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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: jacobolus on Sat, 07 March 2015, 21:46:49
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At the Bay Area meetup today, HaaTa put together a full 60% keyboard with Matias quiet linear (red) switches, and then several of us directly compared Gateron red vs. Cherry MX red vs. Matias red switches, loose.
First, a Matias switch keyboard is really quiet, since it has the little rubber dampers in it (same as the Matias quiet tactile switch).
Second, while the Gateron switch is definitely noticeably smoother (i.e. less frictiony) than the MX switch, the Matias switch trounces both of them. Much smoother than any unlubed Cherry MX or MX clone switch I’ve ever tried, and I’d guess pretty comparable to lubed MX switches (though we didn’t have any handy to compare against, so I’m speculating a bit), or to white space invaders or complicated green Alps (but we also didn’t have any of those to compare with).
The switch weight seems slightly heavier than MX red (putting it closer to my preference for linear switches), though without a full assembled MX red keyboard to compare against directly (only the loose switches) it was a bit hard to judge. The Matias keyboard also wasn’t plugged into anything, so I’m not precisely sure at what point in the stroke the switch actuates. I’m guessing it’s slightly closer to the top than MX switches.
I hope HaaTa (maybe with some help) can get a better force curve gauge built sometime soon, because I’d love to see precise graphical comparisons between these and MX switches. I’m not sure if there’s any good way to precisely (numerically) characterize how frictiony a switch is, but that would also be handy.
Anyway, I think the video game players out there who appreciate linear switches are going to be thrilled with these. Considering how much people have been hyping Gaterons the last couple months, Matias linear switches might blow some minds.
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Is it better than Linear Greens though? I have a hard time with anything near MX Red weights.
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Just judging by my memory, I’d say it’s as smooth or smoother than green SKCL Alps switches, and a bit less stiff. Also a bit wobblier, in the same way all Matias switches are compared to all SKCL/SKCM switches.
The switch weight isn’t quite perfect for me personally: green Alps is close to ideally weighted for me among linear switches. (Though I don’t myself use linear switches for anything, so maybe my opinion doesn’t mean much.) For linear switches everyone seems to have a slightly different preference for stiffness, so some folks might appreciate swapping the springs with some other Alps switch. Fans of MX red are going to really dig these though I suspect.
(I’m hoping sometime we can find a vendor to make a bunch of aftermarket Alps-compatible springs in 3–4 different stiffnesses at each of 2–3 different spring lengths, and then convince MassDrop to run a “drop” for those, since I don’t have any personal desire to coordinate group buy logistics/distribution. Maybe we could even ask Matias if they could put us in touch with whoever makes springs for them. The clicky and tactile Matias switches, and various old Alps switches, are a bit too stiff for my taste, so some alternate springs would be nice.)
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I was PMing Matias about the springs, but the response was....less than satisfactory. I want to do an Alps springs GB in the future, but need to figure out where I can get some made first.
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Anyway, I think the video game players out there who appreciate linear switches are going to be thrilled with these.
I'm not sure game players are the only ones who like linear switches. Quite a number non-gaming folk are perfectly happy with linear switches; many who see the "bump" as an unnecessary nuisance.
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I'm not sure game players are the only ones who like linear switches. Quite a number non-gaming folk are perfectly happy with linear switches; many who see the "bump" as an unnecessary nuisance.
Definitely they aren’t the only ones. They seem to me to be overrepresented among linear switch fans, but maybe that’s only my perception.
Other fans of MX reds (or “Korean” 62g or lighter MX linear switches) are also going to like these. Fans of stiffer linear switches might prefer a slightly stiffer spring swapped in.
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Hopefully the actuation won't be as high as this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TRRn0G7TPU) guys Ducky XM Black Alps:
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Anyway, I think the video game players out there who appreciate linear switches are going to be thrilled with these.
Actually I like bumpy switches.
I mainly play rhythm games tho, that may have something to do with that.
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Damn it just when I thought I'll stop buying MX/Alps since I'm switching over to Topre, then this happens.
Now I want a board with Matias linear switch. :(
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Anyway, I think the video game players out there who appreciate linear switches are going to be thrilled with these. Considering how much people have been hyping Gaterons the last couple months, Matias linear switches might blow some minds.
Bold claim.
I wonder if the switch life is longer than than the other Matias switches, similar to how MX Reds have the claim of a longer switch life than tactile or clicky MX switches.
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Haata, send me some samples!!
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One other note: I’ve always thought Matias quiet/clicky switches were just slightly too stiff for my preference. Well, these linear switches have a slightly lighter spring.
I find these linear switches, similar to MX red, a bit too light for my taste.
So I tried swapping the springs from a clicky and a linear switch. Both are improved IMO; after the swap they’re both pretty close to my preferred stiffness. I haven’t measured, I haven’t put either type of altered switch in a full keyboard, and I can’t compare them directly, but If I had to guess, based on other people’s keyboards I’ve tried before, I’d say the linear switch with the clicky spring is probably about similar to a linear MX switch with a “62g Korean” spring. Still a bit lighter than green Alps after the swap, but not all that far off (5–10g?).
edit: Apparently the Matias quiet tactile and linear switches have the same spring: the quiet tactile switch and clicky switch use different springs, which were chosen such that they overall feel the same. In other words, the tactile leaf provides a bit more resistance than the click leaf. So, for people who want a lighter clicky switch, you could also get the spring from a tactile switch.
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I'm very strongly considering getting another infinity with matias linear switches after reading your review/post
Yet keycaps are a huge issue, is there any source for matias keycaps?
It would have been great if there were at least SP PBT blanks with different colors
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At the moment just black blanks from MassDrop.
Hopefully the next version of the Infinity keyboard will have a different type of stabilizer clips/inserts/wires that will support both MX and Alps-style stabilizers, which would let people source keycaps from any old Alps board, instead of only ones that use MX-style stabilizers.
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I also have the impression that we will see many keyboards from haata in the future, so better get a matias in a future generation
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Which is smoother, Matias linear or Tope?