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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: overthetop on Tue, 13 January 2015, 16:02:18
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i currently have reds and they feel so light to me. Are the topre 45g heavier or the same? this will really help me guys.
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Technically they're the same, but the force curve will make them feel a bit heavier from what I've heard.
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They're technically all the same, but in actuality it goes like this:
(Light) MX Red -> MX Brown -> Topre 45g (Heavy)
Also Topre domes are stiffer when new, so when you first got it it will feel quite a bit heavier.
But fear not you'll get used to the oneness with cup rubber very fast. :thumb:
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Technically they're the same, but the force curve will make them feel a bit heavier from what I've heard.
My two main keyboards are Topre 45g and Cherry MX Red. This has been my experience.
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literally throwing poop on your desk and typing > reds
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litearlly throwing poop on your desk and typing > reds
Are you speaking from experience? ;D
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Topre 45g's average force is higher than reds and their tactility will make them seem heavier and will help prevent accidental keypresses.
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litearlly throwing poop on your desk and typing > reds
Are you speaking from experience? ;D
all i do is pop bottles and smoke dope
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litearlly throwing poop on your desk and typing > reds
This
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The guys I know personally only use MX reds for gaming and have another board for everything else. I've used reds for gaming and they're fine for that. However, I personally prefer browns, 87U variable or HHKB for gaming.
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Well, I think demik was exaggerating a bit. Reds feel better than typing on poop. Vintage blacks feel even better. But Topre is the best. You really can't compare Topre to MX, they're just too different. And words don't really help, since there is no way to communicate how something feels. My advice is buy a Topre keyboard, but not Type Heaven, get something with PBT keycaps. You will never look back.
Now I'm thinking I gotta make that trip to LA. I want some of those bottles, and little of that dope that demik was talking about.
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Well, I think demik was exaggerating a bit. Reds feel better than typing on poop. Vintage blacks feel even better. But Topre is the best. You really can't compare Topre to MX, they're just too different. And words don't really help, since there is no way to communicate how something feels. My advice is buy a Topre keyboard, but not Type Heaven, get something with PBT keycaps. You will never look back.
Now I'm thinking I gotta make that trip to LA. I want some of those bottles, and little of that dope that demik was talking about.
juuuuuust a little.
and always welcomed!
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Reds are too light for me, 45g Topre (in HHKB) feels just right.
Although I do prefer stiffer springs, such as MX greens or blacks, I am wondering whether I'd end up preferring 55g Topre instead.
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So I guess I should choose from Topre 45g and 55g. Are the 55g too heavy? Can someone that have tried these compare them with the cherry switches?
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Reds are too light for me, 45g Topre (in HHKB) feels just right.
Although I do prefer stiffer springs, such as MX greens or blacks, I am wondering whether I'd end up preferring 55g Topre instead.
Some would take your comment as a contradiction, but I understand exactly what you mean. At times, my HHKB is just right. Other times, my 87U variable. At times, I think my 55g 87U is God's gift to mankind, and at times I think it's way too stiff. Factors like how you feel that day, energy level, time of the day, even the music we may have on at the time have influence on our typing style and preferences. Which is why I don't want to sell any of them. They are all perfect when the time is right.
It also depends on the task at hand. The 55g is great for coding because I'm not typing continuously and I appreciate the snappy decisiveness of the keys. If I have a bunch of emails to type, I'll usually reach for a lighter board.
I'm not a keyboard collector as some are. My keyboards are my tools. A carpenter has different hammers and chooses the one best suited for the job at hand. Framing hammer, finish hammer, decking hammer, etc. One could argue that he 'could' get by with one and use it for everything.
If you spend a good portion of your days on a keyboard, it's perfectly acceptable to have more than one keyboard that you consider 'perfect'. :thumb:
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I mistype (accidental press) with Cherry reds because they are too soft for me. I have Topre variable force (35-55g) and rarely mistype because of the tactility.
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Reds are too light for me, 45g Topre (in HHKB) feels just right.
Although I do prefer stiffer springs, such as MX greens or blacks, I am wondering whether I'd end up preferring 55g Topre instead.
Some would take your comment as a contradiction, but I understand exactly what you mean. At times, my HHKB is just right. Other times, my 87U variable. At times, I think my 55g 87U is God's gift to mankind, and at times I think it's way too stiff. Factors like how you feel that day, energy level, time of the day, even the music we may have on at the time have influence on our typing style and preferences. Which is why I don't want to sell any of them. They are all perfect when the time is right.
It also depends on the task at hand. The 55g is great for coding because I'm not typing continuously and I appreciate the snappy decisiveness of the keys. If I have a bunch of emails to type, I'll usually reach for a lighter board.
I'm not a keyboard collector as some are. My keyboards are my tools. A carpenter has different hammers and chooses the one best suited for the job at hand. Framing hammer, finish hammer, decking hammer, etc. One could argue that he 'could' get by with one and use it for everything.
If you spend a good portion of your days on a keyboard, it's perfectly acceptable to have more than one keyboard that you consider 'perfect'. :thumb:
:))
I have not tried 55g Topre.
Comparing MX reds and 45g Topre (as per the thread title) I overly prefer 45g Topre. MX reds are way too light, compared to all other switches I have tried, including MX blues.
I thought MX blues were great, until I tried MX blacks and greens. Now I can't go back.
But I do still like 45g Topre in HHKB. They are light so not tiring, but provide sufficient resistance and feedback to make for an enjoyable typing experience.
I would like to try 55g Topre, but I have a feeling they might spoil me for 45g Topre.
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Reds are too light for me, 45g Topre (in HHKB) feels just right.
Although I do prefer stiffer springs, such as MX greens or blacks, I am wondering whether I'd end up preferring 55g Topre instead.
Some would take your comment as a contradiction, but I understand exactly what you mean. At times, my HHKB is just right. Other times, my 87U variable. At times, I think my 55g 87U is God's gift to mankind, and at times I think it's way too stiff. Factors like how you feel that day, energy level, time of the day, even the music we may have on at the time have influence on our typing style and preferences. Which is why I don't want to sell any of them. They are all perfect when the time is right.
It also depends on the task at hand. The 55g is great for coding because I'm not typing continuously and I appreciate the snappy decisiveness of the keys. If I have a bunch of emails to type, I'll usually reach for a lighter board.
I'm not a keyboard collector as some are. My keyboards are my tools. A carpenter has different hammers and chooses the one best suited for the job at hand. Framing hammer, finish hammer, decking hammer, etc. One could argue that he 'could' get by with one and use it for everything.
If you spend a good portion of your days on a keyboard, it's perfectly acceptable to have more than one keyboard that you consider 'perfect'. :thumb:
:))
I have not tried 55g Topre.
Comparing MX reds and 45g Topre (as per the thread title) I overly prefer 45g Topre. MX reds are way too light, compared to all other switches I have tried, including MX blues.
I thought MX blues were great, until I tried MX blacks and greens. Now I can't go back.
But I do still like 45g Topre in HHKB. They are light so not tiring, but provide sufficient resistance and feedback to make for an enjoyable typing experience.
I would like to try 55g Topre, but I have a feeling they might spoil me for 45g Topre.
No way buddy. I rotate between variable, 45g and 55g daily. Each one is my favorite on any given day hahaha.
If you like greens and blacks, there is no way you would dislike 55g Topre. If you lived in the US, I'd let you use mine for a couple of weeks (USPS flat rate shipping is cheap). But it looks like you're just going to have to buy one. ;D
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Stop working out so much.. maybe they'll feel heavier..
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Reds are too light for me, 45g Topre (in HHKB) feels just right.
Although I do prefer stiffer springs, such as MX greens or blacks, I am wondering whether I'd end up preferring 55g Topre instead.
Some would take your comment as a contradiction, but I understand exactly what you mean. At times, my HHKB is just right. Other times, my 87U variable. At times, I think my 55g 87U is God's gift to mankind, and at times I think it's way too stiff. Factors like how you feel that day, energy level, time of the day, even the music we may have on at the time have influence on our typing style and preferences. Which is why I don't want to sell any of them. They are all perfect when the time is right.
It also depends on the task at hand. The 55g is great for coding because I'm not typing continuously and I appreciate the snappy decisiveness of the keys. If I have a bunch of emails to type, I'll usually reach for a lighter board.
I'm not a keyboard collector as some are. My keyboards are my tools. A carpenter has different hammers and chooses the one best suited for the job at hand. Framing hammer, finish hammer, decking hammer, etc. One could argue that he 'could' get by with one and use it for everything.
If you spend a good portion of your days on a keyboard, it's perfectly acceptable to have more than one keyboard that you consider 'perfect'. :thumb:
:))
I have not tried 55g Topre.
Comparing MX reds and 45g Topre (as per the thread title) I overly prefer 45g Topre. MX reds are way too light, compared to all other switches I have tried, including MX blues.
I thought MX blues were great, until I tried MX blacks and greens. Now I can't go back.
But I do still like 45g Topre in HHKB. They are light so not tiring, but provide sufficient resistance and feedback to make for an enjoyable typing experience.
I would like to try 55g Topre, but I have a feeling they might spoil me for 45g Topre.
No way buddy. I rotate between variable, 45g and 55g daily. Each one is my favorite on any given day hahaha.
If you like greens and blacks, there is no way you would dislike 55g Topre. If you lived in the US, I'd let you use mine for a couple of weeks (USPS flat rate shipping is cheap). But it looks like you're just going to have to buy one. ;D
Thanks for the offer :)
Yeah, I know, kinda a Topre keyboard wilderness out here.
It is on my list - a nice 87U 55g uniform.
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Can confirm, 55g topre is bliss. 45g topre is great too. After having both of these, mx reds just don't feel as good anymore.
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deam, i have just saw that elite keyboards are out of keyboards :<. Can i get a realforce 55g from somewhere else in the usa?
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Can confirm, 55g topre is bliss. 45g topre is great too. After having both of these, mx reds just don't feel as good anymore.
I can confirm that! I used reds for years for gaming and typing and thought they were amazing. After Topre though they feel like arse/
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i currently have reds and they feel so light to me. Are the topre 45g heavier or the same? this will really help me guys.
45g Topre does in fact feel heavier than Reds, Topre feels more .. thumpy I guess?
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i currently have reds and they feel so light to me. Are the topre 45g heavier or the same? this will really help me guys.
45g Topre does in fact feel heavier than Reds, Topre feels more .. thumpy I guess?
And what about topre 55g. Are they too heavy? My fingers are quite strong and I don't wanna get 45g and feel these like browns...I need something heavier than blue switches. Are Topre 55g the thing that I need?
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45g Topre don't feel as light as browns or reds. 55g feel snappy and heavier but not crazy heavy. Its just to hard to know what will work. I'd say 45g would probably be the best starting place.
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i currently have reds and they feel so light to me. Are the topre 45g heavier or the same? this will really help me guys.
45g Topre does in fact feel heavier than Reds, Topre feels more .. thumpy I guess?
And what about topre 55g. Are they too heavy? My fingers are quite strong and I don't wanna get 45g and feel these like browns...I need something heavier than blue switches. Are Topre 55g the thing that I need?
Many guys here will tell you it's the ultimate Topre switch. And at times, it is for me as well. But for me, it's too heavy much of the time. It all comes down to your typing style and what you're doing. Coding, it's great. Extended typing sessions, I'll take the 45g. Nobody can tell you if its too heavy. YOU have to determine that for yourself.
The simple answer is that you need both. I know it didn't help, but I'll say "I hope that helps" just the same hahaha. :p
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i currently have reds and they feel so light to me. Are the topre 45g heavier or the same? this will really help me guys.
45g Topre does in fact feel heavier than Reds, Topre feels more .. thumpy I guess?
And what about topre 55g. Are they too heavy? My fingers are quite strong and I don't wanna get 45g and feel these like browns...I need something heavier than blue switches. Are Topre 55g the thing that I need?
Many guys here will tell you it's the ultimate Topre switch. And at times, it is for me as well. But for me, it's too heavy much of the time. It all comes down to your typing style and what you're doing. Coding, it's great. Extended typing sessions, I'll take the 45g. Nobody can tell you if its too heavy. YOU have to determine that for yourself.
The simple answer is that you need both. I know it didn't help, but I'll say "I hope that helps" just the same hahaha. :p
How would you compare the 55g Topre to 50g cherry blue switch? For example 55g Topre = 62g cherry switch or something like this? I'm asking because I have tried almost all of the cherry mx switches and I'm trying to understand how much heavier the 55g Topre is in reality. This will really help me!
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My 30g topre was just a bit lighter than a 45g red switch.
The 45g topre I'd say is at least as heavy as the mx blues
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i currently have reds and they feel so light to me. Are the topre 45g heavier or the same? this will really help me guys.
45g Topre does in fact feel heavier than Reds, Topre feels more .. thumpy I guess?
And what about topre 55g. Are they too heavy? My fingers are quite strong and I don't wanna get 45g and feel these like browns...I need something heavier than blue switches. Are Topre 55g the thing that I need?
Many guys here will tell you it's the ultimate Topre switch. And at times, it is for me as well. But for me, it's too heavy much of the time. It all comes down to your typing style and what you're doing. Coding, it's great. Extended typing sessions, I'll take the 45g. Nobody can tell you if its too heavy. YOU have to determine that for yourself.
The simple answer is that you need both. I know it didn't help, but I'll say "I hope that helps" just the same hahaha. :p
How would you compare the 55g Topre to 50g cherry blue switch? For example 55g Topre = 62g cherry switch or something like this? I'm asking because I have tried almost all of the cherry mx switches and I'm trying to understand how much heavier the 55g Topre is in reality. This will really help me!
Regardless of the rated weighting, 55g Topre feels heavier than MX blues.
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Can you guess how much heavier? Something like ~10g more?
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Can you guess how much heavier? Something like ~10g more?
Yeah,I would say about that. It's not an exact science but it does seem about 10g heavier.
BTW, 55g Topre is really not that heavy unless you have really weak fingers or suffer from some kind of muculoskeletal disorder. It's certainly not as heavy feeling as say, a buckling spring. I would say the closest Cherry MX to a 55g Topre would be the clear switch.
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I concern is that I am writing with all the fingers and using my pinkies a lot. I can tell you for sure that the Cherry mx Black switches are too heavy for my pinkies and I don't know how the Topre 55g are gonna feel. Do you find it difficult to use your pinkies on the board? Mine are pretty strong but I have to ask :).
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I concern is that I am writing with all the fingers and using my pinkies a lot. I can tell you for sure that the Cherry mx Black switches are too heavy for my pinkies and I don't know how the Topre 55g are gonna feel. Do you find it difficult to use your pinkies on the board? Mine are pretty strong but I have to ask :).
I love my 55g 87U. But if I had to choose just one keyboard, that wouldn't be it. It's too stiff to be my daily driver. But, I'm older. And I type Colemak. If I were qwerty, it might be different.
If you're concerned about it, get the 45g uni or the variable. Or the HHKB, which is 45g. I can tell you that my pinkie fingers don't like the 55g for extended typing sessions.
Sorry buddy. Nobody can tell you what to get. It's like asking what are the most comfortable shoes. You have to try it for yourself. Everybody is different.
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Actually I am typing on Dvorak and my right pinky is on the "L" which is a really common letter when typing.
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Sorry buddy. Nobody can tell you what to get. It's like asking what are the most comfortable shoes. You have to try it for yourself. Everybody is different.
Yes I know. It's just that I don't want to buy another Realforce after three months :).
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Topre 45g vs Cherry MX Red
This is an old story but well if we need to compare between the two, Topre 45g is a bit heavier, smoother, more consistent and literally better. Even if we try to lube the Cherry MX Red, Topre is still the winner, it has a very relax feeling coming from the bump at the bottom out.
The difference between Topre 45g and 55g is not just about 10g. It's more than that. The Topre 55g has a bigger bump and the key feeling is very obvious and consistent between keys. However, some may find the Topre 55g is too much for them, some may even find the Topre 55g is stronger than Cherry MX Black.
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Topre 45g vs Cherry MX Red
This is an old story but well if we need to compare between the two, Topre 45g is a bit heavier, smoother, more consistent and literally better. Even if we try to lube the Cherry MX Red, Topre is still the winner, it has a very relax feeling coming from the bump at the bottom out.
The difference between Topre 45g and 55g is not just about 10g. It's more than that. The Topre 55g has a bigger bump and the key feeling is very obvious and consistent between keys. However, some may find the Topre 55g is too much for them, some may even find the Topre 55g is stronger than Cherry MX Black.
"Topre 55g is stronger than Cherry MX Black" WOW... Is this true? Isn't the 55g something like ~65g Cherry mx switch? Mx Blacks are really hard to bottom out and as I understand the Topre 55g are going light after the actuation point, meaning that after the 55g mark (~65g in reality) the force needed should be less.
Is this chart real or there is something else happaning in reality.
(http://cdn.overclock.net/7/77/900x900px-LL-77b5b81e_47c8a19470bee5776d40b14c142ca20d.jpeg)
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I concern is that I am writing with all the fingers and using my pinkies a lot. I can tell you for sure that the Cherry mx Black switches are too heavy for my pinkies and I don't know how the Topre 55g are gonna feel. Do you find it difficult to use your pinkies on the board? Mine are pretty strong but I have to ask :).
No problems here at all, but I'm a musician and play multiple instruments (guitar, bass, keyboards, drums, etc), so my perspective might not be "the average person". I really don't think 55g Topre is heavy though--even for pinkies. I guess you just have to try it in person. Topre keyboards are very popular around here and highly regarded, so you'll never have problems selling one if you end up not keeping it.
The reason why people are saying the Topre keys are heavier feeling than equivalent weight of Cherries, is because of the initial force at the top of the key-press required to collapse the rubber dome. That is the main difference and one of the reasons why people like Topre keys.
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Actually I am typing on Dvorak and my right pinky is on the "L" which is a really common letter when typing.
If I were still qwerty, I would probably like the 55g more because of the amount of finger travel. You're obviously a fast typist at 105 wpm. At that speed your fingers are flying. If you were qwerty, a heavier switch would help in that it provides enough resistance when being struck at that speed to keep you from slamming bottom.
I've not tried Dvorak. But if it's anything like Colemak, in that there is much less finger travel than qwerty, the heavier force needed to counter the fast finger strike isn't required. For example, Colemak has 35x the number of words typed entirely on home row and 16x less row jumping than qwerty. This means that my fingers are typically right above the keys being struck. Because of the minimal finger travel, there is no built-up momentum in my fingers and a heavier switch actually works against me, requiring too much force to actuate the keys. This results in finger fatigue.
45g is by far the most popular Topre switch. And considering most people are qwerty, this should tell you something.
Because you're using Dvorak, I'd recommend you get the 45g.
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Considering that most keyboards used, even by children, have keys that take around 60-110 grams force to press, you're a bunch of wimps. :P
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I have decided to try the 55g :). I will post some feedback once it's here.
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literally throwing poop on your desk and typing > reds
That's only because you type like an old man, you plebian hhkb type-snob.
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55g > 45g Topre for sure, but in all honesty lubed reds are my second favorite switch-type. They are a little too light at first, but I found i got used to them very quickly. Been looking to change out the springs for some 53cN custom springs but always miss the custom springs sales.
Topre feels far too much like a rubber dome to me (well, because it is,) and that completely defeats the purpose of getting a mech keyboard in the first place. It's like, if you replace the body of your Geo Metro with a carbon fiber McLaren but keep the engine it's still gonna drive like a Geo Metro. That's how Topre feels to me.
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Topre feels far too much like a rubber dome to me (well, because it is,) and that completely defeats the purpose of getting a mech keyboard in the first place. It's like, if you replace the body of your Geo Metro with a carbon fiber McLaren but keep the engine it's still gonna drive like a Geo Metro. That's how Topre feels to me.
But Topres sound so good... like a geo metro with McLaren body and exhaust. Thock, thock, thock instead of squelch squelch squelch
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55g > 45g Topre for sure, but in all honesty lubed reds are my second favorite switch-type. They are a little too light at first, but I found i got used to them very quickly. Been looking to change out the springs for some 53cN custom springs but always miss the custom springs sales.
Topre feels far too much like a rubber dome to me (well, because it is,) and that completely defeats the purpose of getting a mech keyboard in the first place. It's like, if you replace the body of your Geo Metro with a carbon fiber McLaren but keep the engine it's still gonna drive like a Geo Metro. That's how Topre feels to me.
I can definitely understand this sentiment but, I must ask how long you used a Topre board for? I think for those who are accustomed to Cherry switches it initially feels inferior. I just recently got a HHKB and I promised I'd stick with it and I can tell you now that I don't want to type on anything other than a HHKB!! I am in love with the feel of Topre mechanism and I removed all thought of it being a hybrid. It's a damn good switch and keyboard and that's all that matters.
I'm going to purchase an Fc660c soon in order to start comparing the iterations of Topre since I hear that there is a difference in feel between the REalforce boards and such.
Topre owns imo.
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You mean an FC660C, no ?
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You mean an FC660C, no ?
Yea he does.
He probably doesn't realize that the 660 M is the mechanical version.
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yes, I corrected it. Thanks. In any case, this will be next on my list. I was about to order a Realforce but to be honest, I don't like the idea of using anything other than a 60% board now. I guess it's due to mobility also, since I carry bring mine in to work on a daily basis.
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I just recently got a HHKB and I promised I'd stick with it and I can tell you now that I don't want to type on anything other than a HHKB!! I am in love with the feel of Topre mechanism and I removed all thought of it being a hybrid.
Do they feed you in the mind reprogramming camps, or just whip you until you promise to love Topre above all others?
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They're technically all the same, but in actuality it goes like this:
(Light) MX Red -> MX Brown -> Topre 45g (Heavy)
Also Topre domes are stiffer when new, so when you first got it it will feel quite a bit heavier.
But fear not you'll get used to the oneness with cup rubber very fast. :thumb:
Yeah this sounds about perfect to be honest with you.
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I just recently got a HHKB and I promised I'd stick with it and I can tell you now that I don't want to type on anything other than a HHKB!! I am in love with the feel of Topre mechanism and I removed all thought of it being a hybrid.
Do they feed you in the mind reprogramming camps, or just whip you until you promise to love Topre above all others?
they starve me first, then whip me into oblivion. :)
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My realforce 55g is finally with me :) I can say only this: 'The best keyboard ever' !!!!
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Also Topre domes are stiffer when new, so when you first got it it will feel quite a bit heavier.
Curious -- how long is the break-in period? I'm about a month of light use into my HHKB and definitely noticed how much stiffer (and cleaner) it feels than my KUL with Brown switches.