hopefully americans will learn how to use them at some point
hopefully americans will learn how to use them at some point
People have a very hard time with them here. They actually made one "two-way" close to where I live because people couldn't or wouldn't go in one direction. Since it's so lightly traveled it works out okay in this situation.
We have this in Melbourne:
(Attachment Link)
Actually I used to live really close to this, and you do get used to it when you go around it every week.
6 lanes in either direction and the speed limit is 45? wtf lol
6 lanes in either direction and the speed limit is 45? wtf lol
3 lanes each direction for 6 lanes total.
6 lanes in either direction and the speed limit is 45? wtf lol
3 lanes each direction for 6 lanes total.
Still tho, wtf 45 is such a random number lol and hella slow!
6 lanes in either direction and the speed limit is 45? wtf lol
3 lanes each direction for 6 lanes total.
Still tho, wtf 45 is such a random number lol and hella slow!
45 mph through a town is very standard. Not through the downtown portion (that would be 25 mph), but through the outskirts of town where there are crossroads and neighborhoods.
What would be an intermediate speed limit in Britain? O.o Surely you don't go 60-70 mph everywhere. :P
6 lanes in either direction and the speed limit is 45? wtf lol
3 lanes each direction for 6 lanes total.
Still tho, wtf 45 is such a random number lol and hella slow!
45 mph through a town is very standard. Not through the downtown portion (that would be 25 mph), but through the outskirts of town where there are crossroads and neighborhoods.
What would be an intermediate speed limit in Britain? O.o Surely you don't go 60-70 mph everywhere. :P
Towns usually 30 or 40, residential areas 30, dual carriageways 50-60 (depending on the area) and motorways 70. Back lanes are national limit (which is 60 on single carriageway roads).
With America being so big, I can't imagin driving at such slow speeds, would drive me mad haha :P
Some continental states cap out at 65... that would be miserable.
In the south-eastern US I find that many people expect you to go ~5mph above the speed limit most of the time.
In the south-eastern US I find that many people expect you to go ~5mph above the speed limit most of the time.
I live in Marietta, and I had a Cobb County cop tell me flat-out that it was an unwritten rule that you would not get a speeding ticket in Georgia at anything up to 9 miles per hour over the speed limit, unless there were other conditions such as a school zone.
PS - you are obviously not a native. Southeastern is one word, capitalized, no hyphen
EDIT 2: Here's a question for people: Do you actually go the speed limit? In the south-eastern US I find that many people expect you to go ~5mph above the speed limit most of the time.
I have also heard the same thing about the speed limits in Georgia, I typically run 5-10mph over whatever the speed limit is on interstates.
When I drive through Atlanta I notice the 55mph signs are more of a recommendation since most people are driving 80mph+
I've also heard in Georgia that state troopers tend to give tickets to out of state vehicles more than instate ones.
EDIT 2: Here's a question for people: Do you actually go the speed limit? In the south-eastern US I find that many people expect you to go ~5mph above the speed limit most of the time.
Same as fohat, it's an unwritten rule to go a bit over the speed limit. I typically go ~7mph over, just to be safe. The extra few mph isn't worth hundreds of dollars to me, though I could probably get away with 9-10mph over.
I usually go about 33 in a 30, 45 in a 40, and about 85 in a 70 :$
I hate roundabouts. They’re awful for pedestrians, and often also for cyclists.
What the **** are you doing walking around a round about??? There is no pedestrian right of way.. what the **** lol... cross the road, not the round about...
Though for bikes it's pretty easy, you treat it like you would a car, not much you have to think about...
In the south-eastern US I find that many people expect you to go ~5mph above the speed limit most of the time.
PS - you are obviously not a native. Southeastern is one word, capitalized, no hyphen
What the **** are you doing walking around a round about??? There is no pedestrian right of way.. what the **** lol... cross the road, not the round about...
Though for bikes it's pretty easy, you treat it like you would a car, not much you have to think about...
Nonono, I was referring to crossing at the crosswalk. And if you wanted to cross two entrances, you are effectively walking around the roundabout. Outside it. But around it. On the outside.
People are having a hard enough time paying attention to traffic flow and entering the roundabout at the proper time, so I would not trust them to pay attention to a pedestrian entering the crosswalk from the right (left in Britain) and avoid hitting them.
With a stop sign there is a very clear right of way for pedestrians (if you get there before the car you walk across), but it's less clear to me with a roundabout.
If US drivers can't handle a roundabout and the odd pedestrian then they shouldn't be driving anyway
If it was a X-roads with only traffic lights or stop signs, would you walk across the Middle of the junction?
Living in the UK I've been around roundabouts my entire life, never before have I had an issue crossing them at the point where the road joins the roundabout. Ever.
Also roundabouts arnt random in anyway and are entirely predictable....
Living in the UK I've been around roundabouts my entire life, never before have I had an issue crossing them at the point where the road joins the roundabout. Ever.I've been trying to wrap my head around this too, but i think the idea is in the UK we sit the pedestrian crossing abit back from the roundabout, giving us plenty on time to cross?
Also roundabouts arnt random in anyway and are entirely predictable....
Living in the UK I've been around roundabouts my entire life, never before have I had an issue crossing them at the point where the road joins the roundabout. Ever.
Also roundabouts arnt random in anyway and are entirely predictable....
My point was that since they are so new here, drivers and pedestrians are all relatively inexperienced at it. And I stated it as more of a fear than anything else. I wouldn't feel comfortable crossing one on foot, knowing the aptitude of those in the cars. Perhaps it's an unfounded fear; it's not a statistic, it's my personal feeling on the matter - it could very well be perfectly safe.
Living in the UK I've been around roundabouts my entire life, never before have I had an issue crossing them at the point where the road joins the roundabout. Ever.I've been trying to wrap my head around this too, but i think the idea is in the UK we sit the pedestrian crossing abit back from the roundabout, giving us plenty on time to cross?
Also roundabouts arnt random in anyway and are entirely predictable....
And then get splattered by the idiot that turns right at a red light. US drivers generally lack the spatial awareness that you need for driving in busy city traffic or certain roundabouts in my experience .If US drivers can't handle a roundabout and the odd pedestrian then they shouldn't be driving anywayIn a conventional perpendicular intersection, you can look each way, wait for your turn, and make your way across.
If it was a X-roads with only traffic lights or stop signs, would you walk across the Middle of the junction?
This is true for vehicles and pedestrians alike.
With cars coming and going at random times in random directions, you are looking around and moving around every which way for several seconds, or more, weaving your path into everyone else's, and any interruption of that complex flow pattern is problematic.
There is no place for a slow-moving walker in that, although a cyclist has a reasonable chance.
Living in the UK I've been around roundabouts my entire life, never before have I had an issue crossing them at the point where the road joins the roundabout. Ever.
Also roundabouts arnt random in anyway and are entirely predictable....
My point was that since they are so new here, drivers and pedestrians are all relatively inexperienced at it. And I stated it as more of a fear than anything else. I wouldn't feel comfortable crossing one on foot, knowing the aptitude of those in the cars. Perhaps it's an unfounded fear; it's not a statistic, it's my personal feeling on the matter - it could very well be perfectly safe.
Yeah I'm used to them, but this whole notion of 'fear' is pretty insane, given that the whole of Europe has managed with them for years... It's not something you need lots of experiance with, you learn what the rules are and that's kind of it.
Even as a learner driver roundabouts where pretty straight forward, even ones with three to four lanes...
Yeah but Ive lived around a lot where you cross the road pretty much at the roundabout (without a pelican or zebra crossing or what have you) and it was never a problem, you just look both ways and cross when it's clear lol
And then get splattered by the idiot that turns right at a red light. US drivers generally lack the spatial awareness that you need for driving in busy city traffic or certain roundabouts in my experience .
Never have I had more close calls with people that just drove onto the road without looking than in the US. And I've driven through most of Europe and even through Taipei in rush hour.
If US drivers can't handle a roundabout and the odd pedestrian then they shouldn't be driving anyway
If it was a X-roads with only traffic lights or stop signs, would you walk across the Middle of the junction?
In a conventional perpendicular intersection, you can look each way, wait for your turn, and make your way across.
This is true for vehicles and pedestrians alike.
With cars coming and going at random times in random directions, you are looking around and moving around every which way for several seconds, or more, weaving your path into everyone else's, and any interruption of that complex flow pattern is problematic.
There is no place for a slow-moving walker in that, although a cyclist has a reasonable chance.
And then get splattered by the idiot that turns right at a red light. US drivers generally lack the spatial awareness that you need for driving in busy city traffic or certain roundabouts in my experience .If US drivers can't handle a roundabout and the odd pedestrian then they shouldn't be driving anywayIn a conventional perpendicular intersection, you can look each way, wait for your turn, and make your way across.
If it was a X-roads with only traffic lights or stop signs, would you walk across the Middle of the junction?
This is true for vehicles and pedestrians alike.
With cars coming and going at random times in random directions, you are looking around and moving around every which way for several seconds, or more, weaving your path into everyone else's, and any interruption of that complex flow pattern is problematic.
There is no place for a slow-moving walker in that, although a cyclist has a reasonable chance.
Never have I had more close calls with people that just drove onto the road without looking than in the US. And I've driven through most of Europe and even through Taipei in rush hour.
These pictures are intended to be indictments of the roundabouts right? Those three are all awful. They take up like 10x more space than any regular intersection.Show Image(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/24989317.jpg)
Or another one:Show Image(http://bin.snmmd.nl/m/m1dycgpwhg6v.jpg)
And they are great for cyclists too:Show Image(http://www.hilversumbeterbereikbaar.nl/files/Rotonde%20MBB%20Media%20Paruk%20630px.jpg)
Living in the UK I've been around roundabouts my entire life, never before have I had an issue crossing them at the point where the road joins the roundabout. Ever. Also roundabouts arnt random in anyway and are entirely predictable....
Yeah but Ive lived around a lot where you cross the road pretty much at the roundabout (without a pelican or zebra crossing or what have you) and it was never a problem, you just look both ways and cross when it's clear lol
Like I said Hoff I've never driven in the US
I can't quote you Jacobolus becasue it wont load for some reason, but I really don't understand the notion of how roundabouts are difficult to deal with as a pedestrian, if anything, they are safer as drivers have to (regardless of right of way) slow on there approach simply to make it round the thing. So I drew a diagram of how you would cross the furthest points of a roundabout;Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/KLPOGoO.jpg)
It's really not difficult, or hard.
About if they are better or worse than a crossing, in my own personal experience, a crossing is FAR more dangerous. If someone cuts across a crossing without looking and crashes into someone, that's a much bigger crash than if someone pulls out on you at a roundabout without looking. The angle on a roundabout collision is a lot safer as your almost going to be either alongside or be hit from the front or the back, which is the furthest away from the people in either car. The speeds will also be alot lower and becasue of the impact angle the rate at which either car slows will be alot less than say a T bone impact at a crossing.
But if there is a car coming you don't cross?
Also if it's super busy the traffic would be slow and crossing would be easy and if it's super quiet 99% of the time you can probbaly see across the whole thing and see its quiet and cross with ease lol
But if there is a car coming you don't cross?
So if there is a car inside the roundabout I should not walk across the crosswalk? Looks like I'll be waiting all day!Also if it's super busy the traffic would be slow and crossing would be easy and if it's super quiet 99% of the time you can probbaly see across the whole thing and see its quiet and cross with ease lol
If I crossed every time there was slow traffic, I would be dead years ago. :)) And probably deaf from all the honking.
And once again, duh, if there are no cars you would just cross...that's obviously not the situation in question...
How many times has this been an issue for you?
It's very unclear as to when the pedestrians have the right of way; I would not want to walk through/around one.
How many times has this been an issue for you?
Zero. I never said it was... :confused: I said that I wouldn't want to walk around one, and then you (basically) called me an idiot. :thumb:It's very unclear as to when the pedestrians have the right of way; I would not want to walk through/around one.
Bad driving isn't anything that has any relevance here either lol as bad driving would be bad on anything, roundabout, cross road etc
I didn't mean to do that (hence my pm :P), just seems a bit incredulous that roundabouts would be so dangerous to the people of America and yet they work perfectly fine and have done for decades in Europe,I don’t think they’re especially dangerous (well, some of them are actually quite bad for cyclists, but otherwise...). I just think they’re a pain in the ass, and make pedestrians walk a long way out of the way and potentially wait a long time. Roundabouts aren’t the disease, they’re just a symptom, and traffic lights are just as bad (with slightly different trade-offs made). The real root problem is car-centric planning/development/zoning, too much free parking, ****ty transit, no care for pedestrians or cyclists, etc. Britain is in this respect somewhat better than the US, because there has been less “green-field” development in the past 50–60 years. It’s still worse than many other countries though. As with many things, Britain seems to aspire to being a sort of USA-lite.
Bad driving isn't anything that has any relevance here either lol as bad driving would be bad on anything, roundabout, cross road etc
Right. But remember, many of these people have never used a roundabout until ~5 years ago (I learned about them in driver's ed but didn't encounter one while driving until many years later). I remember driving with my ex-girlfriend's mom and she freaked out as we approached a roundabout. She had no idea what to do, and I would not have felt comfortable trying to cross the street anywhere near her.
Of course that's just one person who wasn't experienced, but there are many more out there and I still see people not following proper etiquette in roundabouts.
I don't disagree with you; in a perfect world, roundabouts might be safer. But this is not a perfect world, and I'm not sure why you can't see that. I don't care how long you've driven in Europe or whatever you want to talk about, because we're not talking about Europe.
Saint Louis is a nightmare beyond comprehension for most people, driving wise..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/
Drive along an approximately 10-mile stretch along the east-west Route 115 (also known as the Natural Bridge Road), and you’ll cross through sixteen different municipalities. At some points along the route, you’ll find one town the right side of the road, and a separate town on the left. There are similar stretches along St. Charles Rock Road (also known as Route 180) to the south, along I-70, and along the I-170 bypass. The town boundaries are drawn in such a way that each municipality in the area gets a stretch of highway, which can be a lucrative source of revenue. “Theoretically, you could be driving home from work on this road, and if you have expired tags or no inspection sticker, you could get pulled over 16 different times in 16 different towns, and written up for the same violations each time,” Harvey says.
^ This is the case for EVERY major road in the area.
It is so out of control that we have passed laws limiting how much money any particular township can collect from traffic tickets.. but even that hasn't been working
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/koster-sues-st-louis-county-municipalities-over-court-fees/article_09652317-c932-55b3-ab1d-f1e0bc478c0b.html
Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster on Thursday sued 13 municipalities in St. Louis County, accusing them of violating a state law limiting profits that cities can take from traffic cases.
The law caps traffic court income at 30 percent of a municipality’s general operating revenue and requires that any excess be sent to the state for education. Municipal courts are also required to send detailed financial information to the state auditor for tracking.
He isn't even suing all of the counties that break the 30% limit either.. at least not yet
EVERYONE NEEDS TO MUTE
EVERYONE NEEDS TO MUTE
:thumb:
:))
For the record, I think roundabouts are fine and generally safe, I was simply voicing a potential concern. And then it spiraled... :| I think I'm done arguing on the internet for...awhile.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO MUTE
:thumb:
:))
For the record, I think roundabouts are fine and generally safe, I was simply voicing a potential concern. And then it spiraled... :| I think I'm done arguing on the internet for...awhile.
Impromptu keyboard meetup in Indianapolis two weekends from now. Field trip to Carmel roundabouts included. I will rent the largest vehicle I can legally drive without a special license. Also will include a trip to 96th and Allisonville to experience the "Michigan Left."
Saint Louis is a nightmare beyond comprehension for most people, driving wise..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/
Drive along an approximately 10-mile stretch along the east-west Route 115 (also known as the Natural Bridge Road), and you�ll cross through sixteen different municipalities. At some points along the route, you�ll find one town the right side of the road, and a separate town on the left. There are similar stretches along St. Charles Rock Road (also known as Route 180) to the south, along I-70, and along the I-170 bypass. The town boundaries are drawn in such a way that each municipality in the area gets a stretch of highway, which can be a lucrative source of revenue. �Theoretically, you could be driving home from work on this road, and if you have expired tags or no inspection sticker, you could get pulled over 16 different times in 16 different towns, and written up for the same violations each time,� Harvey says.
^ This is the case for EVERY major road in the area.
It is so out of control that we have passed laws limiting how much money any particular township can collect from traffic tickets.. but even that hasn't been working
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/koster-sues-st-louis-county-municipalities-over-court-fees/article_09652317-c932-55b3-ab1d-f1e0bc478c0b.html
Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster on Thursday sued 13 municipalities in St. Louis County, accusing them of violating a state law limiting profits that cities can take from traffic cases.
The law caps traffic court income at 30 percent of a municipality�s general operating revenue and requires that any excess be sent to the state for education. Municipal courts are also required to send detailed financial information to the state auditor for tracking.
He isn't even suing all of the counties that break the 30% limit either.. at least not yet
Time for Unigov, bro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unigov
No not really.These pictures are intended to be indictments of the roundabouts right? Those three are all awful. They take up like 10x more space than any regular intersection.Show Image(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/24989317.jpg)
Or another one:Show Image(http://bin.snmmd.nl/m/m1dycgpwhg6v.jpg)
And they are great for cyclists too:Show Image(http://www.hilversumbeterbereikbaar.nl/files/Rotonde%20MBB%20Media%20Paruk%20630px.jpg)
History of roundabouts
Published on 13-06-2009. Last updated on 31-10-2011.
Since 1990 roundabouts in the Netherlands, where cyclists on the roundabout have priority over traffic roundabout up and down properly.
Roundabout
Previously only knew Netherlands roundabouts where the line 'right way' was applicable. As a rule, these were larger roundabouts. This car traffic on the roundabout could still fairly hard drive. Priority for traffic from the right led to a lot of waiting cars on the roundabout, which is the flow of car did not help.
In the eighties came from England blow over the idea to give the traffic on the roundabout at the traffic roundabout up and down properly. In that case, they showed much smaller roundabouts also good to the feet. Also in the Netherlands hit the 'roundabout' on. Experiences were even better when the center island of the roundabout was designed larger. This new style roundabout appeared suddenly a great good speed inhibitor. On a well-designed car traffic roundabout drive no faster than 35 km / h.
On the position of cyclists was initially not discussed. On roundabouts without facilities and bicycle lanes cyclists were naturally priority was on roundabouts with separate bicycle paths, the 'obvious' that cyclists had to give water.
Enschede: first roundabout where cyclists priority
Around 1990 the municipality of Enschede suggested this first discussion. Because the speed of cars is so low, would prevail Priority Roundaboutfor cyclists are perhaps no problem. By the circular bike path, it fits nicely into the roundabout and the road user understands that the bike lane has priority. Enschede therefore did a test with a roundabout on which the corresponding paths had priority. And so the Knalhutte roundabout was (named after the Knalhutteweg) an experiment that thinking about cycling on roundabouts would change drastically.
The first experiences and observational studies on the Knalhutte roundabout were very encouraging. Reason for the municipality of Enschede to do in other roundabouts cyclists priority.
soon followed some other municipalities, first in Twente later elsewhere. This resulted in a few years time a totally chaotic situation in our country. The road user was faced with a multitude of shapes and priority schemes and understood that all anymore. This was by all road authorities in our country considered undesirable.
Unity in roundabouts (CROW)
was therefore launched a consultation in 1993 under the auspices of the authoritative institute CROW with the aim to come up with recommendations for a uniform design and priority rules for roundabouts. This eventually led to recommendation 'Unity in roundabouts (CROW). This recommendation was endorsed by the Minister, the provinces, municipalities and civil society organizations as VVN, ANWB and also by the Cyclists. This was a priority for cyclists at roundabouts within the built-up experiment promoted to the recommendation. The supplement published in December 2002 CROW 126a confirms this choice.
There is almost one stop sign every 300 feet here.
That's not a roundabout. It just looks like one ...Show Image(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/24989317.jpg)
if a driver wants to exit and there is an old lady blocking the way, do you keep circling or just stop?You stop. It is no different than any other pedestrian crossing. If it is a larger/more trafficked roundabout then there should be some distance between it and the crossing.
Saint Louis is a nightmare beyond comprehension for most people, driving wise..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/
Drive along an approximately 10-mile stretch along the east-west Route 115 (also known as the Natural Bridge Road), and you�ll cross through sixteen different municipalities. At some points along the route, you�ll find one town the right side of the road, and a separate town on the left. There are similar stretches along St. Charles Rock Road (also known as Route 180) to the south, along I-70, and along the I-170 bypass. The town boundaries are drawn in such a way that each municipality in the area gets a stretch of highway, which can be a lucrative source of revenue. �Theoretically, you could be driving home from work on this road, and if you have expired tags or no inspection sticker, you could get pulled over 16 different times in 16 different towns, and written up for the same violations each time,� Harvey says.
^ This is the case for EVERY major road in the area.
It is so out of control that we have passed laws limiting how much money any particular township can collect from traffic tickets.. but even that hasn't been working
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/koster-sues-st-louis-county-municipalities-over-court-fees/article_09652317-c932-55b3-ab1d-f1e0bc478c0b.html
Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster on Thursday sued 13 municipalities in St. Louis County, accusing them of violating a state law limiting profits that cities can take from traffic cases.
The law caps traffic court income at 30 percent of a municipality�s general operating revenue and requires that any excess be sent to the state for education. Municipal courts are also required to send detailed financial information to the state auditor for tracking.
He isn't even suing all of the counties that break the 30% limit either.. at least not yet
Time for Unigov, bro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unigov
None of the 'rich' townships/counties support a 'unigov' style consolidation.. and guess who the politicians listen to
So where I live at the city is looking to put in roundabouts at 6 places on a fairly major road that is a 45mph zone all the way across town and is 6 lanes both directions. I haven't read details yet as it was just voted on today. But a lot of people are scared to death of them as there is only one other one in town in an out of the way corner.Imagine all the people with rwd. And some decent power having some fun around them? Either drift, or maximum lateral G's. Or like the dukes of hazard gif.
Personally I like the idea of them for various safety and traffic throughput reasons.
I was wondering if anyone else here has personal experience with them vs a tradition 4 way stop light on busy roads.
Just wait until you get one of these babies:(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/wtf_is_that_martin_freeman.gif)Show Image(http://blog-imgs-26.fc2.com/0/1/1/011010/20080714-0101.jpg)
Its called the "Magic Roundabout" in Swindon in the UK.
If you look closely, its 5 small roundabouts circling around a larger center one...even more interesting, the outer ones are clockwise, as would be expected in the UK, but the center one is counter-clockwise.
How about a ride with a couple Finn's around it?
That's not a roundabout. It just looks like one ...Show Image(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/24989317.jpg)