... because my two crappy computers are dying faster than I can type this =(
I have an old Apple Extended keyboard II for my old Machintosh IICi that I always loved and only recently realized what mechanical switches were and that I had been using one for years! =D I always wondered why I like it so much. But I stopped using that computer 6 or so years ago. But I still have everything but the monitor and speakers.
Same, nice job. Real hardcore geekhackers should get it as a tattoo.
The AEKII uses cream colored ALPS switches, which use rubber dampers to lighten the sound. These switches are kind of rare and were only used in the AEKII and the SGI version of the AT101 board. Anyway.. you can actually get the AEKII to work on modern Macs (or PCs!) with the help of a Griffin iMate, which converts ADB to USB. Sadly these have gotten quite rare and only pop up on eBay every now and then.
For what project did you buy 210 rubber domes?
Both of my computers are about 8yrs old.
And things get updated about as frequently as elections. I dont even have USB 2.0!
Membranes, for all their ubiquity, are still very interesting to look at.
I have some pics of the ones I disassembled
I shave, personally, but then again, I'm not really a programmer.
I do stare at my crotch constantly, though. It tells me things.
Is one of those things "Wash me!"
I do agree it would be nice to have a few more artist type people on this forum.
I did art stuff but I've given up on it almost completely.
I'm more inspired to learn about web standards and web interaction, but I came from an art background, you can see it in my photos 8)
Bingo. Don't be too surprised if you pop 'em open and find faulty electrolytic capacitors on the board......
Maybe post some? Put your new knowledge to use. :-)
Speaking of web standards, what became of my suggestion for a more visible a:focus on this very site? At least in the light theme there doesn't seem to be anything implemented.
Pics or it didn't happen.
-huha
You know so much more than I could hope to comprehend regarding this stuff. Though I must admit I find it fascinating! Thanks for all the info, you have me rather busy searching and trying to learn stuff :)Well, I've been dealing with these things for a few years (actually part of th reason why I started electrical engineering was frustration about not understanding even basic electric circuitry, something handy when you're a radio nut). In return, my art skills are lousy - don't be surprised if you find ASCII art illustrations on my pages. Domesticating Inkscape is still a work in progress...
I have about 60 gigs worth of pics from gigs and projects that are just sitting in a bag of memory cards! eeek!60 gigs? :shocked: That's not too shabby.
Love the digital painting, got a link to anymore work?
Nice artwork! We needed some more non-programmers around here. Not that coders aren't exciting people or anything....
Well, I've been dealing with these things for a few years....
....In return, my art skills are lousy - don't be surprised if you find ASCII art illustrations on my pages. Domesticating Inkscape is still a work in progress...
60 gigs? :shocked: That's not too shabby.
BTW, you can also queue up quotes from multiple posts with that M-QUOTE button. Then press QUOTE on the last one, and they'll all be inserted.
Dude, love the avatar!!
Hey now, I'm an artistic type!! You've got one amongst your ranks, you just didn't know it!
I do the music thing btw.
If you have any questions about computers in general clickclack I am quite computer savvy and worked at a computer store(not best buy, a REAL computer store) until I got hired at a recording studio. I can pretty much troubleshoot anything, makes it more difficult if I can't see it, but meh I'll figure it out. What's your comp problem?
I made a load of ASCII art in a different lifetime. That is, before the rise of graphics on the Internet, in days we're building MUD and stuff. I think I had too much time on my hands.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3937)
Your first pic scared me. On my 26", it looked like a big pile of keyboards was about to crush down on me.
I guess there are worse ways to die!
The two boards on the lower right seem to be some Apples ones, but apparently no Extended IIs
Interesting.
The AST keyboard, 2nd column from the left, 4th from the bottom. What kind of switch does it have?
That's quite the collection. In the second batch, I spotted:quite possible, but again I would have to check
- 2 MS Naturals (the cleaner one is older) - OK, that was easy
- 1 Acer KB101(/A/B), the one on the left with the 4 LEDs; this should have either real Alps switches or clicky Acer lookalikes (if the keycaps come off reasonably easily by hand it's probably the latter, on Alps switches the caps tend to cling on for dear life so in some cases you might rather rip off the switch than the cap)
yup most of the Packard Bells feel pretty decent
- 2 Packard Bell (BTC inside) rubber domes like my old one, they're quite nice
I am not too sure there is a Cherry in the group, I don't think as of yet I have encountered a Cherry brown either
- 1 OEM Cherry MX11800 (does this one also have browns?)
Logitech seem to have the most variation in mountings, membranes, and rubber domes
- 1 craptacular Logitech Internet Navigator (yay)
I think Mitsumi. The really interesting thing about model M lookalikes is that even the insides look like a model M just with rubber domes. Some with curved metal plates and some with curved plastic ones
- Some Focus board I think? (the one with the yellowed keys)
- That Model M lookalike with L-shaped Enter could be a Mitsumi, Silitek or somesuch
Most of the IBM boards look and feel really nice (when compared to "most" other rubber domes
- I think these IBM rubber domes are some of the better ones.
Yup they are Apple Design keyboards. And the uppper left one is an Extended II. Which I now must have 15+ of by now!!!
- The two boards on the lower right seem to be some Apples ones, but apparently no Extended IIs, that one is at the top left
again would have to check
- The board with the very white keys and slightly yellowed case near the top right could be a mechanical... Monterey or something.
[/list]
What's the right Gateway board like? It looks interesting at least, and I spooted one on the 'bay recently.
think there are a couple Gateways in their. Most Gateways that are a normal layout feel decent enough (maybe better than most) but the ergonomic ones tend to feel like icky mush and poor travel
Oh, and it seems like you could use a big pack of those denture cleaning tabs (see recent thread). And a good bit of dishwashing liquid.
You truly have no idea :( I usually wipe em down first with alcohol and then after being disassembled I give them a soak in Comet. It does a great job and if you rinse them fully no real residue remains. But on my project the get a final alcohol wipe and the are gorgeous! Bran spankin new looking
The old Apple board is nice. Looks like it has old Alps switches (http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/jiku.htm). Too bad the numpad Enter is b0rked.
Yeah that thing reminds me of my early childhood in school.
You can also post stuff in the main Keyboard Pics thread if you want.
I might just do that, but need to focus atm :)
Those look like the Apple Design keyboard, a rubber dome.
The MX11800 was easy to spot btw - it's the one with the touchpad. It might only happen that it has blacks rather than browns (the Compaq was a custom order).
That mystery board would have to be from some kind of terminal, but then which one came with an AT-style L-shaped Enter?
The MX11800 was easy to spot btw - it's the one with the touchpad. It might only happen that it has blacks rather than browns (the Compaq was a custom order).
That mysterious BS 'board is from an IBM wheelwriter or some other after-Selectric typewriter.
That's a Cherry MX11900 (or G80-11900) with the touchpad: http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/Industrial/11900/index.htm - I think it's only been produced with black switches.
I think I can check this out tonight
As far as I know the MX11800 was the variant with brown switches and the trackball in place of the touchpad, no Win keys and was only sold under the Compaq label.
That mysterious BS 'board is from an IBM wheelwriter or some other after-Selectric typewriter.I guess I should have given the keys a closer look - line space, paper up, paper down...
Not like I'd be curious or anything, but how does one get into the position to receive keyboard donations?
very carefully :P heehee
EDIT: That Extended II with the funky keycaps was intended for video editing. We had a G83-6105 like that here recently, though that only said "Lift" on said key.
The old Apple board is nice. Looks like it has old Alps switches (http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/jiku.htm). Too bad the numpad Enter is b0rked.
Those are NMB switches. We call them 'space invaders' here. In Japan the nickname was 'praying mantis' or something like that.
These pics are starting to remind me of a certain movie....Show Image(http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/xan1.jpg)
Could be a power supply issue. They are notorious for causing random shutdowns. Other idea is to unplug everything. I had a Das Keyboard once that would do this.
could also be overheating. run it with the case open and fans pointed at it. use compressed air to clean out cooling components.
if it's a laptop, kick it to the curb and remember this next time you are tempted to own a laptop. own only desktops, ever.
Or get a laptop that actually built well (Not a Dell).
Both Dells I have owned have been great. Hardly anybody here at work has had any problems, either.
Odd, the Dell laptops I've seen have been overly fragile and troublesome...but that seems to be the case for any company.
i used to support student laptops. i've worked on hundreds, maybe thousands, of individual machines. i learned three things from this experience:
- i hate scissor switches and reduced layouts
- i can't use touchpads
- all laptops are of low build quality. A-L-L ALL.
Do Dells still come in two flavours - home use (crap parts, lousy support) and professional use (decent build and good support)?
Laptops are always a gamble. Not really user-servicable, and one failed component can put it beyond economic repair.
Laptops are always a gamble. Not really user-servicable, and one failed component can put it beyond economic repair.
[size=-3]aha so it was a cooling problem like i said[/size]
Hooray for computers working the way they should! This seems to almost never happen....Lol
- first is that medieval one with the metal housing (sex between an ALPS and a Cherry switch). I don't believe it is clicky, its kinda like black a cherry mixed with the white ALPS from a Apple extended keyboard II in feel.
So which one is the Blue Alps and what is the manufacturer and part number on the label?
The "medieval" switch is probably Mitsumi:
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/mousefan.htm
Comes up in the FCC database as:
Key Mouse Electronic Enterprise Co Ltd NO.3, WUGUNG 5TH RD., HSIN CHUANG CITY,TAIPEI COUNTY
Never heard of em. Wish they had a less generic name because I'm NOT going to save that one as an Ebay search.
Wow, there seem to be not one, but several model Fs. Do I spot an AT model F?
Also, I'd like to see switch pics of #10.
-huha
EDIT: Not quite the same but similar it does state that it is Alps though. Sorry about that. similar does not cut it I know.
Comes up in the FCC database as:
Key Mouse Electronic Enterprise Co Ltd NO.3, WUGUNG 5TH RD., HSIN CHUANG CITY,TAIPEI COUNTY
Never heard of em. Wish they had a less generic name because I'm NOT going to save that one as an Ebay search.
The number 34 (in the pic) model F is significantly lighter to the touch than the #35 model F, and feels wonderful to type on.
Comes up in the FCC database as:
Key Mouse Electronic Enterprise Co Ltd NO.3, WUGUNG 5TH RD., HSIN CHUANG CITY,TAIPEI COUNTY
Never heard of em. Wish they had a less generic name because I'm NOT going to save that one as an Ebay search.
- second is that odd blue one (ALPS?) that is just friggin heaven to type on!
its Girlfriend recomended! haahaaShow Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4034&stc=1&d=1251235736)
I have two model F's from what I can tell, #'s 35 and 34 in the pic.
I dont know what AT is. If it has to do with the cord, both cords are cut and both have a thick black stub of a cord left hanging out.
The number 34 (in the pic) model F is significantly lighter to the touch than the #35 model F, and feels wonderful to type on. I even did a "ripometer" on them and on average one is 10-20g lighter than the other one!
If you go to page 4 in this thread you will see a pic of number 10.
enjoy :)
I have two model F's from what I can tell, #'s 35 and 34 in the pic.
I dont know what AT is. If it has to do with the cord, both cords are cut and both have a thick black stub of a cord left hanging out.
The number 34 (in the pic) model F is significantly lighter to the touch than the #35 model F, and feels wonderful to type on. I even did a "ripometer" on them and on average one is 10-20g lighter than the other one!
If you go to page 4 in this thread you will see a pic of number 10.
enjoy :)
You really need to get a working cable for the F.
By the way, when referencing, use post number instead of page. The page a certain post is on depends on the number of posts per page, which can be changed quite easily in the preferences.
-huha
#34 is a Model F XT, you'll need a signal converter to use it with a modern PC.
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/11066
Bummer cuz that one is truly wonderful to type on! The board is probably dead for all I know though.
#35 is AT, so you just need a very cheap AT->PS/2 adapter...once you've found a working cable :)
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/9934
I'm pretty sure that's not an Alps switch. It could be made by KPT, ages ago lowpoly posted a review of a board with switches that looked similar to that one:Show Image(http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:IQWqxxwmpUMzpM:http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3265/pic005gm0.jpg)
That's a rather big gap between them, although the ripometer method isnt completely accurate with BS's - they tend to give different results everytime you try them.
It seemed pretty accurate to me though. Within reason of course. The differences seemed to be between keys on the same board. An example would be the "A" key verses the "K" key. They are different but consistently. When I just to the other board similar differences between keys were noted but were consistent as well.
The AT (the one with lock lights), as has been pointed out, is compatible with modern PCs. You could probably make a cable for it using the cable from another keyboard like an AT101W. I'm not entirely sure what the pin-out for the controller is though.
You really need to get a working cable for the F.
By the way, when referencing, use post number instead of page. The page a certain post is on depends on the number of posts per page, which can be changed quite easily in the preferences.
oh, thanks for that! Sorry :S I will do that in the future :)
-huha
His XT one is missing it too.
As I said though, should be easy enough to make one from the cable of just about any other keyboard, as long as you can figure out the pinout on the Berg connector on the keyboard's controller board.
Usually, the wires are colour coded to facilitate such tasks.
Even if they aren't, you can't really do wrong. GND should be fairly self-explanatory, as is VCC. Then you'll just need to figure out where each of the two data lines goes, but if you mess up, the keyboard will just not work, so you can swap the data lines and try again.
Many are color coded but they still dont seem to match up. Either they are different colors, more wires or slightly different colors coming from different places. I would realy like to experiment but I really am spooked about the idea of damaging anything. Also my computer is dying at the moment and messing with it seems a bit counter productive, and potentially very upsetting :(
-huha
And bummer again because that one isn't really all that much fun to type on.
I have tried that, I even bought some cords but the colors dont match up and many keyboards have way more wires than others. I kid you not :S
Sell it in the marketplace, there's a pretty good demand for those AT boards, although if there's a huge typing difference, there is a possibility that there is something wrong with it, or it's horribly worn out. When you say it's not fun to type on, is there any difference to the XT model's feel other than just resistance?
The XTs are meant to be pretty much the same, but of a sturdier standard of construction, the actual keyswitch is identical across all models of Model F and Model C.
Sell it in the marketplace, there's a pretty good demand for those AT boards, although if there's a huge typing difference, there is a possibility that there is something wrong with it, or it's horribly worn out. When you say it's not fun to type on, is there any difference to the XT model's feel other than just resistance? If it's a case that the springs are worn out, you could do a spring swap. Much easier than wiring up an XT conversion adaptor.
I definitely find my Model F much more enjoyable to type on than my Model M. Can't say for the XT models though.
The XTs are meant to be pretty much the same, but of a sturdier standard of construction, the actual keyswitch is identical across all models of Model F and Model C.
That is very odd. Both AT and XT should have seperate housings and easily removable spring/hammers. See both -
Here. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5492)
and
Here. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6580)
And there's definitely something up with the springs on your AT model, you're the only person around here who has one that is noticably different to an XT model AND is stiffer than the Model M.
Odd indeed, I will have to check again later to see if those were really the differences and if there are anymore (or at all). Thanks for the links, that should help with comparisons when I crack em back open :)
Space Invaders!!!! AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4093&stc=1&d=1251442828)
heeeheee, I love this :)
Lollll that's awesome!
I love this thread BTW! So interesting, you have such a great opportunity to be able to tear apart all these various and sundry keyboards!
The way that bag is sagging it has to be really loaded. So for my first guess 5k-6k
My pick: 1001 Bob!
Tell us what we've Won!
Uh oh. MsKeyboard knows more than I do what a garbage bag full of keys contains. I think I voted way.... too high.
And why is this dude named after a dead programming language?
As it happens, I have a small pile of keys on my desk, from preparations to clean a keyboard I recently bought. This has helped me make an estimate; I'm going to say 19,650 keys.
Hoax. Dirty laundry.
xyzzy- ? did you mean perhaps 34,567 ? heehee not that I didn't like 3456,7!
I meant 3456,7 (*). I'm pretty sure there's a broken key.
(*) maybe it's 3456.7 in the US? In Europe we use the , as decimal separator.
Something about that bulge just don't look right.
I meant 3456,7 (*). I'm pretty sure there's a broken key.
Funny thing... At that point I had not broken one yet, however my gf ended up helping me that night and YUP! And I would say that ".7" is a good estimation of what was left of it. And it was the only one broken!
(*) maybe it's 3456.7 in the US? In Europe we use the , as decimal separator.
I love nice numbers, so I'd say 8192.
When will you give us the solution, by the way?
-huha
I'm going to say that you're stringing us along, as there aren't any keycaps.
Hoax. Dirty laundry.
I'm gonna have to go a little low and say 2,100.
I love nice numbers, so I'd say 8192.
yeah, thats a cute number, I have no idea as to why it would be "nice" though. :)
When will you give us the solution, by the way?-huha
Why would he want to do that. He is having too much fun stringing us all along.
I think webwit's is the most probable
So this all just means that the number in my sig grew again :)
He should get to 1000.
Like my favorite football player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_CtDbZJHpo) ever (even though I grew up seeing Cruyff play).
O Rei do Teclado!
Man you get to have all the fun.... Why not send us a few and we will help taking them apart. I promise I will send them back...
Do you need a certain number of 'boards?
He should get to 1000.
He has to get
OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lol
I'll guess 8585.
By the way... did you count them yourself yet, clickclack?^^
I'll throw in a guess. 6250
2763!
A regular keyboard has about 104 keys. If you'll look at the small pile of 104 keys...
I say 7777
By the way... did you count them yourself yet, clickclack?^^
That's why the deadline is Oct. 1st. :-)
I need to be close to a certain number for one project, and for the other projects the numbers have yet to be determined
Haahaaa :)
It's that long for two reasons-
first, I will hopefully have a better computer situation by that time. (that matters because this is a real pain to do with a computer that is crappin out every 2 seconds). Second I wanted to give ample time for people to guess, and that makes it more fun. (well...at least for me anyways :)
1 key, bob
I've been undermined! I knew that guess should have been a thousand less.
Is one the "How many keyboards can be piled on top of David Blaine before he is crushed" project? Where do I send mine to help out? :lol:
13,337,
I just think it is going to take this long because he is still stuffing more keys in that bag so doesn't really know how many will end up in it yet.
That makes a bit more sense than what I was initially thinking, which was they must belong to a gym.... ;)
Here is that missing pic I was looking for from that batch that was mostly mac related, and still in the boxes. (first keyboard pic in this thread) Its a pretty cool mix!Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3972&stc=1&d=1250979536)
I know it's late to ask, but what's the second from the bottom row, first column? its layout intrigues me.
I know it's late to ask, but what's the second from the bottom row, first column? its layout intrigues me.
I found some really nice double shot keycaps on this one board in my adventures in finding Wellington some clicky leafs.
yummy, lots of color :)
I wanna eat em!
It's a Sun Type 4 keyboard.
I love the key caps on my Northgate. They are the favorite of all my keyboards.
"I think they have a cream for that.jpg" - :biggrin1:
Bump da Bump
:)
Don't forget about the contest people!
Deadline October 1st :)
did I guess already? If I havent, my guess is 5000 keys.
Second one could be blue SMKs? Never seen the first one.
Hey, clickclack, it's Oct. 1st.
Well, here at least.
:first:
Go look for more keys first. I look high.
Go look for more keys first. I look high.
Don't worry he has been stuffing that bag all month so now I'm very low.
Here be my answer: lots.
I am waiting until 12:01am PSTYou mean PDT, right?
My guess: 5839.
You mean PDT, right?
I'll throw in a guess. 6250
What, this challenge WAS rigged?!? Boo hiss!
*Grabs pitchfork and goes on a raid for clickclack's model F keyboards*
I look high.
I just based my guess on the number of keys in a bag containing several keyboards worth of keys when I was doing a batch cleaning a while back,
I look high.
Hey, I want a recount.
So clickclack, how many of those 300+ keyboards could use a retr0bright treatment?
Irradiation however severe could not rid the discoloring of some of the boards I have!
=P
Darth finds your lack of faith in retr0bright disturbing.
It even works on the Dark Side...
So what did I win from the guess the keys contest?
An awesome custom sculpted keycap courtesy of clickclack :hail:
Looks great on my Filco :thumb:
The cap itself is quite high quality, nicely textured plastic unlike the cheapo plastic of the red Filco key that came with the board.
This will probably find its way onto my n52 when I get around to attempting Ripster's mod.
Thanks a bunch clickclack!
Now that is nice. Beats those KBDmania candy colored jobs by a mile.
ART!
I shoulda guessed lower.
I think we have a winner in the Battle Of The Esc Keys (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6294).
Great price, clickclack.
Holy carp! I demand a recount. :lol:
That's awesome.
Might be even more appropriate for the evil CapsLock key - it could have glowing eyes.
Oh, the F and J key nub possibilities. The nubile, nubby, nubbly, nubs are waiting for a new way to express themselves!
That sounds like an interesting project to embark upon.
I believe I am able to manufacture these things (custum key sculpts "skull caps") for a variety of keys cap types. BS (key cap single and dual piece) Cherry, ALPS, rubber dome (more of a pain since there are so many), Topre (if I can get a key cap for their boards as a reference)....
Clikclak, what keyboard is in those pics?
EDIT: Is that a Scorpius M10?
Nice red. I hear he pricks his finger and colors it with blood.
When he dies part of his soul will be in the keyboard. I think Harry Potter fans call it a Horcrux.
I have some pics of the "Skull Caps" finally. These are pics of the same one I sent out as the prize. :)
I have a bunch more concepts and ideas but I am still testing many of them, so in the mean time I am just gathering more of this particular Skull Caps prototype...
WANT...
Great job clickclack!
That's a great concept. One that makes a millionaire if you do it like the Panic key guy..
Hire Balinese children to manufacture in quantity. Key to making money here.
What they show the tourists....
What is in the villages....