Post by: Zeal on Sun, 25 January 2015, 11:10:57
Components:
62g Gold Sprit Springs
Geekhack Thin lube
Geekhack Spring lube
R1 Geekhack Thick lube (applied on stabs)
61x Gateron White switches
SIP sockets
White LEDs
White Sprit PCB
Red 5mm Acrylic plate
Gold Plated Stabs (clipped, lubed)
Red Hard anodized FMJ Case
Thick Cherry POM keycaps
------
At long last, the final batch of Gateron switches have finally been lubed, SIP'd & "shaved" (needed to shave the friction points on PCB mount plastic part to fit snugly into PCB). Forcing it in doesn't really work.
(http://i.imgur.com/4PUkaB3.jpg)
Everything lined up all nice and pretty. :cool:
(http://i.imgur.com/4HqF2Hr.jpg)
Right before soldering! (Around 2am)
(http://i.imgur.com/JQgI4zV.jpg)
Somehow managed to finish soldering without messing up w/ very sleepy (and blurry) eyes.
(http://i.imgur.com/rOik7g4.jpg)
My favourite POM keycaps on! :D
(http://i.imgur.com/ZKCaQKJ.jpg)
Night time shot:
(http://i.imgur.com/Z0Itxp3.jpg)
Typing on this baby feels so nice on the fingers. The sliders are buttery smooth (absolutely no "sandy" feeling,), and the bottom out noise is pretty much non-existant. I recorded a short footage of me doing a typing test, but I think my camera was only able to pick up the upstroke noise! :eek:
Edit: Forgot to mention -- These Gateron switches do not have any wiggle at all when I try to purposely twist the top housing left & right. This actually made it harder to pop the covers off from underneath, but also makes the switches really sturdy.
Here's a quick typing video. Spacebar is by far the loudest switch right now. :P You can hear how deep the backspace key sounds like too!
Post by: sethk_ on Sun, 25 January 2015, 11:17:56
Post by: Zeal on Sun, 25 January 2015, 11:19:23
What switch would you compare these to? I hear some tactility, so my guess is clear?
The white/clear Gateron switches are completely linear. Feels smoother than my worn in & lubed MX blacks.
Post by: azhdar on Sun, 25 January 2015, 17:03:25
very interesting .What switch would you compare these to? I hear some tactility, so my guess is clear?
The white/clear Gateron switches are completely linear. Feels smoother than my worn in & lubed MX blacks.
Beautiful build Zeal .
Post by: adrl on Sun, 25 January 2015, 17:15:42
Does the switch top fit stock cherry switches? Do cherry stems fit in gateron housing?
Post by: Sent on Sun, 25 January 2015, 17:17:20
What switch would you compare these to? I hear some tactility, so my guess is clear?
The white/clear Gateron switches are completely linear. Feels smoother than my worn in & lubed MX blacks.
Sounds like I should give these a try. Nice build. :thumb:
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 25 January 2015, 17:46:49
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 25 January 2015, 20:03:03
RIP browser.Seriously. Is there a reason for these to be 14 megabyte/each png images instead of the <500 kilobytes/each it would take for super-super-high-quality JPEGs?
Post by: ideus on Sun, 25 January 2015, 21:08:30
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 25 January 2015, 21:11:25
Post by: Evo_Spec on Sun, 25 January 2015, 21:17:36
I haven no idea what everyone is talking about, doesn't everyone have fiber optic internet? =D
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 25 January 2015, 21:22:58
P.S. got some color shifting LEDs. Disco board is a go. :thumb:
Post by: Zeal on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:09:22
What switch would you compare these to? I hear some tactility, so my guess is clear?
The white/clear Gateron switches are completely linear. Feels smoother than my worn in & lubed MX blacks.
Sounds like I should give these a try. Nice build. :thumb:
Definitely worth giving a shot! Haven't enjoyed linears like this before! :D
Thanks :thumb:very interesting .What switch would you compare these to? I hear some tactility, so my guess is clear?
The white/clear Gateron switches are completely linear. Feels smoother than my worn in & lubed MX blacks.
Beautiful build Zeal .
RIP browser. Awesome log though, love the pics and the final build :thumb:
Gotta preserve dem pixels. RIP people's data plan / crashing browsers.
I just cannot wait for all those megabytes to download... I would better close this window. :-[:( But it's really pretty!
RIP browser.Seriously. Is there a reason for these to be 14 megabyte/each png images instead of the <500 kilobytes/each it would take for super-super-high-quality JPEGs?
Only one pic is 14MB. The rest are 58MB :P
Just wanted to preserve the quality of the picture. JPGs also do not like reds and tend to add noise / distort the image.
Those switch tops looks nice!
Does the switch top fit stock cherry switches? Do cherry stems fit in gateron housing?
Yes. Gateron switch top fits on the top of Cherry switch bottoms. Remember when I said Gateron switches have no wobble when assembled? It's the top. When you put a Gateron top on a Cherry housing, it also stops the top from wiggling left/right meaning no need for stickers (not like they helped much in the first place...):P
Cherry stems do fit in V2 Gateron housings as well.
Looks awesome! I really want to try out some linear gateron switches because everyone says how smooth they are. I have a similar build and I can attest to the quietness. FMJ case + Sprits acrylic plate and then some lubed clears and thick abs doubleshots. SO QUIET.You gotta find a set of thick POM! Denser than PBT = deeper thuds! My backspace makes such a lovely thud sound. Bottom out noise is pretty much gone and the only thing you can hear are the longer keys/ upstroke!
So, can you pm me your source for the gaterons? Would save me some time and money over buying cherry rgbs for my sprit build.Sure. Just note that these tops are similar to nixdorf tops. They're not fully transparent, but are a translucent whiteish colour. Btw, you found 2x3x4 colour shifting LEDs, or regular 3mm ones?
P.S. got some color shifting LEDs. Disco board is a go. :thumb:
I'm very intrigued with these new switches, Thanks for doing a build log!Not everyone has the luxury of gigabit! :'(
I haven no idea what everyone is talking about, doesn't everyone have fiber optic internet? =D
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:32:36
Sure. Just note that these tops are similar to nixdorf tops. They're not fully transparent, but are a translucent whiteish colour. Btw, you found 2x3x4 colour shifting LEDs, or regular 3mm ones?
I found 3mm ones, but the color shift was close enough to sprits for me to be happy.
Post by: munch on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:36:53
such an awesome looking board. つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
extremely nice job, Zeal!
Post by: KatzenKinder on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:46:51
Post by: Karura on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:51:09
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:59:11
Only one pic is 14MB. The rest are 58MB :PNot to get too far off topic (the board looks great!), but JPEG images at high quality have almost no visual artifacts. Saying they “add noise/distort the image” as a blanket statement is a dramatic exaggeration / oversimplification.
Just wanted to preserve the quality of the picture. JPGs also do not like reds and tend to add noise / distort the image.
If you save your images as very high quality JPEG, you will reduce the size by a factor of 4–5 easily, with almost no perceptible image degradation. Here are some examples of Photoshop’s encoder (which isn’t all that great, check out the nice work Mozilla have been doing on mozjpeg (http://calendar.perfplanet.com/2014/mozjpeg-3-0/)) compared to a crop from your original:
More
original PNG, 880 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/BA5yxN.png)
Photoshop “save for web” JPEG encoder, 100% quality, 194 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/9bXYoM.jpg)
95% quality, 149 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/JQ5Lpz.jpg)
90% quality, 124 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/DPQ8kW.jpg)
60% quality, 47 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/4S35ps.jpg)
(http://i.cubeupload.com/BA5yxN.png)
Photoshop “save for web” JPEG encoder, 100% quality, 194 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/9bXYoM.jpg)
95% quality, 149 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/JQ5Lpz.jpg)
90% quality, 124 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/DPQ8kW.jpg)
60% quality, 47 kb
(http://i.cubeupload.com/4S35ps.jpg)
But if you just send an image with twice the resolution, even with heavy JPEG compression, you’ll get a dramatically better result than the original (assuming there’s actually data there; don’t just upsample every picture), while being much smaller.
For the purpose of showing off keyboards on a forum, there’s no reason to embed images >1MB each. Your image host takes forever to serve us up those pictures, and many people’s browsers will start having rendering issues (scrolling will slow way down, and screen repaint performance will suck). If you want to give people access to full-size originals, you should just link those separately, and embed much smaller images directly in thread.
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 26 January 2015, 01:12:59
Post by: infiniti on Mon, 26 January 2015, 02:25:34
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 26 January 2015, 02:48:54
Also: Is there a reason to pick an acrylic plate? Just ease of manufacture? Or do you like its properties better than a steel plate?
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 26 January 2015, 12:49:44
The board looks really great. Other than being smoother, are there any other noticeable differences between these Gateron and linear Cherry MX switches?
Also: Is there a reason to pick an acrylic plate? Just ease of manufacture? Or do you like its properties better than a steel plate?
The top housing on Gateron switches is slightly thicker? than Cherry ones. It fits perfectly snug and has no wobble when you twist it left & right. I guess since the slider is smoother, the stem is also naturally slipperier. Should make removing tight keycaps easier.
Thick acrylic plates can either diffuse / glow when the LEDs are installed. I used a transparent red one to match the case and in person it looks amazing! Almost as if there's no PCB in place and the switches are just floating. On top of that, it also helps dampen any type of switch noise since it hugs the lower housing. I'd say building with an acrylic plate is slightly harder than with typical 1.6-2mm SS / Aluminum plate if you use plate mounted switches since you have to check for alignment on a few keys and make sure they're fully seated while soldering. Not a problem with PCB mounted switches though.
Didn't bring my battery pack to power this keyboard for a photoshoot, so I'll just use this camera pic for now:
(http://i.imgur.com/RrlIMy5.jpg)
LEDs are white with no blue hue to them. Still ended up turning blue though. :/
Post by: swill on Mon, 26 January 2015, 13:13:23
Post by: swill on Mon, 26 January 2015, 13:14:09
Sorry. Didn't read this before replying.What switch would you compare these to? I hear some tactility, so my guess is clear?
The white/clear Gateron switches are completely linear. Feels smoother than my worn in & lubed MX blacks.
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 26 January 2015, 19:24:54
So where do I buy these Gateron switches? Are these whites similar to MX clear? Tactile, no click?
Right now, they're only available in China / Taobao. I'll see if I can stock some in the future though.
Post by: swill on Mon, 26 January 2015, 20:29:34
Cost similar to MX?So where do I buy these Gateron switches? Are these whites similar to MX clear? Tactile, no click?
Right now, they're only available in China / Taobao. I'll see if I can stock some in the future though.
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 26 January 2015, 21:34:50
Cost similar to MX?So where do I buy these Gateron switches? Are these whites similar to MX clear? Tactile, no click?
Right now, they're only available in China / Taobao. I'll see if I can stock some in the future though.
After shipping with EMS, yes.
Post by: swill on Mon, 26 January 2015, 22:37:43
If you purchase in large quantities will it bring your cost down? Aka - if you run a GB and we add our orders to yours at the same time, will it bring your costs down? I would be interested in this.Cost similar to MX?So where do I buy these Gateron switches? Are these whites similar to MX clear? Tactile, no click?
Right now, they're only available in China / Taobao. I'll see if I can stock some in the future though.
After shipping with EMS, yes.
What options do they have for tactile and not clicky? Is there a thread covering this somewhere already?
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 26 January 2015, 22:56:16
I was looking at TaoBao and there weren't any sellers with enough for a GB if they are sourced off of TaoBao.If you purchase in large quantities will it bring your cost down? Aka - if you run a GB and we add our orders to yours at the same time, will it bring your costs down? I would be interested in this.Cost similar to MX?So where do I buy these Gateron switches? Are these whites similar to MX clear? Tactile, no click?
Right now, they're only available in China / Taobao. I'll see if I can stock some in the future though.
After shipping with EMS, yes.
What options do they have for tactile and not clicky? Is there a thread covering this somewhere already?
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 26 January 2015, 23:15:02
Swill, the only tactile switch they have are browns.
Post by: swill on Tue, 27 January 2015, 06:16:08
Sourcing off Taobao for a GB is pretty silly.OK. And I guess taobao is the only possible source for them right now even at larger quantities. Fair enough.
Swill, the only tactile switch they have are browns.
Is anyone working on trying to find a more reliable source for them yet or is everyone still just seeing if they are any good?
Post by: Zeal on Tue, 27 January 2015, 10:28:30
Sourcing off Taobao for a GB is pretty silly.OK. And I guess taobao is the only possible source for them right now even at larger quantities. Fair enough.
Swill, the only tactile switch they have are browns.
Is anyone working on trying to find a more reliable source for them yet or is everyone still just seeing if they are any good?
I'm thinking about giving them a long distance call...Gimme some time ;)
Post by: Bromono on Tue, 27 January 2015, 10:48:46
Post by: Zeal on Tue, 27 January 2015, 12:18:46
hmmm now I want to build one. Could you PM me the source? I think I will add these to a JD40 I plan on building. How did you like the 62g? I may end up putting 68g.PM'd
I love my 62g linear Gaterons. Haven't tried them out with 68g, but I'm sure it'll be fine with 68 ;) (Some lube on springs/sliders would help too)
Post by: Zeal on Tue, 27 January 2015, 20:50:22
*May not apply to stock switches*
After typing for a couple days, I've noticed that I was making typos on words that consisted of "f" & "b". Pressed the switches down carefully and noticed that they were actuating at their bottom out points (or less than 1mm away from bottoming out).
It was especially noticeable when you press a key off center -- You can feel there are two stages in the switch. One regular linear force, then a "bump" towards the very bottom. I've tried swapping out the spring and it wasn't it. Easy to replace and re-lube the switch though.
Just some side comments for you guys to consider. 3.29% chance of soldering a "defective" switch from my small sample size. ;)
Still love the smoothness and swapping out one or two switches isn't a big deal for me.
Post by: Evo_Spec on Tue, 27 January 2015, 21:03:26
Small update:
*May not apply to stock switches*
After typing for a couple days, I've noticed that I was making typos on words that consisted of "f" & "b". Pressed the switches down carefully and noticed that they were actuating at their bottom out points (or less than 1mm away from bottoming out).
It was especially noticeable when you press a key off center -- You can feel there are two stages in the switch. One regular linear force, then a "bump" towards the very bottom. I've tried swapping out the spring and it wasn't it. Easy to replace and re-lube the switch though.
Just some side comments for you guys to consider. 3.29% chance of soldering a "defective" switch from my small sample size. ;)
Still love the smoothness and swapping out one or two switches isn't a big deal for me.
Thanks for the update, these kind of updates are very helpful.
Post by: Kira on Wed, 28 January 2015, 00:25:16
Post by: dustinhxc on Sun, 15 February 2015, 14:28:38
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 16 February 2015, 06:40:00
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 16 February 2015, 10:59:57
Zeal are you going to sell these?
I believe you answered that question in my vendor forum. :P Yes, I'll be selling a very limited test stock today, and if all goes well, will then order a bulk shipment.
Post by: Dihedral on Mon, 16 February 2015, 11:05:04
Zeal are you going to sell these?
I believe you answered that question in my vendor forum. :P Yes, I'll be selling a very limited test stock today, and if all goes well, will then order a bulk shipment.
Yep, I posted this and then later saw the video in your vendor forum :D