in both ways.
Personally, I'm using MX Blues for typing and MX Blacks for gaming. I could never imagine myself gaming on tactile switches. Never. The tactile feedback would bother me so hardcore while fast doubletapping and hammering the keys.
I would go with reds. The only reason I'm using blacks for gaming is because I couldn't find a qfr with reds.
I think you're wrong, they make really good mouse-mats for one, and although they're knee-deep into that "gamer" looking baloney, I wouldnt go as far as to say that everything they make is purely crapola. And to be honest, their Black Widow Ultimate does not posses too many of those "extreme gamur" stuff.
And lastly, remember that keyboard switches are preference.
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Reds are best for 9/10 games. If it's something that requires less APM than an ARTS, literally any switch is fine. If you're playing starcraft or something reds are fine, but blues are better. I can't think of more examples than that where reds aren't the #1.
I use reds for pretty much every game.
Listen to Tact^
Here's my preference:
FPS -> Linears. Reds for me. Blues are the worst here.
MOBA -> Anything. I like reds or Topre works perfectly too.
RTS -> Anything, as long as it does not tire you.
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double post for days...
Sorry!
In the end though.. ya gotta go fast.
(http://gforsythe.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/TypingGhostInTheShell1.gif)
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For FPS, I prefer linear switches, since I prefer smoothness while using the movement keys, although for other things like weapon switching, crouch, walk/run, use, communications, flashlight, inventory, map, etc, I prefer having some tactile feedback. This has got me thinking that maybe I should have two different switch types on my gaming keyboard. For example, put red switches on WASD, while all other switches have another switch--maybe a clear or brown switch (although I find brown switch's tactility almost negligible).
Has anyone ever tried that?
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For FPS, I prefer linear switches, since I prefer smoothness while using the movement keys, although for other things like weapon switching, crouch, walk/run, use, communications, flashlight, inventory, map, etc, I prefer having some tactile feedback. This has got me thinking that maybe I should have two different switch types on my gaming keyboard. For example, put red switches on WASD, while all other switches have another switch--maybe a clear or brown switch (although I find brown switch's tactility almost negligible).
Has anyone ever tried that?
My friend uses blue switches for CS:GO (he is SMFC, so hes pretty darn good aimer, and he has movement down pretty much as good as it gets for a player that does not play with a team) and he uses cherry mx blacks only for wasd, and the rest of the keys mx blue. He really really likes it, and plans to make another keyboard set up the same way (he has a numberpad, and its messing with the mouse space quite alot)
He is really good at soldering, and hes made quite a few zombie mice (using a different switch and body for different mice) so I wouldnt really suggest anyone do any of these mods unless you are aware that you're tossing the warrante out the window, and that you're toying with components that are very sensitive. That being said, you're on geekhack; theres a heck of alot of really experienced users on here that are willing to show you how to make amazing keyboards and make amazing mods.
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Have you ever looked into buying a keyswitch tester? I did do that about 3 months before I bought a keyboard, and every day I would make time to try and click every single one over 25 times.(100 total clicks between all the switches) I would record myself, doing this with my phones camera, and I would close my eyes and try to guess the switch. I'd try to trick my future self. Soon, I became a pro at figuring it out. Even could guess between the reds and the blacks quite consistently (although obviously that can be a little tough)
As I grew closer and closer to the switches, I knew there was only one choice. It was the switch that I was excited to hear. But to delve into that region of my brain, now that wasn't an easy task.
I started waking up, and clicking more keys. At this point, I had purchased 2 more keyswitch testers in order to put them around my house. One on the dash, one on my desk, and one under the dining room table. I was averaging roughly 100-200 clicks per switch a day at this point.
Fast forward about 50 days.
I started to break those damn testers with my knife. I would find every single one of them, and rip off the mx black with anger and hatred. It brought me so much joy to see the little spring shoot out of it, and I had over 30 of these testers taped to various parts of my walls and counters. Things like my coffee maker and my cars dashboard were no match for my anger. My blood boiled as I smacked each switch. Like crack I wanted to just hit every switch until I wanted to throw up. there was a little bit of pleasure in every click, right before you bottom out. I wanted every drop of that sweetness. I did everything I could to get it.
I found myself in my room at night, with a pile of keycaps, soaked in urine and blood. My knife lay in my palm, guilty of doling out all the anger I had built in myself. The one key that went before all the others made me feel pathetic. it was stubborn, unwilling and emotionless. I fought it with all my might. Ironically, it was soaked with my crimson blood.
Red. Unlike the previous keycap, this seemed comfortable laying in my blood. We all know, it always had. it was so forgiving, it gave not a damn about whether or not you slapped her, or lightly caressed. It always did as it was told. Without a word. Not a statement. Never approving or disapproving you. It simply just obliged silently. I could not stand. It was slain with blithe. Why were you so cold and easy?
Thirdly, I lain my blade on the loud. Constant approval it gave. Never any constructiveness, just angry, psychotic approval. Like a dog, it gave its attention and affection only to be stroked, never angered or upset by your actions. Though never could I make it whimper or upset, she just laughed and smiled. Methodically. I didn't want love to be given to me, I wanted to fight to keep it, I wanted to steal it away.
my love was to be shared. I wanted to find her to be curious, happy, and to explore each others hearts.
Three gorgeous women destroyed me, and one was left to heal me.
TL;DR I like browns.
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Have you ever looked into buying a keyswitch tester? I did do that about 3 months before I bought a keyboard, and every day I would make time to try and click every single one over 25 times.(100 total clicks between all the switches) I would record myself, doing this with my phones camera, and I would close my eyes and try to guess the switch. I'd try to trick my future self. Soon, I became a pro at figuring it out. Even could guess between the reds and the blacks quite consistently (although obviously that can be a little tough)
As I grew closer and closer to the switches, I knew there was only one choice. It was the switch that I was excited to hear. But to delve into that region of my brain, now that wasn't an easy task.
I started waking up, and clicking more keys. At this point, I had purchased 2 more keyswitch testers in order to put them around my house. One on the dash, one on my desk, and one under the dining room table. I was averaging roughly 100-200 clicks per switch a day at this point.
Fast forward about 50 days.
I started to break those damn testers with my knife. I would find every single one of them, and rip off the mx black with anger and hatred. It brought me so much joy to see the little spring shoot out of it, and I had over 30 of these testers taped to various parts of my walls and counters. Things like my coffee maker and my cars dashboard were no match for my anger. My blood boiled as I smacked each switch. Like crack I wanted to just hit every switch until I wanted to throw up. there was a little bit of pleasure in every click, right before you bottom out. I wanted every drop of that sweetness. I did everything I could to get it.
I found myself in my room at night, with a pile of keycaps, soaked in urine and blood. My knife lay in my palm, guilty of doling out all the anger I had built in myself. The one key that went before all the others made me feel pathetic. it was stubborn, unwilling and emotionless. I fought it with all my might. Ironically, it was soaked with my crimson blood.
Red. Unlike the previous keycap, this seemed comfortable laying in my blood. We all know, it always had. it was so forgiving, it gave not a damn about whether or not you slapped her, or lightly caressed. It always did as it was told. Without a word. Not a statement. Never approving or disapproving you. It simply just obliged silently. I could not stand. It was slain with blithe. Why were you so cold and easy?
Thirdly, I lain my blade on the loud. Constant approval it gave. Never any constructiveness, just angry, psychotic approval. Like a dog, it gave its attention and affection only to be stroked, never angered or upset by your actions. Though never could I make it whimper or upset, she just laughed and smiled. Methodically. I didn't want love to be given to me, I wanted to fight to keep it, I wanted to steal it away.
my love was to be shared. I wanted to find her to be curious, happy, and to explore each others hearts.
Three gorgeous women destroyed me, and one was left to heal me.
TL;DR I like browns.
So what happened to all the blood?
-
Have you ever looked into buying a keyswitch tester? I did do that about 3 months before I bought a keyboard, and every day I would make time to try and click every single one over 25 times.(100 total clicks between all the switches) I would record myself, doing this with my phones camera, and I would close my eyes and try to guess the switch. I'd try to trick my future self. Soon, I became a pro at figuring it out. Even could guess between the reds and the blacks quite consistently (although obviously that can be a little tough)
As I grew closer and closer to the switches, I knew there was only one choice. It was the switch that I was excited to hear. But to delve into that region of my brain, now that wasn't an easy task.
I started waking up, and clicking more keys. At this point, I had purchased 2 more keyswitch testers in order to put them around my house. One on the dash, one on my desk, and one under the dining room table. I was averaging roughly 100-200 clicks per switch a day at this point.
Fast forward about 50 days.
I started to break those damn testers with my knife. I would find every single one of them, and rip off the mx black with anger and hatred. It brought me so much joy to see the little spring shoot out of it, and I had over 30 of these testers taped to various parts of my walls and counters. Things like my coffee maker and my cars dashboard were no match for my anger. My blood boiled as I smacked each switch. Like crack I wanted to just hit every switch until I wanted to throw up. there was a little bit of pleasure in every click, right before you bottom out. I wanted every drop of that sweetness. I did everything I could to get it.
I found myself in my room at night, with a pile of keycaps, soaked in urine and blood. My knife lay in my palm, guilty of doling out all the anger I had built in myself. The one key that went before all the others made me feel pathetic. it was stubborn, unwilling and emotionless. I fought it with all my might. Ironically, it was soaked with my crimson blood.
Red. Unlike the previous keycap, this seemed comfortable laying in my blood. We all know, it always had. it was so forgiving, it gave not a damn about whether or not you slapped her, or lightly caressed. It always did as it was told. Without a word. Not a statement. Never approving or disapproving you. It simply just obliged silently. I could not stand. It was slain with blithe. Why were you so cold and easy?
Thirdly, I lain my blade on the loud. Constant approval it gave. Never any constructiveness, just angry, psychotic approval. Like a dog, it gave its attention and affection only to be stroked, never angered or upset by your actions. Though never could I make it whimper or upset, she just laughed and smiled. Methodically. I didn't want love to be given to me, I wanted to fight to keep it, I wanted to steal it away.
my love was to be shared. I wanted to find her to be curious, happy, and to explore each others hearts.
Three gorgeous women destroyed me, and one was left to heal me.
TL;DR I like browns.
So what happened to all the blood?
It was cleaned up after I got back. Would have taken them a few days if it wasn't for our trusty old rug doctor. Thanks, Pricechopper :D
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Have you ever looked into buying a keyswitch tester? I did do that about 3 months before I bought a keyboard, and every day I would make time to try and click every single one over 25 times.(100 total clicks between all the switches) I would record myself, doing this with my phones camera, and I would close my eyes and try to guess the switch. I'd try to trick my future self. Soon, I became a pro at figuring it out. Even could guess between the reds and the blacks quite consistently (although obviously that can be a little tough)
As I grew closer and closer to the switches, I knew there was only one choice. It was the switch that I was excited to hear. But to delve into that region of my brain, now that wasn't an easy task.
I started waking up, and clicking more keys. At this point, I had purchased 2 more keyswitch testers in order to put them around my house. One on the dash, one on my desk, and one under the dining room table. I was averaging roughly 100-200 clicks per switch a day at this point.
Fast forward about 50 days.
I started to break those damn testers with my knife. I would find every single one of them, and rip off the mx black with anger and hatred. It brought me so much joy to see the little spring shoot out of it, and I had over 30 of these testers taped to various parts of my walls and counters. Things like my coffee maker and my cars dashboard were no match for my anger. My blood boiled as I smacked each switch. Like crack I wanted to just hit every switch until I wanted to throw up. there was a little bit of pleasure in every click, right before you bottom out. I wanted every drop of that sweetness. I did everything I could to get it.
I found myself in my room at night, with a pile of keycaps, soaked in urine and blood. My knife lay in my palm, guilty of doling out all the anger I had built in myself. The one key that went before all the others made me feel pathetic. it was stubborn, unwilling and emotionless. I fought it with all my might. Ironically, it was soaked with my crimson blood.
Red. Unlike the previous keycap, this seemed comfortable laying in my blood. We all know, it always had. it was so forgiving, it gave not a damn about whether or not you slapped her, or lightly caressed. It always did as it was told. Without a word. Not a statement. Never approving or disapproving you. It simply just obliged silently. I could not stand. It was slain with blithe. Why were you so cold and easy?
Thirdly, I lain my blade on the loud. Constant approval it gave. Never any constructiveness, just angry, psychotic approval. Like a dog, it gave its attention and affection only to be stroked, never angered or upset by your actions. Though never could I make it whimper or upset, she just laughed and smiled. Methodically. I didn't want love to be given to me, I wanted to fight to keep it, I wanted to steal it away.
my love was to be shared. I wanted to find her to be curious, happy, and to explore each others hearts.
Three gorgeous women destroyed me, and one was left to heal me.
TL;DR I like browns.
So what happened to all the blood?
It was cleaned up after I got back. Would have taken them a few days if it wasn't for our trusty old rug doctor. Thanks, Pricechopper :D
Hopefully none got in a keyboard. We've had threads about Coke, wine, beer and even cat vomit getting in a keyboard. I don't recall one about blood in a keyboard (yet).
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In the end it comes down to personal preferences. I prefer Browns (for both typing and gaming) since I'm not a fan of linear switches and I mistype on Reds too easily. I find it hard to get used to exactly where the actuation point is for each finger when gaming. I need the tactile feedback.
Actually I'm going to recommend Clears instead of both ;)
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I agree with Grendel. If you like Browns, use them. Nothing wrong with going with what you like.