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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: falkentyne on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:00:24

Title: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: falkentyne on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:00:24
I know you can buy them (at least I think you can?  Any links for cherry stepped caps locks?) but is there a reason almost every keyboard has a full length caps lock that can be accidentally pressed with "A"?

I just noticed my Logitech G910 has an indented caps lock like the old IBM keyboards do.  I didn't even NOTICE this for two months!  Until just NOW (when I decided to randomly make this topic).
(the G710+ has a full length caps lock)
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:02:19
As I mentioned in your original thread, cherry stepped caps locks are left stemmed instead of the standard centre stem.
If you are going to buy one of these, make sure that your board is compatible with left stemmed caps locks.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: falkentyne on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:13:49
ah, thank you.
Yeah I saw the reply.  I just had posted it in the wrong forum section.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: chyros on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:41:20
Maybe they don't because they suck? :p

I really dislike stepped Caps Lock keys. If you've got Beep on, hitting Caps Lock really isn't that much of a problem :/ .
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: ideus on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:45:20
The caps lock location is better use for control or function keys with full touch tops.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:46:50
Quote from: ideus on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:45:20
The caps lock location is better use for control or function keys with full touch tops.

I doubt this is the main reason why there are few stepped caps locks, however this is definitely a valid point.
The fact that we have switched over to full touch caps locks keys allows us to use it for other more frequently used functions.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:58:58
Last I knew signature plastics has a mold for center stem stepped capslock.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: fknraiden on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:09:48
I had this 1800 layout dolch set I took and re stemmed the stepped caps lock to fit center stemmed switches. Decent amount of work but ended up being worth it.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:50:24
Quote from: chyros on Thu, 19 February 2015, 17:41:20
Maybe they don't because they suck?

You have it backwards.

I love stepped keys and wish I could get more of them. I have 3 pairs of stepped "Alt" keys for my IBMs but only 1 pair of stepped "Control"s. Also love my stepped "Tab"

Non-stepped keys are what suck, and so they are a good match for sucky modern keyboards.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:01:17
Because stepped caps are beautiful and pure, and like most things in this world that are beautiful they are forgotten in time.

We the few, and the brave, lovers of aesthetic beauty must be prophets of the righteous path.


The stepped cap is a reminder that there are realms above our own, that the board we use actually partakes in the perfect form of the keyboard that it outside our world and in a platonic space.
Many who think the material world does not matter choose to blind themselves to this, and they turn away from the stepped cap and into a life of pain and angst toiling away in the dark merely because they have shunned the light.

Do not waste your life using none stepped caps. Its not to late
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: Sygaldry on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:15:19
Honestly, as much as I love the classic feel of having a stepped CapsLock. I prefer the feel of a full touch CapsLock since I have ALL of my keyboards remapped to have it as Control, and with how often I use the Control key, the stepped key just doesn't work as well...
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: gabbo01 on Thu, 19 February 2015, 19:48:52
They look hideous and there isn't any difference in performance in the years that i've used both.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: falkentyne on Thu, 19 February 2015, 20:01:13
When I first had a non stepped caps lock key, I made a lot of typos accidentally pressing caps lock when pressing A.  I think this was on a Microsoft sidewinder X4.  It was so hard for me to use A and even type/game without accidents....
I did have a Logitech internet keyboard previously (But I wanted a key with 11+ key rollover for gaming, which the X4 had), and I don't remember that NOT having a stepped caps lock.
Also the old ps/2 Compaq keyboard I still have hooked up to a Pentium 3 has a stepped caps lock, so I was very used to it.  It was very annoying and hard to avoid activating caps on the sidewinder x4.

For some reason, when I got my first true mech kb-the Logitech G710+, I don't remember having that problem with caps lock even though that was full size.  Nor do I have that problem with my ducky 3/4/fire editions, either.  But now that I noticed my g910 has the stepped caps, now I realize how much I miss having one.....
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:23:37
Quote from: fohat.digs on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:50:24
I love stepped keys and wish I could get more of them. I have 3 pairs of stepped "Alt" keys for my IBMs but only 1 pair of stepped "Control"s. Also love my stepped "Tab". Non-stepped keys are what suck, and so they are a good match for sucky modern keyboards.
You’re joking right?

Anyway, I think those “hat-shaped” keys basically originated with the IBM XT. Basically, they were too cheap/lazy to figure out how to add stabilizers on any key except the spacebar, and so they made sure the pressable area of each key was only 1x1 units in size. Before that various keycaps on other keyboards had slight steps, like the shift keys and bottom row keys on beam spring boards, but nothing quite like the XT’s stepped keys.

Everyone ridiculed IBM for the stupid hat keycaps, and there was even a company selling little inserts to “fix” the hat caps. See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65096.0
(http://i.imgur.com/Xgq4Ji5.png)

With the AT, they fixed it on the tab, shift, enter, zero, and plus keys, by expanding the key tops and adding stabilizers to some keys. I have no idea why they continued to using the hat shaped keys for caps lock and alt, or introduced the stepped ctrl key. IBM did all kinds of weird ****, and it’s not our place to question all their crazy decisions.

* * *

More generally, everything about the standard keyboard layout is broken and stupid, but putting caps lock to the left of the A key has to be one of the worst ever keyboard layout decisions. Caps lock is a terrible key and shouldn’t be on the keyboard at all. To give it such prime real estate is a crime.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 20 February 2015, 02:53:33
Just use a 1x cap.  ;)
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: chyros on Fri, 20 February 2015, 03:05:44
Quote from: jacobolus on Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:23:37
Everyone ridiculed IBM for the stupid hat keycaps, and there was even a company selling little inserts to “fix” the hat caps. See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65096.0
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Xgq4Ji5.png)

I'd buy that xD .
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 20 February 2015, 06:12:40
Leopold's PBT keycap sets come with two Caps Lock keycaps: one stepped and one full-size with LED window. Both are centre-stemmed.
The Caps Lock keycap has a 1.5 surface area (like Tab) instead of 1.25, but is still otherwise Cherry-profile.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 20 February 2015, 18:35:00
Of course, jacobolus is one of those dozen or so people that I cannot quote:

You’re joking right?

The IBM XT is a charactiture of goofball keycaps.

Stepped keys are good in their place, and they have their place.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: tankLancer on Sat, 09 November 2024, 21:48:45
Quote from: jacobolus on Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:23:37
Quote from: fohat.digs on Thu, 19 February 2015, 18:50:24
I love stepped keys and wish I could get more of them. I have 3 pairs of stepped "Alt" keys for my IBMs but only 1 pair of stepped "Control"s. Also love my stepped "Tab". Non-stepped keys are what suck, and so they are a good match for sucky modern keyboards.
You’re joking right?

Anyway, I think those “hat-shaped” keys basically originated with the IBM XT. Basically, they were too cheap/lazy to figure out how to add stabilizers on any key except the spacebar, and so they made sure the pressable area of each key was only 1x1 units in size. Before that various keycaps on other keyboards had slight steps, like the shift keys and bottom row keys on beam spring boards, but nothing quite like the XT’s stepped keys.

Everyone ridiculed IBM for the stupid hat keycaps, and there was even a company selling little inserts to “fix” the hat caps. See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65096.0
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Xgq4Ji5.png)


With the AT, they fixed it on the tab, shift, enter, zero, and plus keys, by expanding the key tops and adding stabilizers to some keys. I have no idea why they continued to using the hat shaped keys for caps lock and alt, or introduced the stepped ctrl key. IBM did all kinds of weird ****, and it’s not our place to question all their crazy decisions.

* * *

More generally, everything about the standard keyboard layout is broken and stupid, but putting caps lock to the left of the A key has to be one of the worst ever keyboard layout decisions. Caps lock is a terrible key and shouldn’t be on the keyboard at all. To give it such prime real estate is a crime.

it's great to know the origin of these stepped keys. While it is a cost reduction implementation first. Having viewed the entire thread, I started to realize the meaning of the stepped capsLock key and how to make it more effective used.
Title: Re: Why don't modern keyboards come with "Stepped" caps lock keys?
Post by: LavenderB on Sun, 10 November 2024, 05:48:55
Quote from: jacobolus on Thu, 19 February 2015, 21:23:37
Anyway, I think those “hat-shaped” keys basically originated with the IBM XT.
Selectrics already had them on the shift keys