geekhack

geekhack Marketplace => Great Finds => Topic started by: Hak Foo on Fri, 28 August 2009, 09:00:02

Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 28 August 2009, 09:00:02: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823224001&Tpk=23-224-001

If the teething problems didn't shy you on the M1.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 28 August 2009, 09:08:49: Wow, they really changed up the ABS M1. Mine looks nothing like it; it looks just like the Filco with different switches. I like the Filco font better.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: rdjack21 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 09:23:23: I guess I'm going to have to wait a bit to sell mine. Wonder why newegg keeps putting this board on sale all the time. I do have to say $40 for it not a bad deal. I was going to sell mine for about $20 but may not even get that with this sale going on.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 09:23:23: I'd say they're having trouble selling them and are trying to clear up stock. If I were them, I'd do a slight redesign of the appearance, add proper NKRO and maybe backlit keys, and sell it as the ABS M2.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 10:58:45: I honestly thought that the M1 looks exactly like a Filco 104. Do you guys think that in reality, it is a Filco but they rebranded it to ABS?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 11:09:19: Considering the controller problems they had, I doubt it. Also, Filco don't sell any Black Alps models. They do however come out of the same factory, as does the Das and possibly the iRocks.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 28 August 2009, 11:10:26: How does the M1 feel in comparison to the AT101W?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 11:31:26: Quote from: timw4mail;112616
How does the M1 feel in comparison to the AT101W?

well, if you find an m1 with the fukkas, a lot of folks around here say its better than regular blacks. But from what i understand some m1's have xm-based blacks? Only way to know given a m1 board is to open up a key?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 11:33:41: Is there any pattern to the XM vs Fukkas? Are old ones XM and new ones Fukkas? Or is it at random? I'd guess that if they are churned out in the same factory as the Filcos, the switchover was probably made at the same time.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 12:26:26: Quote from: ch_123;112634
Is there any pattern to the XM vs Fukkas? Are old ones XM and new ones Fukkas? Or is it at random?

i'd like to know this too...
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: o2dazone on Fri, 28 August 2009, 12:34:27: Quote from: ch_123;112613
Considering the controller problems they had, I doubt it. Also, Filco don't sell any Black Alps models. They do however come out of the same factory, as does the Das and possibly the iRocks.

Yus

http://www.costar.com.tw/products01/info.php?p_id=45&p_sid=32

The same model is like...5 other keyboards, Filco ABS, etc
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 28 August 2009, 12:34:27: The ABS comes with Alps copies, not Fukkas. They might be XMs or Strongmans, but I am not sure. They are heavier than the Alps swithces in the Dell, but they are more tactile. The M1's switches are also louder and clunkier than the Dell's.

Recently, the Filcos were switched from the XM to the Fukkas, but I am unsure about other keyboards Costar manufactures. Therefore, the old Filco Zeros, the ones with the model number ending in "-Y" and discounted on elitekeyboards, are XM. The new Filco Zero, the ones with the model number not ending in "-Y," are Fukkas.

See here: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6797
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: sixty on Fri, 28 August 2009, 12:35:18: Quote from: ch_123;112613
Considering the controller problems they had, I doubt it. Also, Filco don't sell any Black Alps models.

They do. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6602)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: D-EJ915 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 12:37:13: If you buy 3 you would get 10% off too http://promotions.newegg.com/Rosewill/Laborday09/index.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL082809&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL082809-_-MECH-_-EB1A-_-RosewillABS
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 12:53:10: Quote from: sixty;112661
They do. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6602)

But the ABS use some simplified or fake ones. That Filco looks like a custom run, obviously they just stumbled across some complicated switches somwhere or other.

And the controller issue of course.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 13:06:11: Quote from: ch_123;112675
But the ABS use some simplified or fake ones. That Filco looks like a custom run, obviously they just stumbled across some complicated switches somwhere or other.

And the controller issue of course.

what was the controller issue? (i missed a lot of the m1 discussion). Does it affect all m1's? or just a batch?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 13:12:40: Yeah, I think it has been since resolved.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: kyamei on Fri, 28 August 2009, 14:34:21: I already posted pictures of the M1's switch internals when I first got the board back in July -- looks the same as the Fukkas.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3050&d=1246963923)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3051&d=1246963930)

Rollover on the board seems to be exactly the same as the non-NKRO Filco boards.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 14:45:01: ok thanks.

CMR's matias tp2 'optimizer' edition also seems to be clicky white fukkas (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=112709&postcount=14). Amazon has those for $89.
[update - the one at amazon is not the tactile pro but a rubber dome version. The only tactile pro optimizer i found on sale was a single one on froogle.com being sold for about $120. The matias website lists the optimizer as discontinued and out of stock, though originally selling for about $150.]
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: Special K on Fri, 28 August 2009, 16:00:42: Quote from: watduzhkstand4;112608
I honestly thought that the M1 looks exactly like a Filco 104. Do you guys think that in reality, it is a Filco but they rebranded it to ABS?

Both Filco and ABS use the same OEM (Costar) to manufacture their keyboards, so the similarity is understandable.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: Special K on Fri, 28 August 2009, 16:03:33: Quote from: ch_123;112558
I'd say they're having trouble selling them and are trying to clear up stock. If I were them, I'd do a slight redesign of the appearance, add proper NKRO and maybe backlit keys, and sell it as the ABS M2.

I like this idea. I don't need the backlit keys, but adding proper NKRO seems like a no-brainer to me, considering the only complaints people seem to post about this keyboard concern the number of simultaneous keypresses it will register.

In fact, I think I'll send an email to ABS with this suggestion. My last string of emails caused them to pull their "6 key rollover" claim from the M1 ad on their website; maybe they would listen to a new product suggestion as well.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 28 August 2009, 16:49:57: The backlit thing is something I dislike too, I'm just suggesting it out of marketability to the ignorant masses. There's alot of people on other forums who won't consider good keyboards because they aren't backlit. Stupid I know, but sometimes you have to design these things for other people if you want to sell them.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 29 August 2009, 20:52:24: Quote from: ripster;112884
OK, so I was wrong and they ARE probably Fukkas.

So why the excitement over Fukkas when before they had that name the ABS switches were generally acknowledged to be "meh"?

This is known as GOOD marketing.

I believe abs switched to fukkas at some point; they didnt always have fukkas. Isnt that right?

I think that is the case based on early models that were reviewed here which, IIRC, were shown to have black alps/strongmans/xm's. Some of those reviews/pics might be in reviews section.

Btw I havent been following the abs m1 discussions, the above is based on a very rough sense of whats going on. But I do believe abs m1 switched to fukkas at some point from some other switch.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 29 August 2009, 22:10:20: Quote from: ripster;113025
I don't think so. I think Majestouch said Fukka and everybody then said Looka.

lol, i know you think that ;) Hold on, i'm investigating. Though mind you I cant be held responsible for what the crowds do ;)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 29 August 2009, 23:15:25: ok Ripster, here's the thing. I think you're right that abs m1 may well have come with fukkas, and that people mistakenly thought it had black alps. For the sake of argument, lets say that is the case.

Now, for the sake of playing devil's advocate, I'm still going to take on your argument here. Basically you're insinuating that "everyone here poo-poo'ed abs m1 until they found out it was fukkas and then they suddenly liked it" -- the clear implication being that everyone here are slaves to great marketing and the implication additionally being that fukkas arent that great in and of themselves.

Well, clearly i'm among those who say the fukkas are immediately noticeable as a different and better variety of alps; and in my own case, I said so as early as my experience with the matias tp2 real-simplified board last february.

Of course I cant speak for the masses here. That said -- I dont think your argument holds much water when its looked at closely. Ie, your argument that "everyone here poo-pooed the abs m1 before they found out it was fukkas."

Exhibit A: Far from poo-pooing, see these quotes from actual reviews of the abs m1 in GH's review forum. There are three and only three reviews of the M1 in our reviews section, and they are all from before the fukka information broke. So one is from way back in december 08, the others are from way back in Jan 09 and Feb 09.

First lets look at Itlnstln's review - in which he specifically states he has not opened up the switch, so he doesnt know whats inside:

He says: "First Impressions... I should have bought this 'board sooner....I have not popped a keycap to inspect (Filco owners, help me out here), but the keys feel much heavier than those of the Dell"

""The feel of the keys is fantastic". Although the ABS has switches simiar to those in the Dell (my Dells were NIB, so usage experience will be similar), the tactile feedback is more pronounced and there is a stronger spring-back in the switch, producing a somewhat different feel. I am not sure who is making these fake Alps, but they did a phenomenal job; IMO, they feel better than the [dell] Alps switches"

And this is what he concludes - again WITHOUT KNOWING THEY ARE FUKKAS: "All in all, this is, by far, the best keyboard I have typed on... I am heading off to Newegg to order another for home right now"

Not quite a poo-poo assessment, is it? Lets look at the second review of the abs m1 on geekhack reviews forum:

This one is by inaneframe: Note inaneframe ALSO does not know they are fukka's; he is in fact under the impression that they are black alps.

"The ABS M1 Mechanical "Gaming" Keyboard is the first "black alps switch" that I have ever used but if any other black alps are anything like this, I'm in for a real treat and for those of you who count yourselves fans of black alps, you could add another to your number".

"I have to say that I love this keyboard, I love typing on it. It is probably one of the better feeling keyboards that I have ever used"

"This keyboard, I feel will be the watermark against which I will be judging all other keyboards in the future. I think that I have found my favorite and day to day keyboard "

"As it stands, my overall impression of the ABS M1 is that it is as near to perfection as any typingboard that has ever had the pleasure of being keyed by my blessed hands"

Not quite a poo-poo assessment -- is it glowing enough for you? Again, to reiterate: he is not aware that they are fukkas; the dastardly marketing campaign (as you characterize it) hasnt had a chance to become operative here.

Finally, from the third (and last) review of the m1 in our reviews forum -- from ozar. Now, ozar is initially on the fence with the m1; he starts out saying its nice but he's not sure yet. But just one week later, he is saying:

"I've continued to play with this board and it's starting to grow on me... it's definitely a keeper"

Not quite a poo-poo account is it?

So - I think we've established that for those who actually put their hands on an abs m1 with fukkas -- even when all three didnt realize it had fukkas -- two of them immediately loved it with gushing praise, and the other came to like it a lot.

Now lets look at what sorts of criticisms abs m1 has received, which you consider to be 'poo pooing' of the abs m1.

1) since everyone was under the impression that abs m1 had black alps, in the comments/discussion section of these reviews, those who did not actually lay their hands on the m1, but were told it was black alps, and who did not think highly of regular black alps, naturally expressed that sentiment in the comments of these reviews. Ie, if you want to count their comments as 'poo pooing', then you have to acknowledge those are from people who didnt actually touch or use that board.

2) The rollover issue with the m1 was poo pooed, sure. That is a controller issue, not a switch issue, of course.

3) For the one or two negative comments you might find for the m1's key feel if you search the forum from top to bottom to find them - is it that suprising that any switch will have a few detractors? If you take them into account, you certainly have to take into account the gushing extended reviews noted above by those who actually bought these boards. Would you still characterize the reception of this board's key feel, on the whole, as 'poo pooing'?

And finally, it wasnt abs marketing that brought attention to us that they were fukkas - the website only shows a side view profile diagram of the switch from which it is impossible to tell - rather, what brought us news that they were fukkas, was that someone finally opened up a switch and posted a pic of the guts.

In the comments thread of one of the reviews above, I actually request someone post a pic of the m1's switch guts, but no one posted it. It was only many months later that that switch was identified as real-simplified/fukka.

Abs website I dont think even mentions fukkas (the filco on majestouch website does, but thats another board). Whats more, even in the majestouch/filco case, we had gushing reviews before we had a pic, before we understood what fukka actually meant; before we connected fukka's to real-simplifieds (and thus to that switch's own previous history of gushing reviews).

In conclusion then, rippy, I have to disagree with your assessment of what happened with the abs m1 (and its fukka switches) on this site.

You say they were poopooed until abs or other marketing defined them as fukkas, at which point you say many if not all geekhackers, lemming-like, suddenly liked it. On nearly every point, I'd argue, your (cynical!) assessment of both this board and these switches does not hold water.
-the abs was NOT poo pooed by those who actually used and bought it. In fact it got some of the most glowing reviews any keyboard has ever gotten on this site.
-this praise did not happen after fukka or abs marketing hit us - it happened BEFORE that.
:-) /end devils advocation.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: o2dazone on Sun, 30 August 2009, 00:20:11: I've never seen an apple poo
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 30 August 2009, 18:38:02: ripster, i think you're right.

if the simplified alps coming out of that alps factory are as good as our reviews say they are... then they haven't been getting enough press. therefore the branding as fukka was a great idea.

i'll judge by my own fingers as soon as my filco zero arrives :)

wellington, thanks for digging up the positive reviews; they're helping me be less nervous about having placed that order. (i'm still hoping to get used to these super-light cherry browns; my initial typo rate was terrible, hopefully it will continue to improve... but i'm now sure i'm a naturally forceful typist, especially having used BS for a couple of years ;)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 30 August 2009, 18:51:53: thats quite the detective work wellington. I am half tempted to order the abs m1 just to check it out.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Sun, 30 August 2009, 19:16:06: How is it that they get so dirty?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 30 August 2009, 19:22:28: Quote from: msiegel;113204
but i'm now sure i'm a naturally forceful typist, especially having used BS for a couple of years ;)

I feel the same way about my typing. I tried the light switches and couldnt stay with them. I think I just am naturally a heavy typer and so need switches on the higher end of the resistance range.

The real-simplified alps arent as heavy as bs, but still have enough feel to be meaty. For me they actually might be an ideal weight because I occasionally find the bs to be a bit heavier than i'd like.

I thought about it once and I think the reason the real-simplifieds appealed to me so much is basically because they felt similar to bs (even tho mechanism is so different) in terms of the 'substantialness' of the downstroke.

I'd be pretty happy having one bs board and one real-simplified board. :)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 30 August 2009, 19:26:21: Quote from: ripster;113209
They felt incredibly stiff as if they were stuck.

that's the one i'm worred about

but wellington's review(s) say the clicky version of the switch has smooth action, so i figure it's worth a shot

otherwise, loud switches will be fine for me. i want the clicking and i'm planning a slider transplant to quell the clacking :)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 30 August 2009, 19:27:16: Quote from: bigpook;113208
thats quite the detective work wellington. I am half tempted to order the abs m1 just to check it out.

ya, it seems like a quality board and what a great price. Although of course the abs m1 is basically 'black fukkas' (ie, NO click, only topping/bottoming clacks, and the tactile leaf). whereas the filco tenkeyless is basically 'white fukkas' (ie, click plus the tactility plus the clacks). In general I've preferred the whites with the click leaf.

But these switches are so easily moddable. For instance: aekii damper-sliders means no clack (on either board; put them on the blacks and you can get quite a silent board). Or pull the tactile leaf out altogether and you have a linear switch like the red or black cherries. Hell, you can even substitute the spring from another alps board if you like it better.

So for $40 basically you could pick up a fukka modding board.

I still prefer the whites so I'll likely get the tenkeyless... I'm looking for a 104 key version though.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 30 August 2009, 19:29:27: ripster,
your repeated posting of that filthy next is making me want double-shot alps keycaps ;)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: kyamei on Sun, 30 August 2009, 19:31:03: Quote from: ripster;113209
After spending $15 on a NIB Dell and a little more on the NeXT I was thoroughly unimpressed with Complicated Black ALPS.

From the time I got my M1 I have always thought it's switches felt better than the AT101W. Then again, all the Alps switches I have tried (XM white, Fukka black, complicated black, complicated white) make up my least favorite mechanical switch list.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 30 August 2009, 19:32:48: Quote from: ripster;113209
I find it odd that now everyone is interested in them.

jeez rippy i thought i addressed that ;)

everyone (who didnt actually try them before) is now interested in them because now we realize they are not the usual mediocre black alps. And its heartening that of those who did try them, there were a lot of comments that they were diferent from black alps and much better. (despite the relatively few comments you can dig up from detractors). :) I'm hardly surprised that any switch is going to have a few detractors. But it seems clear that from those who actually tried the board, most were *very* impressed and even seemed to realize these were different in some way (before they knew all the details).

If there is "fervor" now, its because we know the details and there is an explanation for that awesomeness that they had commented upon.

That said, if you like light switches (as I think you do), I dont think these switches are for you. They're lighter than bs, but they're going to be heavier than your favorites (cherries/topres).
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 30 August 2009, 20:20:48: Quote from: ripster;113214
I assume all you programmers have keyboards that look like this?

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4171&stc=1&d=1251678074)

Actually, to be serious for a sec I think the ALPS design seems a little inherently more susceptible to dirt. You got that big key stem sliding up an down. Taking one apart I found the key stem to be grimy. It was also very apparent typing on a NIB Dell vs the NeXT.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4173&stc=1&d=1251678326)

No CHEETOS and Coke while hiking the ALPS!

I thought you cleaned those keycaps, Ripster.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 30 August 2009, 20:33:35: Quote from: ripster;113214
I think the ALPS design seems a little inherently more susceptible to dirt

that's interesting -- i wonder if they actually get dirtier, or if they just respond less well to being dirty.

hmm...
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 30 August 2009, 22:39:06: Quote from: kyamei;112712
I already posted pictures of the M1's switch internals when I first got the board back in July -- looks the same as the Fukkas.

kyamei - you're right, you were probably the first one to post the pics of the fukka. I did not see your original post (I hadnt been paying attention to abs discussion because I had assumed it was xm or black alps); if I had seen it, I would have been very excited (just as I was when I finally saw pook's pics of it). Because I had previous experience with that switch on my matias tp2 (which I reviewed back in february), and I loved it back then, but I thought that unfortunately no one in the world was making them anymore (The TP2 I had had controller problems; and the tp2 itself got discontinued by matias so I couldnt find a replacement; so they were amazingly hard to find.)

I liked them so much that I saved my carcass of tp2 just to be able to -- some day -- solder them into a different alps board. I liked them so much that I tried soldering them into an at101w (but my soldering skills werent good enough, I wound up burning up many of the switches and it didnt work). I liked them so much I kept the tp2 carcass in my room for another four months, hoping to save the other real-simplified switches on it for eventually soldering into yet another board. I finally only sold off my alps spare parts and dumped the tp2 carcass just recently, having given up on both my own soldering skills and on the possiblity of finding a modern contemporary manufacturer of them.

That is why my heart skipped a beat when I saw pook's pic of the fukka. I didnt think I'd ever see those switches again on a contemporary board.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 00:34:11: Quote from: ripster;113257

Welly, love ya man but ya gotta calm down and just try one first and let us know what you think.

lol, dude the pics dont lie... thats a real-simplified if I ever saw one. And the reviews by cmr (the tp2 he just acquired), by itlnstln (abs), by pook (tenkeyless), by inaneframe (abs), and others, their descriptions of the fukkas, tell me its the same switch I saw on my tp2. (I dont know why you're discounting their impressions ;). But reading them, i'm pretty convinced its the same switch I liked on my tp2 back in February. But yes, I'll post a new review along with everyone else's soon as I have it...
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 31 August 2009, 00:43:48: :) i'm trying to remain calm myself... and not set expectations too high... but i really do miss using alps

:nostalgia:

and i'm eagerly awaiting that zero's arrival

come on, fedex santa claus
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 31 August 2009, 00:46:36: @ripster

darth fader?

may the flush be with you
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 07:19:00: If the ABS has Fukka switches, then I will be the first to say that Fukka switches suck. The switches in the ABS feel nothing like the Alps blacks in the Dell AT-101W. They are stiffer, louder and have more tactility than the Alps in the Dells. If Fukka is using the same factory and machinery as Alps, then I would imagine they would feel much closer to the Dells' switches than they currently do. The members that have tried the white version of the switches have said they feel almost exactly like original Alps (which they should, all things considered). That being said, either the ABS does not have Fukka switches, or Fukka did a pretty crappy job on the switches used in the ABS M1.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 07:22:24: Oh, and one of those glowing reviews of the ABS was mine. It is a pretty nice 'board when new, but over time, the switches get tough and heavy. They become more "balky" a la big pook. The tactility was nice, which really impressed me, but the switches became too stiff to use over the long haul.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 08:05:59: Quote from: itlnstln;113298
Oh, and one of those glowing reviews of the ABS was mine. It is a pretty nice 'board when new, but over time, the switches get tough and heavy. They become more "balky" a la big pook. The tactility was nice, which really impressed me, but the switches became too stiff to use over the long haul.

are you sure these weren't the XM switches? I had those with the first run of the filco zero.
The newer fukka's are completely different. I don't detect any balkyness ( I think I just made up a word ) they also seem to be more springier.

I also liked the tactility of the XM's at first. It was pretty awesome actually. But the downside was the switches beat up my fingers and fatigue set in. I never experienced that, even on the BS keys.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 08:46:13: Quote from: bigpook;113308
are you sure these weren't the XM switches? I had those with the first run of the filco zero.
The newer fukka's are completely different. I don't detect any balkyness ( I think I just made up a word ) they also seem to be more springier.

I also liked the tactility of the XM's at first. It was pretty awesome actually. But the downside was the switches beat up my fingers and fatigue set in. I never experienced that, even on the BS keys.

I don't know. My experience seems to have mirrored yours. The switches were awesome at first, but over time, they became stiff and heavy.

I think many times, we focus on as many good things as we can in a review since we just spent a bunch of money on a new keyboard, so if there is any redeeming value of said keyboard, we latch on it to "justify" the expenditure. That said, when the newness wears off, we start to see the keyboard for what it really is, and in this case, it turned otu to be a minor disappointment. Hell, I thought this 'board was so good when I got it, that I bought a second. Now that have been on Cherry browns for quite awhile now, I might buy another Filco or Cherry, but I should not have bought a second M1.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:06:49: Yeah, we all make some mistakes. I am thinking you don't have the fukka switches though.
One way to salvage it is to get a dell at101 and swap the keys.

But if you are really liking the cherry browns, then even the black alps may be a bit too much.

I put the cherry browns down as the lightest switch I have yet to use, then the topres, then the black alps.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:16:09: I have used my Dells a few times since getting my Cherry 'boards, and they are still nice, but I like the lightness of the Cherrys better.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: kyamei on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:17:38: Quote from: itlnstln;113296
If the ABS has Fukka switches, then I will be the first to say that Fukka switches suck. The switches in the ABS feel nothing like the Alps blacks in the Dell AT-101W.

Considering that your board looks different from the current board, I'd say the chances are good that it has XM switches. Why not open a switch and take a look?

I'm not trying to defend Fukkas, I'm just curious. I personally don't think very highly of any of the Alps variations I have tried.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:19:50: No doubt, the cherry browns are probably the lightest switch going right now. I think any switch in comparison will seem heavier.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 09:49:45: Quote from: kyamei;113328
Considering that your board looks different from the current board, I'd say the chances are good that it has XM switches. Why not open a switch and take a look?

I'm not trying to defend Fukkas, I'm just curious. I personally don't think very highly of any of the Alps variations I have tried.

That may very well be. I'll try to at least pull a cap to see what the top of the switch looks like.

Now that I have used Cherrys for awhile, I'm not as high on Alps as I used to be. It's not even because they are stiffer than the Cherry browns. I don't think they are as smooth or refined of a switch as the Cherrys or BS.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 10:04:46: Alps, the uni sushi of the keyboard world. It really is an acquired taste.

ooooh thats nasty (http://www.sushifaq.com/sushi-items/sushi-items-uni.htm)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 11:31:18: Quote from: bigpook;113326
Yeah, we all make some mistakes. I am thinking you don't have the fukka switches though.
One way to salvage it is to get a dell at101 and swap the keys.

But if you are really liking the cherry browns, then even the black alps may be a bit too much.

I put the cherry browns down as the lightest switch I have yet to use, then the topres, then the black alps.

itln you prolly had xm's. if you still have the board, can you open a switch?
regardless, fukkas (real-simplifieds) are quite different from both regular black alps and definitely from xm's.

And if you were gushing about xm's like that, man, wtf. :)

And if they did have xm's, it goes back to my point about abs once having had xms and then switching over later on, which would further explain any early complaints about it (and explain recent gushings about it). :)

and if they're fukkas and you came to dislike them (after your amazing gushing early on), well it just proves that to each their own :) If you're a light-switch-fan now, i've always said folks on light switches may not like even the fukkas. :)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 11:52:02: Quote from: wellington1869;113369
itln you prolly had xm's. if you still have the board, can you open a switch?
regardless, fukkas (real-simplifieds) are quite different from both regular black alps and definitely from xm's.

And if you were gushing about xm's like that, man, wtf. :)

This is what pook and I were discussing earlier. At first, you tend to find some really nice thnigs about a 'board only to find out about the ugly things later. Right off the bat, the extra tactility and the overall 'board quality are excellent. It's like finding a sweet, beautiful lady. Then, after you spend more time with it, the ugliness starts to show. In the case of the ABS, the switches are abnormally loud for Alps, the keypress becomes stiff, etc. Now, that sweet, beautiful lady starts treating you like crap; yelling at you, farting bed, whatever. The bottom line is, I should have waited longer before falling in love with that keyboard. I ended up writing a misleading review and buying a second ABS when, after some time, I ended up not really liking it.

Quote from: wellington1869;113369
And if they did have xm's, it goes back to my point about abs once having had xms and then switching over later on, which would further explain any early complaints about it (and explain recent gushings about it). :)

and if they're fukkas and you came to dislike them (after your amazing gushing early on), well it just proves that to each their own :) If you're a light-switch-fan now, i've always said folks on light switches may not like even the fukkas. :)

Nowadays, I don't think I would have a very objective view on any type of Alps switch. After trying all of the major switch types (except Topre), I have already made up my mind on Alps-type switches. Overall, despite their excellent quality, I don't like feel of them much anymore. They were a great transition switch from BS to other, lighter switches, but I don't think I would ever want to use them day-to-day like a BS or Cherry brown 'board.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 11:57:46: Quote from: itlnstln;113376
It's like finding a sweet, beautiful lady.

tell me about it :)

Quote

Nowadays, I don't think I would have a very objective view on any type of Alps switch. After trying all of the major switch types (except Topre), I have already made up my mind on Alps-type switches. Overall, despite their excellent quality, I don't like feel of them much anymore. They were a great transition switch from BS to other, lighter switches, but I don't think I would ever want to use them day-to-day like a BS or Cherry brown 'board.

well if those were xm's, i'd be the first to argue that that means you havent ever tried fukkas/real-simplifieds and those might raise your view of alps just a bit. If they were fukkas to begin with, I'd argue you've drifted into topre-land and no one can help you now ;-D

Incidentally, my "fervor" (as rippy puts it :-D) about the fukka/real-simplifieds doesnt come from any belief on my part that they're the One Switch To Rule Them All. It merely comes from genuine *pleasant surprise* to see them being manufactured. I'd definitely buy them and I'd definitely keep them alongside my BS board as an equal.
And I guess that would mark a return to my bigamous ways :)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 11:57:58: boxer shorts man...lol that made my day
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:01:56: To a certain extent, while I do want to hear negatives about a product, to be sure, I think positive reviews tend to be better reveiws, in general. It impresses upon me that the reviewer has an open mind about the product, and that they are giving a fair shake. Of course, fanboy reviews represent the other extreme, and are not helpful either.

Now, if a product is an absolute POS, I want to know about it, too. That said, I don't think I would review another Alps-based keyboard simply because I don't think I would be open-minded enough to properly review it.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:04:37: Even now, I am not too sure I would like the Fukkas. I went back and typed on my Northgate and Dell, and I didn't really feel the "magic" like I did when I first got them. I am happy that somebody is making real Alps switches again instead of these off-brand copies.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:10:11: i wish there was proof too

here's hoping the simplified alps in the filco zero don't stiffen up...

i'm taking the risk because i have an aekii's worth of complicated cream alps to replace them with, if the worst does happen

/fingers crossed
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:15:46: Wow, this is beginning to sound like the Religion thread.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:23:05: Quote from: ripster;113391
Where's the proof these Fukkas aren't copies?

what does it matter if they are?
Quote

Where's the proof these are made with "vintage REAL ALPS machinery"?

what does it matter if they werent?
Quote

Where's the proof Mr. NoFukkaAround is still there doing quality control?

wont your fingers and ears tell you?

Quote

I think we keep cycling the REAL vs FAKE stuff into this

well, you keep bringing that back in - I think pook and me and others have said repeatedly (much to sandy's annoyance) that we dont really care if they're real or fake so long as they feel and sound good
Quote

when I'm not sure it matters.

it doesnt! :)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: o2dazone on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:24:33: angry about switches
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:44:46: wait... this is the ABS M1 thread??

crap, why am i posting in here

see you guys in the Filco tenless with fukka switches thread
:D
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: o2dazone on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:46:29: Quote from: ripster;113409
Woe to the keyboard noobie that wants to know whether to buy an ABS M1 and clicked here.

We should add a disclaimer to threads that get fukka'd up like this.

"NOOBS NEED NOT APPLY"
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:50:24: Quote from: ripster;113409

I think written text always makes people seems angry. I'm grinning the whole time I'm typing around here.

seconding - i'm grinning too. My 'logical' approach to problem solving sometimes makes me sound angry when i'm actually enjoying the whole thing.
Sandy totally misunderstood me, for instance ;)

Thats partly why I "litter" my posts with so many smiley faces. Doesnt seem to help sometimes though. :-D

Quote

Woe to the keyboard noobie that wants to know whether to buy an ABS M1 and clicked here.

yea, well, if people would just open up their switches the moment they acquire them, we wouldnt have this problem :-D
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:53:42: Quote from: ripster;113409
ItlnStln started it. He also started the Religion thread.

I might need to change my title. I, personally, don't care what what anybody calls anything, but I think the whole "real vs. fake" thing is only a way to describe switches actually made by ALPS vs. those that aren't, it's accurate, no? In the assortment of real and "compatible" switches I have tried, there is a noticable difference, for better or worse. I think what is happening is that since there is a perceived negative connotation around the word "fake." This is causing people to pan different switches without even trying them. For example, I know Welly really likes Strongmans, and they are "fake" ALPS.

I think a better way to describe them would be "Alps-Interface" switches with no descriptor of "real" or "fake." Then you could have multiple, "legit" manufacturers without an unintended quality assumption in the nomenclature.

I'm off to start some more sh*t now.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 12:58:55: Quote from: itlnstln;113423
For example, I know Welly really likes Strongmans, and they are "fake" ALPS.

yea, i like strongmans better than regular alps. (and dammit, yes, I just used the non-canonical term "regular". sue me :-D)

Quote

I'm off to start some more sh*t now.

dude I like your hijackings, cuz frankly, I dont have much to say about keyboards anymore unless a riot breaks out ;) Then it gets fun again ;)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 31 August 2009, 13:02:26: Quote from: wellington1869;113419
if people would just open up their switches they moment they acquire them, we wouldnt have this problem :-D

good idea, will do.

oops, i'm not supposed to be in this thread ;)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:14:57: Quote from: itlnstln;112659
The ABS comes with Alps copies, not Fukkas. They might be XMs or Strongmans, but I am not sure. They are heavier than the Alps swithces in the Dell, but they are more tactile. The M1's switches are also louder and clunkier than the Dell's.

Interestingly, I have a different feeling. I find the M1 to be smoother than my AT101W, but I find the latter to be more tactile. I mean the tactile point can be felt clearly regardless of where I press the keys. On the M1, I tend to feel the tactile point less if I don't press on the top portion of the keys.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:15:52: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;113456
Interestingly, I have a different feeling. I find the M1 to be smoother than my AT101W, but I find the latter to be more tactile. I mean the tactile point can be felt clearly regardless of where I press the keys. On the M1, I tend to feel the tactile point less if I don't press on the top portion of the keys.

patrick, does your m1 have fukkas or xm's or bigfoots? need pic! From your descripion i'll bet money they're fukkas.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:16:43: How old is your M1, and does the font used on the keys look identical to your Filco, or is different?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:20:41: Quote from: wellington1869;113457
patrick, does your m1 have fukkas or xm's or bigfoots? need pic! From your descripion i'll bet money they're fukkas.

How would I know? I have never taken apart a switch.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:22:06: Quote from: itlnstln;113459
How old is your M1, and does the font used on the keys look identical to your Filco, or is different?

My M1 was bought around end of May, beginning of June of this year. I don't have it with me, I'll check later if there is a production date on it. The font is not identical, but the case is.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:26:30: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;113461
How would I know? I have never taken apart a switch.

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=111922&postcount=11

:-D Now you have a project for when your daughter is taking her nap :-D
I think that goes for you too, itln! :-D

Btw, Reassembly is easier than it looks. A spot of vaseline or silicon grease will help "stick" the spring inside the slider and keep it from falling out, which is the main difficulty. The rest is easy.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=ALPS+switches&do=comments&page=2&highlight=vaseline (scroll down a bit).
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:38:18: Quote from: patrickgeekhack;113462
My M1 was bought around end of May, beginning of June of this year. I don't have it with me, I'll check later if there is a production date on it. The font is not identical, but the case is.

I would imagine Costar did a new hardware revision since it seems they had to find a new source of Alps-style switches. From what I am reading from people that have the new 'boards (ones with the new font on the caps), is that they might have the Fukka switches where the older ones with the Filco font on the caps probably have some other type of switch.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 15:57:35: Quote from: itlnstln;113466
I would imagine Costar did a new hardware revision since it seems they had to find a new source of Alps-style switches. From what I am reading from people that have the new 'boards (ones with the new font on the caps), is that they might have the Fukka switches where the older ones with the Filco font on the caps probably have some other type of switch.

thats my guess too. that there were two versions of the m1, with the latter version being less sucky.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 31 August 2009, 17:13:30: Quote from: wellington1869;113464
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=111922&postcount=11

:-D Now you have a project for when your daughter is taking her nap :-D
I think that goes for you too, itln! :-D

Btw, Reassembly is easier than it looks. A spot of vaseline or silicon grease will help "stick" the spring inside the slider and keep it from falling out, which is the main difficulty. The rest is easy.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=ALPS+switches&do=comments&page=2&highlight=vaseline (scroll down a bit).

If she does nap. It's not un common for her to nap for 15 minutes only and a total of half-hour max in a day. Days like these are very tough.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: rdjack21 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 17:30:59: Quote from: wellington1869;113464
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=111922&postcount=11

:-D Now you have a project for when your daughter is taking her nap :-D
I think that goes for you too, itln! :-D

Btw, Reassembly is easier than it looks. A spot of vaseline or silicon grease will help "stick" the spring inside the slider and keep it from falling out, which is the main difficulty. The rest is easy.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=ALPS+switches&do=comments&page=2&highlight=vaseline (scroll down a bit).

Tell you what I'll sell you mine and you can take it apart your self :laugh:

Or I can just give it to my son along with a sledge hammer and tell him to go for it. By the time he is through with it I bet one of those keys pop open :laugh: Don't know about getting it back together again though.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:04:39: Quote

Tell you what I'll sell you mine and you can take it apart your self

lol rd, after reading the abs/tenkeyless threads, I'm willing to throw two screwdrivers in the back of my car and drive across the country offering alps removal services ;)

ripster, where is that pic from? I've never seen anything like that happen with all my alps modding or anyone elses on this site. Alps keys and switches have a reputation for toughness if anything. It looks like someone indiscriminantly and abruptly yanked the key upwards there. I'd like to see what that'd do to any other switch too.

you have to wiggle, not yank. (A general rule to live life by ;D )

Btw I highly recommend the hoolean key puller (http://hooleon.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AC-999-0039&Category_Code=A-KBA&Product_Count=2), makes life so much easier. Alps keys are pretty tight, takes a lot of wiggling with two cross-leveraged screwdrivers under the key to initially get the key off the stem. Opening the switch after that is relatively easy.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: kyamei on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:09:51: Quote from: wellington1869;113493
ripster, where is that pic from? I've never seen anything like that happen with all my alps modding or anyone elses on this site. Alps keys and switches have a reputation for toughness if anything. It looks like someone indiscriminantly and abruptly yanked the key upwards there. I'd like to see what that'd do to any other switch too.

That pic was mine. I was using the Hoolean wire keypuller. That cap just seemed to be tighter than the rest.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:13:33: Quote from: kyamei;113496
That pic was mine. I was using the Hoolean wire keypuller. That cap just seemed to be tighter than the rest.

lol, good god man! I cant imagine, I know they're tight but jesus. Did you solder it back in?

I dont know what other people do, but even with the hoolean I rest my wrist on the keyboard while pulling the hoolean with my fist, so that I can apply pressure slowly and when the key "gives" I can stop my arm motion quickly.

Ripster, I got to hand it to you. With the plethora of happy alps pics all over this site, you're somehow able to find the handful of disasters and put them together and really scare off people from alps. Hmmmm.

Until your posts on this, the general reputation of alps on this site for the last year was that it was the easiest switch to work with and mod. After your posts in the last 48 hours, suddenly its being presented as a scary monster. Somethings not right. :)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: kyamei on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:15:29: The switch was busted, you can see part of the contact ripped straight out of the switch. I ended up stealing a switch from one of the boards I had laying around for parts. Switch is a bit different (white XM without click leaf), but I never use right CTRL anyways.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: kyamei on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:34:12: Quote from: ripster;113501
I didn't mean to pick on Kyamei in any way - "Fukka Just Happens"

Don't worry, I didn't take it that way. I personally thought it was hilarious when it happened.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:39:17: :-D lets see, in the last couple of days ripster has presented: "dirty" alps, "broken" alps, reassembly "nightmares", fake/real "controversies", accusations that its all a marketing coup, claims that the m1 had always been hated...

:) Just sayin' :) Patterns in the chaos?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:49:55: As I like to say; some people just like to stir the sh*t pot.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:51:35: Quote from: wellington1869;113503
Patterns in the chaos?

now that's just good journalism

enquiring minds want to know ;D
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:52:02: So, the real question remains: Is this worth the $40?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: talis on Mon, 31 August 2009, 18:55:37: looks like the right side solder joint was weak or missing (by the fact that it looks like it just pulled straight out of the solder), probably put all of the upward force on the left side instead of dividing it between them.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: rdh on Mon, 31 August 2009, 19:20:46: Quote from: wellington1869;113216
So for $40 basically you could pick up a fukka modding board.

Am I the only one who automatically rearranged that phrase to "a modda fukking board"?

(Sorry, sorry.)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 19:31:08: whoever in marketing came up with the 'fukka' name is probably going to get a big fat bonus check at the end of the quarter. fukken a
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 31 August 2009, 19:32:29: Quote from: timw4mail;113508
So, the real question remains: Is this worth the $40?

for 40 dollars with free shipping? and you like alps-like switches?

I would score one straightaway if it was tenless.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:23:54: Quote from: rdh;113517
Am I the only one who automatically rearranged that phrase to "a modda fukking board"?

(Sorry, sorry.)

ahahahaha thats brilliant :-D I guess thats what i'll have to call it from now on.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: erricrice on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:26:16: Quote from: timw4mail;113508
So, the real question remains: Is this worth the $40?

I got one myself, and if it weren't for the fact that the tactile bump is very close to the top of the switch, I would love it. Still use it as my work keyboard though, little less annoying than anything with Blue Cherries(although strangely a bit louder haha)
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:28:39: Quote from: ripster;113522
Tim, since you like the clicky 60g Model F AT I'd try the Filco Zero first - looks like it's about 60g if Majestouch's nickel test was right and it should be plenty clicky.

The ABS M1 is probably fine if you don't plan to use it for gaming (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=100495&postcount=66) or if you are just looking to pull all the switches out of it as a donor board. In fact, it looks like you can pull the switches out without a soldering iron. :biggrin1:

Hey, gotta pick on some keyboard manufacturer. Metadot wouldn't give me the RMA number unless I promised to stop ragging on the Das.

But you forget one important fact: I'm cheap. That's why I have the Scorpius M10 over the Filco, and why I'd do the ABS M1 over the Filco Zero.

Quote from: bigpook;113523
for 40 dollars with free shipping? and you like alps-like switches?

I would score one straightaway if it was tenless.

I'm not sure if I do like ALPS switches...I've almost got all the main categories of Cherry MX switch, though...

There was a colorful keyboard (I think it had some kind of ALPS, clicky and tactile) that I had for my Mac at one point, if I could find the kind of switch that was, perhaps I'd be interested.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:29:23: Quote from: erricrice;113530
I got one myself, and if it weren't for the fact that the tactile bump is very close to the top of the switch, I would love it. Still use it as my work keyboard though, little less annoying than anything with Blue Cherries(although strangely a bit louder haha)

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who finds that the tactile bump is closer to the top of each key. The Dell AT101W tactile bump is the same regardless of where I press on the key.

It's also true that the M1 is louder than blue cherries, but yet more acceptable in an office environment.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:30:33: Quote from: timw4mail;113508
So, the real question remains: Is this worth the $40?
...and why I'd do the ABS M1 over the Filco Zero.

m1 and zero - their fukkas are a bit different though.

thing is you have to remember the M1 is black fukkas (ie, clickless but tactile). Generally its the white fukkas that used to get more attention (click plus tactile). Zero is white fukkas. Personally I prefer the white fukkas. But if you want a clickless board (tho its plenty loud with its topping/bottoming clack) or if you like black alps in general then you might prefer the black fukkas. But I just wanted to point out the difference. The filco tenkeyless that pook got was white fukkas; so was cmr's tp2. Its prolly one of those two i'm going to get.

Also of course as has been said before, this board would be great for instance if you're looking for, er, black modda fukkas.

Or you could be like pook and get both white and black fukkas and put them on your desk side by side ebony and ivory on my piano keyboard living in perfect harmony so why cant we? :-D

> type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">[/youtube]

SO pook will have a utopian experiment in racial, er, alps key harmony on his desk. And if the last two days have shown anything, we need that kind of shining example now more than ever! :-D
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:34:48: Quote from: timw4mail;113508
So, the real question remains: Is this worth the $40?

$40 plus shipping I think is a good deal. Things to remember is:

- It's a fairly loud keyboard. If you plan to use it in an environement where noise is a big problem...
- The space bar will like squeak, but this can be fixed with a little silicone grease/oil.

Keep in mind that it's easier to remove the space bar if you open the case. But doing so will void the warranty. Then again, at $40 this should not be too big of a deal.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:43:28: Aha...here's the old keyboard:
http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_lbb.html

Anybody know what the old white version had for switches?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: erricrice on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:52:32: Quote from: timw4mail;113538
Aha...here's the old keyboard:
http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_lbb.html

Anybody know what the old white version had for switches?

Hmm, well the datasheet says 50 Million cycles, so that points to Cherries, and it says gold plated contacts, which I believe I have seen for some Cherries at some point, I can't remember where though. Maybe Blues since it's clicky! Although it is an old keyboard....

EDIT:

Wait a second. Someone says they're buckling springs at the bottom of this (http://boundup.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/in-answer-to-a-comment/) page, but is then promptly corrected by none other than xsphat! He says they're ALPS switches so if they're clicky they are one of the white/blue/cream colored variants.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: timw4mail on Mon, 31 August 2009, 20:55:16: Quote from: erricrice;113539
Hmm, well the datasheet says 50 Million cycles, so that points to Cherries, and it says gold plated contacts, which I believe I have seen for some Cherries at some point, I can't remember where though. Maybe Blues since it's clicky!

I'm 99% sure that the old keyboard definitely wasn't Cherry switches. They required more force than the blues, and were lower-pitched.

If only I could find that stupid keyboard...I probably got rid of it at some point...
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 22:14:34: Quote from: timw4mail;113541
I'm 99% sure that the old keyboard definitely wasn't Cherry switches. They required more force than the blues, and were lower-pitched.

If only I could find that stupid keyboard...I probably got rid of it at some point...

those are v. pretty boards.
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: Stevie Wonder on Mon, 31 August 2009, 22:22:57: Racial harmony my ass. Where's my royalties?
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: msiegel on Mon, 31 August 2009, 22:36:23: i knew it!

it was only a matter of time :D
Title: ABS M1 $40 shipped at Newegg
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 31 August 2009, 22:48:29: Quote from: Stevie Wonder;113558
Racial harmony my ass. Where's my royalties?

lol!