geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Ludovician on Tue, 10 February 2015, 06:27:33
-
Hello,
I'm fairly new to the concept of mechanical keyboards, but as I've been looking around at them for a while and just today got my hands on my first one, I was wondering what opinions are like on the ones that I have not heard so much about, or had a chance to feel.
The one I already have is a Model M, and I'm enjoying the buckling springs. I've ordered a Cherry Brown keyboard, but I'm not sure if I'll like that yet. Now, I've heard a fair amount of talk about Topre and Alps. I sort of understand how Topre works, and I haven't really looked into Alps yet, so any info at all on Alps would be interesting to me. I've also heard that there is a lot of interest for Topre keyboards among those who like buckling springs, although they appear to be entirely different in design. Is there a specific reason for this?
So I've covered Cherry, BS, Alps and Topre... are there any other major players I should know about?
Thanks.
-
MX - most popular and easy to mod to personal preference.
Topre - luxury rubber domes.
Alps - what mx should have been.
Then you have your various vintage switches.
If you are new I would stick to MX and find what you like. If you find your self going deeper into the rabbit hole, Topre may surprise you :)
-
http://matias.ca/switches/ are another switch.
I'm recently returning to mechanical keyboards too, and want to try both Matias and Topre. MX isn't doing it for me yet. I think that my old Model Ms set my expectations too high :/
-
Browns are nice. Make sure you spend some time typing on them as this will nicely break them in and you'll have an accurate feel for their mechanism.
I need some buckling spring in my life soon, but for now HHKB and Topre own my soul. :)
-
If you like your Model M, you need to try an IBM model F. More delightful to type on than an M. Usually harder to find though and will mostly have to be converted to work with ps2 or usb. The exception being the AT F. Be warned though they will likely require lots of work to get working and won't have a standard ANSI layout unless modded.
-
I think I'd like to try a Model F but finding a reasonably priced M in Australia is rare enough. I'll keep an eye out.
Topre sounds really tempting. I would definitely have to at least give one a trial run before dropping several hundred dollars on a keyboard I may not even like, though.
-
http://matias.ca/switches/ are another switch.
Matias switches are modern clones of Alps.
Matias Quiet is a clone of Alps with cream-coloured sliders, and Matias Click is a clone of clicky Alps with white sliders.
The big difference in feel between Alps/Matias and Cherry MX is that the tactile point is higher up in the stroke and that the force curve is sharper - starts out earlier and ends higher.
People have confused broken-in Cream Alps with rubber domes because of the similarity in feel. (I'm probably going to get some flak from Alps-fans for saying that. now .. :-* )
-
Kailh are another manufacturer of switches, that are a lot like Cherry switches in that they have the same sized stems, similar housing, and a lot of the switch types have similar actuation forces and feels to their Cherry counterparts.
They have improved a lot over the years and shouldn't be as quickly dismissed as they used to be.
-
Hello,
I'm fairly new to the concept of mechanical keyboards, but as I've been looking around at them for a while and just today got my hands on my first one, I was wondering what opinions are like on the ones that I have not heard so much about, or had a chance to feel.
The one I already have is a Model M, and I'm enjoying the buckling springs. I've ordered a Cherry Brown keyboard, but I'm not sure if I'll like that yet. Now, I've heard a fair amount of talk about Topre and Alps. I sort of understand how Topre works, and I haven't really looked into Alps yet, so any info at all on Alps would be interesting to me. I've also heard that there is a lot of interest for Topre keyboards among those who like buckling springs, although they appear to be entirely different in design. Is there a specific reason for this?
So I've covered Cherry, BS, Alps and Topre... are there any other major players I should know about?
Thanks.
The key phrase is "chance to feel". What switch you would like the best depends on your own use and personal preferences, so asking others about it is like: "What keyboard do you think is best for me". You are the only one that can answer that. And you shall try it yourself, and you should do your own research.
Just in case you do not know about them yet, GH and DT have very nice wikis, also the keyboard section at GH has a FaQ where you can find a great compilation of information about keyboards, and switches. There is also a section where you can ask "simple questions" but not be misleaded by the term simple, the answers are always well elaborated and professional.
A last piece of advice is: Be aware the switch would feel different depending on the overall board construction, weight, materials, if it has a supporting plate or not, and even the caps plastic and profile. Topres are build as an overall assembly, while MX are individual switches. Finally, to find the best keyboard for you is the quest most of GH members are still engaged in, so it is quite doubtful someone can answer that question for you.
-
Matias Quiet is a clone of Alps with cream-coloured sliders …
Alps used ivory¹ for linear, tactile, and damped tactile.
¹ Officially it's "ivory" not "cream", but I left it as "cream" on the wiki as everyone's used to that term. Really, though, we should use "ivory" at least for SKCMBB (damped) as that's the term used in the 1994 Alps catalogue. However, the three might not all be the same shade and we only have the name for the colour used for SKCMBB …
-
...so it is quite doubtful someone can answer that question for you.
Yeah, I understand. I'll be making my own decisions based on feel. I was mostly wondering what other switches I should find out more about. I guess I should just keep looking around at the options, get my hands on some Alps/Matias stuff and keep looking for chances to try other options out.
Thanks for the tip about the other factors that affect the feel of the keyboard.
-
Hmm....
Try the Browns for a while. You may not like them much at first, actually, since they're a lot lighter and less tactile than BS, and the tactile point and actuation is higher, with less cushioning after actuation.
I find BS to have a slightly weird-feeling mushiness after actuation, but it stops there being any shock on bottom-out. MX Clears actually have a slightly similar feeling with the different spring force profile and larger tactile bump. If you are used to heavier springs, stock Clears are nice, especially when plate mounted and in a heavy, solid case. I prefer plate mounted boards for getting an idea of switches, since it isolates the switch feel a bit.
It's really a personal quest to find "your" switch. There always seem to be more switches to try, though ;) I've tried all the MX variants and most mods (still have to try jailhouse Blues, though) on both PCB and plate mount with plastic and aluminium cases, one Alps clone, Apple hairpin spring, Model M buckling spring, Topre 55g, Topre 45g (very briefly only) and Model F (also only briefly).
I really should try Matias switches and I'm interested in the "Razer" Kailh variants, particularly the orange one.
My (current) favourites are Model F and plate mounted 62g trampoline modded lubed and stickered ErgoClear in an aluminium case with SA profile keycaps, specifically the Penumbra set.
As you can see, it's a bit of a personal quest that doesn't really end and some switch types need to be tried for more than just a few minutes to get a proper feeling for. If there are other GeekHackers in your area it may be a good idea to see if they're willing to do a "trade loan" sort of thing if they have a board with switches you'd like to try. You lend them something they want to try and vice versa, so you can get a bit more time in than if you're in a store.
-
Thanks for the info on that.
I'm really keen to try Model F and Topre, although I will probably just settle down on the whole matter after I get used to what I have now.
As for the browns, it will definitely take some getting used to, and I will probably bottom out constantly as I have a very heavy-handed typing style. I want to try clears. The lack of availability is the biggest factor there.
'I would be very interested in the trade loan thing. It's unlikely there are any in my general vicinity, but possible.
-
There are a number of other "Aussies" on GH, but it's a big country...
-
Alps used ivory¹ for linear, tactile, and damped tactile. Really, though, we should use "ivory" at least for SKCMBB (damped) as that's the term used in the 1994 Alps catalogue. However, the three might not all be the same shade and we only have the name for the colour used for SKCMBB …
These aren’t all the same color. The 1992 or whenever dampened ones are more yellowish (I’d say cream is a pretty good name), while the mid-80s tactile ones are more off-white, much closer to the color of real ivory.