Print Page - [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.

geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: [esc] on Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:23:55

Title: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: [esc] on Tue, 10 February 2015, 13:23:55

Hi! After conducting a lot of reseach I have decided to build my own micro-keyboard from scratch and I'm looking for parts. I need keycaps, switches and a teensy, etc but it wil cost at least 80 usd just to get it shipped to Norway from pimpmykeyboard.com, mechanicalkeyboards.com and pjrc.com since I can't combine my shipping from multiple shops. Can somebody help me out somehow?

This is a rough mock-up of what I have in mind. It's based on colemak and inspired by vim, the JD40 and the typematrix. It's a pretty unique layout, I know, but it has a couple of really neat features, have a look:

[attachimg=1]
keyboard-layout-editor:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@_c=%23d9dae0&t=%232d3238&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%A9&=Q&=W&=F&=P&=G&=%E2%87%A5&=J&=L&=U&=Y&=%C3%86&=%E2%86%A9%3B&@=%E2%87%A7&=A&=R&=S&_c=%23a7d0db%3B&=T&_c=%23d9dae0%3B&=D&_c=%23b81b24%3B&=%E2%8C%AB&_c=%23d9dae0%3B&=H&_c=%23a7d0db%3B&=N&_c=%23d9dae0%3B&=I&=O&=P&=%E2%87%A7%3B&@=&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=%E2%8E%8B&=N&=M&=%C3%85&=%C3%98&=.&=%3B&@_x:1.25&w:1.25%3B&=CTRL&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=NUM&_w:1.25%3B&=NAV&_w:1.25%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=%E2%90%A3&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.25%3B&=WIN%3B&@_y:0.25%3B&=%E2%86%A9&_c=%23f4dc9c&a:5&f:5%3B&=+%0A%2F=&=6&=5&=4&=*&_c=%23d9dae0&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%87%A5&_a:5&f:5%3B&=%5E&=%2F&&=%2F%3B&=%25&=$&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%A9%3B&@=%E2%87%A7&_c=%23f4dc9c&a:5&f:5%3B&=0&=3&=2&=1&=.&_c=%23b81b24&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%8C%AB&_c=%23d9dae0&a:5&f:5%3B&=!&=,&=-&='&=%3F&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%87%A7%3B&@=&_c=%23f4dc9c&a:5&f:5%3B&=-&=9&=8&=7&=%2F%2F&_c=%23d9dae0&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%8E%8B&_a:5&f:5%3B&=%2F@%0A%23&=(%0A%3C&=)%0A%3E&=%5D%0A%7B&=%5D%0A%7D&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%3B&@_x:1.25&w:1.25%3B&=CTRL&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=NUM&_w:1.25%3B&=NAV&_w:1.25%3B&=NORM&_w:1.5%3B&=%E2%90%A3&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.25%3B&=WIN%3B&@_y:0.25%3B&=%E2%86%A9&_f:3%3B&=QUIT&=CLOSE&=FIND&=NTAB&=&=ALT-TAB&_a:5%3B&=&=%E2%86%90%20WORD&_c=%23f4791e&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%91&_c=%23d9dae0&f:3%3B&=%E2%86%92%20WORD&=&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%A9%3B&@=%E2%87%A7&_f:3%3B&=UNDO&=CUT&=COPY&=PASTE&=&_c=%23b81b24&f:4%3B&=%E2%8C%AB&_c=%23d9dae0&a:5&f:3%3B&=HOME&_c=%23f4791e&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%90&=%E2%86%93&=%E2%86%92&_c=%23d9dae0&f:3%3B&=END&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%87%A7%3B&@=&_f:3%3B&=ALL&=&=SAVE&=ALT-TAB&=&_f:4%3B&=%E2%8E%8B&_a:5&f:3%3B&=&_f:4%3B&=%E2%87%9F&=%E2%87%9E&_f:3%3B&=&=&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%3B&@_x:1.25&w:1.25%3B&=CTRL&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=NUM&_w:1.25%3B&=NAV&_w:1.25%3B&=NORM&_w:1.5%3B&=%E2%90%A3&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.25%3B&=WIN (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@_c=%23d9dae0&t=%232d3238&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%A9&=Q&=W&=F&=P&=G&=%E2%87%A5&=J&=L&=U&=Y&=%C3%86&=%E2%86%A9%3B&@=%E2%87%A7&=A&=R&=S&_c=%23a7d0db%3B&=T&_c=%23d9dae0%3B&=D&_c=%23b81b24%3B&=%E2%8C%AB&_c=%23d9dae0%3B&=H&_c=%23a7d0db%3B&=N&_c=%23d9dae0%3B&=I&=O&=P&=%E2%87%A7%3B&@=&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=%E2%8E%8B&=N&=M&=%C3%85&=%C3%98&=.&=%3B&@_x:1.25&w:1.25%3B&=CTRL&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=NUM&_w:1.25%3B&=NAV&_w:1.25%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=%E2%90%A3&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.25%3B&=WIN%3B&@_y:0.25%3B&=%E2%86%A9&_c=%23f4dc9c&a:5&f:5%3B&=+%0A%2F=&=6&=5&=4&=*&_c=%23d9dae0&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%87%A5&_a:5&f:5%3B&=%5E&=%2F&&=%2F%3B&=%25&=$&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%A9%3B&@=%E2%87%A7&_c=%23f4dc9c&a:5&f:5%3B&=0&=3&=2&=1&=.&_c=%23b81b24&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%8C%AB&_c=%23d9dae0&a:5&f:5%3B&=!&=,&=-&='&=%3F&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%87%A7%3B&@=&_c=%23f4dc9c&a:5&f:5%3B&=-&=9&=8&=7&=%2F%2F&_c=%23d9dae0&a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%8E%8B&_a:5&f:5%3B&=%2F@%0A%23&=(%0A%3C&=)%0A%3E&=%5D%0A%7B&=%5D%0A%7D&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%3B&@_x:1.25&w:1.25%3B&=CTRL&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=NUM&_w:1.25%3B&=NAV&_w:1.25%3B&=NORM&_w:1.5%3B&=%E2%90%A3&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.25%3B&=WIN%3B&@_y:0.25%3B&=%E2%86%A9&_f:3%3B&=QUIT&=CLOSE&=FIND&=NTAB&=&=ALT-TAB&_a:5%3B&=&=%E2%86%90%20WORD&_c=%23f4791e&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%91&_c=%23d9dae0&f:3%3B&=%E2%86%92%20WORD&=&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%A9%3B&@=%E2%87%A7&_f:3%3B&=UNDO&=CUT&=COPY&=PASTE&=&_c=%23b81b24&f:4%3B&=%E2%8C%AB&_c=%23d9dae0&a:5&f:3%3B&=HOME&_c=%23f4791e&f:4%3B&=%E2%86%90&=%E2%86%93&=%E2%86%92&_c=%23d9dae0&f:3%3B&=END&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%E2%87%A7%3B&@=&_f:3%3B&=ALL&=&=SAVE&=ALT-TAB&=&_f:4%3B&=%E2%8E%8B&_a:5&f:3%3B&=&_f:4%3B&=%E2%87%9F&=%E2%87%9E&_f:3%3B&=&=&_a:7&f:4%3B&=%3B&@_x:1.25&w:1.25%3B&=CTRL&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=NUM&_w:1.25%3B&=NAV&_w:1.25%3B&=NORM&_w:1.5%3B&=%E2%90%A3&_w:1.25%3B&=ALT&_w:1.25%3B&=WIN)

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: p3lim on Tue, 10 February 2015, 21:40:16

I ordered my Teensy from floris.cc (http://floris.cc/shop/en/teensy/952-teensy-3e.html), slightly higher cost for the actual product, but makes up for it in shipping fees.
As for switches, I bought a broken QuickFire TK and desoldered it, totaled me around $20 for 100+ switches + keycaps that were on it.
If this is not an option, I'd recommend buying it in bulk from 7bit (depending on your amount it could be cheaper): http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html

If you need a plate, I would recommend talking to the guys over at astero.no (http://astero.no), they gave me a great price on a single run.

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: joey on Wed, 11 February 2015, 02:58:26

Crazy layout!

But you can't be vim inspired and have arrow keys like that! :P

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: vvp on Wed, 11 February 2015, 03:17:47

TechKeys has free shipping if you buy for $50 or more.

http://techkeys.us/pages/faq

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 11 February 2015, 03:18:58

Another way to make the plate would be to modify a plate from a point-of-sale keyboard.
Cut off any extra rows and columns. Also cut off the partitions between some of the keys on the bottom row and glue some some sheet aluminium in the gaps. The snaps on Cherry MX switches are on the vertical, so the glued-in metal pieces would just keep the switches from moving sideways. The positions for Num and Space would be unmodified.

Myself I am not convinced that a matrix layout would be particularly ergonomic...
Otherwise, have you considered making the Shift keys 1×2 vertical keys as on Maltron?

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: p3lim on Wed, 11 February 2015, 03:34:16

Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 11 February 2015, 03:18:58

Myself I am not convinced that a matrix layout would be particularly ergonomic...

I agree on this, but a lot of people like these ortholinear keyboards: http://ortholinearkeyboards.com/.

Edit: Btw, if you don't really use the norwegian-specific keys a lot, consider using a Compose Key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key).
I went that route as I found ANSI QWERTY a lot more efficient for programming, but didn't want to dedicate entire keys for those few times I need em.

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: [esc] on Wed, 11 February 2015, 08:02:41

Quote from: p3lim on Tue, 10 February 2015, 21:40:16

I ordered my Teensy from floris.cc (http://floris.cc/shop/en/teensy/952-teensy-3e.html), slightly higher cost for the actual product, but makes up for it in shipping fees.
As for switches, I bought a broken QuickFire TK and desoldered it, totaled me around $20 for 100+ switches + keycaps that were on it.
If this is not an option, I'd recommend buying it in bulk from 7bit (depending on your amount it could be cheaper): http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/cherry-mx-taking-pre-orders-t2760.html

If you need a plate, I would recommend talking to the guys over at astero.no (http://astero.no), they gave me a great price on a single run.

Thanks for the tips, I'll definitely consider to use astero for the plate and case.

Quote from: joey on Wed, 11 February 2015, 02:58:26

Crazy layout!

But you can't be vim inspired and have arrow keys like that! :P

It is vim inspired in the sense that it the third layer has single key commands (like normal mode) and a navigation cluster on the home-row. HJKL seems to be more a historical thing than an ergonomic thing, so I went with the more ergonomic and familiar t-shaped arrow cluster.

Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 11 February 2015, 03:18:58

Myself I am not convinced that a matrix layout would be particularly ergonomic...
Otherwise, have you considered making the Shift keys 1�2 vertical keys as on Maltron?

In your opinion, is the normal staggered keyboard any more ergonomic than an ortholinear keyboard?

Quote from: p3lim on Wed, 11 February 2015, 03:34:16

Quote from: Findecanor on Wed, 11 February 2015, 03:18:58
Myself I am not convinced that a matrix layout would be particularly ergonomic...

I agree on this, but a lot of people like these ortholinear keyboards: http://ortholinearkeyboards.com/.

Edit: Btw, if you don't really use the norwegian-specific keys a lot, consider using a Compose Key (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key).
I went that route as I found ANSI QWERTY a lot more efficient for programming, but didn't want to dedicate entire keys for those few times I need em.

I typed on US-ANSI for more than a year before switching to "Colemak-ANSI" two months ago, and they're great for programming and writing english, but I find it quite annoying to have to press the option key on my mac every time I write ÆØÅ. The goal is to create a layout that is great for programming, english AND any scandinavian language. I tried to remap my laptop to my proposed layout, but not having comma on the main layer is extremely annoying! I'm trying to reduce the number of keys to the minimum (no more keys than I can reach from the home row) but putting a key on a second layer makes things a lot slower.

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: [esc] on Wed, 11 February 2015, 09:27:58

I changed a few things and even made a symetrical-stagger version. Although the dream is to cruise through the os with single-key commands just like in vim, that is not realistic at all. I've tried to make the layout more compatible with keyboard shortcuts in current software. Still just mockups. I'll definately be changing even more things as i build though.

[attachimg=2]

and the updated grid-version:

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 12 February 2015, 02:19:20

You haven't mentioned customs duty either which is quite a cost, too.

Can you get items from inside EU and not pay customs (like here in Finland) or do you still have to pay customs even from within EU? If you don't pay customs from EU you can order the Teensy from floris.cc, find a Cherry G80 board from ebay.de or Amazon.co.uk (or a second hand board locally) and then the only "difficult" part is keycaps.

For keycaps you should finalise the layout first and try to use at least standard sizes:
1x, 2x for number row,
1x, 1.5x for "Q" row,
1x, 1.75x, 2.25x for "A" row,
1x, 1.25x, 1.5x, 1.75x, 2.25x, 2.75x, 6.25x, 7x for "Z" row and bottom row

Unless you're okay with using a "flat" profile like DSA, in which case you can use any of the standard sizes on any row.

First off the next few paragraphs are my personal opinion and I'm sure there will be people who disagree. I do not mean to be critical of your layout designs, as I'm sure they are all at least a partial improvement in terms of efficiency over the normal horizontal stagger QWERTY layouts.

In terms of ergonomics, split and vertically staggered is best for the finger area, but that requires 2 plates and really changes the whole design paradigm. I'm not a fan of matrix or symmentric stagger layouts as I see very little advantage over "normal" horizontal stagger with the way I type (floating and moving the hands over the board) and the familiarity of the normal layout takes precedence for me, unless the ergonomics are vastly better.

IMHO, anything "between" the normal layout and a split vertical stagger board is a compromise ergonomically and not really worth it. My reasoning is that a layout that is somehow similar to the normal "block" will require retraining your normal typing muscle memory, whereas a design that's very different can be "separated" more easily, so you're learning a new set of typing muscle memories, so it shouldn't affect your normal typing as much during the training period.

Thumb buttons / split spacebar are a definite improvement, though, and well worth doing, since it gives your "other" thumb something to do and makes Fn layers much easier to access, while still being able to hit all the keys as you're used to (since the thumb was doing nothing on the normal layout). If you have a gap on the bottom row, try to put it between where your thumb can reach easily and where the pinkie can reach easily.

Title: Re: [Help Needed] Can someone help me ship my parts to Norway? 100$ shipping fees.
Post by: p3lim on Thu, 12 February 2015, 03:02:30

Quote from: Oobly on Thu, 12 February 2015, 02:19:20

You haven't mentioned customs duty either which is quite a cost, too.

Can you get items from inside EU and not pay customs (like here in Finland) or do you still have to pay customs even from within EU? If you don't pay customs from EU you can order the Teensy from floris.cc, find a Cherry G80 board from ebay.de or Amazon.co.uk (or a second hand board locally) and then the only "difficult" part is keycaps.

Welcome to Norway, where every import from anywhere outside of Norway with the price tag (incl shipping) above 350 NOK ($45 at the time of writing) is charged with a 25%+ import fee, plus a lot of extra costs for handling and paperwork by various import agencies. It used to be 200 NOK up until January this year >_>.

A few years ago I ordered a $300 power supply from Amazon and ended up paying over $200 for import/customs fees, handling etc. Thankfully these days I have a proxy for whenever I need to import big things.

The reason behind this is because Norway is not a part of EU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union).