Pretty soon I'm going to start looking around for old keyboards that might be worth something. I know about IBM's Model F, Model M, and Model M13 and was wondering if there are any other keyboards I should keep an eye out for. It would also be nice if anyone could give me the current market value for the keyboard. Thanks!
Your thinking of this thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68150.0Pretty soon I'm going to start looking around for old keyboards that might be worth something. I know about IBM's Model F, Model M, and Model M13 and was wondering if there are any other keyboards I should keep an eye out for. It would also be nice if anyone could give me the current market value for the keyboard. Thanks!
Didn't you start a similar thread a week or 2 ago?
Pretty soon I'm going to start looking around for old keyboards that might be worth something. I know about IBM's Model F, Model M, and Model M13 and was wondering if there are any other keyboards I should keep an eye out for. It would also be nice if anyone could give me the current market value for the keyboard. Thanks!
Didn't you start a similar thread a week or 2 ago?
**** value, if you're just looking for them to make money, you're in the wrong place. Look out for any mechs, cool old stuff, unusual but not really worth much stuff and so on. Expand knowledge and share affordable boards. If you want to find and sell boards, do it like Cindy over at DT, by that I mean more than fair prices (often well below secondary market) and with lots of communication with the community.
**** value, if you're just looking for them to make money, you're in the wrong place. Look out for any mechs, cool old stuff, unusual but not really worth much stuff and so on. Expand knowledge and share affordable boards. If you want to find and sell boards, do it like Cindy over at DT, by that I mean more than fair prices (often well below secondary market) and with lots of communication with the community.
All these resellers make it impossible for me to get a Model M cheap. I hate them.
All these resellers make it impossible for me to get a Model M cheap. I hate them.
Industrial SSK.
Industrial SSK.
Isn't there an even rarer model SSK? My retro keyboard knowledge isn't so hot, but I swear I saw something like 2-3 years ago about some SSK board that no one even knew existed or something.
Industrial SSK.
Isn't there an even rarer model SSK? My retro keyboard knowledge isn't so hot, but I swear I saw something like 2-3 years ago about some SSK board that no one even knew existed or something.
Yeah Clack posted a picture of one that he found attached to some sign machine a couple of years ago and there have been some other pictures that have popped up lately too but no-one is sure if those are legit or hack jobs.
I plan on buying them cheap from thrift stores and reselling them here for a price.
DELL did make a line of rubber domes named QuietKeys. Imo they're the best rubber domes in the market due to their durability and reliability.
(also they have A LOT of tactile feedback) :)
All these resellers make it impossible for me to get a Model M cheap. I hate them.
All these resellers make it impossible for me to get a Model M cheap. I hate them.
is this really a thing? model m was a dime a dozen. now they are hard to find and/or expensive?
now they are hard to find and/or expensive?
ah noobs and people like OP ruin everything
Then use the money you would buy the model ms with to buy a board you like? Don't get into boards for the profit, get into it to enjoy the community and the hobby.ah noobs and people like OP ruin everything
I've already said, I just want to trade the Model Ms for modern keyboards. I'm not some ******* whos trying to drive up prices.
I plan on buying them cheap from thrift stores and reselling them here for a reasonable price. I'm not a money hungry monster, I just want more keyboards :D
Then use the money you would buy the model ms with to buy a board you like? Don't get into boards for the profit, get into it to enjoy the community and the hobby.ah noobs and people like OP ruin everything
I've already said, I just want to trade the Model Ms for modern keyboards. I'm not some ******* whos trying to drive up prices.
WTF?!? When I was eyeing Model M's a few months ago, terminals were $15 and PS/2 ones were $40 at the most. Now they're $100???? :mad:All these resellers make it impossible for me to get a Model M cheap. I hate them.
is this really a thing? model m was a dime a dozen. now they are hard to find and/or expensive?
They've been going for ~$100 on eBay lately. Total bull**** pricing and people driving those prices up. If you keep your eyes open, you can get them for $25-50 still, it's just less common outside of terminal boards.
Now they're $100???? :mad:No, that’s hyperbole:
Then use the money you would buy the model ms with to buy a board you like? Don't get into boards for the profit, get into it to enjoy the community and the hobby.ah noobs and people like OP ruin everything
I've already said, I just want to trade the Model Ms for modern keyboards. I'm not some ******* whos trying to drive up prices.
Really not happy at the way geekhack is going. Sure, some people may say that's good, we now have more dumpster divers looking out for us and increasing supply of ancient stuff. But we're not building a healthy membership roll.
Someone wants to pick up stuff for $5 and flip them for $60 and maybe do that a couple times to get his Razer Chroma or Corsair RGB. In the meantime he doesn't care or express interest, he just wants people to help him choose what's valuable. He's using our shared knowledge to make some money for himself - and he doesn't even want to look up old posts to find out what's valuable - he want us to tell him what we value so that he can make money from us!
Ellipse II in the making.
Naturally a keyboard enthusiast. You already said you're not interested in vintage keyboards, and here you are asking about which ones are valuable. Get whatever you want and hike the price up, will ya? Make more money and laugh all the way to the bank. I hope a dozen SSK's just fall into your lap and you get $2000 each.Then use the money you would buy the model ms with to buy a board you like? Don't get into boards for the profit, get into it to enjoy the community and the hobby.ah noobs and people like OP ruin everything
I've already said, I just want to trade the Model Ms for modern keyboards. I'm not some ******* whos trying to drive up prices.
I'm tired of this. People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby.
Really not happy at the way geekhack is going. Sure, some people may say that's good, we now have more dumpster divers looking out for us and increasing supply of ancient stuff. But we're not building a healthy membership roll.
Someone wants to pick up stuff for $5 and flip them for $60 and maybe do that a couple times to get his Razer Chroma or Corsair RGB. In the meantime he doesn't care or express interest, he just wants people to help him choose what's valuable. He's using our shared knowledge to make some money for himself - and he doesn't even want to look up old posts to find out what's valuable - he want us to tell him what we value so that he can make money from us!
Ellipse II in the making.
Industrial SSK.
Isn't there an even rarer model SSK? My retro keyboard knowledge isn't so hot, but I swear I saw something like 2-3 years ago about some SSK board that no one even knew existed or something.
Yeah Clack posted a picture of one that he found attached to some sign machine a couple of years ago and there have been some other pictures that have popped up lately too but no-one is sure if those are legit or hack jobs.
'
Though, the OP is perhaps better served by doing his own research. Check the marketplace to see what has been selling. Check this forum to see what keyboards people are finding and trading. Make an effort.
As for me I'm just trying to figure out how to source spherical key caps!
I'm in tears.**** value, if you're just looking for them to make money, you're in the wrong place. Look out for any mechs, cool old stuff, unusual but not really worth much stuff and so on. Expand knowledge and share affordable boards. If you want to find and sell boards, do it like Cindy over at DT, by that I mean more than fair prices (often well below secondary market) and with lots of communication with the community.Show Image(http://eclectablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ArrowChartDown.jpg)
There's probably a lesson to be learned in there, somewhere.
It's not gay when it's in a 3-way aka the golden rule
There's probably a lesson to be learned in there, somewhere. :)
Really, I think the entire issue here can be traced back to the way in which the OP went about looking for the info he wanted. OP starts new thread, asking for info on which 'retro' keyboards are most valuable, so that he can be on the lookout for some to buy cheaply, and flip them for a small profit to fund future keyboard purchases.This is the proper way, not making new threads with a question, we have dedicated threads for that.
On the other hand, another member went to the Price Check thread and inquired about the value of a couple IBM keyboards, listed by part number. I responded to him in the thread, and he replied with the cost to him, and conversation ensued as to whether he could resell those keyboards to members here.
I then sent that member a PM, showing my possible interest in one of the part numbers he listed. He replied with a list of part numbers, cost to him, and amount available, and asked if I would help him determine what, if anything, would be worth him picking up and passing on at a good value to others here. I helped him with his inquiry, and we had a nice chat via PM. When I found out that the member currently owns no mechanical keyboard at all, I offered to send him one of mine, at no cost to him, and with no expectation of anything in return. I have lots of keyboards, and I simply wanted to help a new member get started.
Now, the member I helped basically wanted to do the same thing that OP wants to do, but he went about asking for the info in a much different way. I gave him the fair market values of the part numbers he asked me about, so that he can determine if it's worth it to him to sell those keyboards at a very slight profit. Is it worth it to him to purchase a keyboard for $10, and sell it for $20 plus shipping? I don't know, but the he has the info to make that decision. He didn't ask about which keyboards would bring the most resale value, but rather the value of the keyboards he has access to, in case he can pass on some good values to other members here.
There's probably a lesson to be learned in there, somewhere. :)
This is the proper way, not making new threads with a question, we have dedicated threads for that.
I plan on buying them cheap from thrift stores and reselling them here for a reasonable price. I'm not a money hungry monster, I just want more keyboards :D
Naturally a keyboard enthusiast. You already said you're not interested in vintage keyboards, and here you are asking about which ones are valuable. Get whatever you want and hike the price up, will ya? Make more money and laugh all the way to the bank. I hope a dozen SSK's just fall into your lap and you get $2000 each.
I'm tired of this. People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby.
I plan on buying them cheap from thrift stores and reselling them here for a reasonable price. I'm not a money hungry monster, I just want more keyboards :D
Naturally a keyboard enthusiast. You already said you're not interested in vintage keyboards, and here you are asking about which ones are valuable. Get whatever you want and hike the price up, will ya? Make more money and laugh all the way to the bank. I hope a dozen SSK's just fall into your lap and you get $2000 each.
I'm tired of this. People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby.
And you guys wonder why /r/MK is kicking your ass in subscriber count.
I plan on buying them cheap from thrift stores and reselling them here for a reasonable price. I'm not a money hungry monster, I just want more keyboards :D
Naturally a keyboard enthusiast. You already said you're not interested in vintage keyboards, and here you are asking about which ones are valuable. Get whatever you want and hike the price up, will ya? Make more money and laugh all the way to the bank. I hope a dozen SSK's just fall into your lap and you get $2000 each.
I'm tired of this. People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby.
And you guys wonder why /r/MK is kicking your ass in subscriber count.
Ever heard the expression 'quality over quantity?'
People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
I plan on buying them cheap from thrift stores and reselling them here for a reasonable price. I'm not a money hungry monster, I just want more keyboards :D
Naturally a keyboard enthusiast. You already said you're not interested in vintage keyboards, and here you are asking about which ones are valuable. Get whatever you want and hike the price up, will ya? Make more money and laugh all the way to the bank. I hope a dozen SSK's just fall into your lap and you get $2000 each.
I'm tired of this. People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby.
And you guys wonder why /r/MK is kicking your ass in subscriber count.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I plan on buying them cheap from thrift stores and reselling them here for a reasonable price. I'm not a money hungry monster, I just want more keyboards :D
Naturally a keyboard enthusiast. You already said you're not interested in vintage keyboards, and here you are asking about which ones are valuable. Get whatever you want and hike the price up, will ya? Make more money and laugh all the way to the bank. I hope a dozen SSK's just fall into your lap and you get $2000 each.
I'm tired of this. People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby.
And you guys wonder why /r/MK is kicking your ass in subscriber count.
Yeah but that's reddit though. It's the club that lets any kinda rabble in, not hard to get subs over there.
What you should be focusing on is how many members migrate from /r/mk to GH after visiting here.
/r/MK has two main kinds of people: casual keyboard fans who know barely anything, and Ripster. And I'm not sure which one is worse :p
The reason GH has an upperhand on /r/MK is the knowledge base of it's users, even if you have to twist their arms to get any info from them.
The reason GH has an upperhand on /r/MK is the knowledge base of it's users, even if you have to twist their arms to get any info from them. /r/MK has two main kinds of people: casual keyboard fans who know barely anything, and Ripster. And I'm not sure which one is worse :p
Oh, I know for sure. Casual keyboard fans who know barely anything are tolerable. ;)
Ripster - the #1 reason on the planet why people leave r/MK for Geekhack.
Why'd he get banned anyway?
The reason GH has an upperhand on /r/MK is the knowledge base of it's users, even if you have to twist their arms to get any info from them. /r/MK has two main kinds of people: casual keyboard fans who know barely anything, and Ripster. And I'm not sure which one is worse :p
Oh, I know for sure. Casual keyboard fans who know barely anything are tolerable. ;)
Ripster - the #1 reason on the planet why people leave r/MK for Geekhack.
To be honest, Ripster is really helpful if you need info but he won't let go of his past with Geek Hack... and Deskthority... and /r/Keyboards... Why'd he get banned anyway?
To be honest, Ripster is really helpful if you need info but he won't let go of his past with Geek Hack... and Deskthority... and /r/Keyboards... Why'd he get banned anyway?
cuz he's a douche
jesus not with this againThe reason GH has an upperhand on /r/MK is the knowledge base of it's users, even if you have to twist their arms to get any info from them. /r/MK has two main kinds of people: casual keyboard fans who know barely anything, and Ripster. And I'm not sure which one is worse :p
Oh, I know for sure. Casual keyboard fans who know barely anything are tolerable. ;)
Ripster - the #1 reason on the planet why people leave r/MK for Geekhack.
To be honest, Ripster is really helpful if you need info but he won't let go of his past with Geek Hack... and Deskthority... and /r/Keyboards...Why'd he get banned anyway?I TAKE IT BACK! I DON'T WANT TO KNOW! :p
And you guys wonder why /r/MK is kicking your ass in subscriber count.First note that Snowdog has been here for <2 months.
Why'd he get banned anyway?
cuz he's a douche
I don't like selling, I'm a hoarder. I think coming up with prices sucks.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maqiigsQQO1rtcay2.gif)"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
You hope Hoff talks to me about what?
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
You hope Hoff talks to me about what?
You made a comment that made my blood boil. I have not been or ever have been on any other keyboard forum. I joined GH because of the community. It seems the inner circle has spoken aye?
I came to this thread because the title suggested it might contain interesting discussions of retro keyboards. And I found some of that (though it never got much beyond Model M�s), but more of it seemed to be punishing OP for being a lazy money-grubber who starts unnecessary threads and is hell bent on driving up the prices of old boards.
This is the kind of thread that convinces me I�ll never make it as a GH insider. I like keyboards, and GH has helped me to spend more money and own more boards than I can justify on any rational basis. But this thread isn�t the first where a holier-than-thou attitude suggests this isn�t a forum but a sect, the Church of the One True Keyboard Faith, and woe unto anyone who violates its unwritten tenets known only to the cognoscenti.
I understand encouraging OP to think of boards as a hobby rather than a viable income-generator � I�m pretty sure I�ll lose money if I ever sell my collection, and I doubt there are many people who�ve made it big flipping keyboards. But I�d have preferred a kinder, gentler thread supplemented with more stuff on old boards.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
You hope Hoff talks to me about what?
You made a comment that made my blood boil. I have not been or ever have been on any other keyboard forum. I joined GH because of the community. It seems the inner circle has spoken aye?
I think you need to re-read those quotes you just posted.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
You hope Hoff talks to me about what?
You made a comment that made my blood boil. I have not been or ever have been on any other keyboard forum. I joined GH because of the community. It seems the inner circle has spoken aye?
I think you need to re-read those quotes you just posted.
Who do you think I was talking to? YOU?
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
You hope Hoff talks to me about what?
You made a comment that made my blood boil. I have not been or ever have been on any other keyboard forum. I joined GH because of the community. It seems the inner circle has spoken aye?
I think you need to re-read those quotes you just posted.
Who do you think I was talking to? YOU?
If he's opened a thread to discuss vintage boards we probably would have had a rather lengthy discussion about them. But OP opened a thread asking which boards he'd be able to buy and flip for a profit. We don't like that around here as it makes getting into the game harder for everyone else.
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
You hope Hoff talks to me about what?
You made a comment that made my blood boil. I have not been or ever have been on any other keyboard forum. I joined GH because of the community. It seems the inner circle has spoken aye?
I think you need to re-read those quotes you just posted.
Who do you think I was talking to? YOU?
I was the last person who wrote that you quoted, so yeah, I thought you were talking to me. Guess you meant to quote base_on_base?
"People like you give me the urge to vomit.
Edit: Please find another hobby."
Yeah, REAL quality!
Please, feel free to return to reddit if you prefer it over Geekhack. Nothing is keeping you here.
I sure hope Hoff talks to you.
You hope Hoff talks to me about what?
You made a comment that made my blood boil. I have not been or ever have been on any other keyboard forum. I joined GH because of the community. It seems the inner circle has spoken aye?
I think you need to re-read those quotes you just posted.
Who do you think I was talking to? YOU?
I was the last person who wrote that you quoted, so yeah, I thought you were talking to me. Guess you meant to quote base_on_base?
I believe this is a simple misunderstanding started by a broken quote in the beginning. JD, you quoted base_on_base, who quoted snowdog, and you told base_on_base to return to reddit - correct? I think snowdog thought you were speaking to him, and interpreted that as you being rude to him and telling him to go back to reddit, when his only comment was attempting to stop someone from driving prices up.
If that's wrong on any count, feel free to correct me, anyone involved. :thumb:
I think we all need a group hug though.
/me hugs everyone
<3
I believe this is a simple misunderstanding started by a broken quote in the beginning. JD, you quoted base_on_base, who quoted snowdog, and you told base_on_base to return to reddit - correct? I think snowdog thought you were speaking to him, and interpreted that as you being rude to him and telling him to go back to reddit, when his only comment was attempting to stop someone from driving prices up.
If that's wrong on any count, feel free to correct me, anyone involved. :thumb:
I think we all need a group hug though.
/me hugs everyone
<3
Right, my 'back to reddit' comment was for base_on_base, not Snowdog993. And base and I had a bit of back and forth after that, so I don't think he was offended by the comment, but rather understood it as I meant it.
I don't have any beef with you, Snowdog, which is why I was confused about your ire toward me. Looks like we got it all cleared up now, though. :)
I do think a list of a "Top Ten Vintage Keyboards" would be nice, especially for newcomers.
Pretty much the only boards that seem to be valuable in the $100+ sort of way are IBMs (SSK, Industrial, Model F, etc), Apple Extended Keyboards (especially the Salmon versions), and the Northgate Omnikey.There’s no way you’ll get $100+ for an Apple Extended Keyboard unless it’s in mint condition, with orange Alps switches (orange switches are more desirable than salmon), and even then it’s a slight stretch; they’re just too common. And there are plenty of other keyboards that can fetch high prices.
If the goal is to simply flip keyboards, thrift shops would be equally profitable for just about any model. I've never seen more than $10 worth of boards in a single shop, and a decent vintage mechanical should go for $20-$30 in most cases.If the goal is to make money, flipping keyboards is unlikely to be especially profitable. It takes way more work than just doing some other job. If the goal is to try a bunch of keyboards, and then sell whatever you don’t like to bankroll the hobby, then thrift stores, flea markets, and e-recyclers are a great source, and I wouldn’t worry too much about finding “rare” boards. Just buy it if you find it interesting, since the price will usually be peanuts, and then resell whatever you decide you don’t want to keep. I wouldn’t expect to make a great profit, but many keyboards can be sold for at least $20 + shipping, so if you get them for $1–10, it’s at least not a money-loser.
If typing experience is the goal, I say nothing compares to a Model M,It’s all down to personal preference.
I do think a list of a "Top Ten Vintage Keyboards" would be nice, especially for newcomers. It would be useful to have a good, general, central referenceTop 10 is impossible. But anyway, that central reference exists: http://deskthority.net/wiki/
I was referring to a bridge of sorts, something condensed and imminently readable that would allow someone to know a general comparison of some of the best boards out there, and get someone started. [...] For example, imagine when you first got into this hobby (vintage boards in particular), and how much more quickly you could have gotten your own preferences worked out if you had a guide of sorts from someone knowledgeable. "Top Ten" may be the wrong wording, but at least a "Keyboards to look out for" list or "So, you're looking for a vintage keyboard..." the boards listed would represent a well-known, easy-to-find, or otherwise important keyboard to give you a good idea of what's out there.
In fact, to take it a step further, if you're into headphones (I know a lot of us are), look how helpful a guide like the ones on headphones.com can be.headphones.com seems to be a thin wrapper page which loads headsets.com in a frame; headsets.com is a headset retailer with no helpful guides that I can see. Maybe you’re talking about a different site?
I was referring to a bridge of sorts, something condensed and imminently readable that would allow someone to know a general comparison of some of the best boards out there, and get someone started. [...] For example, imagine when you first got into this hobby (vintage boards in particular), and how much more quickly you could have gotten your own preferences worked out if you had a guide of sorts from someone knowledgeable. "Top Ten" may be the wrong wording, but at least a "Keyboards to look out for" list or "So, you're looking for a vintage keyboard..." the boards listed would represent a well-known, easy-to-find, or otherwise important keyboard to give you a good idea of what's out there.
Go write it then! Such a resource isn’t going to write itself.
I think it’s a much more problematic subject than you are making it out to be here, but please, prove me wrong.QuoteIn fact, to take it a step further, if you're into headphones (I know a lot of us are), look how helpful a guide like the ones on headphones.com can be.headphones.com seems to be a thin wrapper page which loads headsets.com in a frame; headsets.com is a headset retailer with no helpful guides that I can see. Maybe you’re talking about a different site?
Most sites with product buying guides on them are for-profit sites which make money from affiliate deals, and can therefore pay for the hundreds of hours of work it takes to write a good guide. I highly doubt there’s a good guide to something like “the best headphones made between 1970 and 1990”.
I'd rather see someone on the lookout for vintage keyboards in order to flip them for profit, than see those keyboards tossed into a garbage bin because some thrift shop owner, or recycling center didn't realize what they had. Or would it be better that those keyboards pass into oblivion rather than become overpriced on eBay?The problem is, that these resellers don't necessarily save them from being tossed into the garbage. More likely are they buying them for cheap, before an enthusiast can do it. Or, in the case of ebay, are bidding every single board up to a price I won't be paying.
I'd rather see someone on the lookout for vintage keyboards in order to flip them for profit, than see those keyboards tossed into a garbage bin because some thrift shop owner, or recycling center didn't realize what they had. Or would it be better that those keyboards pass into oblivion rather than become overpriced on eBay?The problem is, that these resellers don't necessarily save them from being tossed into the garbage.
Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.
Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.
Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.
Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.
Since I'm not about to pay $2K for a 77, their availability at that price is no different to me than their nonexistence.
At least at that price they'll be around, and maybe at some point it'll come down.
I expect jdcarpe will walk back that comment about ''shredding" an entire species of keyboard for the sake of "the community."
Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.
Since I'm not about to pay $2K for a 77, their availability at that price is no different to me than their nonexistence.
At least at that price they'll be around, and maybe at some point it'll come down.
My point exactly -- so what if someone wants $5000 for a Model M with a dillithium crystal inside it? If someone else is willing to pay that price, who am I to scold them or the seller for a transaction that doesn't involve me? I expect jdcarpe will walk back that comment about ''shredding" an entire species of keyboard for the sake of "the community."
I am so disappointed in this thread. Perhaps I should do something else today. Maybe there is something good on TV to watch.
As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.
Honestly, if you can't bear to read some debating from differing points of view, maybe GH isn't a great way for you to spend your time. Just being honest with you. There are some strong opinions here, and some who aren't afraid to say what they think, and stand behind their words. Some areas of the site are more lighthearted, if you want to confine your browsing to those areas. No offense to you, just telling it like it is.
Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.
The point is that we shouldn't be encouraging or enabling profiteering. Just because something is uncommon or an important part of keyboard history doesn't mean someone should be profiteering off of it.So basically, people should sell things for below market value, and no one should ever try to find rare keyboards from obscure sources and resell them for profit, because nubbinator says so?
As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.
You�re crazy. Do you feel the same way about, say, Van Gogh paintings? Perhaps it would be better to shred them all than let some �art enthusiast� pay millions for one?
As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.
And JD can say that he'd rather see them all shredded.
Why aren't people allowed to hold the opposite opinion of the one you're defending? :confused:
If these reach $500, $1000, or $2000, it�s not some criminal conspiracy to defraud the hapless �enthusiast�.
No, it's someone who happens upon one of these, does a little "research" on eBay, and thinks to themselves, "Oh my God, one of these sold last year for $1000! I can ask that price for mine, and get it." Not everyone is insane and willing to pay those kind of prices for a (questionably?) rare vintage keyboard. But now, to a seller, that is the price, due to the precedent of someone who had more money than sense paying a ridiculous amount for something they desperately wanted.That’s how the market works. The seller will then price their board accordingly, and it will either sell (in which case they picked the right price) or just sit unsold for a few months until they decide to lower the price.
capitalism vs. socialism threadcommunity vs. craigslist/eBay thread
As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.
Sure, but you get price creep and price inflation from people who either sell at inflated prices. Given that we're a community of enthusiasts, we should be encouraging fair prices that keep the market prices reasonable.
Personally, I'd rather see all the 4704 77-key boards in the world shredded into oblivion than see an enthusiast pay $2000 for one.
Since I'm not about to pay $2K for a 77, their availability at that price is no different to me than their nonexistence.
At least at that price they'll be around, and maybe at some point it'll come down.
My point exactly -- so what if someone wants $5000 for a Model M with a dillithium crystal inside it? If someone else is willing to pay that price, who am I to scold them or the seller for a transaction that doesn't involve me? I expect jdcarpe will walk back that comment about ''shredding" an entire species of keyboard for the sake of "the community."
As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.
And JD can say that he'd rather see them all shredded.
Why aren't people allowed to hold the opposite opinion of the one you're defending? :confused:
As they say, something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. A profiteer can't sell what others won't buy. They're definitely not holding a gun to anyone's head.
And JD can say that he'd rather see them all shredded.
Why aren't people allowed to hold the opposite opinion of the one you're defending? :confused:
I don't think 139 is claiming that JD can't hold that an opposite opinion. I think the point he's making is that the opinion expressed by JD isn't rational.
And I probably shouldn't have even commented when I did, because I'm really not a fan of these discussions. They're perfectly fine and civil, it just feels like we're all wasting our time here. But maybe I'm just feeling particularly cynical right now. :P
And I probably shouldn't have even commented when I did, because I'm really not a fan of these discussions. They're perfectly fine and civil, it just feels like we're all wasting our time here. But maybe I'm just feeling particularly cynical right now. :P
Hoff, would you rather see all examples of a rare keyboard shredded, rather than see them sold for a price that offends your sensibilities? I know you're probably a friend of JD, but could you, for the sake of the hobby, agree that his statement is ridiculous beyond all bounds? DESTROY part of keyboard history for the sake of the 'community'? Doesn't that sound like some seriously screwed up priorities to you? What's your opinion, Hoff?
Fact of the matter is that regardless of how you view selling keyboards at a profit, no one is entitled to any help or knowledge from others in doing so.Agreed. No one is obligated to share their knowledge of keyboards.
If members do not want to help in what they consider profiteering, that is their right and it is ignorant to be offended by that.I'm not offended by members refusing to help a seller determine a fair market value for a keyboard, or help them determine whether it is rare or not. I'm fine with members withholding information for the sake of a lower price, because it's perfectly normal to want a lower price.
It would be foolish for any one of them to help the market value increase. Just because demand will drive price doesn't mean that anyone has to help you be a part of that.It's not some GH member's desire to maintain lower (or 'fairer') prices that I find ridiculous; it's the draping of that self-interest in a desire to help "the community". What they really want is lower prices, which is fine, just please don't pretend it's for love of the hobby, or the "community" -- because one of the leading members of this "community" stands by his statement that he would rather see a part of keyboard history be destroyed rather than see them priced higher than he deems acceptable.
Why does everyone have to have an opinion about it? Just because I have strong feelings about something, doesn't mean everyone else has to have an opinion about the subject. Or an opinion about my statement, for that matter. What if someone doesn't care one way or the other?
What a hypocrite!
if everybody would just stop being poor and then we could all afford expensive keyboards.
What a hypocrite!
Nice. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do.
if everybody would just stop being poor and then we could all afford expensive keyboards.
What a hypocrite!
Nice. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do.
I've edited the post. You're right. I shouldn't assume you're a hypocrite. I apologize for the remark. Your statement that you'd rather see an entire species of rare keyboards be relegated to oblivion rather then be overpriced still appears extremelyhypocriticalirrational, and at complete odds with your stated commitment to "the community." For the sake of the community, the hobby, etc. -- you'd maim it forever. How does that make any sense at all? Backing off from that statement would require you admitting that I -might- have a point.
You're being just as argumentative... and you both make perfectly valid points. Just agree to disagree already and stop arguing for the sake of arguing.What a hypocrite!
Nice. You don't even know me, so don't act like you do.
I've edited the post. You're right. I shouldn't assume you're a hypocrite. I apologize for the remark. Your statement that you'd rather see an entire species of rare keyboards be relegated to oblivion rather then be overpriced still appears extremelyhypocriticalirrational, and at complete odds with your stated commitment to "the community." For the sake of the community, the hobby, etc. -- you'd maim it forever. How does that make any sense at all? Backing off from that statement would require you admitting that I -might- have a point.
Or maybe I just want fair prices for everyone, not only for myself. I can't collect ALL the keyboards. And by the way, that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.
You have no point, other than to be argumentative.
You guys keep talking about how it should be all about the community... but that is only possible in an ideal world.
Do we live in an ideal world? No.
It's like searching for perfection... it's futile... and complaining about how you can't find it isn't helping...
i blame the mexicans, who's with me?I blame the schools
that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.
Part of community is respecting one another. Communities do not seek to profiteer off one another. That is not to say they do not seek to make small profits on things, but they seek to keep the profits in line with their expenses and work put into it.Except what you’re “standing up against” is: one guy goes to a bunch of e-cyclers, manages to find some rare stuff that would otherwise sit on a basement shelf for years or maybe get scrapped, and posts some auctions on ebay after first restoring and USB converting several of the boards (important note: ebay is not geekhack), and then an entirely different guy makes a link on geekhack ridiculing the price of one ebay auction. And then you jump on the first guy for being a bad community member. Then that’s not enough, but you and jd have to keep going on about it in multiple unrelated threads.
[...]
This world is not an ideal world, that's why I strive and push for things to be better. Community is work and you have to have disagreements and work through them to have a strong community. So while you may see it as complaining, I see it as standing up against something that I feel damages the community.
Quote from: nubbinatorPart of community is respecting one another. Communities do not seek to profiteer off one another. That is not to say they do not seek to make small profits on things, but they seek to keep the profits in line with their expenses and work put into it.Except what you�re �standing up against� is stuff like: one guy goes to a bunch of e-cyclers, manages to find some rare stuff that would otherwise sit on a basement shelf for years or maybe get scrapped, and posts some auctions on ebay after first restoring and USB converting several of the boards (important note: ebay is not geekhack), and then an entirely different guy makes a link on geekhack ridiculing the price of one ebay auction. And then you jump on the first guy for being a bad community member. Then that�s not enough, but you and jd have to keep going on about it in multiple unrelated threads.
[...]
This world is not an ideal world, that's why I strive and push for things to be better. Community is work and you have to have disagreements and work through them to have a strong community. So while you may see it as complaining, I see it as standing up against something that I feel damages the community.
I mean, seriously, wtf? There�s more disrespect here coming from the self-righteous witch-hunters than from any of the keyboard salesmen.
[I�ll agree that the OP of this specific thread was being tasteless and inappropriate. But we�ve already gone over that to death, and doesn�t need to be repeated further.]
Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I’m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of “fairness”.
Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.
Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I’m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of “fairness”.
Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.
Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.
I have not been nasty and vicious at all in this thread nor was I in the other thread I'm sure you're referencing. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68047.0)
As to the "naive" notion of fairness, it's not naive, it's idealistic. I like to believe that a community that really cares about itself and the members of the community would strive to be better. I guess I'm wrong. Maybe I should just start selling all my Clacks and Bros for inflated prices. Maybe I should sell my AT&T 305B for $150 because it's rare. I could go on, but I won't because I think you get my point. You can call it ridiculous and naive, I call it trying to do what's best for the community.
Maybe I should just start selling all my Clacks and Bros for inflated prices.It seems like “Clacks and Bros” are distributed mostly via lottery mechanism, with demand outstripping supply and market prices much higher than the lottery price. My vague understanding is that people who enter that lottery implicitly (or explicitly?) sign up for some kind of agreement to never resell them for more than they paid? I’m not sure what the story is, I don’t really follow the subject, and I don’t have any dog in that fight.
Maybe I should sell my AT&T 305B for $150 because it's rare.If someone will pay you $150 for it, that sounds totally reasonable to me. I’m not sure if anyone’s going to pay $150 for it, but I could certainly imagine it happening, I wouldn’t call it “unfair”, and I don’t think it would have any negative effect whatsoever on the community. Personally I wouldn’t spend more than about $20 for the keycaps because they’re mildly interesting, but I could imagine someone else really wanting that board.
So have we determined that the 4704 77-key is, in fact, the "Most valuable retro keyboard"
as is the question put on the table for this thread?
Do we have any nominees for any keyboard more valuable?
So have we determined that the 4704 77-key is, in fact, the "Most valuable retro keyboard"Not a chance.
So have we determined that the 4704 77-key is, in fact, the "Most valuable retro keyboard"
as is the question put on the table for this thread?
Do we have any nominees for any keyboard more valuable?
What I don't understand is why that one is considered more valuable than the 62-key 4704.
I'll go with the DataHand Pro II (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DataHand-Professional-II-Ergonomic-keyboard-/281497842360?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item418a9432b8&nma=true&si=ceVF4i%252BQfG5NMWgmFWAmBBtXX%252F8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557) with 8 bids at $2,500.
Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.
Your argument basically boils down to: As a buyer, you want a low price, so you hope that all sellers are totally clueless about the value of what they have and can’t get information about market-clearing prices, and you want them to sell everything at a discount.
That is nonsense. Sensationalism should not drive a price spike that becomes the new norm, that is what should be counteracted.There can’t be a “new norm” for 77-key 4704 boards, since there was never a “norm” to begin with. Until a few months ago, there were precisely zero with known whereabouts. Now there are 3 that we know about, and only one of them is for sale at any price. (I’m sure there are a bunch more in some bank back office somewhere, but no one knows how to locate or liberate them.)
However, they do not have to support that behavior monetarily or by advising them/providing knowledge.Absolutely, I agree. I think the OP of this thread was tasteless and got some well-deserved mockery. (And judging from his edited post he has figured that out, and will hopefully stick around as a productive community member; it seemed like an honest mistake.)
Your argument basically boils down to: As a buyer, you want a low price, so you hope that all sellers are totally clueless about the value of what they have and can�t get information about market-clearing prices, and you want them to sell everything at a discount.
That is nonsense. Sensationalism should not drive a price spike that becomes the new norm, that is what should be counteracted.
Fact of the matter is that the community cannot realistically stop resellers from inflating prices. However, they do not have to support that behavior monetarily or by advising them/providing knowledge. There is only so much a group like this can do, but anyone wanting to benefit personally by profiteering from the community in any form is not going to be well received.
that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.
While I can't afford it, I don't really see the point in destroying a perfectly good keyboard. Don't you think whoever buys it will likely use it? I'd tend to think an enthusiast is probably the only one who will buy it at that price anyway.
Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.
Why is raising the value of an item bad for the community?
Or maybe I just want fair prices for everyone, not only for myself. I can't collect ALL the keyboards. And by the way, that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.
You have no point, other than to be argumentative.
Quotethat ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.
While I can't afford it, I don't really see the point in destroying a perfectly good keyboard. Don't you think whoever buys it will likely use it? I'd tend to think an enthusiast is probably the only one who will buy it at that price anyway.
So what you're saying, 1391406, is that if the price is too high for you, that's okay with you -- if someone wants it badly enough at that price, that's their business? See, now that sounds reasonable to me. Also, prices can and do change -- seeing a keyboard lost to the hobby forever can't be undone.Maybe your assessment wasn't directed specifically at me. I'm not sure.Huh? No, I�m annoyed at JD and nubbinator (and a few other folks) who have been downright nasty and vicious in this and a couple other threads, in defense of an IMO ridiculous and totally naive concept of �fairness�.
Again, I agree. This attitude is bad for the hobby, and bad for Geekhack.Quote from: 1391406Why is raising the value of an item bad for the community?
It should be considered 'good' since the value of the existing collections has gone up -- assuming the pricing isn't due to ignorance of the item's actual worth -- an ignorance that some here at Geekhack believe serves the "community".Or maybe I just want fair prices for everyone, not only for myself. I can't collect ALL the keyboards. And by the way, that ONE keyboard isn't doing the community any good as it is, because the asking price is ****ING RIDICULOUS. Might as well be destroyed for all the use it's going to get.
I respect your intent, and I believe it's genuine -- your desire to help the "community". But I think your statement displays an extreme attitude that does not help the hobby, or Geekhack, or "the community." And your refusal to acknowledge that your statement is wildly irrational just reinforces that perception to others. My point is that even someone with purely evil motives still serves the hobby when they save a keyboard from the scrap pile. And they cannot get a price beyond what someone is willing to pay.Quote from: jdcarpeYou have no point, other than to be argumentative.
You have no ego, to hold fast to your statement.
I'll go with the DataHand Pro II (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DataHand-Professional-II-Ergonomic-keyboard-/281497842360?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item418a9432b8&nma=true&si=ceVF4i%252BQfG5NMWgmFWAmBBtXX%252F8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557) with 8 bids at $2,500.
Insane!
Btw, I just bought DH personal w/ chair mount (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272193427918) for $1000 on ebay. I'm happy that I'll have a backup DH now (since dodohand (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0) is still being worked on).
It might be hard to believe... but I'm quite happy to pay $1000 for it. I tried other keyboards (last time it was kinesis advantage) and none comes close to the comfort of DH. YMMV, of course, but to me DH is priceless "retro" keyboard and I'm not surprised someone bid $2500 for it...
While that is damn awesome, how do you handle mouse usage?Hmm, I'm mostly mouse-free. I've configured my window manager (fluxbox at the time) to be nearly completely operational with just keyboard shortcuts.
All these resellers make it impossible for me to get a Model M cheap. I hate them.
So have we determined that the 4704 77-key is, in fact, the "Most valuable retro keyboard"
as is the question put on the table for this thread?
Do we have any nominees for any keyboard more valuable?