geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 12:54:24

Title: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 12:54:24: Hello,

After a long time looking at many of the beautiful custom keycap sets (retro, dolch, granite, etc) I decided to get a keyboard without backlighting and focus on finding a keycap set I like. I'm mainly looking for something with a nice, clean, somewhat retro feel with a larger, centered legend - like a Dolch set or the recent Retro (C-64) style set. I was a long time Commodore user when I was a kid so these sort of sets just really connect with me.

What I find amazing is that it feels impossible to find anything in stock or available other than blank keycaps and cheap or midrange ABS caps.

Some of these sets are so appealing and popular that they instantly sell in the classified yet for reasons I cannot understand, they are only available in limited run group buys.

Even outside of the full sets, a lot of the various sellers will show you a huge catalog of keycaps that are mostly out of stock and unavailable.

I can't figure out this market - is it just so small that no company is willing to take a risk and make a continually available Dolch style keycap set or do regular runs?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills - help me understand this.

Thanks
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 15 January 2015, 12:58:42: Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 12:54:24
small that no company is willing to take a risk and make a continually available Dolch style keycap set or do regular runs?

^ This.

Community "vendors" can't afford to sit on inventory on the off chance it may sell one day.

Commercial vendors make products for the majority, not a niche community like ours.

Oh, and Welcome to Geekhack!
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:05:00: Thank you for the reply and the warm welcome.

I can understand volume and inventory being an issue, but it seems like an enterprising company would create a system to let people order their own sets - WASD offers this, but the reviews seem to suggest that the quality is average.

I guess the manufacturing equipment is such that limited runs can be profitable, but there is too much setup involved to do sets on demand. Hopefully this will change at some point.

The other thing that drives me crazy is that I could probably be ok with some of the nicer PBT dye sub sets, but I do not understand why most keys have small legends in the upper left corner - I know in some cases, they may want to reprint a secondary legend for other languages, but it seems almost all keycaps are designed this way.

But I guess if wasn't picky, I wouldn't be here right?
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:11:00: Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:05:00
WASD offers this, but the reviews seem to suggest that the quality is average.

Average for the average user. Terrible for the discerning Geekhacker. I doubt you will find many here who disagree.

Also, I tend to hoard keycaps. Send me a PM to remind me, and I'll look at what I have boxed up in the closet I could part with.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:12:57: I believe Zeal has some Dolch left On his site. zealpc.net
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:20:46: Thank you - he does seem to have a full set and I was not aware of that site.

I'm not opposed to paying $155 for a keycap set, but I would need to hit all the bullet points - mostly the more rounded style SA/DCS caps and the large centered legends.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:23:53: Quote from: exitfire401 on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:12:57
I believe Zeal has some Dolch left On his site. zealpc.net

I always forget about Zeal. Bad jdcarpe!

Those are GMK double shots. They don't have the large centered legends you are after, but GMK are my FAVORITE keycaps.

Also, there is at least one group buy currently ongoing that may be what you like. https://ctrlalt.io/buys/hack-d-by-geeks
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: byker on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:30:03: The other thing that I think should be mentioned is that for many sets, the person who came up with them has the rights to them. For example, Matt3o designed the granite set, and has done two runs of it. Many more people want it, but he doesn't want to do another run yet, I believe because the pbt dsa quality is poor from Signature Plastics. So I couldn't go and create a bunch of granite sets to sell (at least without being a ****).
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:42:28: Thanks JD,

I like the Hacked by Geeks set a lot but I'm not sure how I'll feel about the orange over the long haul. It's very tempting.

Byker,

I had not considered the IP aspect of the sets or even the basic quality of the contract manufacturers. Do you think the idea of keeping a set rare and limited is a motivating factor or just a result of the current market realities?

Thanks,
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: IPT on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:39:46: Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:20:46
Thank you - he does seem to have a full set and I was not aware of that site.

I'm not opposed to paying $155 for a keycap set, but I would need to hit all the bullet points - mostly the more rounded style SA/DCS caps and the large centered legends.

So would you be talking about something like DSA Dolch?
(http://i.imgur.com/jwtlZie.jpg)
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:44:43: Quote from: IPT on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:39:46
Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:20:46
Thank you - he does seem to have a full set and I was not aware of that site.

I'm not opposed to paying $155 for a keycap set, but I would need to hit all the bullet points - mostly the more rounded style SA/DCS caps and the large centered legends.

So would you be talking about something like DSA Dolch?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/jwtlZie.jpg)

Yes, that's very nice and probably my #2 choice after the Retro set.

Objectively, the Dolch set looks better, but subjectively, the Retro set takes me back to a lot of good times in the 8 bit days.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:45:37: I'm surprised SP ddin't produce more DSA Dolch sets they seemed to sell very fast.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: IPT on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:45:48: Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:44:43
Quote from: IPT on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:39:46
Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:20:46
Thank you - he does seem to have a full set and I was not aware of that site.

I'm not opposed to paying $155 for a keycap set, but I would need to hit all the bullet points - mostly the more rounded style SA/DCS caps and the large centered legends.

So would you be talking about something like DSA Dolch?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/jwtlZie.jpg)

Yes, that's very nice and probably my #2 choice after the Retro set.

when i get home tonight i'll go digging in my box to see if I can find this set.
i'll PM you if I find it as I'm pretty much a DCS/Cherry Profile guy these days.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 15 January 2015, 19:31:07: Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:45:37
I'm surprised SP ddin't produce more DSA Dolch sets they seemed to sell very fast.

Probably pleased to wash their hands of them after all the controversy.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: mr.squishy on Thu, 15 January 2015, 19:44:41: As an Alps user, I feel your pain.
In a way.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: Lunatique on Sun, 18 January 2015, 01:45:29: The rarity of the desirable keycap sets is really bothering me too. It's almost like being introduced to a really awesome new cuisine and you're dying to actually eat the stuff, and then find out there isn't a single restaurant in the world that serves the cuisine anymore--all past restaurants serving that food have closed. It's like, :'(

If the keycap sets I actually lust after are available, I would not even bother doing all that customizing of the WASD stuff--I'd just buy a Retro or Toxic set and call it the day.

Do any of you have any idea where I could find any of the keycap sets in this post (ideally for TKL, if possible)? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67650.msg1594427#msg1594427

Please save me from having to put together a WASD custom set. :(
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 18 January 2015, 09:12:29: Quote from: Lunatique on Sun, 18 January 2015, 01:45:29
The rarity of the desirable keycap sets is really bothering me too. It's almost like being introduced to a really awesome new cuisine and you're dying to actually eat the stuff, and then find out there isn't a single restaurant in the world that serves the cuisine anymore--all past restaurants serving that food have closed. It's like, :'(

If the keycap sets I actually lust after are available, I would not even bother doing all that customizing of the WASD stuff--I'd just buy a Retro or Toxic set and call it the day.

Do any of you have any idea where I could find any of the keycap sets in this thread (ideally for TKL, if possible)? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67650.msg1594427#msg1594427

Please save me from having to put together a WASD custom set. :(
You will see toxic sets in classifieds soon as they get delivered, people always sell.

And a few others you link show up in classifieds every so often.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 18 January 2015, 09:38:32: Welcome to GH.

Getting the prefect keyboard is, more often than not, all about playing the waiting game.

The easiest way to get the set you want is to post in the classifieds and wait. Of course, you need to meet the requirements first.

However, if waiting isn't your thing, you can pay a little more for a smaller, but in stock selection of caps.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 19 January 2015, 02:37:10: Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:44:43
Quote from: IPT on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:39:46
Quote from: ANWN on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:20:46
Thank you - he does seem to have a full set and I was not aware of that site.

I'm not opposed to paying $155 for a keycap set, but I would need to hit all the bullet points - mostly the more rounded style SA/DCS caps and the large centered legends.

So would you be talking about something like DSA Dolch?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/jwtlZie.jpg)

Yes, that's very nice and probably my #2 choice after the Retro set.

Objectively, the Dolch set looks better, but subjectively, the Retro set takes me back to a lot of good times in the 8 bit days.

There is a chance that Matt3o (the creator of the Retro set) will run a Group Buy for either Retro, Midnight or Skull Squadron in full contour SA profile (like the SA family picture here: http://keycapsdirect.com/key-caps.php) soon. Then there is the 1976 set which you may like (all Row 3 SA profile in similar colours to Retro): https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65935.msg1542865#msg1542865

Just keep an eye on the Interest Checks, Group Buys, Classifieds and Vendors/Signature Plastics subforums and you can probably find something that catches your interest. I have the opposite problem to you, there are too many great keycap set Group Buys running that I really want, so my wallet is starting to feel the pain... We call it being WalletHacked ;)

Here is a great site for viewing keycap sets that have been made before or are are currently in production: http://keypuller.com/
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: dimmu on Mon, 19 January 2015, 04:34:37: part of the fun is the hunt. it is more satisfying the longer the wait for the keyset is. i am still looking for an evangelion and sanctuary sets with tsangan myself and i just missed out a deal on /mechmarket just a few days ago by just an hour.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 19 January 2015, 07:01:03: Quote from: rowdy on Thu, 15 January 2015, 19:31:07
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:45:37
I'm surprised SP ddin't produce more DSA Dolch sets they seemed to sell very fast.

Probably pleased to wash their hands of them after all the controversy.

Did they make many mistakes and delivery warped keys?
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 19 January 2015, 07:04:27: Quote from: gianni on Mon, 19 January 2015, 07:01:03
Quote from: rowdy on Thu, 15 January 2015, 19:31:07
Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:45:37
I'm surprised SP ddin't produce more DSA Dolch sets they seemed to sell very fast.

Probably pleased to wash their hands of them after all the controversy.

Did they make many mistakes and delivery warped keys?

No user DrugER organized a DSA dolch group buy and sold hundreds of sets then he disappeared with the money and didn't pay SP but SP had produced the caps so SP went ahead and sold the caps. There were no problems with that set it was doubleshot ABS. SP has had production problems with the dyesub PBT sets recently.
Title: Re: New user finding it difficult and discouraging to find caps I like (in stock)
Post by: Giorgio on Mon, 19 January 2015, 07:47:25: Ah... and since too much time had passed, no one was able to receive the money back? What a shame. This world of the mechanical keyboards is really complicated, I hope that it becomes sort of mainstream or we will continue in this situation, where many things are desirable only because they are rare.