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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: kishy on Sun, 16 August 2009, 21:08:13
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Take a gander at this (see attachments).
It has Alps switches which happen to be white...I'm guessing then that this is what you call "white alps switches" (before finding this site I didn't know different varieties even existed).
Came with an Ultinet 386-33 "Quick Cache" laptop. Laptop has never worked in the time I've had it so I finalized its death, sacrificing it to get my other 386 laptop partially operational.
Curious to know what sort of interface we think this uses, and if perhaps it could be used somehow. Hardcore collectors are welcome to put in offers on it (but I doubt it has much value); I have no real use for it but I do have a board with alps switches and I'd like a set of extra switches available since they do seem to fail from time to time.
Nothing special to see on the bottom; sticker is metallic so flash just made it unreadable. Basically says "Numeric Keypad" and has a long serial number underneath.
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From the look, they look more like ML switches than white Alps. Do you have a closeup or a shot at an angle? Also, what's printed on the switch (if anyhing?)
Cherry MLs, however, should have a black stem. Maybe ML copies (although I've never seen any)?
-huha
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They definitely say "ALPS" on them, no mistaking it. I can't get a clear up close shot, I'm finding macro mode on my camera absolutely useless.
Relative to the photo, they are "upside down" (that is, ALPS is written upside down, on what appears to be the lower side of the switch). They also say "C" (perhaps type C, revision C, model C, etc)
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Those switches look like brey versions of the switches in my NEC Technologies keyboard.
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Funny how they managed to get everything done with only a 3-section connector. With only one wire for data, this can't be a conventional AT or serial keyboard interface.
EDIT: One of these has been floating around on eBay.de (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120459767026&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT) for ages. Seems like there aren't very many of these shleptops with missing numpad around.
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Its likely a proprietary one wire serial interface.
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Aw. Well, I didn't expect it to be in any way normal; it has 2 wires only and there's no way you can get power, ground, clock and data on 2 wires.
I do still HAVE the laptop it's from, but it isn't a pretty sight.
Photos, anyone?
Coming later today or tomorrow or next week or something like that.
Oh, and, lololololol 1 euro.
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Aw. Well, I didn't expect it to be in any way normal; it has 2 wires only and there's no way you can get power, ground, clock and data on 2 wires.
You don't need a clock line (think RS232), and it is possible to send data over the same line as Vcc, tho that would be a bit convoluted given that the connector is 3 contact. Are you sure there isn't a third wire broken off at the strain relief? It looks like there's some bare copper hanging there.
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Nope, it's only 2 wires. Two solder points on PCB, 2 wires, and plus this worked 100% when the laptop still worked.
I was referring to the AT/PS/2 protocol.
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What kind of keyboard on the laptop?
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Well, here ya go.
I did not kill this thing needlessly though...it was barely functional to begin with (something on what I suspect to be the "video card" had blown up causing major display issues; figured I'd use it as a parts donor for my other 386 laptop).
Yes, I broke the key partially when I removed it. It does however stay in place despite that. In fact, because it broke, it helps you guys see exactly how it fits in place (the white triangle in the keyswitch is the part of the key that broke off).
These keys do make a very gentle but noticeable "click" upon being pressed down.
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Sorry you broke the key just because of my curiosity.
So these are switches? Hard to tell from the pic. Any name on it?
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Sorry you broke just because of my curiosity.
So these are switches? Hard to tell from the pic. Any name on it?
Nonsense, I was probably throwing it out anyway (to be honest I had hopes to in some way use this keyboard for something, but I had and still have no clue what).
Yes, they are switches (definitely not your traditional scissor type either).
The only clear text on the switch says "2B" in a circle.
Above it, there is a logo, but it is very tiny and hard to see.
The logo is in the shape of an oval and the text inside appears to be cursive.
The first letter is A, unquestionably.
It might actually say Alps, but I don't want to say that for sure. It's the right length though...
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(Fixed the typo in my last post.)
The old Alps logo is oval with a script font. This looks interesting. Any chance for better pics?
Also, please check the switch pcb for names/logos.
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I have no doubt it says Alps then if they did use an oval-shaped logo at some time. In the scanned keyswitch attachment, the oval-shaped logo is inside of the upper small circular indent in the plastic. I'd say the logo itself is no more than 1mm wide.
On sticker:
K/B:82011892Z
Most likely an internal serial number used by Ultinet; all the laptop parts had similar stickers on them.
All keyswitches are labeled on the bottom of the PCB.
Text at bottom:
NTC
3301C
71-
0775A
-004
There is a logo in the upper left, it looks like a T coming out of the top of an M.
T
M
(imagine the T inside of the M)
The number 40001 is to the right of this logo.
Edit:
Keyboard has 6 wires on its plug. There are ICs on the front, under the spacebar. It might be possible that this uses the AT standard.
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Thanks for the additional info and pics.
This looks like an NTC (Nan Tan Computer) made keyboard using an unknown (to me) type of Alps switch.
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Thanks for the additional info and pics.
This looks like an NTC (Nan Tan Computer) made keyboard using an unknown (to me) type of Alps switch.
You're welcome, and thank you for the input. I think I'll hang onto this.
Those keyswitches are surprisingly complex, I wish I had a way of showing them to you that didn't suck.
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Digging this up again because I had another look at that numpad...the switches really are unlike any Alps switch I've seen a photo of, and their tactility is quite a bit different from both the white Alps switches in my Laser board and the (believed to be original complicated) white Alps switches in my friend's Focus FK-5001.
Does anyone recognize these from a keyboard they have? They're definitely Alps...and definitely white...but not "white Alps".
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5860&stc=1&d=1258863607)
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are those the same peculiar kind of ALPS as in the Apple Adjustable Keyboard?
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are those the same peculiar kind of ALPS as in the Apple Adjustable Keyboard?
I couldn't tell ya.
I have the Apple M0116 which supposedly has "salmon" sliders if I remember reading that right. Sounds better than "flesh coloured" which is more accurate. Also I checked out my AEKII and it seems to have really quiet whites.
Oh, and about weird Alps, the actual laptop keyboard (not numpad) itself mentioned in this thread...anyone dig up anything new about those?
If someone wants the switches off these potentially rare pieces, get in touch.
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kind of far away, but check out the shape of the interface:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3437/3240536124_a3e855241a_o.jpg)
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I don't ever think I've seen an Apple keyboard like that ever before!
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Guess it's the Apple version of the M15 (but not nearly as good of course).
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The M15 pivots in 3 dimensions, but this Apple model pivots only in a plane.
Unfortunately the pivoting Apple model is also The Most Failure prone (TM) keyboard I've had the displeasure to own in thirty years. And I'm generally an Apple fanboi. I've thrown away more of these than I'm comfortable saying on a board like this.
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The M15 pivots in 3 dimensions, but this Apple model pivots only in a plane.
Unfortunately the pivoting Apple model is also The Most Failure prone (TM) keyboard I've had the displeasure to own in thirty years. And I'm generally an Apple fanboi. I've thrown away more of these than I'm comfortable saying on a board like this.
If you still have any trash ones, feel like showing us detailed switch pics?
Pretty please with a cherry (or I suppose Alps) on top?
Someone here should set up a switch museum. People with junk unusual boards can donate switches.
Or did Sandy already do that?
Oh, and this (http://www.henzconsulting.com/Pages/Projects/keyboard.htm) gives me hope that my Wireless Model M isn't such an impossible task...
Someone did a controller swap on one of these Apple Adjustables and it involved basically developing a new matrix, though of course it was done with wires since these are switches.
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THAT mod cracked me up. He actually SCORED AWAY ALL TRACES around the switches. The only thing the PCB does is hold the switches.
Lol, he did say it took a month.
It would be a very user-customizable arrangement if all boards with individual switches were "wire wrapped" (with for example a "common ground" and then a dedicated wire for each key to the controller)
Messy for sure though, and if something went wrong it would be fairly nightmarish to troubleshoot...but definitely nice on the customization front.
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individual switches were "wire wrapped" (with for example a "common ground" and then a dedicated wire for each key to the controller...
I'm actually building such a beast now. I have no clue who's the manufacturer of my $0.45 key switches; they look like Cherries (¿Cherrys?) with a cross section like a + symbol, but there's no words on them, only numbers.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5882&d=1258928790)
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The Apple Adjustable goes for cheap on ebay.
Here's a pic of the Alps switches used in my Toshiba T5200 keyboard:
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5315/t5200_04.jpg)
Unlike other Alps switches they are not plate mounted. And different than the ones in the Apple. The T5200 switches are easy to open and the Apple ones are not, IIRC.