it's above a mechanical keyboard.AND THE KEYBOARDS...OF...THE BRAAAAAVEEE
keyboard of the gods.
keyboard of freedom.
Topre are nice though, and certainly better than everything else.Fixed this for you
I would argue "no," since Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key, but rather use dome sheets (sometimes individual domes) over metal springs for their capacitive pcb.
The fact that they come in sheets makes it a no for me. Topre are nice though, and certainly better than dome over membrane.
I would argue "no," since Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key, but rather use dome sheets (sometimes individual domes) over metal springs for their capacitive pcb.
The fact that they come in sheets makes it a no for me. Topre are nice though, and certainly better than dome over membrane.
I would argue "no," since Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key, but rather use dome sheets (sometimes individual domes) over metal springs for their capacitive pcb.
The fact that they come in sheets makes it a no for me. Topre are nice though, and certainly better than dome over membrane.
This is incorrect. While I would agree they're not technically a mech board, and that they have the rubber domes connected on a single sheet, they do in fact have individual key switches under the domes. The rubber domes provide most of the resistance and tactility, but sit above the individual switches in the case (for HHKB) or on the plate (RF).
it's above a mechanical keyboard.
keyboard of the gods.
keyboard of freedom.
Does it matter? It's not well defined what "mechanical" even means in this context. Topre keyboards are nice, high quality keyboards. Labels make little difference.
Topre switches are mechanical switches. Mechanical means: working or produced by machines or machinery. As such, Topre is mechanical. Topre is not a hybrid of anything. This is a confusion that seems to be generated by those who cannot understand the electrostatic capacitive switching mechanism.I think you're taking the term "mechanical" way too literally. The dictionary definition of "mechanical" does not completely work in the enthusiast keyboard context.
Topre switches are not rubber dome switches. Topre switches are instead electrostatic capacitance switches, which is a superior technology to rubber domes, and to Cherry MX. Rubber domes and Cherry MX both use physical contact to make an electrical contact in the switch. Topre uses a completely different technology. Topre uses an electrostatic capacitive switch.
An electrostatic capacitive switch does not use physical contact of metal parts to make the electrical connection, instead the electrical connection is made by capacitance. Capacitance is the ability of a system to store an electric charge.
Both rubber dome switches and Cherry MX switches physically complete an electric circuit when you press the key. Topre capacitive switches do not. Instead, electric current constantly flows through all parts of the key matrix. Each key is spring-loaded and has a tiny plate attached to the bottom of it. When you press a key, you do the work of moving the tiny top plate closer to the larger plate below it. As the gap between the two plates decreases, the capacitance increases, and the amount of current flowing through the matrix changes. The micro-processor in the keyboard detects the change in voltage and interprets it as a key press for that location.
Because there is no physical contact, capacitive switch keyboards have a longer life than any other mechanical keyboard. Also, capacitive switch keyboards do not have problems with signal bounce since the two surfaces never come into physical contact. Signal bounce is a real problem if you want an electronic circuit with fast response time. Signal bounce (or “contact bounce”) can produce very noticeable and undesired effects. Ask Ducky users. Or ask anybody that has built their own MX keyboard.
Because there is no physical contact, capacitive switch keyboards have a longer life than any other mechanical keyboard.
Also, capacitive switch keyboards do not have problems with signal bounce since the two surfaces never come into physical contact.
Because there is no physical contact, capacitive switch keyboards have a longer life than any other mechanical keyboard.
Mmmh.. I don't think that's quite accurate. Capacitive sensing does last longer than contact based due to various issues like corrosion and such, but there's more to it than just the sensing method - there's the mechanism of the switch itself to consider as well. For example, since a Topre switch uses elastomers, I highly suspect that it cannot flex as many times as a stainless steel spring while still keeping its original shape and strength. Equivalently, if one takes beam spring switches that are capacitive, one finds that they are not very reliable if used as is, due to spontaneously dying due to slight debris ingress. Hence the rubber sheets that protected them. Also one can take honeywall hall effect switches that are supposedly rated for 30 billion actuations or something silly.Also, capacitive switch keyboards do not have problems with signal bounce since the two surfaces never come into physical contact.
Actually, capacitive switches still need a type of debouncing handling.
I would argue "no," since Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key, but rather use dome sheets (sometimes individual domes) over metal springs for their capacitive pcb.
The fact that they come in sheets makes it a no for me. Topre are nice though, and certainly better than dome over membrane.
This is incorrect. While I would agree they're not technically a mech board, and that they have the rubber domes connected on a single sheet, they do in fact have individual key switches under the domes. The rubber domes provide most of the resistance and tactility, but sit above the individual switches in the case (for HHKB) or on the plate (RF).
Not sure this makes much sense to me, the rubber dome has a spring underneath, I don't see how you can call springs switches.
hmm. Well, nobody talks about Hall effect switches, because they are not mass produced.
I would argue "no," since Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key, but rather use dome sheets (sometimes individual domes) over metal springs for their capacitive pcb.
The fact that they come in sheets makes it a no for me. Topre are nice though, and certainly better than dome over membrane.
This is incorrect. While I would agree they're not technically a mech board, and that they have the rubber domes connected on a single sheet, they do in fact have individual key switches under the domes. The rubber domes provide most of the resistance and tactility, but sit above the individual switches in the case (for HHKB) or on the plate (RF).
Not sure this makes much sense to me, the rubber dome has a spring underneath, I don't see how you can call springs switches.
The only statement that was incorrect was "Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key". Topre boards do have individual switches.
srsly?snow - noun \ˈsnō\ soft, white pieces of frozen water that fall to the ground from the sky in cold weather
The dictionary definition of a word is the definition. That is what the word means. Words do not mean what you think they mean. That is not how language works. If you want to use a word that means something different, that's okay, use another word. If there is no word for you, then make one up. That is okay too. Shakespeare did it. You can too. You can make up a word like "mekkanikel" or "mechannerkal" or "mechanikewl" or whatever you want. But if you use words from the lexicon of the English language, then you have to adhere to the generally accepted definition, which is what you find in the dictionary, those are the rules of being a human being.
If you think the "enthusiast keyboard context" grants you license to change the meaning of a word, then you are wrong. I suggest using the word "mechanikewl" from now on to describe your keyboard. It can have any meaning you want.
I would argue "no," since Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key, but rather use dome sheets (sometimes individual domes) over metal springs for their capacitive pcb.
The fact that they come in sheets makes it a no for me. Topre are nice though, and certainly better than dome over membrane.
This is incorrect. While I would agree they're not technically a mech board, and that they have the rubber domes connected on a single sheet, they do in fact have individual key switches under the domes. The rubber domes provide most of the resistance and tactility, but sit above the individual switches in the case (for HHKB) or on the plate (RF).
Not sure this makes much sense to me, the rubber dome has a spring underneath, I don't see how you can call springs switches.
The only statement that was incorrect was "Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key". Topre boards do have individual switches.
Yes. I meant to say "Topre boards do not have individual [contact] switches for each key, [as exist in a Cherry MX keyboard]." Topre does have switching mechanisms that correspond to each individual key. The point I was trying to emphasize was the lack of physical contact under each keycap.
The dictionary definition of a word is the definition. That is what the word means.
In my book it gotta Click!
Can I safely let people know [Topre keyboards are] mechanical?Sure, go for it. “Mechanical” doesn’t have a particularly precise definition in the “keyboard enthusiast community”. The way words work is that some person or group of people cluster a bunch of things together that they think are related, and then attach a label to them. In general, the relevant clusters here are:
hmm. Well, nobody talks about Hall effect switches, because they are not mass produced. I guess I could mention them, or maybe we could talk about typing in space, in a vacuum, or close to absolute zero, where friction and gravity would not apply. We can also talk about unicorns and mole men. But I'm talking about the real world, and about the three main choices for keyboards that are available commercially in abundance: rubber domes, Cherry MX and Topre. Of those 3, Topre is a superior technology, that will outlast the other 2. Is that okay?
As for your assertion that capacitive switches still need a type of debouncing handling. This is wrong. Capacitive switches eliminate contact bounce, as I said above, because there is no physical banging contact. Why do people not understand this? [...] good for you for inadvertently pointing this out, even though I doubt that you understand the difference.You may want to hook an oscilloscope up to your Topre board and verify this for yourself. Note that Parak is an electrical engineer who has some direct experience with capacitive keyboard sensing.
srsly?
The dictionary definition of a word is the definition. That is what the word means. Words do not mean what you think they mean. That is not how language works. If you want to use a word that means something different, that's okay, use another word. If there is no word for you, then make one up. That is okay too. Shakespeare did it. You can too. You can make up a word like "mekkanikel" or "mechannerkal" or "mechanikewl" or whatever you want. But if you use words from the lexicon of the English language, then you have to adhere to the generally accepted definition, which is what you find in the dictionary, those are the rules of being a human being.
If you think the "enthusiast keyboard context" grants you license to change the meaning of a word, then you are wrong. I suggest using the word "mechanikewl" from now on to describe your keyboard. It can have any meaning you want.
I would argue "no," since Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key, but rather use dome sheets (sometimes individual domes) over metal springs for their capacitive pcb.
The fact that they come in sheets makes it a no for me. Topre are nice though, and certainly better than dome over membrane.
This is incorrect. While I would agree they're not technically a mech board, and that they have the rubber domes connected on a single sheet, they do in fact have individual key switches under the domes. The rubber domes provide most of the resistance and tactility, but sit above the individual switches in the case (for HHKB) or on the plate (RF).
Not sure this makes much sense to me, the rubber dome has a spring underneath, I don't see how you can call springs switches.
The only statement that was incorrect was "Topre boards do not have individual switches for each key". Topre boards do have individual switches.
Yes. I meant to say "Topre boards do not have individual [contact] switches for each key, [as exist in a Cherry MX keyboard]." Topre does have switching mechanisms that correspond to each individual key. The point I was trying to emphasize was the lack of physical contact under each keycap.
technically no
logistically yes
it's above a mechanical keyboard.
keyboard of the gods.
keyboard of freedom.
Otherwise I'd have to justify paying $200 for a non-mechanical keyboard (HHKB) :))
Given the choice, I'd go for something along the lines of:
"Mechanical" — involves linkages or parts that move in a different direction to the keystroke, so this includes the Ducky 1000 series (perpendicular movement of the leaves), but excludes Topre, Hall effect, magnetic valve etc (pretty much anything with optical or semi solid-state sensing doesn't count)
"High-end" — keyboards built with long-term reliability as a primary goal, along with quality of construction — this covers Topre, Micro Switch, Filco etc but excludes the Ducky 1000 series; I wouldn't count the Cherry G80-3000 either as they're reliable but flimsy, and they're comparatively cheap (of course, the number of Filco problems, and their keycaps, makes their position dubious at best)
I find no logic in trying to group together almost everything on the planet that isn't rubber dome over membrane and spring over membrane. "Mechanical" is too much of a blanket term, and "mechanical" keyboards for many of us have proved less reliable and more disappointing than cheap rubber domes — LED failure, soldering failure, switch failure, controller failure, short keycap legend lifetime, and keycap failure. Bog standard Dell rubber domes from the likes of NMB and Silitek feel horrible but they last forever.
The term "mechanical" doesn't equate with "quality" or "worth buying".
So I made this chart... have I messed anything up?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WM1VL7a.png)
So I made this chart... have I messed anything up?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WM1VL7a.png)
That's implication logic. I say no more.
It's "discrete" :-)
Realforce keyboards should be under discrete switch housings, since the switches are not modular, but HHKB should be on the outside of the chart (HHKBs). Slider over dome tends not to be discrete either, nor most spring over membrane (Acer being an exception to that one).
An example of fully non-discrete mechanical is Hi-Tek linear and modular and Stackpole switch grid. (Hi-Tek modular is largely more than one switch per module.)
It's just not simple, and there are a lot of switches:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:List_of_all_keyboard_switches
There are a significant number missing from the wiki.
Oh, and "Rubber dome" should read "Integrated-mount rubber dome over membrane" to distinguish it from modular rubber domes (e.g. Alps SKE* serieses) and Topre, and slider over rubber dome.
Slider over dome switches (BTC, NMB, Alps etc) are largely non-discrete: the slider guide shafts are moulded into a single sheet of plastic, usually the top case of the keyboard.
Hi-Tek/Stackpole keyboards take several forms. The "waffle grid" is the old design; Hi-Tek modular (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hi-Tek_modular) keyboards used flat-top units for both the grids and the discrete switches (with some crossover between the two).
Fully modular conductive rubber dome switches: Alps integrated dome (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_integrated_dome), Maxi Switch integrated dome (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Maxi_Switch_integrated_dome)
Conductive rubber dome with discrete housings: Printec-DS S7 (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Printec-DS_S7)
I wouldn't personally class Cherry MY as mechanical, but it's a frustrating grey area, along with Acer switches. Tai-Hao's equivalent to Acer switches (non-discrete, spring over membrane with click leaves) is something they refer to as "semi-mechanical", which raises an interesting question, because I didn't think they'd sold any for some time, so how long as the term "mechanical" been in use?
So I made this chart... have I messed anything up?Basically no one is going to agree with this chart. As has been said before, it’s pointless to try to nail down definitions for the word “mechanical” in this context. Having one person (or even a whole group of people) declare a switch to be “mechanical” or “not mechanical” has zero effect on anything. It’s pure semantics masturbation.
I suppose I should be relieved to finally find someone here who's actually more miserable and negative than I am.
So I made this chart... have I messed anything up?Basically no one is going to agree with this chart. As has been said before, it�s pointless to try to nail down definitions for the word �mechanical� in this context. Having one person (or even a whole group of people) declare a switch to be �mechanical� or �not mechanical� has zero effect on anything. It�s pure semantics masturbation.
Because there is no physical contact, capacitive switch keyboards have a longer life than any other mechanical keyboard.
It's a hybrid, but closer to the side of rubber domes than to a real mech board
That's why Topre owners put up such bravado, they know how flawed they are
It's a hybrid, but closer to the side of rubber domes than to a real mech board
That's why Topre owners put up such bravado, they know how flawed they are
now, now, be nice Noisy...
It's a hybrid, but closer to the side of rubber domes than to a real mech board
That's why Topre owners put up such bravado, they know how flawed they are
This debate is futile, it is barely a question to entertain the casual reader and writer. Even the rubber dome boards are mechanical ones. So Topre are also mechanical boards, scissors boards are mechanical. Even, the chiclet type boards in most laptops are mechanical as well.
Version two, with thanks to Daniel for feedback.ah, the model M does not have discrete switch housing; all of the switches are on a single board and all activate a shared membrane underneath. While some buckling springs may exist in discrete switches, the Model M's do not. That's the only flaw I immediately notice with this graphic.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/caaeckv.png)
Because there is no physical contact, capacitive switch keyboards have a longer life than any other mechanical keyboard.so are you claiming a Model F will last longer than a Model M switch? Because a Model F is capacitive but has a spring - and that spring will not probably take any longer to stop working than a Model M spring. (That's still a REALLY long time, but I'm just saying - there are always exceptions.)
I am not trying to oversimplify the question, but only to be objective; all the keyboards that have some mechanism to get a key to actuate a switch and then spring back to its original position are mechanical. We may debate if such mechanism is reliable, of if it provides enough feedback to the user; or even if the feedback feels well, or if it is responsive; or maybe to discuss its quality or any other characteristic, but we cannot really try to use the term mechanical to certain mechanisms that we like, or prefer, and to call anything else to those boards that have mechanisms we do not like.
I think the point ideus is trying to make is that we don't get to define the word mechanical. It's already been defined. If we want to split hairs over what makes a "good" keyboard we've really got to find another term.
I think the point ideus is trying to make is that we don't get to define the word mechanical. It's already been defined. If we want to split hairs over what makes a "good" keyboard we've really got to find another term.A few years too late to change the definition for the whole community, but if the community were to start today, I'd probably look for an alternate term. Can't do much about it now, though!
In the most literal sense a rubber dome is mechanical
you guys are repeating yourselves...
you guys are repeating yourselves...
shhhhhhhhh let these plebes hash it out.
Damn, can't argue with that GIF. I'm out.
Technically, all keyboards are "mechanical", because they all consist of assembled, moving parts used to achieve a specific result.
The term "mechanical keyboard" came into use to distinguish the various and significantly more expensive, higher-quality forms of KB technology—including those that utilize durable rubber domes—from the cheap, short-wearing RD KBs most of the world uses.
It's an ambiguous term that doesn't stand up to rigorous analysis. People use it because no one could think of a better one, and because they know what it's supposed to mean.
It's like "acoustic" musical instruments. They were originally just called "instruments". When electric instruments were invented, suddenly there was a need to distinguish the non-electrics from them—so the term "acoustic" came into use (probably because "non-electric" sounded goofy). But technically, all musical instruments are "acoustic", because music is ultimately about sound, no matter how it's produced.
When I talk to non-keyboard-enthusiasts, I use the term mechanical keyboard as an easy way to make a distinction (until they get bored and walk away). But here on GH, we never really bother to say "mechanical keyboard," but instead provide a more specific term, in this case "cherry board," "BS," or "Topre"...
Ultimately, I think what it comes down to is not whether or not there's a metal spring somewhere in the internals, but it's a matter of design goals. Was the board designed to cut costs, or was it designed to provide a quality typing experience?
So then, the answer to OP's question is, it depends what you mean by mechanical.
[BEATING A DEAD HORSE]
Quite frankly, this is probably the best way to sort out keyboards. Though people will argue endlessly about the positions of the boards in the top right box.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Hr6ufYP.png)
Capacitive Buckling Spring (Model F) is just so good that it's higher than the chart.
Topre are mostly an excuse to believe that the person ever liked mechanical in the first place.
if you were to go back to rubberdomes you would be a dumbass, but if you buy 300$ rubberdomes then you can pretend all the money you spent on mx you didnt even like was getting you to your "endgame" keyboard.
The lazy minds need GIFs, that is why here is mine.
(Attachment Link)
Technically, every kind of key switch that has one or more moving parts is "mechanical".
However, when people talk about "mechanical" keyboard switches they often refer to the feel of them provided by the metal spring inside. The metal spring provides most of the resistance and the force/displacement curve on the key press is therefore completely or in part linear.
Topre does not fulfil that criteria because most of the resistance is created by a rubber dome - and like all rubber domes it gives S-shaped force/displacement curves.
Topre does however have two other properties that people also connect with "mechanical keyboards" (but which are not compulsory for key switches with metal springs): actuation somewhere in the middle, and a distinct feel when bottoming out.
Technically, all keyboards are "mechanical", because they all consist of assembled, moving parts used to achieve a specific result.
The term "mechanical keyboard" came into use to distinguish the various and significantly more expensive, higher-quality forms of KB technology—including those that utilize durable rubber domes—from the cheap, short-wearing RD KBs most of the world uses.
It's an ambiguous term that doesn't stand up to rigorous analysis. People use it because no one could think of a better one, and because they know what it's supposed to mean.
It's like "acoustic" musical instruments. They were originally just called "instruments". When electric instruments were invented, suddenly there was a need to distinguish the non-electrics from them—so the term "acoustic" came into use (probably because "non-electric" sounded goofy). But technically, all musical instruments are "acoustic", because music is ultimately about sound, no matter how it's produced.
Some questions:It is a spring, with a rubberdome over the spring, and the slider pushes down on the rubberdome.
1. If topre's resistance mostly comes from the rubber, then that just means their rubber is better engineered than the rubber membranes in $10 keyboards, right? So I guess the obvious question is, why don't $10 keyboard manufacturers spend $5 more and produce better rubber domes?
2. I still don't understand what triggers the switch in a topre. Capacitance sensor is on the PCB right? When I press down on the key is it the little black disc on the underside of the dome that alters the capacitance? I hear it's the spring, but I don't get how that works. Me electronics not so gud.
3. Model Fs have capacitive switches. Does it feel any different from a Model M switch?
BTW these two posts were the best answers in this thread. I suppose what we're really looking for is some name better than 'mechanical'. I suggest 'tactile' (which suffers the same problem as mechanical in that all keyboards other than touchscreen ones are technically tactile) or 'predictable' (which sounds stupid).Technically, every kind of key switch that has one or more moving parts is "mechanical".
However, when people talk about "mechanical" keyboard switches they often refer to the feel of them provided by the metal spring inside. The metal spring provides most of the resistance and the force/displacement curve on the key press is therefore completely or in part linear.
Topre does not fulfil that criteria because most of the resistance is created by a rubber dome - and like all rubber domes it gives S-shaped force/displacement curves.
Topre does however have two other properties that people also connect with "mechanical keyboards" (but which are not compulsory for key switches with metal springs): actuation somewhere in the middle, and a distinct feel when bottoming out.Technically, all keyboards are "mechanical", because they all consist of assembled, moving parts used to achieve a specific result.
The term "mechanical keyboard" came into use to distinguish the various and significantly more expensive, higher-quality forms of KB technology—including those that utilize durable rubber domes—from the cheap, short-wearing RD KBs most of the world uses.
It's an ambiguous term that doesn't stand up to rigorous analysis. People use it because no one could think of a better one, and because they know what it's supposed to mean.
It's like "acoustic" musical instruments. They were originally just called "instruments". When electric instruments were invented, suddenly there was a need to distinguish the non-electrics from them—so the term "acoustic" came into use (probably because "non-electric" sounded goofy). But technically, all musical instruments are "acoustic", because music is ultimately about sound, no matter how it's produced.
BTW these two posts were the best answers in this thread. I suppose what we're really looking for is some name better than 'mechanical'. I suggest 'tactile' (which suffers the same problem as mechanical in that all keyboards other than touchscreen ones are technically tactile) or 'predictable' (which sounds stupid).
It is a spring, with a rubberdome over the spring, and the slider pushes down on the rubberdome.
The rubberdome pushes down 2 pieces that complete the contact, you can read more here: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rubber_domeIt is a spring, with a rubberdome over the spring, and the slider pushes down on the rubberdome.
Yes, I get that, but what's causes the capacitive switch to trigger? Something has to cause the capacitance to change. What is it? If it's the spring, eh? My understanding of capacitors is that there's an insulator between the two plates (on the PCB), which in this case is... air? Then when I press down on the dome and compress the spring, at some point the charge discharges across the spring.
That's probably hopelessly wrong. Someone help explain it to me please. :'(
The rubberdome pushes down 2 pieces that complete the contact, you can read more here: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rubber_dome
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switchThe rubberdome pushes down 2 pieces that complete the contact, you can read more here: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rubber_dome
I think you're describing rubber dome over a membrane. If that's how the topre works then actuation would require bottoming out, which I don't think it does. Besides, with a membrane, it would be the black disc that would be the contact point and actuator, but in the literature I've read it says the spring is a key part of actuation, related to capacitance. I don't think capacitive switches need contact to actuate. If it did then it wouldn't really be any different from a cherry electrical switch.
Another puzzle: does the spring actually sit on top of and in contact with the PCB like this? http://deskthority.net/w/images/3/30/Topre_Short_Throw_-_PCB.jpg Wouldn't that cause a short?
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch
In the pictures, you will see a little rubber dong on the inside of the rubber some, and this is how it can actuate without bottoming out, at least try to use some common sense, instead of letting us spoon feed information that I learned from just googling how does topre work. If that is a bit tough the visualize, here is a diagram (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/21/84aed656d19fabd3d9eb9a43f796368c.jpg)http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch
Your linking game is strong. But did you actually read the page? Because this is as much as it says, and for that matter anywhere I can find on the internet says about the actuation mechanism.
"When the conical spring is compressed, a capacitative sensing mechanism on the PCB senses the key press mid-actuation. Circuitry on the PCB collects sensing data from smaller key groups and feeds it to the controller. This scheme has the capacity for providing N-key roll-over."
The key, murky part:
"a capacitative sensing mechanism on the PCB senses the key press mid-actuation. "
How? How does the spring relate to the capacitive sensors on the PCB? Does the spring hold some charge?
Once again, does anyone actually know how a Topre switch works?
In the pictures, you will see a little rubber dong on the inside of the rubber some, and this is how it can actuate without bottoming out, at least try to use some common sense, instead of letting us spoon feed information that I learned from just googling how does topre work. If that is a bit tough the visualize, here is a diagramShow Image(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/21/84aed656d19fabd3d9eb9a43f796368c.jpg)
That was from keychatters blog, if you want me to I can take some pictures of my HHKB's internals to try and give a visual.In the pictures, you will see a little rubber dong on the inside of the rubber some, and this is how it can actuate without bottoming out, at least try to use some common sense, instead of letting us spoon feed information that I learned from just googling how does topre work. If that is a bit tough the visualize, here is a diagramShow Image(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/21/84aed656d19fabd3d9eb9a43f796368c.jpg)
Are you just pasting the first google results you can find? Here's the inside of a topre rubber dome. Notice it doesn't have a contact pad or 'rubber dong'.
http://deskthority.net/w/images/2/24/Topre_Short_Throw_-_Dome_Comparison_Underside.jpg.
http://deskthority.net/w/images/5/5e/Topre_Dome_Sheet_and_Mounting_Plate.JPG
This is the rubber dome from Topre's conductive switch, the one that does require contact, hence the carbon pad: http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Sony_BKE_2011_-_Switch_Dome_Bottom.jpg
Even if your explanation were correct it still doesn't explain how the spring is an integral component of the actuation mechanism.
It's ok, there's images of the HHKB rubber dome sheet about on the internet. Seems there's no rubber nub on those either:
http://www.computerartisan.com/hhk/pro0.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/6p38jssxz/DSC00637.jpg
So, gotta be the spring, right? I'm just not understanding that mechanism just yet. As you have a HHKB though, can you confirm whether the springs are in contact with the PCB or not? My assumption would be that they would. But again, doesn't that cause a short?
Thanks for that. I think I get it now. My mistake was thinking that the two plates were on the PCB itself.
http://deskthority.net/w/images/3/30/Topre_Short_Throw_-_PCB.jpg
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/topre_041.jpg
I found this helped a lot: http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4368384/Designing-reliable-capacitive-touch-interfaces
Basically, the switch works the same as a touchscreen button, with the spring taking place of the finger. Set the capacitance such that resting contact doesn't trigger a discharge, but further compression (bringing the plates closer) will, at some defined point. That's my understanding. Let me know if I've got any of this wrong.
There do seem to always be two parts on the PCB for each switch though. What's that about? One for charging and one to ground?
Let's use this image: http://deskthority.net/w/images/3/30/Topre_Short_Throw_-_PCB.jpg
Each switch on the PCB has the inner circle and then an outer circle surrounding, but not touching it. My guess is that the outer creates the charge and the inner pad detects capacitance. But really just a guess.
This thread makes me weep for the education system in the modern world. If only there were a modicum of linguistics education during k-12 threads like this wouldn't exist. This is an argument about the prescriptive definition of "mechanical" and as long as people are going to push one definition or another as "correct" then this isn't going anywhere. Language isn't logical. If someone's understanding of the word "mechanical" includes topre switches then so be it; another person's might not. This doesn't change the nature of topre switches at all. In fact, in this case "mechanical keyboard" is a term that has come to have its own definition separate of it's constituent parts that usually means "high quality keyboard", but even then it just doesn't make any difference whether you want to include topre among that set.