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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 00:28:05

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 00:28:05

This is a general question for anyone with a Filco keyboard.  Relatively speaking, how big are the bumps on the F & J keys?  For reference, I find the bumps on the Model M to be very slight, but find the bumps on the MX11800 and Ione Scorpius M10 to be very pronounced.  The bumps on the AT101W are pratically non-existant.

How do the bumps on a Filco keyboard compare?  I really like the pronounced bumps on the M10 and the MX11800, but the very slight bumps on the M and the AT101W bother me.

I want to know about this before I would purchase a Filco.  I know it sounds picky, but aren't many topics on geekhack? :laugh:

Thanks

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: kyamei on Wed, 02 September 2009, 00:38:48

I'd say its about the same as the M10, but positioned lower on the cap.  Of course, my opinion probably doesn't count since I think the AT101W is more pronounced than the M10.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: shortround on Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:04:21

I'd like to know myself.  I hope it's safe to assume they're more pronounced than my das III knobbies, these things are like Paris Hilton's brain - they're pretty much nonexistent.  

I think it's a good question though.  Good, easy to find home key knobs make for a much better typing experience.  I'll be checking back as well to hear what the Filco users say.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:39:46

Quote from: kyamei;113874

I'd say its about the same as the M10, but positioned lower on the cap.  Of course, my opinion probably doesn't count since I think the AT101W is more pronounced than the M10.

Really?  On my AT101W, the bumps are much narrower (about half as wide) as the bumps on my M10.  They don't seem to be as tall as the bumps on my M10, either.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: watduzhkstand4 on Wed, 02 September 2009, 01:56:12

I think the size feels very similar to the HHKB Pro 2.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: kyamei on Wed, 02 September 2009, 02:08:54

Quote from: Special K;113886

Really?  On my AT101W, the bumps are much narrower (about half as wide) as the bumps on my M10.  They don't seem to be as tall as the bumps on my M10, either.

I find the AT101W to be narrower, but equally tall, if not taller than the M10.  The bumps on the AT101W feel as if they are pointy (it's not, but feels that way) which makes it more pronounced to me.  

The Filco is a bit sharper than the M10, by that I mean the line isn't as bold as the M10 but is equally tall and wide.  To me, the sharper bumps are easier to feel.  

*estimations on size comparisons are just estimations.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 02:19:30

Quote from: watduzhkstand4;113888

I think the size feels very similar to the HHKB Pro 2.

I've never used an HHKB Pro 2.  Have you used any of the keyboards mentioned in my OP?  If so, could you compare the Filco to one of them?

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: takasta on Wed, 02 September 2009, 02:48:03

i don't hitnk they're that big of a problem. I never actually looked at them in particular before other than when you asked that question haha. Once you get to typing on the keyboard, you don't really feel it.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 02 September 2009, 08:23:04

I think they are all equally good/worthless.  The best ones I have ever used were on the Compaq MX-11800.  They had "dots" (similar to what many companies use on the 5 key on the numpad) dead center on the F anf J keys.  There was no way not to notice those.  The scooped keys on Cherrys are my least favorite.
 
To more directly address the question, I find the AT101W bumps to be more pronounced than the Filco.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 02 September 2009, 09:16:29

They are all bloody useless if you want to find the home keys as opposed to confirming you are already there.

I gave in and bought these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270439329653), 1.57mm high x 6.35mm diameter self-adhesive clear rubber feet.

I think they are the perfect size. They feel very intrusive at first, but once you get used to them they feel great.

Shown here on my dirty DAS:

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 10:51:38

Quote from: ripster;113943

The Dell AT101W definitely has the most nubile nubs I've ever seen. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6924&do=comments&page=3)


I'd take a picture of the Filco but they only have nubs, not bumps.

I guess I need to get my AT101W out again, because when I looked at it yesterday I didn't think its bumps were nearly as pronounced as my M10 or MX11800.

Also that article you linked to doesn't mention the AT101W anywhere in it.  Did I miss something or did you mean to link to something different?

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 10:52:28

Quote from: itlnstln;113913

I think they are all equally good/worthless.  The best ones I have ever used were on the Compaq MX-11800.  They had "dots" (similar to what many companies use on the 5 key on the numpad) dead center on the F anf J keys.  There was no way not to notice those.  The scooped keys on Cherrys are my least favorite.
 
To more directly address the question, I find the AT101W bumps to be more pronounced than the Filco.

Interesting, my MX11800 has raised lines on the F and J keys, not dots.  Maybe different board revisions use different markings on F and J?

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 11:19:10

Quote from: ripster;113943

The Dell AT101W definitely has the most nubile nubs I've ever seen. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6924&do=comments&page=3)


I'd take a picture of the Filco but they only have nubs, not bumps.

What's the difference between a nub and a bump?  Would the ones on the Filco not show up in a picture?

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 11:32:22

Quote from: ripster;113964

No difference.  I just prefer the term "nub" just so people don't get confused with the molding defect on the back of keys.

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4234&stc=1&d=1251908929)

I'll do a "nub roundup" in the key wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Keys) sometime today and show the differences.

Can you take a picture of the Filco nubs that shows how they compare to the AT101W pic you just posted?

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 02 September 2009, 12:30:14

Quote from: Special K;113956

Interesting, my MX11800 has raised lines on the F and J keys, not dots. Maybe different board revisions use different markings on F and J?

I think I had an older one.  Does yours have the Windows keys.  I don't thik mine did.  Rdjack21 would be able to tell you; I sold it to him.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 12:31:31

Quote from: itlnstln;113981

I think I had an older one.  Does yours have the Windows keys.  I don't thik mine did.  Rdjack21 would be able to tell you; I sold it to him.

Mine doesn't have windows keys.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 02 September 2009, 12:36:04

Quote from: Special K;113983

Mine doesn't have windows keys.

I know there were several revisions.  One indicator was a warning label by the lock lights (which mine had), but I can't remember the others.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Wed, 02 September 2009, 23:56:07

Quote from: kyamei;113890

I find the AT101W to be narrower, but equally tall, if not taller than the M10.  The bumps on the AT101W feel as if they are pointy (it's not, but feels that way) which makes it more pronounced to me.  

The Filco is a bit sharper than the M10, by that I mean the line isn't as bold as the M10 but is equally tall and wide.  To me, the sharper bumps are easier to feel.  

*estimations on size comparisons are just estimations.

What do you mean the line "isn't as bold"?  What does bold mean in this context, especially if you say it's equally tall and wide as the M10?

In any case, if it's comparable to the M10, then it's probably good enough for my typing style.  I just like to have fairly pronounced bumps, and so far I like the M10 and MX-11800 best in this regard.

Here's one close up pic I found on google image search that shows the bumps on a Filco:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4248&stc=1&d=1251953752)

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Thu, 03 September 2009, 00:42:04

Quote from: ripster;114284

I think I came up with a way of illustrating the differences in the nubs.  I dub it the "NubOmeter".

IBM Model M - long and low

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4249&stc=1&d=1251955791)

Dell AT101W - short and more in the center of the key

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4250&stc=1&d=1251955847)

Filco - short and high

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4251&stc=1&d=1251955916)

The Dell feels higher but I think that's just because it is more in the center of the key (see pic above).

If you don't mind the Model M nubs the Filco's should be fine.

Now the Cherry Corp boards....what happened to my nubs!

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4252&stc=1&d=1251956085)

Excellent pics ripster, thanks.

If I had a key puller I'd take one of my M10 to add to a wiki of nub sizes :lol:

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Hak Foo on Thu, 03 September 2009, 01:15:14

FWIW, the Unicomp caps seem to have a narrower nub.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: kyamei on Thu, 03 September 2009, 02:08:22

Quote from: Special K;114274

What do you mean the line "isn't as bold"?  What does bold mean in this context, especially if you say it's equally tall and wide as the M10?

If tall is the height of the bump off the key, width is how long the line is, bold referred to how "thick" the line was.

Title: How big are the bumps on the F & J keys of a Filco keyboard (relatively speaking)?
Post by: Special K on Thu, 03 September 2009, 02:15:13

Quote from: kyamei;114307

If tall is the height of the bump off the key, width is how long the line is, bold referred to how "thick" the line was.

Ah, OK.  That makes sense.